Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #50

[bleachedblack]

I would like to ask a question and see what theories are out there. In what case scenario would dogs possibly be able to have found the traces of chloroform both in the trunk of the car and by the pool? Presuming if I may that what we have heard, that the chloroform is "pure" and not a result of chemicals combining, or from decomposition itself......

I'm so glad you posted this part about the chloroform being pure.  I was so sure I'd read that.  So doesn't that make all the speculation about Casey researching on the computer as to how to mix it up a moot point ? 

chloroform was found by air samples, not cadaver dogs.

I thought they said chloroform was found in the backyard near the pool, how could they find it in air samples? The trunk I could understand though I don't recall hearing that the chloroform was in air samples even there, but I can understand that better as it is a confined space. Dogs hit on decomp in the trunk and the back yard, but chloro was only from air samples in the backyard?

BB in the backyard near the pool is pretty vague. The majority of the back yard is taken up by the pool.

I do not know how the air samples technology really works. The get some air from an area of interest, and collect the vapors, the element are revealed and bingo, cake's done! I guess there is a device that sucks in the air to a chamber, the chamber is vacuum sealed and then the tests are run.

It is called Gasspectoromitery. IIRC and I'm not sure that is the correct spelling.

Chloroform was found in the backyard and the trunk.

So let me try and understand......the actual chloroform was in the soil.  To test for it they withdraw an air sampling of the suspected area, and in that way test for the presence of the chemical. That makes sense, and I have certainly heard of Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. I was hard pressed to understand and thought you were saying originally that the chloroform was existing in gaseous form and that was what was tested. Thanks

[SunnyinTX]

Do you have any idea about his sudden turnaround after Casey's arrest for Murder?  The day of the GJ testimony he is grim, the next, "Caylee is alive, she is will be home by the end of the month!"

Lisa

I know you aren't asking me, but I firmly believe all of this "Caylee is alive" crap is attributable to Baez.   

I agree....the defense HAS to try and create reasonable doubt.....this is the only  way IMO they can even try to....but it is NOT going to work....whatever the LE has it has to be damming...the GJ came back with a true bill for 1st degree murder....

[klaasend]

Does anyone know the date when the gun was taken by LE?  Counting back by at least 3-4 days, what triggered him to suddenly purchase a gun? 

Police Remove Gun From Caylee's Grandfather's Car

Sunday, September 07, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,418161,00.html

Thank you

What happened around the beginning of September that could have "put him over the edge"? 

TES search

[pink angel]

This Blue Star people are talking about- where did this come from? (I didn't read the entire report, as something - kids, husband- always gets in the way). Did the results of the FBI report state that they found chemicals from this product in the air samples? Or did somebody here do a search and found that the ingredients of this Blue Star (cleaner?) matched air samples? Or at least has chloroform in it?  And it's assumed at this point to be the product used to clean the car?

Bluestar is a forensic agent to reveal blood stains.

    
Crime Investigation Tools

BLUESTAR® FORENSIC | HEXAGON OBTI

BLUESTAR® FORENSIC latent bloodstains reagent

tub before and after spraying BluestarBLUESTAR® FORENSIC is a new reagent whose purpose is to reveal blood stains that have been washed out, wiped off or which are invisible to the naked eye. This product is intended for crime investigators.

Based upon chemiluminescence, its unique formula qualifies it as the most effective blood revealer available on the market, for crime scene as well as forensic lab use.

BLUESTAR® FORENSIC does not alter the DNA of the revealed blood which allows for its subsequent genotyping. It is also compatible with ABO typing. Furthermore, it is safer and easier to prepare an

OK..  well,...  so nobody is using this except for LE, and therefore the reason for talking about it is just to suggest LE is able to find blood that has been otherwise "cleaned up".

We're not suggesting it was used for any other purpose, correct?

Just checking.. 

Page 2 (1st paragraph re: air samples taken):

“An MSDS sheet, listing the ingredients of BlueStar, was obtained and evaluated by a chemist ... His conclusion was that the components of the product could not have contributed to the chemical signature obtained in these analyses.”


Page 8 (1st paragraph, re: estimating post-mortem interval from inorganic elements):

“The low concentration of sodium also indicates almost no contribution to the sample from the BlueStar product.”


It was mentioned in regards to the air sample testing, so that it could ruled out as altering the samples based on the chemicals it's made up of.
That's my take of it.

In other words it doesn't contain clororform etc...

[SunnyinTX]

Hi everyone ! 
i'm new here & just wanted to post alittle something for sweet little Caylee.

Love, Prayers & A Flower for Caylee

hi Johnielee...Welcome to SM

[shasta]

I know I am way behind and trying to play catch up.  RE: the gun, I was thinking that he didn't park his car/truck in the garage, but in the drive, thus not in the house.

People keep commenting about the Anthony's not having any friends backing them up.  At first their house was overflowing with people.  I think they stopped coming around because of all the publicity surrounding the family.  (or the release of information).  We don't know if they call every day.  And the Anthony's leave for interviews, etc.  Please don't pounce on me, I in no way support these people. Also maybe they can't accept the truth of Caylee's death.  In their mind a dead body might have been in the trunk, but not Caylee's. With Casey's bizarre behavior, "what have you done", they might have thought any number of things.   

I have a comment about Casey.  I get the impression that before she had Caylee that she was a shy, loner type.  Didn't party, etc.  With this in mind I think her mental condition resulted from PPD that was left unchecked.  It was after she gave birth that all the manic behavior began.  I know the forum has spoken about her being a psysiopath.  Bipolar Mania can produce a lot of similar behaviors.  I had to live with someone who had this condition.  She would lie through her teeth, lived in a different reality than me.  She would become very sexually uninhibited, use alcohol or street drugs.  Although she didn't steal she could convince people to give her stuff or do things for her.  I think the Anthony's let her get away with all the crap because they knew she was mentally ill, thus not responsible.  When Casey began to pull away and possibly threaten taking Caylee, this is when I think they quit making excuses for her. 

Excuse the rambling, just saying....

[SunnyinTX]

Welcome tevye and Johnielee

Thanks, Klass! Just to show I'm in the spirit..... (shouldn't those sunglasses be white?)

Hi Tevya....I missed waving to you!

[littleone]

Those who "cry for help", and those who lie, are often found dead from suicide. Yes...the Anthony's aren't known for telling the truth. But some cries for help should be taken seriously. Those of use who have witnessed this first hand, knows exactly what I'm saying.

Please lets NOT forget this: No matter what we think of George, Cindy, and Lee. Their lies, cover ups, obstruction of justice, receiving "Blood money", and even IF they helped dispose of the body ....THEY DID NOT KILL, nor were they responsible for Caylee's death. What they did, or are doing now is moot, other than helping delay of the real truth of what really happened to little Caylee. Yes, if this is true...( and I think some is) this would be despicable, and no doubt criminal. But they DID not murder anyone....their just bad people.

And some of us who have experienced this first hand (twice) have never heard the cry for help. Most of the time when people cry out for help or threaten suicide they  don't actually follow through.  It is the ones who don't cry for help that follow through.

And even if the Anthony's didnt KILL Caylee- what they have done is criminal.  And i for one will never condone their behaviour. If they have done any or all of the things you posted above-they belong in jail. Plain and simple. You just cannot explain away their actions.

I for one am thankful that the Anthony's are a rare breed. I can't imagine grandparents doing the things these "people" have done.

[klaasend]

http://www.wftv.com/news/17781526/detail.html

"Do-It-Yourself" Chloroform Instructional Websites Found On Casey's Computer

POSTED: 4:42 pm EDT October 22, 2008
UPDATED: 12:44 pm EDT October 23, 2008


ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Did Casey Anthony kill her own daughter with chloroform? Eyewitness News has learned someone was looking up the recipe to cook up the chemical on Casey's home computer around the same time Caylee disappeared.

There was evidence of high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car and sheriff's investigators found that someone on Casey Anthony's computer was researching not where to buy chloroform, but how to make it yourself, which can be done easily.

Eyewitness News legal analyst Bill Sheaffer says, if you were up to no good, there would be an advantage to making it as opposed to buying it.

When you Google "how do you make chloroform," more than a million websites are listed with instructions. On the first one, page one had an explicit warning about chloroform's dangers, calling the chemical extremely dangerous and unpredictable and warning never to allow children to come near chloroform.

FBI lab tests show high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car, where investigators say Caylee's body had been. And there was a mysterious stain in the trunk along with Caylee's hairs and dirt.

"Another piece of evidence in the circumstantial chain," Sheaffer said.

Sheaffer said it's significant because, if Casey made the chloroform as opposed to buying it, she could have been trying to cover her tracks. Buying it would have generated some sort of record.

"This way certainly, she could argue, 'Alright, I was interested in looking into how to make chloroform, but I never did.' Or, 'That's why you smelled chloroform in the trunk area, because I was experimenting in making it,'" Sheaffer said.

Record or not, the jury would be faced with a compromising question for Casey.

"Why would you need to make chloroform. For what purpose?" Sheaffer questioned.

Last week, the Orange County grand jury heard from the FBI and one of the sheriff's computer investigators and that information is going to be released to the public very soon.


NOTE:  NOTHING ABOUT THE BACKYARD, BUT I'M STILL SEARCHING

[dottie]

dottie wrote;

Can you imagine that anyone in the state of Florida or anywhere else for that matter would hire her to be a nurse now...i'd say she has severly burned her bridges.

Being lawfully convicted of a crime is one thing..... but Cindy has not been.It always amazes me on just how high a pedestal nurses (among a few others) are placed......the height is dizzying.

Bleachedblack, Being a nurse was really not the point of this statement.  I would have said the same thing if she were a teacher for example or whatever.  My point being that I think she has done herself a great injustice by her actions in the media and I would think that she would have a hard time getting employment.  Employers do not look for people with so much baggage, whether it is fair or not, and her actions are a great indicater of her personality. JMO as you are welcome to yours.

To all nurses on SM I in no way meant any disrespect to you or your profession....and I do not hold you any higher on a pedestal than I would any other respectful law abiding citizen.

[Colt45cal]

[/quote]So let me try and understand......the actual chloroform was in the soil.  To test for it they withdraw an air sampling of the suspected area, and in that way test for the presence of the chemical. That makes sense, and I have certainly heard of Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. I was hard pressed to understand and thought you were saying originally that the chloroform was existing in gaseous form and that was what was tested. Thanks [/quote]

Even in a small back yard, how would they know which area the soil should be colected from for testing? I find it hard to believe that they could use a "Sniffer" in the yard to detect the presence of Chloroform.

[lula]

Those who "cry for help", and those who lie, are often found dead from suicide. Yes...the Anthony's aren't known for telling the truth. But some cries for help should be taken seriously. Those of use who have witnessed this first hand, knows exactly what I'm saying.

Please lets NOT forget this: No matter what we think of George, Cindy, and Lee. Their lies, cover ups, obstruction of justice, receiving "Blood money", and even IF they helped dispose of the body ....THEY DID NOT KILL, nor were they responsible for Caylee's death. What they did, or are doing now is moot, other than helping delay of the real truth of what really happened to little Caylee. Yes, if this is true...( and I think some is) this would be despicable, and no doubt criminal. But they DID not murder anyone....their just bad people.

People were questioning why George would confide in you. The Anthonys don't seem to have friends. Notice also George confiding in the tow yard guy about Casey not letting him see his grandaughter. Why would he reveal to a total stranger such a personal tidbit? People have to vent to relieve stress and I think George was under tremendous stress. You were a kind contact. There is so much LE knows that we don't. If George easily opened up to strangers I would think he opened up to LE, that's why he was called to the grand jury.

[Lala'sMom]

Keep in mind that FBI anaylsis reported that under scrutiny of a labratory test termed LIBS, page 24 of FBI report that all the samples submitted for testing from the carpet in the trunk of the car, the results were ABOVE...OVER...and BEYOND the control smaples that were used for comparison.  That means that decomp was not just in trace amounts but very definitely there as compared to the control samples tested.

[anothermonkey]

OK..  well,...  so nobody is using this except for LE, and therefore the reason for talking about it is just to suggest LE is able to find blood that has been otherwise "cleaned up".

We're not suggesting it was used for any other purpose, correct?

Just checking.. 

Page 2 (1st paragraph re: air samples taken):

“An MSDS sheet, listing the ingredients of BlueStar, was obtained and evaluated by a chemist ... His conclusion was that the components of the product could not have contributed to the chemical signature obtained in these analyses.”


Page 8 (1st paragraph, re: estimating post-mortem interval from inorganic elements):

“The low concentration of sodium also indicates almost no contribution to the sample from the BlueStar product.”


It was mentioned in regards to the air sample testing, so that it could ruled out as altering the samples based on the chemicals it's made up of.
That's my take of it.

In other words it doesn't contain clororform etc...

Ok. I appreciate you clearing that up for me.    Thanks!

[sharon]

FROM THE MEDIA REPORTS THREAD

Misha
According to our sources, lab tests have been ongoing on as recently as last week to "triple check" that evidence."

"Investigators say they're confident those tests will provide "iron clad proof" that Caylee's body was in the trunk of the car, how her body was positioned, and that strands of her hair fell out after she died."

"Now they tell WESH 2 they're close to determining the date someone researched chloroform on Casey's computer before Caylee's disappearance."
Two things are missing:  definite motive and criminal intent for how Caylee's body got in the trunk.

http://www.wesh.com/video/17561343/index.html

Any guesses on how they could determine the position of the body? If they can determine the position of the body, that means that Caylee wasn't placed inside a container, then put into the trunk, she was just laid inside. Hmmmm

IMO, sweet Caylee expired in the trunk  It is very hot here and it would not take much time. Who knows how long it took for KC to check in on her. Chloroform may have helped. That would explain an outline of her position.

IMO, she was probably contained in something afterwards. I veer towards cooler or plastic container --something that wouldn't look out of place. We're a HUGE 'tailgating' state. We tailgate for anything and everything -- sports, concerts, sunsets, events, picnics.

As soulless as KC is -- I don't think she would have been able to look at or handle her deceased daughter, so I do speculate there was containment and concealment.

I posted that excerpt because it seems to indicate that the chloroform searches were b4 the disappearance.

Sorry if this is too old -- I did not want to ignore Boo's response.

[Lala'sMom]

There is nothing about the backyard that is "official". I remember asking this question about the chloroform when Casey was charged with murder.  Never got a straight answer because it was only being reported by one of the local news websites.  Maybe WESH or channel 9.  I don't know now as I could never find anything conclusive on it either.

[Hudsunn]

Well, if you really stop and think about it, the disposal of the body was pretty darned good.  It has not been found yet and the only forensic evidence is very slight, which indicates a good clean up. 

[Rob]

So let me try and understand......the actual chloroform was in the soil.  To test for it they withdraw an air sampling of the suspected area, and in that way test for the presence of the chemical. That makes sense, and I have certainly heard of Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. I was hard pressed to understand and thought you were saying originally that the chloroform was existing in gaseous form and that was what was tested. Thanks

they way I understood it, it had to be liquid and just poured on the surface and seeped down... maybe I misunderstood it...

The gaseous form would have been vapors that were detected in the samples. So many parts per million = initial milliliters used. When the concentration is high enough it leads to the belief it was pure and not a cocktail.

We need that article again to look it over.

[klaasend]

I don't remember reading anything about chloroform being found in the backyard, only in the trunk.

[Colt45cal]

Those who "cry for help", and those who lie, are often found dead from suicide. Yes...the Anthony's aren't known for telling the truth. But some cries for help should be taken seriously. Those of use who have witnessed this first hand, knows exactly what I'm saying.

Please lets NOT forget this: No matter what we think of George, Cindy, and Lee. Their lies, cover ups, obstruction of justice, receiving "Blood money", and even IF they helped dispose of the body ....THEY DID NOT KILL, nor were they responsible for Caylee's death. What they did, or are doing now is moot, other than helping delay of the real truth of what really happened to little Caylee. Yes, if this is true...( and I think some is) this would be despicable, and no doubt criminal. But they DID not murder anyone....their just bad people.

And some of us who have experienced this first hand (twice) have never heard the cry for help. Most of the time when people cry out for help or threaten suicide they  don't actually follow through.  It is the ones who don't cry for help that follow through.

And even if the Anthony's didnt KILL Caylee- what they have done is criminal.  And i for one will never condone their behaviour. If they have done any or all of the things you posted above-they belong in jail. Plain and simple. You just cannot explain away their actions.

I for one am thankful that the Anthony's are a rare breed. I can't imagine grandparents doing the things these "people" have done.

And this...I agree with you 100%  However...those who cry for help, and no one listens.....have killed themselves.