Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #41

[Hudsunn]

When a killer says, I do not know where she is, the killer is telling the truth in a way.  If Casey put Caylee in a dumpster, she does not know for sure whether the body ended up in a landfill or an incinerator.  Or she might just be saying that she does not know where Caylee is NOW, as in, probably in Heaven but who knows for sure.  Liars can always justify the lie. 

[m2kfl]

The gas sample that tested positive to chloroform came from the smelly trunk of the car if I remember correctly.  That gas sample also contained other gaseous substances, including the ones responsible for the smell.  The pattern of the other gaseous products help pin point decomposition from a human body.  I am an experienced chemist with forensic history. I like to clarify what has appeared in the press, which I know by experience comes out oddly at times, and uses the vernacular of the lay public. 

Another interesting product of "pure" chloroform is the deadly war gas phosgene COCl2.  I indeed have run into this when opening a virgin lab bottle of chloroform.  A photochemical reaction takes place where light breaks chloroform down to phosgene and hydrochloric acid.  In labs usually a little ethanol is added to the chloroform to attempt to stablize it, but even that does not always work.    So the chloroform in Casey's trunk may have been accompanied by phosgene.  Depends upon if the phosgene has gone on further to react with say the upholstery.

So any stablized chloroform would also contain some ethanol.  If unstablized, then contains hydrochloric acid and phosgene in virgin bottles.  That is unless the chloroform has been stored in ideal conditions in the cold and tightly sealed. 

http://www.bath.ac.uk/internal/bio-sci/bbsafe/chloroform.htm

uuuhhh....huh?  lol

You lost me after "The gas sample"

Chloroform is a highly reactive solvent, and produces in its own container bad stuff like the deadly war gas phosgene.  It's impossible to have "pure" chloroform, but it is possible to have high concentrations as in Casey's trunk.   In the gas sample from that car there were many substances in addition to chloroform, mostly from the decomposition.

I hve to disagree, from all the research I've done on Elsevier and Science direct, there is pure chloroform~CHCl3 (Chloroform, pure); it has a definitively different chemical structure than by products.

I would gather that the gas chromatagraph and similar measuring instrument would be able to detect any of the above mentioned chemicals and separate the percentage of the content from the chloroform it'self. I am also wondering if the chemical make up of the gas that remained in the truck is affected by being in a hot trunk for several weeks or if it's atomic structure remains stable.

MURT

[always 1]

When a killer says, I do not know where she is, the killer is telling the truth in a way.  If Casey put Caylee in a dumpster, she does not know for sure whether the body ended up in a landfill or an incinerator.  Or she might just be saying that she does not know where Caylee is NOW, as in, probably in Heaven but who knows for sure.  Liars can always justify the lie. 

Amen, sister.

[Wyks]

I remember seeing the pictures in the backyard, and there were yellow flags and red flags. Could each one of those colors represent a different dog?

Hate to quote myself, but does anybody know the answer to this?

hmmmmm... i dunno... but it's a great question!  hope someone has an answer. 

[Brandi]

When a killer says, I do not know where she is, the killer is telling the truth in a way.  If Casey put Caylee in a dumpster, she does not know for sure whether the body ended up in a landfill or an incinerator.  Or she might just be saying that she does not know where Caylee is NOW, as in, probably in Heaven but who knows for sure.  Liars can always justify the lie. 

Yes, and Casey has a habit of telling just a little truth in each lie, I believe.

Finding those truths is the difficult part.  LOL

[heykim]

According to Cindy, George and Lee that Car stunk pretty darn bad
I wonder what that Car smells like now
Jose won motion to test car when Dr Kobie gets that trunk open do anyone know
Does that Small go away? or is Dr Kobie gonna get that horrid wave of smell also?

According to Kathi Belich WFTV, as of a week or so ago, the car still smelled bad.

WOW  that tells me it was pretty darn strong..
We wont know until trial what Dr Kobie has to say about it
But he is no dummy he will know that smell

I may be wrong, but I believe I was once told that once that smell is in a car, it impregnates everything including the metal and there is no getting rid of it.

I remember a segment of mythbusters where they placed a pig in a corvette to determine something that had to do with a dead body being in a car.

At the end of the test, they tried to get rid of the odor which was so bad, they had to wear enviromental suits when working around it. They were never able to get rid of the odor and wound up selling the car to a scrap yard.

MURT

amd that was one HUGE WASTE of a corvette..

sorry... i know... HUGE WASTE of that HUGE WASTE remark..


i want a TSHIRT that says HUGE WASTE... (please dont have the writing near MY waist tho...)

[always 1]

According to Cindy, George and Lee that Car stunk pretty darn bad
I wonder what that Car smells like now
Jose won motion to test car when Dr Kobie gets that trunk open do anyone know
Does that Small go away? or is Dr Kobie gonna get that horrid wave of smell also?

According to Kathi Belich WFTV, as of a week or so ago, the car still smelled bad.

WOW  that tells me it was pretty darn strong..
We wont know until trial what Dr Kobie has to say about it
But he is no dummy he will know that smell

I may be wrong, but I believe I was once told that once that smell is in a car, it impregnates everything including the metal and there is no getting rid of it.

I remember a segment of mythbusters where they placed a pig in a corvette to determine something that had to do with a dead body being in a car.

At the end of the test, they tried to get rid of the odor which was so bad, they had to wear enviromental suits when working around it. They were never able to get rid of the odor and wound up selling the car to a scrap yard.

MURT

amd that was one HUGE WASTE of a corvette..

sorry... i know... HUGE WASTE of that HUGE WASTE remark..


i want a TSHIRT that says HUGE WASTE... (please dont have the writing near MY waist tho...)

Good one - Hahahahahahahahahahaha

[Bud's Girl]

that's because you aren't a sociopath...Casey is.

Its not the same for us.  She doesn't HAVE emotions...they just aren't there.  Its the gratification for here and now. 

I believe a jury will hold this against her, though....and I'm happy about that.  But as a psychology major I understand a bit more about what to expect and not expect from a sociopath.

do you know -- are sociopaths born the way they are, or do they become that way from the way they are raised ?

[IMissThirdGrade]

without ANY evidence to show that casey was in SOME manner DEVASTATED at the time of caylee going missing... SOME evidence that she was DEVASTATED.... i cannot buy the ACCIDENT theory..


if by ACCIDENT my child was killed... there is NO way... no SHAPE ..no FORM that I could go on dancing and shopping and GIVING THAT S*IT EATING SMILE .....


naw.. t'warnt no accident..








no way

that's because you aren't a sociopath...Casey is.

Its not the same for us.  She doesn't HAVE emotions...they just aren't there.  Its the gratification for here and now. 

I believe a jury will hold this against her, though....and I'm happy about that.  But as a psychology major I understand a bit more about what to expect and not expect from a sociopath.

hmmmm welll i havent been DIAGNOSED as a sociopath... but the jury is still out..*L*

naw.. i realize she can smile and have fun even IF her daughter is dead by accident or by A DELIBERATE ACT, but what i DONT believe is that it  WAS an accident,,,,


the jury is still out on THAT as well..

Let me perhaps be a bit more clear on my thoughts of "accident".  I don't believe she planned this....not for any amount of time, let's say.  Because an "accidental drowning" is really quite easy to pull off, wouldn't you say?  Dunk the kid under the water then call 911.  Even a kindergartener could think that one up.

Now, even the scenario I painted I think requires jail time...neglect is neglect. 

If we find some evidence presented as "premeditation", won't necessarily mean that's exactly what it was....it could be the state attorneys 'cards', if you will.  They pressure her to plea out or something.

Here's the deal...the chick is so incredibly flawed and "wicked" in the eyes of all NON-sociopaths, I don't think there'd be any hesitation in convicting of her Murder 1.  Her attorney, if he's any dang good, will tell her this and recommend they look for pleading this one out.

[heykim]

When a killer says, I do not know where she is, the killer is telling the truth in a way.  If Casey put Caylee in a dumpster, she does not know for sure whether the body ended up in a landfill or an incinerator.  Or she might just be saying that she does not know where Caylee is NOW, as in, probably in Heaven but who knows for sure.  Liars can always justify the lie. 

yep,,, i ABSOLUTELY think that is the case...
whether she had someone ELSE do the disposal..or whether she realizes that NOW she doesnt know where her baby girl is.... i believe THAT is what she meant by " i dont KNOW where caylee is"

[Altruist]

jr wrote:

According to Kathi Belich WFTV, as of a week or so ago, the car still smelled bad.

think that the Prosecutor would have the Jury visit the car?  would the odor maintain the strength of putridness?

jr wrote:

I may be wrong, but I believe I was once told that once that smell is in a car, it impregnates everything including the metal and there is no getting rid of it.

would definitely think that would be the case if the part is fiberglass, don't understand if that is possible with metal, maybe staze knows?

imiss3rdgrade wrote:

I do think about the dogs, myself...but not sure.  Do the dogs go outside?

it was written awhile ago that the dogs had a separate area that they were let out that they weren't allowed in the area Caylee played in.  also had been inferred that the dogs had not been seen at the Hopespring address, does anybody know?

heykim wrote:

of course , since cindy and geo did their OWN investigating in the backyard... maybe it was BECAUSE of the dogs goin nuts back there...

I think many actions taken by GA & CA were taken to fool OCSO that they were co-operative.  Like washing the pinstriped pants & telling of this, to me means pants were never in car, like moving the playhouse to see if Caylee was buried in the backyard, like calling 911, the gas cans being reported stolen, there are more

Wkys wrote:

Just want to mention... remember during the first bond hearing, (i believe it was), Cindy made a statement to the effect of, 'there is no evidence'.  When she said that, she was looking straight at Casey.  My take on that is she was assuring Casey that whatever evidence there had been, had been taken care of.  Am sure hoping that LE is paying attention to all these little bits of info which can really add up to quite a big picture.

you are joined by others in your observation, another clue that there is complicity present in the family member murder lottery MOTIVE for reporting, CA is communicating with KC to keep her trap shut she will get her out & their plan can proceed

[San]

Was it June 18th when Casey borrowed the shovel?  Did Cindy say she got it to chop bamboo?  Why would she return home just to chop bamboo?

Has any of our talented monkeys that are mapping cell tower pings .. checked to see if her "home tower" was used after June 16th.  Like she was at the house making calls ?

A lot a ?'s I know... sorry 

I believe it was the neighbor who said Casey said she wanted to cut up some bamboo that she kept tripping on..............

Cindy told that story.... I believe in the Greta interview in the back yard..

Here is the part about the cadaver dogs from Greta.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/08/15/cadaver-dogs-in-jailed-casey-anthonys-backyard/comment-page-2/

[littleone]

Does anyone know if TES is searching for Caylee today? Is it true that Tim Miller had a five hour meeting Friday with the Anthony's and their attorney? Thanks!

[IMissThirdGrade]

that's because you aren't a sociopath...Casey is.

Its not the same for us.  She doesn't HAVE emotions...they just aren't there.  Its the gratification for here and now. 

I believe a jury will hold this against her, though....and I'm happy about that.  But as a psychology major I understand a bit more about what to expect and not expect from a sociopath.

do you know -- are sociopaths born the way they are, or do they become that way from the way they are raised ?

I believe they are predisposed to becoming one (in a genetic sense).  Also, her environment was extremely furtile ground for severe arrogance.  Have you ever studied 'brain elasticity'?

Look it up one night...its fascinating.  Casey's brain elasticity is already SET in stone, so to speak.  She won't ever change.  There is no cure, hence my wanting her in prison for life. 

[heykim]

just a random thought...

how much more blogging will it take about this case, before it is CASEY ANTHONYs name that comes up, when anyone punches the word WASTE into google...

[San]

Sorry Cubbee I quoted off your post by accident.

Someone was asking about the Cadaver dogs.

Here is the part about the cadaver dogs from Greta.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/08/15/cadaver-dogs-in-jailed-casey-anthonys-backyard/comment-page-2/

[Altruist]

I was working on the assumption that the dogs are very sensitive to the unique chemical changes that takes place upon death. If a cadaver dog can smell death underwater, their smell is going to be sensitive enough to smell the remains no matter how brief they were at a location. The smells would certainly not be detectable to humans which would explain why nobody smelled anything in the back yard.

MURT

just guessing here but I have always believed that it is the gasses from the body that the cadaver dog is detecting, would be great if anybody knows

[Wyks]

If Caylee is left in the back yard sand box or play house  I fould have thougth the family dog  would have a fit.. trying to find Caylee.
Thoughts on this ?

Maybe it did and thats why she was moved, however it would take a desperate and crazy person to bury their own child in their parents back yard.
But then again with this story anything is possible.

maybe caylee died somewhere else and casey attempted to bury her in her parents backyard to frame them for the death?  heck, i dunno.   

[mytime]

Murt - It looks like your are hooked!!! 

[strayze]

The gas sample that tested positive to chloroform came from the smelly trunk of the car if I remember correctly.  That gas sample also contained other gaseous substances, including the ones responsible for the smell.  The pattern of the other gaseous products help pin point decomposition from a human body.  I am an experienced chemist with forensic history. I like to clarify what has appeared in the press, which I know by experience comes out oddly at times, and uses the vernacular of the lay public. 

Another interesting product of "pure" chloroform is the deadly war gas phosgene COCl2.  I indeed have run into this when opening a virgin lab bottle of chloroform.  A photochemical reaction takes place where light breaks chloroform down to phosgene and hydrochloric acid.  In labs usually a little ethanol is added to the chloroform to attempt to stablize it, but even that does not always work.    So the chloroform in Casey's trunk may have been accompanied by phosgene.  Depends upon if the phosgene has gone on further to react with say the upholstery.

So any stablized chloroform would also contain some ethanol.  If unstablized, then contains hydrochloric acid and phosgene in virgin bottles.  That is unless the chloroform has been stored in ideal conditions in the cold and tightly sealed. 

http://www.bath.ac.uk/internal/bio-sci/bbsafe/chloroform.htm

uuuhhh....huh?  lol

You lost me after "The gas sample"

Chloroform is a highly reactive solvent, and produces in its own container bad stuff like the deadly war gas phosgene.  It's impossible to have "pure" chloroform, but it is possible to have high concentrations as in Casey's trunk.   In the gas sample from that car there were many substances in addition to chloroform, mostly from the decomposition.

I hve to disagree, from all the research I've done on Elsevier and Science direct, there is pure chloroform~CHCl3 (Chloroform, pure); it has a definitively different chemical structure than by products.

This is my experience as a professional chemist.  I have worked extensively with chloroform and other solvents.  The solvent can produce bad stuff just sitting on the shelf.  It can also remain in relatively pure form, esp if a little ethanol added to stablize it.  I have put chloroform samples on the gas chromatograph to monitor the contents.  If too much other substances in it, I have had to redistill it and monitor again.  I am not making this up.

I have also opened virgin bottles to find lots of phosgene with its very charactistic odor.  Best to open unknown bottles in the hood so as to lessen phosgene (a war gas) exposure. 

Whenever something arrives at the lab, its purity must be checked.  Usually, to be useful, one does not want a lot of phosgene in the chloroform.  It's a natural breakdown product.  Most chemists purify their solvents before use if the purpose of the solvent will be altered by the presence of impurities.  The label on the bottle lists the confidence levels of various concentrations of impurities. 

To a chemist, purity is a relative term, as it has a variety of dimensions