Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #49

[anothermonkey]

Kerry, thanks for posting that picture.  Honestly, it was hard for me to tell either way. Maybe some of the other monkeys will be able to see the resemblance 


I sure hope NG gives Kobe the smack down tonight!!

[SunnyinTX]

Yep...but I think that would happen rather quickly in the FL heat...someone, forgive me I don't remember who, posted a very good article about how the body decomposes, how long under what conditions etc...it was some time back and I didn't keep it....

I saved the info without the link

Moment of Death:
1} The heart stops
2} The skin gets tight and grey in color
3} All the muscles relax
4} The bladder and bowels empty
. . . .4a - Men will get an erection. No, I don't know when, exactly. I really didn't feel like calling up the local mortuary and asking this. And there's people on my mailing list I could have asked, I bet, but it's kind of weird popping up and asking that. No pun intended. I'm not sure my parents know what erections are, so I can't ask them. I did read that this was one of the reasons hangings were so well attended by women, back in the old.days. Big Laffs, seeing the Hung, hung.
5} The body's temperature will typically drop 1.5 degrees F. per hour unless outside environment is a factor. The liver is the organ that stays warmest the longest, and this temperature is used to establish time of death if the body is found within that time frame.
After 30 minutes:
6} The skin gets purple and waxy
7} The lips, finger- and toe nails fade to a pale color or turn white as the blood leaves.
8} Blood pools at the lowest parts of the body leaving a dark purple-black stain called lividity
9} The hands and feet turn blue
10} The eyes start to sink into the skull
After 4 hours:
11} Rigor mortis starts to set in
12} The purpling of the skin and pooling of blood continue
13} Rigor Mortis begins to tighten the muscles for about another 24 hours, then will reverse and the body will return to a limp state.
After 12 hours:
14} The body is in full rigor mortis.
After 24 hours:
15} The body is now the temperature of the surrounding environment
16} In males, the semen dies
17} The head and neck are now a greenish-blue color
18} The greenish-blue color continues to spread to the rest of the body
19} There is the strong smell of rotting meat20} The face of the person is essentially no longer recognizable
After 3 days:
21} The gases in the body tissues form large blisters on the skin
22} The whole body begins to bloat and swell grotesquely. This process is speeded up if victim is in a hot environment, or in water
23} Fluids leak from the mouth, nose, eyes, ears and rectum and urinary opening
After 3 weeks:
24} The skin, hair, and nails are so loose they can be easily pulled off the corpse
25} The skin cracks and bursts open in many places because of the pressure of Internal gases and the breakdown of the skin itself
26} Decomposition will continue until body is nothing but skeletal remains, which can take as little as a month in hot climates and two months in cold climates. The teeth are often the only thing left, years and centuries later, because tooth enamel is the strongest substance in the body. The jawbone is the densest, so that usually will also remain. So don't forget - brush regularly and floss only if you're really bored.
_____________

Thanks.....even without the link

[always 1]

Im back.  This is O/T kinda.  Have you ever read the the book "The Thing About Life Is One Day You'll Be Dead' It is by David Shields. It talks about how the body breaks down from the womb to the tomb and I won't do a book report but it is very entertaining.....

[Anna]

Rob, I completely agree about displacement and gases except would add that the plug could have popped as well or either plug or top or my guess would be both.

Imagine Casey's surprise when that happened.  Guess she should have stayed in school a bit longer.

Container would also explain transportation later.  The dates all give me a headache but decomp without oxygen would require a container of some sort or other.  Surely not even Casey would try to use just storage bin but never know.  Anything basically that would block out oxygen would have to have been used for tests to report that specific type of decomp. wouldn't it?

.

[SunnyinTX]

I went back and did a search on the forum and I don't see anyone posting about this before- so I am going to post it- just in case anyone is interested.

There is an Eric J. Baker facebook listing- but I can't view it- I am not a friend- don't know how that works

but his networks are listed as Kansas '10 and Orlando
He looks young and if he is in fact deceased I am thinking this may be him.
His picture is terrible but I enlarged it by 200% and sharpened and call me crazy- but I think there is a slight resemblance to Caylee.
I dunno- I am probably crazy- but willing to email the picture if someone wants to see it cleaned up

I don't no nittin' 'bout pictures...but we got some smart monkeys here who do...I'd be interested in seeing it

[Tamikosmom]

So the rumor of Casey driving around with the dead body in the trunk for eleven days is just not true.  I didn't see how she could have stood the smell after eleven days.

Me either Hudsunn......just didnt see that one...

That proves that what I said is true to those of you that don't believe what I said. Who told us that caylees body was in the car for 11 days? Proves my point and I am right.

OHMYGAWD Taters I am so glad I had put my hot tea down before I saw this!!   

 

Tater ... you are so funny.

Janet

[Anninflorida]

Sometimes, I really have to wonder about the amount of information the media releases.  For me, it would have been more that satisfactory to just say that KC was searching for ways to make chloroform.  Now that the media has all released the recipe, commented on how easy and affordable it is to make, I have to wonder how many crimes will now be used using this to sedate people during crimes???

[SunnyinTX]

At the risk of being gross, I will share with you a little info on how this Florida heat can affect a body.  This is 100% true info, as I witnessed this a few years ago.  I was doing work for a non-profit organization and we were called to come pick up a truck full of household items because the owner has passed away.  This call did not seem unusual as this often happened.  Seniors would often move to Florida, pass away and the children sometimes never wanted anything....just needed everything cleaned out.  I went to this condo, accompanied by two men that were going to pack up the contents.  The condo manager met us and accompanied us up the elevator.  The deceased mans condo was directly across from the elevator.  Immediately, I noticed towels rolled up in front of the door.  The manager explained that he had recently had an exterminator out to the condo, so I thought this was the reason for the towels.  The manager opened the door and I thought I was going to die!!! The fumes were so bad that the men with me ran to the end of the hall, heaving over the balcony.  The manager then explained that the gentleman had passed away inside the condo and was there for two weeks before being discovered.  His air conditioner was turned off and had not been on in the two week period.  The carpets had been stripped from the floor, the paint has been removed from the walls....all in an attempt to deal with the odor.  All of the man's body fluid had seeped into the carpet and had actually leaked through the floor....into the unit directly below.  That is how his body was discovered.  Of course, we told the manager that we couldn't accept anything and he told us that everything would be "disposed of."  This was a shame, as there were some great antiques in the home but I just couldn't deal with the odor and everything seemed to be saturated.  This was inside a dwelling....not in the trunk of a car. The temperatures in a car can rise very high in the Florida heat. I just cannot imagine what the situation in that car must have been like!!!

UGH!!!

[kerryjean1]

I went back and did a search on the forum and I don't see anyone posting about this before- so I am going to post it- just in case anyone is interested.

There is an Eric J. Baker facebook listing- but I can't view it- I am not a friend- don't know how that works

but his networks are listed as Kansas '10 and Orlando
He looks young and if he is in fact deceased I am thinking this may be him.
His picture is terrible but I enlarged it by 200% and sharpened and call me crazy- but I think there is a slight resemblance to Caylee.
I dunno- I am probably crazy- but willing to email the picture if someone wants to see it cleaned up

I don't no nittin' 'bout pictures...but we got some smart monkeys here who do...I'd be interested in seeing it

just go back one page. I just kept thinking of how she looks in the car seat picture. Like I said I am probably crazy and now I feel bad for posting it. I'm considering taking it down- I don't want to drag one more person into this mess if they don't have anything to do with it.

[SunnyinTX]

So the rumor of Casey driving around with the dead body in the trunk for eleven days is just not true.  I didn't see how she could have stood the smell after eleven days.

ICE,IMO

I am really leaning towards that too.....no way could she have driven around with Caylee deceased and decomposing in the the trunk of the car UNLESS she were in a cooler. I don't see her burying her and then going back and digging her up and then disposing of her again....

but I still think there is a good possibility she threw her little body in an area known to have alligators....

Sunny, I believe the PDF specifies chemicals consistent with anaerobic decomp, doesn't it?  This would be consistent with a container of some sort.  I wonder if that's what the purchase at JCP could have been, a Coleman cooler or similar or one to replace one taken if the dates are not correct?

Anna!!   That certainly seems to be a HUGE possibility...and something bought at JCP was important....enough that Cindy didn't want it known and Rob Dick mentioned it being important!!

Aerobic = sustained by air/oxygen
Anaerobic = sustained without air/oxygen

Maybe I am reading that wrong but if not, the only way I can think of for decomp to happen in anaerobic manner would be in "air tight" container.  Of course we all know that everything begins to "leak" on a molecular level right away but it would cause different type of decomp.

So even in airtight container, there would be leakage but would slow down process and also create a different type of decomp than that when exposed to air.

Ergo, I conclude a container that was basically airtight was used.  Now what kind I have no idea but Igloos are used for organ transplants being flown across the country, etc.  Maybe somethng along those lines?
JMO, of course.

and Casey is a big CSI fan so she might know that... We have an Igloo and that thing keeps ice in it for days....when we were without electricity in TX for 4 days we put our frozen meat in the Igloo and it stayed frozen even without ice in it.

[SunnyinTX]

So the rumor of Casey driving around with the dead body in the trunk for eleven days is just not true.  I didn't see how she could have stood the smell after eleven days.

ICE,IMO

I am really leaning towards that too.....no way could she have driven around with Caylee deceased and decomposing in the the trunk of the car UNLESS she were in a cooler. I don't see her burying her and then going back and digging her up and then disposing of her again....

but I still think there is a good possibility she threw her little body in an area known to have alligators....

Sunny, I believe the PDF specifies chemicals consistent with anaerobic decomp, doesn't it?  This would be consistent with a container of some sort.  I wonder if that's what the purchase at JCP could have been, a Coleman cooler or similar or one to replace one taken if the dates are not correct?

Anna!!   That certainly seems to be a HUGE possibility...and something bought at JCP was important....enough that Cindy didn't want it known and Rob Dick mentioned it being important!!

Aerobic = sustained by air/oxygen
Anaerobic = sustained without air/oxygen

Maybe I am reading that wrong but if not, the only way I can think of for decomp to happen in anaerobic manner would be in "air tight" container.  Of course we all know that everything begins to "leak" on a molecular level right away but it would cause different type of decomp.

So even in airtight container, there would be leakage but would slow down process and also create a different type of decomp than that when exposed to air.

Ergo, I conclude a container that was basically airtight was used.  Now what kind I have no idea but Igloos are used for organ transplants being flown across the country, etc.  Maybe somethng along those lines?



JMO, of course.

.

  Dry ice!!Could she have used that?

I would certainly think so

[Blaze]

Rob, I completely agree about displacement and gases except would add that the plug could have popped as well or either plug or top or my guess would be both.

Imagine Casey's surprise when that happened.  Guess she should have stayed in school a bit longer.

Container would also explain transportation later.  The dates all give me a headache but decomp without oxygen would require a container of some sort or other.  Surely not even Casey would try to use just storage bin but never know.  Anything basically that would block out oxygen would have to have been used for tests to report that specific type of decomp. wouldn't it?

.

You guys are sooo smart. 

[Rob]

Rob, I completely agree about displacement and gases except would add that the plug could have popped as well or either plug or top or my guess would be both.

Imagine Casey's surprise when that happened.  Guess she should have stayed in school a bit longer.

Container would also explain transportation later.  The dates all give me a headache but decomp without oxygen would require a container of some sort or other.  Surely not even Casey would try to use just storage bin but never know.  Anything basically that would block out oxygen would have to have been used for tests to report that specific type of decomp. wouldn't it?

.

ya know this has been a sticking point for most Anna. Meaning - was Casey planning on ditching the car or burning the car. The explanation is probably much less complex.

Casey is a young killer and can not take into consideration all known and unknown events that will occur.

A lid pops off, or a valve is left open and that accounts for the smell in the car and was not planned, nor considered, by Casey.

As Caylee is decomposing, in an air-tight environment, the bacteria is working it's magic. However, it is not ventilated which in itself would have produced the mother of all aromas when that lid pop or valve released. This is a situation no one can plan for. You can't put that smell back in the bottle or just roll down a window. It's there and not going anywhere.

It would also explain why there is a small stain and not a large decomp area that a body would naturally make is it decays.

[klaasend]

A cooler type container with or without ice.  I wonder if any of the receipts found in the car by LE were for ice. 

Maybe that's where the "frozen foods" she had when Tony picked her up come into play as well as backing the car into the garage to within inches of that deep freezer?

All speculation, of course, but the anaerobic statement does tend toward a container at the least.  Perhaps one like Coleman that has the plug for drainage of water as ice melts and resulted in decomp material leaking out of that plug into the trunk.

.

Anna - I suggested that as well before the document release today.  It would be easy to buy/use/dispose of a cooler with wheels.

[KarmaRoundUp]

One more curious thing to me...when Cindy picked up Casey from Tony's on July 15th why did Casey who never parts with her cell phone leave it at Tony's house?  I just found that strange.   

I wondered about that, too.  Most girls like Casey who live on their phone would have picked it up automatically before leaving with Cindy.  Perhaps she was too upset to be aware of what she had with her?  Nah...that is just a weird thing.  She would have taken her purse and cell phone, automatically.

Casey left her phone at Tony's?
So how did Cindy and Casey go through all of Casey's contacts and notify them that Caylee was missing for 31 days?

Lee went to Tony's apartment the night of July 15th to retrieve all of Casey's things...he got her phone and brought it back home.

Didn't Lee get back home real late that night?Didn't Cindy and Casey get a hold of all of Casey's friends before the police arrived?

[Rob]

You guys are sooo smart. 

Blaze - thanks. Too bad you weren't around to see us bankrupt Aruba. You probably would have really appreciated that. 

[Sal]

"The details of the report released Friday are probably part of what the grand jury heard last week before indicting Casey, but it's not all of the evidence. The thousands of tips that were called in on the case are expected to be released soon and Eyewitness News has learned the vast majority of them are from psychics."


Source:  http://www.wftv.com/news/17793661/detail.html

[klaasend]

FYI - Don't discount it - this happened in Montana during the summer.  Remember this story?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,419122,00.html



Police: Montana Mother Kept Dead Son, 2, in Car Trunk
Monday , September 08, 2008
 GREAT FALLS, Mont. —

The body of a toddler found in the trunk of his mother's car may have been there for months as she drove around town, evaded questions about him and was even arrested, police said.

The mother, Summer ManyWhiteHorses, was charged Monday with deliberate homicide. Authorities say the body of her 2-year-old son, James, was found Friday in the trunk of her car — more than six weeks after it was towed to a wrecking yard when she was arrested.

Deputy County Attorney Joel Thompson said authorities have yet to determine how or when the boy died. An autopsy is being conducted. According to court records, ManyWhiteHorses told police the boy's death was an accident, and that she placed his body in the car's trunk on May 29.

ManyWhiteHorses was being held on $250,000 bail. During a brief court hearing, she appeared without an attorney and was provided forms for a public defender.

Personnel at the Cascade County Detention Center turned away a reporter's attempt to speak with her Monday because it was outside visiting hours.

ManyWhiteHorses was first arrested July 21, after authorities said she was driving erratically. As police attempted to pull her over, she drove through several stoplights and crashed into a parked car. Her 11-year-old daughter was in the back seat and, unknown to police, the toddler's body was apparently in the trunk, authorities said.

Police officers did not search the trunk, and the car was towed. ManyWhiteHorses was arrested, and child welfare officials began looking into placing the daughter into state custody.

ManyWhiteHorses was given misdemeanor citations in connection with the crash and later released from jail. Authorities said she did not retrieve her car even though she was free to do so.

Child welfare officials moved for custody of the daughter in August and were trying to determine the boy's whereabouts.

During the investigation, authorities learned that ManyWhiteHorses told relatives the state had taken the toddler long ago, that state officials were told initially the child was in Browning and then later that he was in Portland, Ore.

"Her stories varied based upon who she was talking to," said police Detective Bruce McDermott.

Police were brought into the case last week after child welfare agents could not verify the toddler's location. A short time later, ManyWhiteHorses told officers the toddler, who had autism, had died in late May, according to court records. ManyWhiteHorses told police she put the body in the trunk, wrapped in a blanket inside a garbage bag, the affidavit said.

Officers went to the wrecking yard and found the boy's body in the trunk, authorities said.

ManyWhiteHorses' aunt, Ernestine Small, said she had taken care of the two children during ManyWhiteHorses' prior run-ins with the law. Small had been hoping to take custody again this summer, but was told by ManyWhiteHorses that the toddler had been placed in foster care.

"Nobody expected this," Small said in an interview at the courthouse. "I know she gets violent, but never thought she would do this to her baby."

Both prosecutors and police said the officers followed the law by not searching the trunk after ManyWhiteHorses' July 21 arrest, saying legal cause and a search warrant would have been needed.

"Police had no reason to believe there was anything of evidentiary value in the trunk," McDermott said.

Small, ManyWhiteHorses' aunt, said the officers could not have known to search the trunk.

"Why would they?" she said.

[Anninflorida]

If you were in a close proximity with a decomposing body...i.e. inside the same car....wouldn't that odor permeate your hair, clothing, etc???  I wonder why the people around her when she would get out of the car didn't pick up on a foul odor???

[Tater]

Ok here goes...Some of you know that I have always leaned towards Hefty steel garbage bags.I still do not see why this could not be a possibility?They could certainly be airtight and cause suffication.Help me understand why it is not possible they were used...I keep thinking about Jessica Lundsford...