Lively Case Discussion #527 9/26 - 9/29/2006

[klaasend]

What if the location was Malmok Beach ?
The call from Joran to Deepak came from the vicinity of the huts / Mariott. You  can't pinpoint, there is a raduis depending on what cell tower you are near.
Sandor's phone had something in it that he was worried about.
Hence it was " stolen " at school on the Monday. Then he discussed this with Freddy on the Tuesday. Then he gets rid of the phone. Do cell phones with picture taking transmissions have memory that could be retrieved ? Bad sentence. Late, but you know what I mean.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Sunfreak2,

I thought the search on the VDS pc on drugs/alchohol was done early AM on 5/30/05....long before the Twitty family knew anything had happened, to Natalee.   Don't see how this works into your last post..regarding Paulus giving a heads up to Joran at the raquet club....

Maybe it's late and I'm not comprehending as I should.

Paulus's drug research was in the early evening around 7:30 PM on Monday night 5/30.

I'm sorry...just looked at the info we have here, and didn't see this...guess I need direction, again....all that I found or recall were early AM hours...thanks.

[igsigs]

I'm hoping Rammstein or some other Dutch poster will point out all the mistakes I made.  

  It is kinda funny. Some say it's terrible! and misleading! and HMI!

All the while the Dutch original is staring them in the face and they don't move a finger to correct it. A little transparent, i say.

[jobie]

Personally I don't think Paulus involved a DR.  A physician who made an honest mistake that ended up harming or killing someone would not jump to Paulus's offer.  That physician would stand firm in his resolve it was a just tragic mistake he made.  An unethical physician might accept Paulu's proprosal for a trade off, but most likely Paulus would not be willing to sacrifice his control of the situation.  Adding a physician to the mix creates more problems than it solves, especially if he chooses an unethical one, he is prone to blackmail for forever.

[klaasend]

I'm hoping Rammstein or some other Dutch poster will point out all the mistakes I made.  

  It is kinda funny. Some say it's terrible! and misleading! and HMI!

All the while the Dutch original is staring them in the face and they don't move a finger to correct it. A little transparent, i say.

Some of the translations are easier than others.  This last one has 3 areas I think where I couldn't really figure it out.  But I note that in the translation itself with a question mark.

What really cracks me up is when the do re-translate it and it basically is the exact same thing.

Another funny part was one of Satish's last statements where he says Paulus say no corpse.  At first they were trying to say I CHOSE the word corpse.  After the Dutch looked at it, it was determined the word was indeed corpse.  ha ha  

[jobie]

Personally I don't think Paulus involved a DR.  A physician who made an honest mistake that ended up harming or killing someone would not jump to Paulus's offer.  That physician would stand firm in his resolve it was a just tragic mistake he made.  An unethical physician might accept Paulu's proprosal for a trade off, but most likely Paulus would not be willing to sacrifice his control of the situation.  Adding a physician to the mix creates more problems than it solves, especially if he chooses an unethical one, he is prone to blackmail for forever.

SF let me try this again.  What about this guy..."Fernando VIANA" was in the appartement with us. His father is Dr. Carlos Viana This was taken from the caption under the picture of Fernando in the "Important Documents" page.  What kind of doctor is his father, anyone know?

[igsigs]

Klaas, did you see MFs *President of the Courts* post on FOB?

Looks interesting, but no source and i can't tell if it is BS or not.

[LilPuma]

I'm thinking of the statements by Joran & Paulus about that Monday's escapades at the Racquet Club.  

This is all supposition on my part.  The Twitty's notify the chaperone they are enroute to Aruba and they have the name Joran from one of the Twitty twins who was playing in the Texas Hold'em tournament.  The chaperone calls the police to check on ALE's progress and tells them that the family is enroute and the name they have is Joran. The police tip off Paulus that some girls family is enroute and that Joran left from Carlos N Charlies with the missing girl.  They mention that CnC's is a place where drinks are drugged.  Paulus quickly gets on line to search drugs & drinking & what could happen.  He quickly prints out a list of attorney's phone numbers too.  He grabs a gym bag for an alibi reason to go see Joran and heads out to find Joran.  He intercepts Joran somewhere enroute to the hotels and tells him what is coming down is that the family of the girl is heading to Aruba.  Paulus told Joran to secure a good hiding place for the meantime. I think it took them all by surprise that they showed up at 3ish AM - the vdS were hoping it would be a confrontation during the day, while Joran was safely at school.  So they had to fly by the seat of their pants to come up with a story.  Being dumb naive boys, they didn't realize that the HI dropoff story wouldn't fly too far.  Paulus realizes this after visting the hotel Tues early AM with the posse & poliz.  Paulus relaizes that wherever Joran put the body is not good enough, so he takes over the disposal job to completely disappear the body.  Then he set about calling in the favors from the few corrupt cops he knew he could trust to bumble & saboutage the investigation.   I even think the many inconsistencies in the stories, the finger pointing was part of the subterfuge to confuse the issues.  I think as the media descended on Aruba, the gov't realized the need to aide in the coverup in an effort to safe tourism and it snowballed out of Paulu's control.

Makes sense to me.  I think van der Straaten would be the person Paulus would call; didn't Anita call him when Paulus was arrested?  We haven't really confirmed a strong friendship with any of the judges, have we?  I know it was rumored that Smid was a friend, but I don't know that we have confirmation.  Now the duffle bag stories become even more important.  Did it have Joran's shoes and clothes from the night before in it?  Did Guido, whom Joran was supposed to play tennis with, help him burn his clothes and shoes?  Paulus would have been trying to put together alibis, get rid of evidence, while telling J2K to go through their normal routines.  I agree they knew the family was coming, maybe checked the airlines for the next flight not knowing they'd be coming in on a company jet.  They didn't know that Beth, her sister and the strength of the Holloway-Twitty clan would grab the attention of the US media, who turned out to be pitt bulls in this case.  They underestimated all of them and didn't know there'd be so many "stupid Americans" who would fan the flames that are still consuming Aruba.

[klaasend]

Personally I don't think Paulus involved a DR.  A physician who made an honest mistake that ended up harming or killing someone would not jump to Paulus's offer.  That physician would stand firm in his resolve it was a just tragic mistake he made.  An unethical physician might accept Paulu's proprosal for a trade off, but most likely Paulus would not be willing to sacrifice his control of the situation.  Adding a physician to the mix creates more problems than it solves, especially if he chooses an unethical one, he is prone to blackmail for forever.

SF let me try this again.  What about this guy..."Fernando VIANA" was in the appartement with us. His father is Dr. Carlos Viana This was taken from the caption under the picture of Fernando in the "Important Documents" page.  What kind of doctor is his father, anyone know?

http://www.viananaturalhealing.com/otherhtml/english/bio.html

VIANA NATURAL HEALING CENTER ARUBA

(snipped)
Besides being the Medical Director of the Viana Natural Healing Center, in Aruba, Dr. Viana currently has a live weekly radio program, and writes and lectures frequently on health in several languages. Dr. Viana-Alfaro had been nominated by Dr. C. T. Smith as Medical Director for ICBR (International Clinic of Biological Regeneration) Caribbean and Latin American Division.

Dr. Carlos Viana is licensed to practice integrative medicine in Aruba, Dutch West Indies and in Curaçao, Netherlands Antilles
(snipped)

[klaasend]

Fernando Viana:



Dr. Carlos Viana:

[jobie]

Personally I don't think Paulus involved a DR.  A physician who made an honest mistake that ended up harming or killing someone would not jump to Paulus's offer.  That physician would stand firm in his resolve it was a just tragic mistake he made.  An unethical physician might accept Paulu's proprosal for a trade off, but most likely Paulus would not be willing to sacrifice his control of the situation.  Adding a physician to the mix creates more problems than it solves, especially if he chooses an unethical one, he is prone to blackmail for forever.

SF let me try this again.  What about this guy..."Fernando VIANA" was in the appartement with us. His father is Dr. Carlos Viana This was taken from the caption under the picture of Fernando in the "Important Documents" page.  What kind of doctor is his father, anyone know?

I have to add though, I don't think PVD would try to get medical attention for Natalee.  He would know the less people involved, the better off he is.  I also think he was right in the thick of it and knows exactly what went on... if not a part of it.  If Freddie did take video it is long gone.  I can't understand why no one is willing to come forward with information to claim the reward.  Someone who was not involved knows something.  That dirty little island is to small and the story to big for them to keep quiet.  Unless they are terrified of someone more important than those nasty 2Ks and JVD.

[jobie]

Fernando Viana:



Dr. Carlos Viana:

Thanks Klaas.  That is amazing how you just whip answers up like magic!  I don't think this Dr. would risk his reputation for a wanna be judge.  So I rule hiim out.  Thanks.

[klaasend]

GOODNIGHT ALL!  See you tomorrow!

[LilPuma]

Klaas, about the translations, I've even read that people don't believe any of it and without the Dutch originals, the translations have no credibility.  I didn't bother to mention that on SM the Dutch originals are also posted.   I know that the real problem is that these statements don't fit their agenda.  Keep up the good work and remember, you don't need a psych evaluation to get online.  

[igsigs]

From MF at FOB:

Interview with the President of the Common Court of the Netherland Antilles and Aruba, Luis Delannoy (presides over the 28 judges on the island).

President of the Courts in Aruba said in an interview that their involvement in the Natalee Holloway case will start when the Prosecuter accuses some people as suspects and they are asked to process them. In this case, it has not come so far. The only involvement they had in this case, was in the investigation process where some people were detained for interrogation and had to appear in front of a Judge of Instruction.

The Judge of Instructions at a certain moment in the case, did let the suspects free, because the investigation did not give enough evidence to keep them detained, which was the verdict of the court, but also there was no evidence to process anyone and there is still no evidence to summon no one. He thinks the prosecuter still has not enough evidence.

At this situation, the President said that if there is no evidence coming in by the end of the year, the case will end for the suspect this year. The investigation can continue though for eternity.

After the case is over, there must be an evaluation of the system, and if indeed some things must be changed. But saying that there were errors, he cannot say that because he has not seen the dossier.

Regarding the Dutch police coming to help in the case, he said it will be difficult for them to come up with a result at this time, even if they start all over again. But he agrees that everybody wants to see a solution and that's why they want to try once more. But he expects nothing new.

[igsigs]

What's up with Delannoy?

Why try to distance the Judges from this case? On one hand he states that they have not been involved with the case and then later admits they have interrogated, detained and freed the suspects.

And enough of the no evidence, no evidence, no evidence mantra. Maybe there is some in that dossier you admit to have not seen? Same goes for his pessimism regarding the Dutch investigation, let them look at the dossier that you haven't seen and decide for themselves.

Luis Delannoy expects nothing new. Or is he hoping for nothing new?

[Hotshot]

Personally I don't think Paulus involved a DR.  A physician who made an honest mistake that ended up harming or killing someone would not jump to Paulus's offer.  That physician would stand firm in his resolve it was a just tragic mistake he made.  An unethical physician might accept Paulu's proprosal for a trade off, but most likely Paulus would not be willing to sacrifice his control of the situation.  Adding a physician to the mix creates more problems than it solves, especially if he chooses an unethical one, he is prone to blackmail for forever.

SF let me try this again.  What about this guy..."Fernando VIANA" was in the appartement with us. His father is Dr. Carlos Viana This was taken from the caption under the picture of Fernando in the "Important Documents" page.  What kind of doctor is his father, anyone know?

Check the names on this board out, and read....

http://bb.visitaruba.com/archive/index.php/t-4033.html

[msmarple]

Good Morning, Hotshot ... long time no see?

[msmarple]

Didn't Native Lingo and/or Arubagirl used to rave about this doctor?

[Hotshot]

Didn't Native Lingo and/or Arubagirl used to rave about this doctor?

 I think that was a different Dr.  A very cute one to be exact...  So how ya been?  I have started EMT school and haven't been around too much.  It is a tough course.