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Author Topic: Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #49  (Read 381549 times)
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SS
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« Reply #1340 on: October 24, 2008, 07:37:48 PM »




A contemporary example of inbreeding is evident with the Amish in Pennsylvania.  The Amish have intermarried for many generations because of the limited numbers in their religious group.  At this point, many Amish women frequently miscarry and the children frequently die from various disorders as infants and children.  The Amish have a very high infant mortality rate. One disorder that is found in the Amish population is known as Maple Sugar Urine Syndrome.  It is a recessive genetic metabolic disorder that has emerged as dominant genetic after years of intermarriage.  The infant is born normal, but soon shows signs of a brownish urine.  Most of these MSUS children die in infancy, but those who do live longer face severe mental retardation.

WOW..interesting SS.....you are one smart monkey!!!



Thanks Sunny,

I just loved it when I was working on that particular degree.  It is so interesting.  Another contemporary example is Tay Sachs.  In simplistic terms, tay sachs was originally a mutation in the shape of blood cells.  The mutation spread through generations because ironically, the misshapened cells actually served to stop the spread of malaria.  So, many of the African people who survived the malaria outbreaks actually had the cell mutation and the malaria survivers passed the gene on to their children.  Many generations later, some people of African origin still carry the mutation as a recessive gene.  When two carriers produce a child who gets both of the recessive genes, the result is tay sachs which is also a terminal condition.

uummmmm interesting....something that did good (stopped malaria)....is now a killer if the recessive gene is carried by both parents.....and incurable totally???

Sorry but I think you have Sickle Cell Anemia and Tay Sachs confused. Tay Sachs is almost always found in those of Ashkenazi Jewish heritage.
Sickle cell anemia is found primarily in black people.


Yes WO, I did switch the two and I'm so sorry.  Sickle cell is the African genetic disorder that is a double edged sword - it blocks malaria, but kills the person.
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« Reply #1341 on: October 24, 2008, 07:43:24 PM »

Hi Monkeys.  I've spent the better part of the afternoon reading and catching up.  I think many are not aware of just how often sibling incest occurs.  It is the dark secret in many families.  It does occur FIVE times more often than other relational incest.  While birth defects are common in children born of incest, Caylee obviously did not suffer from this.  Not all children of incest have genetic mutations.  In fact, the MAJORITY are born perfectly normal.  However, genetic mutations occur with a greater frequency than in normal populations.  I posted some research on all this a few weeks ago, so if anyone is interested, you can search my posts. 

I think it is quite possible Lee is Caylee's father, as repulsive as that seems to us.  Other monkeys have posted the inconsistencies in the family's comments about paternity, the other indications that make many think this is the secret this family is protecting.

My concern is that Baez will use this as a defensive strategy, claiming Casey is a "victim" (as Cindy likes to remind us) of her brother's sexual assault.  This is really more of a concern to me than any insanity defense which would never fly in court.  I'm afraid a jury would be sympathetic to this woman if Baez attempts to show she was repeatedly sexually assaulted by her brother and "forced" to bear his child.  I have read some of the psychological research that indicates women can be the aggressors in sibling incest, but usually if the male is elder, this is not the case.  I really think this is a serious concern and what Baez was talking about when he said we would understand when they get a chance to tell their story.

Very interesting.  I remember reading your posts, but I couldn't remember who posted this info.
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« Reply #1342 on: October 24, 2008, 07:43:38 PM »

Good Lord monkeys,
  Could we please move forward? I do grow so weary with page after page of nothing but pure raw speculation.My friends here are all in a lather over post that don't mean a thing to anyone except to the poster that posted it...Please,this is about little Caylee and no matter if Lee is the father or not,Casey is the one in all probability that killed her and we should be about looking for justice,not devouring one another in the process.It just isn't helpful...

I think if Lee is the father, it is critical to the "why" in this sordid story.  There is never an excuse, but if true, this makes Casey a victim of sorts as her mom continues to say Casey is a victim as much as Caylee.  If she was abused, and she was forced to take responsibility for a child between Lee and her, then all of her behavior is given meaning.  This would explain why Cindy is so adamant on protecting her daughter.  She would feel guilty for all that she has done to Casey.  Caylee is the ultimate victim, but Casey was a victim of her brother.  Cindy would have no choice but to protect Casey, it protects Lee, and it protects the deep dark secret they might have all been hiding.
Makes sense to me Russ.I can't understand why some opinions are batted out of the cage if it offends some posters.



I agree Karma.  I think it is vitally important to identify Caylee's father.  This person has paternity rights.   Paternity could also be a significant motive in the murder of a child.  I have long felt that Lee is the father because of the hints that we have been given about Caylee's DNA, but most of all because of the things that haven't been said to deny that Lee is the father.  Jesse and his family have probably known since his paternity test that Caylee's father was related to Casey.  Remember, in a paternity test, both the mother and the father are required to produce DNA.  The DNA profiles of the parents are then compared to the child's DNA profile.  Lee and Casey wouldn't have identical DNA, but their markers would have a very high degree of similarity.  Jesse claimed that the paternity test gave a 99% chance that he was not the father.

I have a question?What makes you think that Jesse and his Father would know Caylee's Father is a relative?Why would they be privy to that kind of information?That makes no sense at all to me.The paternity test was to rule out Jesse,plain and simple.I do not believe for one second that Caylee's rights would be violated in such a way and if they were,a lawsuit could've and should've proceeded against the violater giving out the information.It's just my opinion but I don't think either one of the Grunds know squat except that Jesse is not the Father..
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« Reply #1343 on: October 24, 2008, 07:44:38 PM »

So the rumor of Casey driving around with the dead body in the trunk for eleven days is just not true.  I didn't see how she could have stood the smell after eleven days.


Me either Hudsunn......just didnt see that one...


That proves that what I said is true to those of you that don't believe what I said. Who told us that caylees body was in the car for 11 days? Proves my point and I am right.


Because this "point" of yours was not concussively yours....I'm assuming you meant that you...and others, who thought this as well.
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« Reply #1344 on: October 24, 2008, 07:45:00 PM »




A contemporary example of inbreeding is evident with the Amish in Pennsylvania.  The Amish have intermarried for many generations because of the limited numbers in their religious group.  At this point, many Amish women frequently miscarry and the children frequently die from various disorders as infants and children.  The Amish have a very high infant mortality rate. One disorder that is found in the Amish population is known as Maple Sugar Urine Syndrome.  It is a recessive genetic metabolic disorder that has emerged as dominant genetic after years of intermarriage.  The infant is born normal, but soon shows signs of a brownish urine.  Most of these MSUS children die in infancy, but those who do live longer face severe mental retardation.

WOW..interesting SS.....you are one smart monkey!!!



Thanks Sunny,

I just loved it when I was working on that particular degree.  It is so interesting.  Another contemporary example is Tay Sachs.  In simplistic terms, tay sachs was originally a mutation in the shape of blood cells.  The mutation spread through generations because ironically, the misshapened cells actually served to stop the spread of malaria.  So, many of the African people who survived the malaria outbreaks actually had the cell mutation and the malaria survivers passed the gene on to their children.  Many generations later, some people of African origin still carry the mutation as a recessive gene.  When two carriers produce a child who gets both of the recessive genes, the result is tay sachs which is also a terminal condition.

uummmmm interesting....something that did good (stopped malaria)....is now a killer if the recessive gene is carried by both parents.....and incurable totally???


Yes, Sunny. It's heartbreaking.  I am a guidance counselor and I have had several children with sickel cell anemia over the years.  It is so sad and the parents are so filled with guilt because of the genetic component, because they didn't realize that they were carriers of the recessive gene.  When two recessive genes are passed to a child, there is no dominant gene to take over and produce a healthy child.  It's the same thing with Fragile X Syndrome that is similar to autism.  I just thank God for advances in genetic counseling.
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« Reply #1345 on: October 24, 2008, 07:45:38 PM »

Hello All,

   Wonder if it's possible that Caylee's father is a prisioner and his DNA is on file.  That's the only other reasonable explanation I can think of for the A's not wanting him involved and LE having his DNA.  Maybe a sexual offender.  Other than that it seems a family memeber is likely under the circumstances. 

   Just throwing something else out there.   
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« Reply #1346 on: October 24, 2008, 07:45:48 PM »

In fact, I wonder if LE will find some way to leak the results of Caylee's paternity to defang Baez's defense, in a way.  This is a double-edged sword.  The prosecution needs to find a relevance for introducing Caylee's paternity into the case before it goes to trial so as to de-sensitize the jury pool to the defense's shocking revelation in the court room.  Perhaps instead of finding relevance, the best way to deal with the issue is to "leak" it through the media.
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« Reply #1347 on: October 24, 2008, 07:47:51 PM »

Hello All,

   Wonder if it's possible that Caylee's father is a prisioner and his DNA is on file.  That's the only other reasonable explanation I can think of for the A's not wanting him involved and LE having his DNA.  Maybe a sexual offender.  Other than that it seems a family memeber is likely under the circumstances. 

   Just throwing something else out there.   
Stirring the pot, sotospeak?   
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« Reply #1348 on: October 24, 2008, 07:48:38 PM »

One more curious thing to me...when Cindy picked up Casey from Tony's on July 15th why did Casey who never parts with her cell phone leave it at Tony's house?  I just found that strange.   

I wondered about that, too.  Most girls like Casey who live on their phone would have picked it up automatically before leaving with Cindy.  Perhaps she was too upset to be aware of what she had with her?  Nah...that is just a weird thing.  She would have taken her purse and cell phone, automatically.
Casey left her phone at Tony's?
So how did Cindy and Casey go through all of Casey's contacts and notify them that Caylee was missing for 31 days?


Lee went to Tony's apartment the night of July 15th to retrieve all of Casey's things...he got her phone and brought it back home.
Didn't Lee get back home real late that night?Didn't Cindy and Casey get a hold of all of Casey's friends before the police arrived?

While LE are at Anthony home questioning family, Lee goes to Tony's apt. and picks up Casey's laptop, large leopard print duffle bag w/clothing, white backpack w/clothing, large purse with toiletries, female items.
Leaves midnight on 7/15, returns 2:25 am on 7/16.

IIRC, it is no more than a 20 min drive from Tony's to the Anthony home. So where was he for 2 hours?
I'd have to say that Lee was spending that time trying to erase info on the computer.
So did Lee also pick up Casey's cell phone?
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« Reply #1349 on: October 24, 2008, 07:48:56 PM »

Hello All,

   Wonder if it's possible that Caylee's father is a prisioner and his DNA is on file.  That's the only other reasonable explanation I can think of for the A's not wanting him involved and LE having his DNA.  Maybe a sexual offender.  Other than that it seems a family memeber is likely under the circumstances. 

   Just throwing something else out there.   

I haven't ruled out anything, even the possibility that they have no idea who the father is.
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« Reply #1350 on: October 24, 2008, 07:49:36 PM »



She said from the DNA.

Willen - could you please ask her if they only had Caylee's DNA, could they tell by that alone that the father was a family member ?  (because this is supposedly how the whole "Lee is the baby daddy" thing started....)
TIA !!

Maybe I am missing something, but isn't it quite feasible that LP got Lee's DNA from one of the several trips to the trailer, drink cup, hair, cig butt (if he smokes) etc and then compared it to the test from Jessie G?   He seems confident.  I know I posted this a long time ago, but for the new monkeys and for someone to explain why that is not possible.

Second thought - after doing my monkey homework reading.
Is it fair to get ticked at Tony for telling Casey not to bring Caylee.  After all he knew:  The activities in his home that might not be appropiate for a child (sex, drinking, maybe drugs, etc....) and he had not known her long and HAD NO REASON NOT TO BELIEVE there was a NANNY?  I am just saying, seems everyone is ticked that if he hadn't said don't bring Caylee, Caylee would be alive - but by the grace of God (or your belief here) there go any of us, right? 



I'm not ticked at Tony, if that's the way it really went down, he was showing more concern for Caylee's well being than Casey showed. 

Texas Bar None --- wasn't talking to you or any specific poster.  Several pages back a number of posters sounded very angry at Tony.  I know we all want to be mad at someone, but until Casey has someone to share my anger with, I will leave it with her in her little cell!
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« Reply #1351 on: October 24, 2008, 07:49:57 PM »

CSITECH, I don't think any of us here are trying to be "right" about things.  None of us has enough information to sort it all out without speculating and guessing.  We are just doing what curious people do, wondering about the case and how it all unfolded and what the evidence will be.  Sooner or later, we will find out a lot, and the jury will make the final assessments. 

You may be "right" in what your are saying or you may be proven "wrong."  But we are not giving out trophies here.  We are discussing.

Bravo! I agree.  NOTHING has been proven as yet. And stating so...is really laughable.
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« Reply #1352 on: October 24, 2008, 07:50:05 PM »


I'd have to say that Lee was spending that time trying to erase info on the computer.
So did Lee also pick up Casey's cell phone?

[/quote]
No.  Detectives went to Tony's and picked up her cell phone earlier.
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« Reply #1353 on: October 24, 2008, 07:50:14 PM »

Sorry, no one was talking to me.  I need your hug from Dana.
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« Reply #1354 on: October 24, 2008, 07:50:42 PM »

Orchidwoman's theory is pretty strong, too.  I agree with it on many points.

No matter what Cindy may say now, I think she and Casey had a real hot argument toward the end of Father's Day, and Cindy said a number of things that not only made Casey mad but threatened her self-esteem to the core.  "You are an unfit mother.  You are a thief.  I could have you arrested.  You can't be trusted.  We could get custody of Caylee."  It was their worst argument, sort of a culmination of two and a half years of tension, competition, jealousy and attempts to control.  Cindy was angry and so was Casey, but Cindy thought it would blow over.  It did not.  Casey left in a huff with Caylee and refused to let Cindy anywhere near the child or let Cindy talk to Caylee on the phone.  Casey lashed back in the only way she knew how, by leaving and taking Caylee with her.  Given her love of partying and her obvious weariness with child care and motherhood, one would expect her to just walk out and tell Cindy she could have Caylee.  But that would make Cindy right about it all, and it would reward Cindy for what Casey saw as a lack of love or support and too much interference in her life.  So, she left, determined to punish Cindy.  I think at that moment and for days or weeks afterward, she was so angry that all she could think of was getting away from Cindy for good and at any cost. 

I think she got angry with Caylee when Caylee started to cry and ask to go home to grandma.  That would really have set her off, since she thought that Cindy and Caylee were getting too close.  It would have affirmed that the baby loved Cindy more and wanted to be in the house that Casey had come to see as a prison.  Somehow, I do not think this happened in the Anthony house.  It may have happened in the car. 

I think that she had been planning or fantasizing about having Caylee go missing.  The computer searches seem to verify that.  As Orchidwoman said, being the mother of a missing child would bring her loads of love, sympathy and attention and do what she wanted it to do in other ways, too --- keep Cindy from having the child.  It was the perfect way to hurt Cindy and free herself at the same time. 

The Marine played a part in her fantasy plans, probably without knowing it.  Her calls to him and discussions about going to California tell me she had focused on him as a likely helper.  Like Orchid said, it would have been easy for her to get rid of Caylee and claim that someone kidnapped the child, tell the Marine he was the dad, and go off to California to be with him.  But something happened to rush her plan.  She got mad and hurt Caylee and was forced to act before all her ducks were in a row.  Hence, her behavior is very erratic and it appears she had several ideas at once, from saying the car was stolen with Caylee in it to saying Caylee wandered off or something like that.  She did not really fix on the kidnapping story until Cindy said, Who has her?  Then she started ad libbing.

I think she abandoned the car because she realized it had not been cleaned up as fully as she thought and the smell became noticeable but not so noticeable that others would comment if they walked by.  She knew it would get worse and hoped someone would steal the car and get it off her hands.  After it sat at the impound lot for three days, the smell was unbearable and it, as much as anything, prompted Cindy to go looking for Casey and track her down with questions and accusations. 

It is very possible that Casey was counting the days until she could get on a plane to California.  She might have tried to convince the Marine that her daughter had died or that the grandparents had Caylee.  She would have told Cindy that she was going to live with the Marine in California and taking Caylee and then going overseas.  It may have worked, at least for a while.

But Cindy found her and demanded to know where Casey was and called 911.  Casey went into a frenzy of lying that made little sense to anyone but her.  It was all she knew to do.  She held the card that everyone wanted, the location of Caylee's body, so she continued the lie about Zanny, no matter how improbable it seemed.

Whenever I ask, how did she expect to get away with it, I just think of Mark Hacking, the guy who lied for years about being a college student, graduating college, being accepted to medical school, etc.  He just stacked one lie on top of the other until his wife Lorie found out and then he killed her.  The lies were outrageous ones, but he got everyone to believe him, just as Casey got everyone to believe she had a job and went to college and had a sitter named Zanny.



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« Reply #1355 on: October 24, 2008, 07:51:06 PM »

In fact, I wonder if LE will find some way to leak the results of Caylee's paternity to defang Baez's defense, in a way.  This is a double-edged sword.  The prosecution needs to find a relevance for introducing Caylee's paternity into the case before it goes to trial so as to de-sensitize the jury pool to the defense's shocking revelation in the court room.  Perhaps instead of finding relevance, the best way to deal with the issue is to "leak" it through the media.




AZ - I have wondered if LE will use the paternity results and Cindy's statements that Casey was not a good mother and didn't want Caylee, to help build a motive for Casey killing Caylee.
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« Reply #1356 on: October 24, 2008, 07:52:03 PM »

Hello All,

   Wonder if it's possible that Caylee's father is a prisioner and his DNA is on file.  That's the only other reasonable explanation I can think of for the A's not wanting him involved and LE having his DNA.  Maybe a sexual offender.  Other than that it seems a family memeber is likely under the circumstances. 

   Just throwing something else out there.   
Stirring the pot, sotospeak?   

AZ that was goooooooood LOL      
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« Reply #1357 on: October 24, 2008, 07:53:13 PM »

Hi Monkeys.  I've spent the better part of the afternoon reading and catching up.  I think many are not aware of just how often sibling incest occurs.  It is the dark secret in many families.  It does occur FIVE times more often than other relational incest.  While birth defects are common in children born of incest, Caylee obviously did not suffer from this.  Not all children of incest have genetic mutations.  In fact, the MAJORITY are born perfectly normal.  However, genetic mutations occur with a greater frequency than in normal populations.  I posted some research on all this a few weeks ago, so if anyone is interested, you can search my posts. 

I think it is quite possible Lee is Caylee's father, as repulsive as that seems to us.  Other monkeys have posted the inconsistencies in the family's comments about paternity, the other indications that make many think this is the secret this family is protecting.

My concern is that Baez will use this as a defensive strategy, claiming Casey is a "victim" (as Cindy likes to remind us) of her brother's sexual assault.  This is really more of a concern to me than any insanity defense which would never fly in court.  I'm afraid a jury would be sympathetic to this woman if Baez attempts to show she was repeatedly sexually assaulted by her brother and "forced" to bear his child.  I have read some of the psychological research that indicates women can be the aggressors in sibling incest, but usually if the male is elder, this is not the case.  I really think this is a serious concern and what Baez was talking about when he said we would understand when they get a chance to tell their story.

Very interesting.  I remember reading your posts, but I couldn't remember who posted this info.
Wow. that is interesting and a side I didn't think about.
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« Reply #1358 on: October 24, 2008, 07:53:51 PM »

Sorry, no one was talking to me.  I need your hug from Dana.

Not dana, but will this help?     You're A-l, you saucy kitty-cat! 
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« Reply #1359 on: October 24, 2008, 07:54:16 PM »

Everyone's comments here are speculation and discussion, and this should be understood by all participants.  As I tell my students, argumentation is NOT INTENDED to determine who is right or wrong, but to RESULT in increased understanding.  We can hotly disagree, but it's not a contest with a winner and a loser.  It's a race for more understanding.
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