Lively Case Discussion #527 9/26 - 9/29/2006

[AZLady]

Hi Monkeys.  I'm taking a break from grading essays.  My eyes are about to bug out, and I've sunk to munching on croutons.  Bleeech...

Anna, I think you can add the judges to your list of corrupted and paid off public officials.  I suspected this before, but with the arrival of the three new judges, I now believe it.  I also believe the Dutch are trying to straighten this mess out, and that's why they have sent the three new judges.  In a country where the corruption runs as deep as Aruba, you need to start by cleaning out from the top down.  The Dutch are attempting to do this by sending out three new judges who were not received with open arms and welcoming hearts, another clue to the real state of affairs on the corrupt little island (he, he..).  However, it is a start.  It also gives us an inkling of why Paulus never made judge (as if we didn't know).  He was and is on the take and this is not appropriate behavior for a judge--go figure.  The new judges had best watch their backs.  They are working in a very evil and corrupt environment where some powerful people will try to bring them into the fold.  I hope they are strong and uncorruptible.

[Tylergal]

My power will be off tonight for "demolition and reconstruction," for a while.

Will someone try to transcribe Nancy & Greta?  I am anxious to see how Greta will handle Beth's situation.  Greta ain't great but I am glad she is having Beth on.

[SunFreak2]

At Arashi beach, Deepak stops the car and gets out to relieve himself, then drives on to the lighthouse.  Everyone in the car is awake when he gets out (D 6/11, 6/30)  

Natalee falls asleep before they arrive at the lighthouse (S 6/24)

At the lighthouse, Deepak sees that Joran and Natalee are kissing, and gives Satish a look asking, what should I do. Satish tells him in Dutch he should keep driving.  Deepak sees two vehicles parked at the lighthouse, a green jeep and white car (D 6/9, D 6/11)

At the lighthouse, Satish sees that Natalee is lying asleep on Joran's lap.  Deepak asks if Natalee wants to see the lighthouse, Joran says he doesn't think so. Joran wakes up Natalee and askes her if she is staying at the HI.  She says yes, and Joran tells Deepak he should drive to the the HI to drop her off (S 6/11, 6/24).

At they are leaving the lighthouse Joran says that Natalee has fallen asleep. Deepak asks how that is possible, and tells Joran to wake her up to ask her where she is staying, so he can take her back to her hotel.  1-2 minutes later Joran tells Deepak she is staying at the HI (D 6/9, 6/11)

How ridiculous - J2K tell 3 different versions of when Natalee fell asleep (went unconscious).   FYI, on the Google Earth satellite map it is only 0.95 miles to the lighthouse from the blacktop where Deepak relieved himself.

[San]

My power will be off tonight for "demolition and reconstruction," for a while.

Will someone try to transcribe Nancy & Greta?  I am anxious to see how Greta will handle Beth's situation.  Greta ain't great but I am glad she is having Beth on.

I will try and transcribe for you tonight Tyler

[AZLady]

I read these statements and can’t help but think back to the Greta interview.  Just what did she find believable about this mutant?  Was it the way his eyes darted side to side as he put together his answers?  Was it the lovely red flush that would consume his face each time a question made him nervous?  Was it the charming way he contradicted everything he had said in the past?  Or, was it simply that Joe Taco would be picking up the check for dinner later that night?

I still just don’t get it!

One answer.  It starts with a D.

Dinner?
or
Depravity?  Disgraceful?  Debauched?  Deluded?  Depraved?

[AZLady]

I read back a bit and have a question.  Where did the quote about a Dr. Viana come from?  In reading the provided link, it seems obvious that Dr. Viana is a psychiatrist on Aruba.  What's his link in this?

[SunFreak2]

Anna, I think you can add the judges to your list of corrupted and paid off public officials.  I suspected this before, but with the arrival of the three new judges, I now believe it.  I also believe the Dutch are trying to straighten this mess out, and that's why they have sent the three new judges.

I remember reading that they were somewhat desperate fro judges in the Netherlands Antilles.  I think that is why Paulus was admitted to the judge-in-training program.

This is what I have on the new judges.

<quote>
On 9-9-05 it was announced there will be 5 new DUTCH judges joining the common Court of Justice of the NETHERLAND ANTILLES and ARUBA in the future. Their names are:

- Mr. F. M. Wieland, vice-president district court in Groningen
- Mr. C. van den Noort, judge district court in Groningen
- Mr. P. A. H. Lemaire, judge district court in Arnhem (ARNHEM, HOLLAND is where Prime Suspect J. SLOOT was born)
- Mr. R. Hoekstra, judge district court in Rotterdam
- Mr. W. P. M. ter Berg, vice-president district court in Middelburg

In addition the DUTCH minister of justice proposes Mr. P. W. van Schendel as a deputy judge at the court</quote.>

I'm not sure which of these judges were sent to Aruba, though.

[Kimmy53]

O/T

What the hell is this world coming to?  A 53 year old man walks into a school in broad daylight and singles out the girls he wants and then makes everyone else leave.  I hate the cops didn't get the first shot at the creep.

Is there an answer to this senseless violence we see in the news daily?  Firing squad?  Public hanging?  Drawn and quartered?

Yes - all of the above.  We as a society are being to soft on these POS's that are terrorizing us and our children.  There is more emphasis on being fair to the criminal than to have compassion for the victim.  The bleeding hearts say "inhumane treatment" when criminals are punished.  Inhumane my ass!!!  Let's deter some of this craziness!!!!

[Anna]

.
I finally got back on forum.

O/T The Sheriff seemed almost apologetic that they had  to storm the room.  I understand the taking of any life is a tragedy but I also hate that this man at the school was in control of the situation and they waited until he fired first.

When someone behaves like a mad dog and does things like this to our children, they lose all rights in my opinion and any and all steps should be taken to stop them and early on before they have time to kill people.

All consideration to saving the lives of the hostages and none for the hostage taker as he just resigned from the human race with these actions.  The assault was "sexual in nature" so now we have middle-aged men attacking high school girls for sexual purposes in some kind of suicidal raid on a school.

Sometimes the world is just too crazy to understand.  At least for me it is.

[SunFreak2]

I read back a bit and have a question.  Where did the quote about a Dr. Viana come from?  In reading the provided link, it seems obvious that Dr. Viana is a psychiatrist on Aruba.  What's his link in this?

Dr Viana is Ferdinando Viana's father. Nando is a friend of Joran who was present during the date rape of Karen Martina.

Personally, I think Dr Viana is not an MD. Here i the States, Integrated Medicine is practiced by chiropractors and Doctors of Osteopathy.  DO's can practice traditional Western medicine or a combination of traditional & nontraditional (holistic).  Chiropractors are schooled in Osteopathic medicine and most "integrate" holistic medicine in their practice.

[AZLady]

I read back a bit and have a question.  Where did the quote about a Dr. Viana come from?  In reading the provided link, it seems obvious that Dr. Viana is a psychiatrist on Aruba.  What's his link in this?

Dr Viana is Ferdinando Viana's father. Nando is a friend of Joran who was present during the date rape of Karen Martina.

Personally, I think Dr Viana is not an MD. Here i the States, Integrated Medicine is practiced by chiropractors and Doctors of Osteopathy.  DO's can practice traditional Western medicine or a combination of traditional & nontraditional (holistic).  Chiropractors are schooled in Osteopathic medicine and most "integrate" holistic medicine in their practice.

SunFreak, if you read the postings from Charles Croes on the BBS, he implies that Viana is a psychiatrist or psychologist.  He refers to him "listening" to his patients.  Other references also that lead me to believe he's a shrink.

[AZLady]

Anyway, this just shows one more friend of Joran's, Dr. Viana's son, who is also a party to the rapes.  Charles Croes says that Viana is like a brother to him.  That's a pretty close relationship to claim.  Oh, but I forgot, everyone knows everyone on this island, except when they know no one.

[Anna]

.
Shizaru,

I get upset when I read what was in the statements stated sort of like a fact as in your timeline.

I understand that the notation at the end means that it came from the statement of this or that suspect but it still is upsetting to read it like it really happened.  We have only their word for it and I seriously doubt 90 percent of their story.  Don't think Natalee yelled any boy's name out the window for example.  That's why Deepak claims he forgot it.  He lied.

They all lie.  And then lie some more.  

All those are just allegations by the lying suspects and while the notation at the end is the source, some how it doesn't seem right that their statements are included as though it actually happened.

You have really worked hard on this and have the patience of a Saint to break it all down like this complete with the maps and everything but I just get upset reading what they claimed right along with things that we have reason to believe actually did happen.  
As Sunfreak says, it is very odd that a person falls asleep three times like that in such a short time.  I think Natalee was out of it for that entire time and did not wake up at all.

Just my thoughts on the part where the suspects statements are included.

Wish there was some way to designate this is a statement by a proven liar.

.

.

[klaasend]

Klassaend... do you happen to have the Arubagirl post saved where she talks about Joran killing his dog... I am trying to find out the date that was posted

Shizaru - I don't have screen shots of posts.  What I did was write down several posts of NATIVELINGO from one night last summer.  If we ever get our archives back I can capture the actual posts.

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm    
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

[Anna]

I hope everyone read the Front Page post on Aruba being one of the only countries in the world with NO LAWS against CORRUPTION.  None.  Ranks behind Nigeria and other third world countries in this regard.

Also no compulsory school attendance laws.  But the corruption might as well be deemed legal if there are NO LAWS against it.  No wonder the island if so rife with it!  It's legal!!!

[AZLady]

Here is the listing in Aruba Chamber of Commerce regarding "Dr" Viana's business.  Natural healing, apparently.  The company is new and only in business since 2005.  Interesting that Viana's wife is American.  

Appearing in the Trade Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 31 MAY 2005 under serial number 33445.0 is the company with the trade name:
 
 
VIANA NATURAL HEALING CENTER  
 
Business address KIBAIMA 7, SANTA CRUZ  
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY  
Name of the company  VIANA NATURAL HEALING CENTER N.V.  
Statutory seat  ARUBA  
Date of incorporation  30 MAY 2005  
     
Authorized capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 50,000.00  
Issued capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00  
Paid up capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00  
Fiscal year  01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER  
   
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:  
 
VIANA, CARLOS MANUEL;  
Residing in  KIBAIMA 7, SANTA CRUZ, ARUBA  
Born in  COSTA RICA, SAN JOSE on 16 NOVEMBER 1948  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR  
Effective  30 MAY 2005  
Authority  FULL  
   
VIANA-LIMPERT, PHYLLIS JEAN;  
Residing in  KIBAIMA 7, SANTA CRUZ, ARUBA  
Born in  U.S.A., MARYLAND on 9 APRIL 1955  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  PROXY  
Effective  30 JUNE 2005  
Authority  FULL  
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY  
 
1. DE GROOT-, KLEIN- EN AGENTURENHANDEL IN HOMEOPATISCHE- NATUURLIJKE GEZONDHEIDSPRODUCTEN, VITAMINEN EN VOEDINGSSUPPLEMENTEN;
2. HET EXPLOITEREN VAN EEN GEZONDHEIDSCENTRUM DAT GEZONDHEIDSBEHANDELINGEN VERZORGT WAARONDER INBEGREPEN HET DOEN VAN MASSAGES, SCHOONHEIDSBEHANDELINGEN EN GEZONDHEIDSTHERAPIEEN;
3. HET ORGANISEREN VAN CURSUSSEN, OPLEIDING, TRAININGEN, LEZINGEN, WOKSHOPS, RADIOPROGRAMMA'S OP HET GEBIED VAN FITNESS, GEZONDHEID EN DE WETENSCHAP VAN HET GEBRUIK VAN NATUURLIJKE GENEESMIDDELEN, ALSMEDE HET UITGEVEN VAN PUBLICATIES OVER VORENVERMELDE ONDERWERPEN;
4. HET BEVORDEREN VAN MEDISCH TOERISME, WAARONDER BEGREPEN HET VERZORGEN VAN HUISVESTING, VOEDING EN TRANSPORT;
5. HET VERKRIJGEN, BEZITTEN, VERVREEMDEN, BEHEREN EN ONTWIKKELEN, VERHUREN, VERPACHTEN, VERHYPOTHEKEREN OF IN HET ALGEMEEN BEZWAREN VAN REGISTERGOEDEREN EN/OF ENIG RECHT OP OF BELANG IN REGISTERGOEDEREN.  
   
Only valid if accordingly signed by the Chamber of Commerce & Industry Aruba - J.E. Irausquin Blvd.10, Oranjestad, Aruba.

[klaasend]

I hope everyone read the Front Page post on Aruba being one of the only countries in the world with NO LAWS against CORRUPTION.  None.  Ranks behind Nigeria and other third world countries in this regard.

Also no compulsory school attendance laws.  But the corruption might as well be deemed legal if there are NO LAWS against it.  No wonder the island if so rife with it!  It's legal!!!

It's a very telling article but more importantly, do you like the award I created??  

[Anna]

I have seen Guido's father referred to in the local newspapers as Dr. "Buschi" Wever.  I wonder if this is a PhD or what kind of doctor he might be.

Does anyone know?


.

[Shizaru]

At Arashi beach, Deepak stops the car and gets out to relieve himself, then drives on to the lighthouse.  Everyone in the car is awake when he gets out (D 6/11, 6/30)  

Natalee falls asleep before they arrive at the lighthouse (S 6/24)

At the lighthouse, Deepak sees that Joran and Natalee are kissing, and gives Satish a look asking, what should I do. Satish tells him in Dutch he should keep driving.  Deepak sees two vehicles parked at the lighthouse, a green jeep and white car (D 6/9, D 6/11)

At the lighthouse, Satish sees that Natalee is lying asleep on Joran's lap.  Deepak asks if Natalee wants to see the lighthouse, Joran says he doesn't think so. Joran wakes up Natalee and askes her if she is staying at the HI.  She says yes, and Joran tells Deepak he should drive to the the HI to drop her off (S 6/11, 6/24).

At they are leaving the lighthouse Joran says that Natalee has fallen asleep. Deepak asks how that is possible, and tells Joran to wake her up to ask her where she is staying, so he can take her back to her hotel.  1-2 minutes later Joran tells Deepak she is staying at the HI (D 6/9, 6/11)

How ridiculous - J2K tell 3 different versions of when Natalee fell asleep (went unconscious).   FYI, on the Google Earth satellite map it is only 0.95 miles to the lighthouse from the blacktop where Deepak relieved himself.

And also, Satish has given 2 versions...  Altho in his most recent statements Satish said she was alseep at the lighthouse, in his 5/31 statement Satish said:

When we arrived at the Lighthouse, I asked my brother if Joran and the girl would get out of the car to see the sharks. I told my brother that Joran and the little girl were kissing and that they probably would not leave the car.

So this entry:

At the lighthouse, Satish sees that Natalee is lying asleep on Joran's lap

Should read:

At the lighthouse, Satish sees that Natalee is lying asleep on Joran's lap, altho originally he says that Joran and and Natalee were kissing at the lighthouse

I will edit to include this changed detail by Satish

[AZLady]

Below is a babelfish translation of the bottom of the Chamber of Commerce listing.  Notice even someone who promotes himself as a "healer" is involved in tourism!  I think even I underestimated the importance of tourism on this depraved little island.  The "healer" is really in business to bring in MEDICAL TOURISM!

1. THE LARGE -, SMALL - AND AGENTURENHANDEL HOMEOPATISCHE - NATURAL GEZONDHEIDSPRODUCTEN, VITAMINS AND FEEDING SUPPLEMENTS;
2. DEVELOPING GEZONDHEIDSCENTRUM THAT HEALTH TREATMENT LOOKS AFTER AMONG WHICH INCLUDED DOING MASSAGES, BEAUTY TREATMENT AND GEZONDHEIDSTHERAPIEEN;
3. ORGANISING CURSUSSEN, TRAINING, TRAININGS, READINGS, WOKSHOPS, RADIO PROGRAMMES IN THE FIELD OF FITNESS, HEALTH AND THE SCIENCE OF THE USE OF NATURAL MEDICINES, AS WELL AS VORENVERMELDE SUBMIT SPENDING PUBLICATIONS;
4. THE PROMOTION OF MEDICAL TOURISM, AMONG WHICH UNDERSTOOD LOOKING AFTER HOUSING, FEEDING AND TRANSPORT;
5. OBTAINING, HAVING, BECOME ESTRANGED, MANAGE AND DEVELOP, LET, LEASE, VERHYPOTHEKEREN OR IN GENERAL BURDENING REGISTERGOEDEREN AND/OR SOME RIGHT TO OR IMPORTANCE IN REGISTERGOEDEREN.