Lively Case Discussion #527 9/26 - 9/29/2006

[Whodunit?]

Mrs Red-

You know I guess you don't choose the username with rat in it, if you're anything akin to a nice guy?  

Klaas-

I know we looked at the european shoe size charts? Was that what explained that differential? I know I wear a 10 in US and a 42 in european - but what was the size conversion for a 14 men's?

http://www.kswiss.com/kswiss/sizechart.html

49 Europe and 13 UK

Isn't 10.5 ABNORMALLY small for someone of Joran's height?

Joran is abnormal.  He is a freak.

To answer your question yes it is abnormal and I do not believe that is his shoe size.

My younger nephew (17) is 5.10 and he wears an 12
My older nephew (23) 6.1 and he wears 13.

My hubby is 5'5" and wears a 9.5 or 10!!!!!!!!!!!!

[friend of monkeys]

Klaassend

Do you think it would be possible to do a couple route maps similar to the ones in the timeline thread sticky, except using sattellite photos?

Also, can you use Google Earth scale info to figure out the exact distance from FH to Marriott?  I'm pretty sure it's 0.6 miles but I've read different figures and want to be certain I have it right.

Shizaru - I'll see what I can do but may not get to it right away.  I've got some "real" work to do today.

     
NOOOOO.......u have another job besides keeping the monkeys from
flinging pooh!!!!  ?????  i am in shock Klass!!!

[friend of monkeys]

THIK......good thought on the shoes.....wonder what dumpster paulus threw them in......

see u monkeys later
time for my meds...lol

[SunFreak2]

Sunfreak: Can you help me with satellite map(s) I want to add to the timeline?

Sure, tell me what you want.  I probably have a bunch of them already.

[SunFreak2]

yes it does me Mrs Red, grosses me out totally.....but it's a real peek inside Anita's psyche and I guess we need to see how wacko that might be?

jerseymom, good to see you too!

I think that it is an insight into how they think on that island...  or maybe how jvds got so angry... or something.. it just makes me think it's a clue into the family dynamic, especailly coupled with how he treats the parents when we see him on CA, etc... he pets his mom's head and kisses the top of her head like she is the child...

A lot of the pyscho nuts have a weird relationship with their Mamas. That's just another notch on Joran's belt of socio-pyschopathology.

[Shizaru]

Sunfreak: Can you help me with satellite map(s) I want to add to the timeline?

Sure, tell me what you want.  I probably have a bunch of them already.

This might be a bit of a project...

What I'd like is a couple maps just like the two below, with routes marked, except using satellite photos

Joran Version



Kalpoe Version




and including ONLY the following locations

CnC
Joran's House
La Cabana
HI
Marriott
Raquet Club
Fishermens Huts
Deepak Relief Spot
Lighthouse
also Kalpoe home if that will fit on the map

and not essential but would also be good if for Marriott and Huts map gave their distance from HI

[Leslie]

   Happy Birthday Terry          

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Aruban Education System, WOW …You think this may be an Issue?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/09/27/aruban-education-system-wow-you-think-this-may-be-an-issue/

[SunFreak2]

Klaassend

Do you think it would be possible to do a couple route maps similar to the ones in the timeline thread sticky, except using sattellite photos?

Also, can you use Google Earth scale info to figure out the exact distance from FH to Marriott?  I'm pretty sure it's 0.6 miles but I've read different figures and want to be certain I have it right.

The distance from the side road immediately north of the Marriott to the next side road Noth (at the FH) is 0.18 miles.  It is approximately 0.6 miles from the FH to the pool area of the HI, which is where she would have had to go to enter the HI from the beach.

[Anna]

I am behind and reading trying to catch up.

Few things:

I sent Shizaru Sunfreak's address with her permission of course.

Sorry I missed Jerseymom!  

Klaas, I would imagine the "Dutch" is much like the English in some of the instances we have encountered in dealing with Arubans.  It is not the best in the first place thence you may have variables.  They speak it, sure, but how well?  And writing it is a whole 'nother ballgame.  Don't get me wrong, I respect multilingual people highly and admire them tremendously but am just saying that language does not seem to be a high priority in Aruba and I suspect they take liberties with all four that are used there.

Feet are one of the things that continue to grow our whole lives.  Also noses and ears.  But feet especially are made to grow from the support of the weight.  I have a son who is 6'3" or 4" not sure and he wears a size eleven.  And has narrow feet.  Several ankle injuries.

Joran plays tennis and that requires tight fitting shoes as if there is any play you will get blisters like anything.  His feet do look rather small to me.  I think he was lying about the Size 14 and knows Satish wears a 10.5.  Therefore he, Joran, must NOT wear that size in case footprints of a size 10.5 or shoes are found, he could say not his, too small must belong to Satish or Deepak.

Have to work and finish catching up reading posts but will be back eventually.

Anyone hear from Easy yet?  

.

[Anna]

.
Just a random thought but does anyone else ever think Joran might be just stone cold crazy?  I mean as in insane??  That boy just ain't right!  And I am not talking about in a way to be used as a defense, just a mean, mad dog kind of nutcase?

The more I read, the more I wonder. . . . . . . . . . .

BBAfter a bit of work and reading.

.

[Anna]

From Sander's statement :
On your question if I had contact with Joran on May 31, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not have contact with Joran on 31 May 2005. I did, however, have telephone contact with Freddy. The conversation went concerning my telephone that was stolen. The first time that I saw him was on Wednesday, therefore June 1, 2005. I met him at its house. Before I went to its house I called him. That was around 16:00. That was the time when I with Amanda, Flor and Gilayla went to his house.

Why is Freddy who is over 20 discussing a lost phone at school with a 15 year old ?

Why, indeed?  Had something been sent to his phone that was of concern to Freddy and the older PIMPS that needed to be made to disappear?  

What if someone actually DID steal the phone and are now in possession of some sort of actual physical evidence?  I know it is too much to hope for but if the phone was really lost and there were photos of what happened that night, it is a thought and one sure to keep the PIMPs awake at night.  Nah, nothing would do that because they know they will never be prosecuted.  But it is a thought.

Among many thoughts. . . .

[San]

.
Just a random thought but does anyone else ever think Joran might be just stone cold crazy?  I mean as in insane??  That boy just ain't right!  And I am not talking about in a way to be used as a defense, just a mean, mad dog kind of nutcase?

The more I read, the more I wonder. . . . . . . . . . .

BBAfter a bit of work and reading.

.

Yes Anna I do think he is insane.  He is not right and we all know this.  Why that island would want to jeopardize everything over an insane individual just boggles my mind.  He is not worth it.

[thik]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Aruban Education System, WOW …You think this may be an Issue?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/09/27/aruban-education-system-wow-you-think-this-may-be-an-issue/

probably a big issue with the KIA fire exit controversy,,
no one can read 'exit' to get out anyway,,  so why have it.

idiots !   They're so wrapped up in their 'false reality', they can't see
themselves swooshing down the toilet....

[Anna]

What's up with Delannoy?

Why try to distance the Judges from this case? On one hand he states that they have not been involved with the case and then later admits they have interrogated, detained and freed the suspects.

And enough of the no evidence, no evidence, no evidence mantra. Maybe there is some in that dossier you admit to have not seen? Same goes for his pessimism regarding the Dutch investigation, let them look at the dossier that you haven't seen and decide for themselves.

Luis Delannoy expects nothing new. Or is he hoping for nothing new?

The judges are part of the cover-up.  Why don't they just call Jan Van der Straaten before a judge and ask them why he thinks Natalee is dead.  Ask him what was the so called "I have seen the evidence" to make him believe she is dead.  Ask him why he made the family take the kidnapping posters down.  If she wasn't kidnapped or murdered then where is she.

Karin Janssen was in charge of the investigation and she along with Van der Straaten and his buddy Dennis Jacobs sabotaged this entire case.

I do not like the tone of that article at all.  Is he saying this has already been decided that there is nothing more that could be done, the ALE just did a splendid job and the judges had no choice but to come ot the conclusions they did?

WRONG!!

.

[Anna]

Klaas...also from the civil filing...did you know that there was a statement given by...

Dilma Arends-Geerman

Nice catch - no I didn't notice that.

Well, i am a Dilma follower. Ever since she said cell records showed that Deepak was back at the HI area at 4am. I am not letting that go! lol

Igs,
Ditto!  We used to get more info on her from scubajap but Dilma did say a lot of things early on, didn't she??  Was she just lying or did they alter the phone records with the assistance of certain parties?

.

[sharon]

(snipped)

Joran plays tennis and that requires tight fitting shoes as if there is any play you will get blisters like anything.  His feet do look rather small to me.  I think he was lying about the Size 14 and knows Satish wears a 10.5.  Therefore he, Joran, must NOT wear that size in case footprints of a size 10.5 or shoes are found, he could say not his, too small must belong to Satish or Deepak.
(snipped)

.

In terms of the "sneakers".....

IIRC, the initial story of the 'sneakers' came from a transcript where we were told that a 'single' sneaker, without a partner, was found in Joran's closet during the (ahem) 'search'.

This sneaker had blood on it -- that was not Joran's. (I don't remember if they mentioned testing for Nat's blood -- I think so, and it was negative). They never did tell us 'who's' blood it was.

I think it was 'assumed' to be Joran's sneaker. Or maybe Joran told the police it was his sneaker.

Was it a size 14?

But Joran wears a 10.5?

What if it wasn't Joran's to start with? Then who's?

I don't know how the story evolved to '2 sneakers' -- or where the size was first mentioned.

I won't have time to look for the transcript until tonight -- so if anyone remembers and can find it, please post it -- as it was the original mention of this 'sneaker'.

What if it wasn't Joran's

[San]

O/T -- Authorities confirm a bomb squad and SWAT team sent to a school in Bailey, Colorado, after shots reported, The Associated Press reports.

Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com

[San]

In terms of the "sneakers".....

IIRC, the initial story of the 'sneakers' came from a transcript where we were told that a 'single' sneaker, without a partner, was found in Joran's closet during the (ahem) 'search'.

This sneaker had blood on it -- that was not Joran's. (I don't remember if they mentioned testing for Nat's blood -- I think so, and it was negative). They never did tell us 'who's' blood it was.

I think it was 'assumed' to be Joran's sneaker. Or maybe Joran told the police it was his sneaker.

Was it a size 14?

But Joran wears a 10.5?

What if it wasn't Joran's to start with? Then who's?

I don't know how the story evolved to '2 sneakers' -- or where the size was first mentioned.

I won't have time to look for the transcript until tonight -- so if anyone remembers and can find it, please post it -- as it was the original mention of this 'sneaker'.

What if it wasn't Joran's

It could have been one of his brothers or Deepak (not sure if Deepak wears sneakers), Freddy & Satish.

[sharon]

San said:
It could have been one of his brothers or Deepak (not sure if Deepak wears sneakers), Freddy & Satish.

Exactly San!

Or Koen's or Sander's.

Or maybe it came from the 'gym bag'?

But who's blood? And how did it get on the sneaker? And why was it in Joran's closet?

IMO, that's what Joran is smirking about whenever Greta or anyone else brings up his sneaker.

I don't think it was Joran's sneaker.

jmo
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