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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #527 9/26 - 9/29/2006  (Read 118391 times)
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Anna
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« Reply #560 on: September 28, 2006, 03:29:45 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
I hope everyone read the Front Page post on Aruba being one of the only countries in the world with NO LAWS against CORRUPTION.  None.  Ranks behind Nigeria and other third world countries in this regard.

Also no compulsory school attendance laws.  But the corruption might as well be deemed legal if there are NO LAWS against it.  No wonder the island if so rife with it!  It's legal!!!

It's a very telling article but more importantly, do you like the award I created??  Wink



Your award is what caught my eye and inspired me to read the article.  I was shocked at what I read.  But as far as the artwork, I have to say I'd give it a



Great job!
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
klaasend
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« Reply #561 on: September 28, 2006, 03:32:14 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
I hope everyone read the Front Page post on Aruba being one of the only countries in the world with NO LAWS against CORRUPTION.  None.  Ranks behind Nigeria and other third world countries in this regard.

Also no compulsory school attendance laws.  But the corruption might as well be deemed legal if there are NO LAWS against it.  No wonder the island if so rife with it!  It's legal!!!

It's a very telling article but more importantly, do you like the award I created??  Wink



Your award is what caught my eye and inspired me to read the article.  I was shocked at what I read.  But as far as the artwork, I have to say I'd give it a



Great job!

Thank you!  Red and I saw the article in Dutch last night and with hopes that the English version would be up today, I created that "award" last night.  Wink
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AZLady
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« Reply #562 on: September 28, 2006, 03:35:01 PM »

Love the award, Klaas.  I remember I posted some articles last year, around June-July, 2005, showing Aruba's involvement in the Black Market Peso exchange (the drug money/laundering) and the casino involvements in corruption.  At that time I proposed that Aruba had to be incredibly corrupt from the law enforcement to the judiciary for this to be able to happen.  You can't build this in an environment that isn't thoroughly corruptible.  The Aruban posters, and some others, were quite offended by these ideas, saying this had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance and that I should not bad-mouth their beautiful island this way.  Well, it only took them 18 months to figure out how to connect the dots, eh?
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AZLady
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« Reply #563 on: September 28, 2006, 03:37:27 PM »

Do you think they will blame the corruptibility of their officials on the poor education system?  That would be convenient.  While they are at it, they might blame the lack of ethics and moral behavior on their poor education system, too.  How terribly convenient.  


[That's heavy irony for those who don't have the education to recognize it.]
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klaasend
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« Reply #564 on: September 28, 2006, 03:37:37 PM »

Quote from: "AZLady"
Love the award, Klaas.  I remember I posted some articles last year, around June-July, 2005, showing Aruba's involvement in the Black Market Peso exchange (the drug money/laundering) and the casino involvements in corruption.  At that time I proposed that Aruba had to be incredibly corrupt from the law enforcement to the judiciary for this to be able to happen.  You can't build this in an environment that isn't thoroughly corruptible.  The Aruban posters, and some others, were quite offended by these ideas, saying this had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance and that I should not bad-mouth their beautiful island this way.  Well, it only took them 18 months to figure out how to connect the dots, eh?

They may have connected the dots all along but we are paying more attention now to what they themselves are saying about their government.
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AZLady
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« Reply #565 on: September 28, 2006, 03:44:47 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Love the award, Klaas.  I remember I posted some articles last year, around June-July, 2005, showing Aruba's involvement in the Black Market Peso exchange (the drug money/laundering) and the casino involvements in corruption.  At that time I proposed that Aruba had to be incredibly corrupt from the law enforcement to the judiciary for this to be able to happen.  You can't build this in an environment that isn't thoroughly corruptible.  The Aruban posters, and some others, were quite offended by these ideas, saying this had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance and that I should not bad-mouth their beautiful island this way.  Well, it only took them 18 months to figure out how to connect the dots, eh?

They may have connected the dots all along but we are paying more attention now to what they themselves are saying about their government.


Oh, they knew what they were doing back in the 80's and 90's when they created the false passports and moved bales of US money and Columbian pesos through those casinos.  They know what they are doing now with the digital records of gamblers and the offshore banks that take huge deposits, converting them to pesos.  To accomplish this takes mucho payola in the right places--called greasing the wheels.  Keeps the old machine rolling.  They have always known what was going on, but only recently realized it was not just their little secret.  The rest of the world also knows what's going on, and it cannot be denied any longer.  Nel Oduber has done an about face from "I don't know what your talking about" to "Aruba has a problem we need to fix" while spinning his wheels desperately trying to dig himself out of the mud and avoid being covered in slime.
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klaasend
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« Reply #566 on: September 28, 2006, 03:51:00 PM »

Jensen's show in Holland starts in about 30 minutes.  I'll be watching the other sites for transcriptions and comments.  I believe Rammstein at BFN is going to watch it as are many of the Dutch posters on other sites.
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Frijole
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« Reply #567 on: September 28, 2006, 03:53:22 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Jensen's show in Holland starts in about 30 minutes.  I'll be watching the other sites for transcriptions and comments.  I believe Rammstein at BFN is going to watch it as are many of the Dutch posters on other sites.


You rock Klaas!  Just wanted you to know that.  Thanks so much.
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AZLady
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« Reply #568 on: September 28, 2006, 03:53:30 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Jensen's show in Holland starts in about 30 minutes.  I'll be watching the other sites for transcriptions and comments.  I believe Rammstein at BFN is going to watch it as are many of the Dutch posters on other sites.


Klaas, thank you so much.  I'm working, but jumping back to SM every few minutes to check for updates.  I appreciate you bringing in any information you locate for us.
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klaasend
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« Reply #569 on: September 28, 2006, 03:54:58 PM »

Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Jensen's show in Holland starts in about 30 minutes.  I'll be watching the other sites for transcriptions and comments.  I believe Rammstein at BFN is going to watch it as are many of the Dutch posters on other sites.


Klaas, thank you so much.  I'm working, but jumping back to SM every few minutes to check for updates.  I appreciate you bringing in any information you locate for us.

You can count on it.  I'll bring over everything I can. Wink
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Anna
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« Reply #570 on: September 28, 2006, 03:55:36 PM »

.
I knew they were corrupt and on the Dept of Justice and State Dept watch list for all manner of things like money laundering and fraternizing with Latin American drug cartel and mob figures, etc.

What I did NOT know is that it is basically legal to take bribes, etc. because they have no laws governing any of that.  

Never heard of such a place where there are no laws against officials being corrupt and getting rich from their positions.  That is just a basic moral concept that this is wrong and yet they have not addressed it with any legal restrictions at all.

.




Yes, in Aruba it is legal to be corrupt.  Well, it certainly is not illegal at least since there is nothing to prohibit it.  What other basic laws are missing from their system that we do not understand?    Question  Question  Question
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #571 on: September 28, 2006, 04:02:35 PM »

Part of the promo to the show and a comment posted at FOB just now:

There is a first reaction. Someone saw the promo and it looked like Beth was announced as if she is some sort of God.

This person finds that so creepy that she has decided not to watch. She's very disgusted with it.

We might be in for an unwelcome surprise. The interview did not start yet. Let's hope Jensen does his job well.
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AZLady
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« Reply #572 on: September 28, 2006, 04:02:37 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
.
I knew they were corrupt and on the Dept of Justice and State Dept watch list for all manner of things like money laundering and fraternizing with Latin American drug cartel and mob figures, etc.

What I did NOT know is that it is basically legal to take bribes, etc. because they have no laws governing any of that.  

Never heard of such a place where there are no laws against officials being corrupt and getting rich from their positions.  That is just a basic moral concept that this is wrong and yet they have not addressed it with any legal restrictions at all.

.




Yes, in Aruba it is legal to be corrupt.  Well, it certainly is not illegal at least since there is nothing to prohibit it.  What other basic laws are missing from their system that we do not understand?    Question  Question  Question


Anna, a part of a corrupt society is the manipulation of laws that allow them to carry on their business.  The off-shore banking laws, or lack there of, are designed to allow corruption.  The law enforcement system is designed to allow corruption. Aruba was forced by the Dutch to adopt laws controlling money-laundering.  They drug their feet to the point where these were only voted on recently.  Nonetheless, the island of Aruba has NEVER prosecuted anyone for money laundering!  We have read documentation that Aruba is the center of money-laundering for the drug cartel.  Nevertheless, NO ONE has been prosecuted for this.  Gotta be able to prove it, say the Aruban officials, shaking their heads.  

They don't have laws, then nothing can be illegal.  Very simple system.
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Sue
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« Reply #573 on: September 28, 2006, 04:03:29 PM »


I would love to see there bank accounts and the transactions
plus what there salaries are..

Seems to me the Sloots live alittle higher then there means
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AZLady
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« Reply #574 on: September 28, 2006, 04:04:23 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"


We might be in for an unwelcome surprise. The interview did not start yet. Let's hope Jensen does his job well.[/color]


Klaas, what do you mean?  That this interview might go badly for Beth, or that she might be well-accepted by the Dutch?
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AZLady
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« Reply #575 on: September 28, 2006, 04:05:14 PM »

Quote from: "Sue"

I would love to see there bank accounts and the transactions
plus what there salaries are..

Seems to me the Sloots live alittle higher then there means


I agree, Sue.  But the banking laws in Aruba are such that it is very simple to hide your tracks and your income.
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klaasend
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« Reply #576 on: September 28, 2006, 04:05:51 PM »

Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "klaasend"


We might be in for an unwelcome surprise. The interview did not start yet. Let's hope Jensen does his job well.[/color]


Klaas, what do you mean?  That this interview might go badly for Beth, or that she might be well-accepted by the Dutch?

That post came from a sight that hates Beth.  They are affraid Jensen is going to do an honest and friendly interview with Beth.  By doing the job well, means they want Jensen to make fun of Beth.
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Shizaru
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« Reply #577 on: September 28, 2006, 04:06:26 PM »

Quote from: "SunFreak2"
SHIZARU -

Deepak's Route - corrected


Ok, here's how the timeline looks now with the corrected Deepak's Route added- I moved things around a little to make it fit better:



Security video at Diamonds International jewelry store, later shown on Opsporing Verzocht, captures Deepak's vehicle leaving CnCs.. Timestamp on video not publicly known, but unconfirmed message board reports say it was 1:18. Also not publicly known whether vehicle is captured passing the camera more than once, as would be expected if suspect statements about circling the block are accurate.

They pass Natalee's friends on the main road, standing between Royal Plaza mall and the bus stop (J 6/9)

They circle around, passing CnCs again (J 6/9, D 6/9, S 6/9)  

Natalee sees her friends standing at intersection west of Royal Plaza, Satish observes there are about 60 people at the Plaza intersection on both sides of the road.   Joran says to turn right because Natalee wants to speak to her friends (S 6/9)

Instead of passing CnCs again, Deepak turns left toward Choose a Name because he sees polis standing at the corner and he is not wearing a seatbelt (D 6/9)

Natalee shouts "Aruba" to her friends (J 6/9)  

Natalee calls a boy's name, which Deepak can't remember (D 5/31)  

A young man walks up to the car and shouts at her "Are you crazy, get out of the car".  She answers that she will hook up with them later at the hotel and will go with the trio.  The young man doesn't say anything more and Deepak drives off (J 6/9, D 6/9, S 6/11)

Deepak stops the car past the crosswalk and tells Natalee she should go with her friends, she says Deepak's car is beautiful and wants to drive around.  Joran asks if she is sure she wants to drive around with them and she says yes. Deepak drives on. tho he tells Joran he doesn't think it's good that Natalee remains with them, because she is drunk and he doesn't want any problems  (D 5/31, 6/9)

After passing Choose a Name, Deepak circles around, returns to main road and turns right heading toward the Royal Plaza. Deepak intends to leave Natalee with her friends.  (J 6/9, D 6/9, S 6/9)

1:20 am: They pass back thru the Plaza intersection, Natalee's friends are no longer there (J 6/9, D 6/9, S 6/11)    

1:26 am: Keycard for Natalee's room used (Tacopina)

1:30-4:40 am: Laraine and Bruce Rawls sit by the pool talking. They observe many classmates walking back to their rooms but not Natalee (Watson 302).

A security guard at the lighthouse does not see a car going to the lighthouse (Greta)







ROUTE TO BEACH: KALPOE VERSION

Natalee says she wants go to the lighthouse to see sharks.  Joran tells Deepak to drive to the lighthouse (D 6/11, S 6/11)  

When they reach La Cabana, Satish puts in a DVD with a nude scene, Natalee says “Oh my God, what is that”.  Deepak says "Now she'll think we're perverts".  After a few minutes Joran tells Satish “Turn that thing off, she has had enough of it” (D 6/11)

Satish hears Natalee say that her mother is Hitler's sister, that she is from Alabama, and that her parents own a plantation there that has slaves working on it. Joran later tells the Kalpoes that Natalee had asked him if they were his slaves (S 6/11)  

During the drive a white rental car drives alongside Deepak's car for about 5 seconds and Deepak asks, what is up with these men. At that moment Satish looks in back and sees that Joran and Natalee are kissing. The other vehicle turns into the direction of the Holiday Inn as Deepak keeps driving straight (S 6/11, 6/24)

At Arashi beach, Deepak stops the car and gets out to relieve himself, then drives on to the lighthouse.  Everyone in the car is awake when he gets out (D 6/11, 6/30)  

Natalee falls asleep before they arrive at the lighthouse (S 6/24)

At the lighthouse, Deepak sees that Joran and Natalee are kissing, and gives Satish a look asking, what should I do. Satish tells him in Dutch he should keep driving.  Deepak sees two vehicles parked at the lighthouse, a green jeep and white car (D 6/9, D 6/11)

At the lighthouse, Satish sees that Natalee is lying asleep on Joran's lap, altho originally he says that Joran and and Natalee were kissing at the lighthouse.   Deepak asks if Natalee wants to see the lighthouse, Joran says he doesn't think so. Joran wakes up Natalee and askes her if she is staying at the HI.  She says yes, and Joran tells Deepak he should drive to the the HI to drop her off (S 5/31, 6/11, 6/24).

At they are leaving the lighthouse Joran says that Natalee has fallen asleep. Deepak asks how that is possible, and tells Joran to wake her up to ask her where she is staying, so he can take her back to her hotel.  1-2 minutes later Joran tells Deepak she is staying at the HI (D 6/9, 6/11)



ROUTE TO BEACH: JORAN'S VERSION

Joran takes Natalee to his house.  On the way he initiates kissing with Natalee. Natalee asks Joran if Deepak and Satish are his slaves and says that in Alabama we consider black people slaves (Greta, PTL)  

1:40 am: They arrive at Joran's house (J 6/14)

Joran decides not to take her inside because his father and brother are sleeping. Then Natalee says she wants to go to the lighthouse to see sharks. Joran tells Deepak to drive to the lighthouse, but they never go there.  Natalee tells Joran her mother is “Hitler's sister” (Greta, PTL)  

During the drive a white rental car drives alongside Deepak's car for about 5 seconds and Deepak asks, what is up with these men. Then the other vehicle turns into the direction of the Holiday Inn as Deepak keeps driving straight (J 6/9)

Joran asks Natalee if she wants to go back to her hotel, she declines. Joran decides to take her to the beach north of her hotel (Greta, PTL)



During the nighttime hours three fishermen are on the beach north of the Marriott hotel and do not see Joran and Natalee there, nor do they see Deepak's car in the vicinity of the hotel.  Their exact location on the beach is unclear (S 7/3)

1:50 am: In the vicinity of the Marriott hotel, Joran tells Deepak to make a right turn.  Deepak turns onto the side road just north of Marriott hotel, and drives to the end of the road, where Joran tells him to stop.  Deepak does not see anyone else around.  Joran and Natalee both get out of the car on the right side.  Joran tells 2K he will find a way to get home, and will walk Natalee back to the HI.  Joran and Natalee hug and walk off in the direction of the beach, holding each other.  Deepak drives off, stops briefly in front of Marriott hotel while Satish throws their drink containers out the window (J 6/14, D 6/11, D 6/13, D 6/30, S/6/11, S 6/13)
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« Reply #578 on: September 28, 2006, 04:07:18 PM »

Great job Shizaru and Sunfreaks!
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AZLady
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« Reply #579 on: September 28, 2006, 04:11:29 PM »

Thanks, Klaas. That's what I thought, but wanted to be sure.
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