Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #50

[mytime]

Colt, I too know someone who met the Anthony's when Caylee first went missing.  She helped on 2 different occasions.  Her heart broke for them.  I do not think you have an agenda, I think you are just a kind man.

Rob, I think you have alot experience and are well intended.  But do you think that maybe your heart has been hardened by all you have seen and heard.  This is no way meant to offend you.  My dad was in LE for 45 years and I have seen how and why he can seem so cold.  Also, my sister is too.  She is a nurse and she can be so matter of fact about things.  One night I called her and she said "let me call you back, I have to bring a dead baby to the morgue."  She said it like it was nothing!!!!  Just wondering?

[KarmaRoundUp]

I have a question hopefully someone can answer.
If they only had Caylee's DNA,and IF Lee was the father,could they tell that just from Caylee's DNA?

Absolutely.  As said by Haden, and many others, the father is known by LE.  Who knows.

Thank you Russ.

[BTgirl]

Can someone please post the link to Murt? I seem to have lost it TYIA

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/murtwitnessone-live

I also flipped the image:


Sure looks like a sock monkey to me!

Mrs. Sock Monkey Expert weighing in here. 

To me that looks like the fabric used in that line of sock monkey items carried by Target stores.

[Today]

Posted in MURT's chat but nobody can find out if true yet:

06:21 ustreamer-77644 : I just read somewhere that there is polics cars and a black suv on BC road in there area of the witness sighting

Klaas,
I am listening(web address on Murt's site, )but not hearing anything about this.  Have you heard anything?

right after this someone on Murt's said it was a domestic, a men left with his child

[littleone]

Ok...here is my thoughts (flame suit on), and Rob...please take it easy on me.

Casey is a coward. Cowards lie. Casey is very insecure, and this shows in the way she acts. She is always looking/seeking acceptance from here peers. Her many sexual encounters help bolster her self worth. In many of the pictures, or personal videos, it seem that she's screaming "Look at me". Even with pictures taken with Caylee, she wants to be the one noticed. I believe her friends when they say she's like a "chameleon". This is her way of forming acceptance with those around her.

Did she kill, with premeditation? No, I don't think so. Was it an accident? Again, no. Unfortunate accidents do happen, without the fault of another. Was it gross negligence on Casey's part that Caylee died? 100% for sure.

I come to this opinion, because Casey's a coward, and I don't think this coward could kill her child on purpose. I think she did something really stupid, that caused the death of Caylee. The reason she didn't just call 911 at the time of Caylee's death? Once again, because she's a coward. And how would her friends think about her once they find out that her negligence caused her daughters death? Her insecurities would not allow this. The thought of others thinking badly of her, was far more important than the now dead Caylee. The mother/daughter bond never really happened, and I think Cyndi was more of a mother to Caylee, than Casey was. Because of this non bonding  between Casey and Caylee, it made the disposing of Caylee body, and the cover up on what really happened to her, just that much easier for her. Casey is a coward without a conscience. And she not very bright, and her lies proves this point.

Now for the Chloroform. Was it used against Caylee? In my opinion...No, it was not. Chloroform as we have learned (and I have known), is a great solvent and cleaner. It's been stated, that the trunk was very well cleaned. Cleaned by someone knowledgeable? A Homicide Investigator (George?) would certainly know what CSI would be looking for in the back of the trunk. A lay person would have used household cleaners in the trunk area. However, someone with much more experience, would use something much more effective....Chloroform. This is why Chloroform was found in the trunk. I've never seen Chloroform in any hardware stores, so I guess someone in the Anthony's home had to Google the recipe. The time line (if known), will be most important in determining if the searches for Chloroform was before, or after Caylee's death.

Well there you go monkey's...another one of my opinions. I'm ready to be shoved under the bus (not the first time this has happened to me here)

Some of it just doesn't work for me. You have to look at the evidence. There is evidence that SOMEONE in that house was on the puter searching how to make chloroform, missing children and escort services. I believe she planned this out. I believe that she killed Caylee in anger  and she used the chloroform to do it. i think that the whole family is guilty of something.

It wouldn't surprise me at ALL if Casey doesn't throw George under the bus before this is all over.  And there is always Casey joining the PTSD group. 

~just my opinion.

[PJ]

I have has this on my mind since Casey was indicted.

Please feel free to agree or disagree, but I'll only reply to the people who agree - just kidding 

When Casey was initially charged and thrown in the slammer, she was charged with child neglect and lying to authorities.

The bond was set at $500,200. That is not the type of bond associated with child neglect or lying to authorities. That would have been 50k and she would have posted 5000 dollars and been out.

The reality was she was being held on second degree homicide.[/b] It just could not be proven at that time because there was no body. They all know Caylee was dead, but how. Was it an accident or a murder?

I have said that this was all intentional and I *think* I was the first to make that determination. I wasn't going out on a limb and making a bold statement. I just go where the facts take me, and this was easy to see. I clearly said that Casey killed her daughter and this was no accident.

When Casey was indicted she received a capital indictment, we all know that. That means that Casey is facing the death penalty should the jury or judge convict her and the jury or judge hand down the ultimate punishment.

With her capital / murder one indictment she is in jail and no amount of money or bond will spring her. Murder one cases do not get bond to my knowledge and I can not remember the last time I saw a case where it happened.

While Casey was out on bond, I felt that she should have been in jail the entire time and not out and about jerking everyone's chain.

With the return of the indictment the grand jury agreed with me, and saw and heard evidence that Casey killed her daughter. Intentionally.

She should have never been out in the first place.

No need to reply to me Rob.  I do agree with you 100% but I came to this conclusion way AFTER you did.  I'm not nearly as insightful right off the bat but now all the facts do point me in the same direction as you came to well before me.  I always look forward to your posts.

pj

[SweetMorgan]

Just got off the phone with Des- she sends her love.

awwww  I miss her!

I miss her too!   

[Rob]

Colt, I too know someone who met the Anthony's when Caylee first went missing.  She helped on 2 different occasions.  Her heart broke for them.  I do not think you have an agenda, I think you are just a kind man.

Rob, I think you have alot experience and are well intended.  But do you think that maybe your heart has been hardened by all you have seen and heard.  This is no way meant to offend you.  My dad was in LE for 45 years and I have seen how and why he can seem so cold.  Also, my sister is too.  She is a nurse and she can be so matter of fact about things.  One night I called her and she said "let me call you back, I have to bring a dead baby to the morgue."  She said it like it was nothing!!!!  Just wondering?

no offense taken.. I just don't live in a world of lollypops and gum drops..

I live in a world where people kill their kids - 5 a day.

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Karma

Dr. Baden did specify that forensic DNA testing of the strands of hair could determine the paternity but ... according to the released report ... only Mitochondrial DNA testing was conducted.  Mitochondrial DNA testing  does not reveal anything about the paternity ...

However ... if DNA testing went further than Mitochondrial ... the paternity could be confirmed but ... it is my understanding ... the father's DNA would be required.  Consider the Lee Anthony's DNA was only taken not even a couple of weeks ago ...

Janet

+++++++++

Do we know for sure if further testing was or wasn't conducted down the line?  I just keep thinking that just because only the mitochondrial DNA results were released, that does not mean that they weren't the only ones ever performed.   Considering that I'm sure they had plenty of Caylee's hair from the hairbrush collected at the Anthony home as well as DNA on her toothbrush and the sample that was taken way back when they tried to determine if JG was her father, I feel pretty sure that there was much more testing conducted - we just don't know about it.

There's lots we don't know about, so let ole lamebrain Baez think he's got it made, the big dork!

Karma ... I read the released forensic report and ... ONLY mitochondrial DNA testing was done on the strands of hair ... mitochondrial DNA testing that does not reveal paternity.

Lee Anthony's DNA was just taken in the past couple of weeks.  According to my know-it-all niece (LOL) who possess a science degree Lee Anthony's DNA would be required to confirm or exclude paternity through further DNA testing.

Yet ... Leonard Padilla was speculating in the beginning of September that Lee Anthony could possibly be Caylee father while describing mitochondrial DNA.  I do not get it.

Other than Leonard Padilla's words in the following article and ... the dialogue on  internet forums ... as far as I know ... no other media/ official/ family source has ever touched this issue.

Without any credible source ... LE release/Family ... which reveals that Caylee Marie was the result of an incestuous relationship between Lee and Casey ... out of respect for Caylee Marie I will not go there. 
Janet

+++++++

Casey Anthony's Father To Testify Against Her In Front Of Grand Jury
POSTED: 5:56 pm EDT October 9, 2008
UPDATED: 6:29 pm EDT October 9, 2008

George and Cindy Anthony voluntarily gave up DNA samples this week so investigators could scientifically exclude either of them as the source of the hair and stain in Casey's trunk, but investigators had to get a search warrant to get Casey's brother Lee to submit to a DNA test. He also has refused to take a lie detector test for the FBI.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17680298/detail.html


New Twist In Casey Anthony Case
Thursday, September 4, 2008
Brother may be tied to case
by Rozzie Franco and Nada Taha, 540 WFLA/FNN

ORLANDO, FLA. --   The latest twist in the Casey Anthony case comes from the man who at one point gave her a “get out of jail free” card and may tie her brother, Lee Anthony, into the saga ...

Padilla said that officials ruled it was Caylee’s hair just by a process of elimination because the hair had a death ring around it and they know Casey is alive. The fact that the DNA is identical has something to do with who the father is, Padilla said.

“Would the DNA from a child resulting from a union from Lee and Casey have basically the same characteristics? Making the preliminary DNA check not definitive as to who the hair samples are from,” he said.

http://www.540wfla.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=227698&article=4189759


Mitochondrial DNA:

Within the cell cytoplasm there are organelles called mitochondria. The mictochondria contain mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) which is the type of DNA analyzed in order to identify deceased remains.  Mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the mother, not from the father.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_1337.html

 

[IBE]

It is said "God works in mysterious ways"

Re: the area where the sock monkey was found: Has it really, really been thoroughly searched?

Keep up all the Good Works and dedication, Good Monkeys!

[flossy]

Janet, what I was questioning more than anything was if the reason Baden said they do know who Caylee's father is might be due the fact that further testing beyond mitochondrial DNA was performed at a date later than that of the documents we've seen.   

I'm not addressing the issue of who the father actually is. 

Someone earlier was discussing what the Anthonys' motivation might have been for not informing the father or going after child support. (I'm leaving my belief as to who it is out of this one, so this is a hypothetical)  If this was either a just one-night stand, a boyfriend, or friend, I think the reason for their keeping it a secret is none other than control.  They wanted control over Caylee more than they wanted child support.  They wouldn't want anyone to have any say in what went on in Caylee's life.

[klaasend]

It is said "God works in mysterious ways"

Re: the area where the sock monkey was found: Has it really, really been thoroughly searched?

Keep up all the Good Works and dedication, Good Monkeys!

Hi IBE - good to see you!

[Tamikosmom]

TWO PERSPECTIVES FROM TWO FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST

DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST

REPORT: Evidence Of Decomposition, Chloroform In Casey's Car
POSTED: 8:21 am EDT October 24, 2008
UPDATED: 6:05 pm EDT October 24, 2008

The report details findings from FBI tests on items found inside Casey's car, including DNA results on hair samples and forensic testing of debris and clothing (read details).

Among the results is confirmation that a hair sample found in the vehicle "exhibits characteristics of apparent decomposition." The report also says that specific hair is "microscopically similar" to hair investigators took from Caylee's hairbrush.

"The hair found in the trunk establishes that Caylee's dead and that her dead body was in the trunk of the car. Even if they don't find the body, it's enough evidence, scientific evidence, to establish that she's dead," said Dr. Michael Baden, nationally-renowned forensic pathologist.

DNA testing done on that piece of hair and compared with a sample provided by Casey confirmed that neither Casey nor Caylee can be "excluded as the source of the hair," because the "mtDNA sequences ... are the same."

http://www.wftv.com/news/17793661/detail.html


LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST

NANCY GRACE
Forensic Evidence Released in Missing Florida Toddler Case
Aired October 24, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. And therefore, it can only belong to one of two people, based on the DNA testing. That is either Caylee or Casey. And since Casey is clearly alive, even though she`s sitting in jail tonight, then wherefore, it has to belong to Caylee, wherefore, she is dead.

Let`s bring in Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky. He is a forensic scientist and he is also a consultant to Casey Anthony`s defense team. Koby (ph), did you reach the same conclusion? And again, you`re working for the defense at this point. But did you reach the same conclusion that this says, basically, she`s dead, the child is dead?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, Jane, let me address the issue that Dr. Arnall just raised. He was very clear that it`s either Casey or Caylee`s hair. That is supposed to be based on mitochondrial DNA analysis. What Dr. Arnall is not telling you is that mitochondrial DNA is not unique to an individual. But not only is it not unique because all maternally-related relatives have the same mitochondrial DNA, but also non- relatives -- there are certain non-related individuals that share the same mitochondrial DNA. So this is speculation. This is not scientific fact.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you`re saying that somebody accidentally dropped a piece of hair in the trunk, and they just happened to have the same exact DNA as Caylee and Casey, but it`s not Cindy because she`s alive, so it couldn`t be her hair, but it`s somebody else who then somehow ended up dead or was dead?

KOBILINSKY: Jane, Jane, I`m not saying anything of that sort. And as you know, I cannot comment on the specifics of a case that I`m working on. But I will say that the conclusion that this hair is either Caylee or Casey is simply not scientific. It`s a speculation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Dr. Arnall, you know, shoot back.

ARNALL: I agree with -- I agree with precisely what he said. And the defense will be confronted with the problem that someone who is dead and decomposed has mitochondrial DNA consistent with either Casey or Caylee. So you`ll develop a list of people in the neighborhood who could have been in the trunk and who are currently missing and decomposed to whom this hair might belong.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s my point. That`s my point, Koby, is that, statistically, the probability of it being anybody else but Caylee is minute to the point of being ridiculous.

KOBILINSKY: Well, you know, "statistically" is exactly the right word because we deal with statistics. We do not have a unique profile. The statistics may be more common than you would think. And the relevant population may not be in the block. It may be in the county or the state.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, this reminds me of the O.J. Simpson trial, when they started doing all the crazy DNA analysis that got to the point where nobody could understand what they were talking about. And basically, you know, it was sort of, like, in confusion, there is victory for the defense.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0810/24/ng.01.html

[Tater]

If George cleaned the trunk of the car and Cindy washed the clothes that were in it,why has LE not done something about it? I would imagine this could be proven as far as the timeline goes.The car stunk at the two yard,it was taken home to the A'S,put in the garage,and evidence disappears.I am beginning to think that there is a real cover-up going on but can't figure out why they are not being charged with a crime.LE made a statement that they thought George knows alot about alot of things.It seem's to be an implication to cover-up?Maybe this is why the A's are defending her like mad..We really need the answer to when the search for Chloroform happened.It seem's if it was before Caylee went missing,we'd be here but if it was after,they would be arrested.What's the penalty for covering up a murder?If George cleaned the car,he knew Caylee was dead so therefore,he could have retrieved the body later with Lee's help and really got rid of it!This whole thing is mind boggling..

[PJ]

O/T - but Florida related:

http://www.local6.com/news/17802392/detail.html

Escaped Monkeys Cause Mischief On Ranch
5 Monkeys Apparently Take Corn, Tamper With Tractors

POSTED: 3:49 pm EDT October 25, 2008


LAKELAND, Fla. -- Several monkeys that escaped from a Polk County facility months ago are creating mischief on a nearby ranch.

The remaining five patas monkeys that escaped from nearby Safari Wild in April have turned up at a 600-acre ranch.

The owner of the ranch said corn has vanished at an alarming rate from deer feeders and the switches and knobs on his tractors were tampered with, draining the batteries on both.

The tiny footprints helped unravel the mystery.

 

AAAAaaaaawww Klaas!!!
Thank You for sharing the "Monkey Laughs" with us.

PJ

[KarmaRoundUp]

I have a question hopefully someone can answer.
If they only had Caylee's DNA,and IF Lee was the father,could they tell that just from Caylee's DNA?

Hi Karma

Dr. Baden did specify that forensic DNA testing of the strands of hair could determine the paternity but ... according to the released report ... only Mitochondrial DNA testing was conducted.  Mitochondrial DNA testing  does not reveal anything about the paternity ...

However ... if DNA testing went further than Mitochondrial ... the paternity could be confirmed but ... it is my understanding ... the father's DNA would be required.  Consider the Lee Anthony's DNA was only taken not even a couple of weeks ago ...

Janet

+++++++++

On the Record w/ Greta
Caylee Search: Psychics, Jail Visits Refused, 'Body Farm' Techniques
Tuesday, August 12, 2008

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Casey Anthony's car trunk carry a dead body? Both detectives and Casey's mother, Cindy, say they noticed an odor coming from that trunk that they seemed to be -- that of a decomposing body, is what they said. Well, right now, anthropologists from the University of Tennessee's facility known as "the body farm" are testing air samples from the car's trunk. What can the tests prove?

Joining us live is forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden. Dr. Baden, can they take an air sample from the trunk and determine whether or not there had been a body decomposing in that truck?

DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, because after we die and the bacteria proliferate in our body and start breaking down our muscles and our fat and organs, vapors, gases, are formed with beautiful names like cadaverine (ph) and putrescine (ph) that are a particular structure that are easily picked up in the toxicology lab if they're collected from the area, the air that the body was in. And if there was a dead body in the trunk of the car and they collected the air sample, they should be able to find those chemicals.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, this timeline begins probably sometime July -- June 15 is Father's Day.

BADEN: Right.

Watch Greta's interview with Dr. Baden

VAN SUSTEREN: June 16 is the last day that the grandfather saw that child, and it isn't until July 15 that the police are called. Let's say hypothetically that a body that began decomposing as soon as the 16th...

BADEN: Right.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Were placed in that trunk, if you examined the truck now on August whatever this is, 11, would you still -- would the test still be as effective?

QUESTION: It would not be as effective now as it was when the cadaver dog alerted to it and the detective and the grandma said they smelled the decomposition. There was also some stains there. See, the air will dissipate over time, whereas the stain that was there would still be there. And if it were decomposition fluid or blood, that can be identified. And that's better than just the odor because you can do DNA on a stain and see if it came from Casey (SIC).

VAN SUSTEREN: I suppose...

BADEN: Or the baby.

VAN SUSTEREN: I supposed that it wouldn't necessarily be that either one would necessarily be conclusive, but it's sort of the combination would certainly be more persuasive than standing alone.

BADEN: Yes. Yes. And the stain could tell you DNA. The hair -- remember, there was hair there. The hair has DNA.

VAN SUSTEREN: And can also tell whether someone had been dead or not, the hair.

BADEN: That's right. The hair can tell you who the daddy is, as well as the baby, and also whether it came from a dead person or a living person.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Dr. Baden. Thank you, sir.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402098,00.html


Casey Anthony's Father To Testify Against Her In Front Of Grand Jury
POSTED: 5:56 pm EDT October 9, 2008
UPDATED: 6:29 pm EDT October 9, 2008

George and Cindy Anthony voluntarily gave up DNA samples this week so investigators could scientifically exclude either of them as the source of the hair and stain in Casey's trunk, but investigators had to get a search warrant to get Casey's brother Lee to submit to a DNA test. He also has refused to take a lie detector test for the FBI.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17680298/detail.html


Mitochondrial DNA:

Within the cell cytoplasm there are organelles called mitochondria. The mictochondria contain mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) which is the type of DNA analyzed in order to identify deceased remains.  Mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the mother, not from the father.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_1337.html

Thank you Janet.
I know that MDNA is directly related to the Mother but I was asking about just regular DNA.Russ posted that they could tell IF Lee was the Father just using Caylee's DNA.

[Rob]

If George cleaned the trunk of the car and Cindy washed the clothes that were in it,why has LE not done something about it? I would imagine this could be proven as far as the timeline goes.The car stunk at the two yard,it was taken home to the A'S,put in the garage,and evidence disappears.I am beginning to think that there is a real cover-up going on but can't figure out why they are not being charged with a crime.LE made a statement that they thought George knows alot about alot of things.It seem's to be an implication to cover-up?Maybe this is why the A's are defending her like mad..We really need the answer to when the search for Chloroform happened.It seem's if it was before Caylee went missing,we'd be here but if it was after,they would be arrested.What's the penalty for covering up a murder?If George cleaned the car,he knew Caylee was dead so therefore,he could have retrieved the body later with Lee's help and really got rid of it!This whole thing is mind boggling..

I guess we're to believe that George is the only former cop with no experience around a dead body or crime scene and Cindy is the only nurse that doesn't know what human decomposition smells like.

when you just accept that - it's all so much easier to understand how unjustly they have been treated by everyone - especially me. 

[KarmaRoundUp]

Can someone please post the link to Murt? I seem to have lost it TYIA

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/murtwitnessone-live

I also flipped the image:


Sure looks like a sock monkey to me!

Murt has it labeled Curious George Monkey.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet, what I was questioning more than anything was if the reason Baden said they do know who Caylee's father is might be due the fact that further testing beyond mitochondrial DNA was performed at a date later than that of the documents we've seen.   

I'm not addressing the issue of who the father actually is. 

Someone earlier was discussing what the Anthonys' motivation might have been for not informing the father or going after child support. (I'm leaving my belief as to who it is out of this one, so this is a hypothetical)  If this was either a just one-night stand, a boyfriend, or friend, I think the reason for their keeping it a secret is none other than control.  They wanted control over Caylee more than they wanted child support.  They wouldn't want anyone to have any say in what went on in Caylee's life.

Exactly!!!

I related a personal story a few pages back pertaining to this very issue.  I have very mixed feelings in regards to the reasoning why a mother and her family would keep the father and his family in the dark regarding the existence of a child/grandchild.

Nevertheless ... I firmly believe that the issue will not go away ... it is only a matter of time ... sooner or later ... before it will have to be confronted.  IMO.

Janet

[mammy]

If George cleaned the trunk of the car and Cindy washed the clothes that were in it,why has LE not done something about it? I would imagine this could be proven as far as the timeline goes.The car stunk at the two yard,it was taken home to the A'S,put in the garage,and evidence disappears.I am beginning to think that there is a real cover-up going on but can't figure out why they are not being charged with a crime.LE made a statement that they thought George knows alot about alot of things.It seem's to be an implication to cover-up?Maybe this is why the A's are defending her like mad..We really need the answer to when the search for Chloroform happened.It seem's if it was before Caylee went missing,we'd be here but if it was after,they would be arrested.What's the penalty for covering up a murder?If George cleaned the car,he knew Caylee was dead so therefore,he could have retrieved the body later with Lee's help and really got rid of it!This whole thing is mind boggling..

I guess we're to believe that George is the only former cop with no experience around a dead body or crime scene and Cindy is the only nurse that doesn't know what human decomposition smells like.

when you just accept that - it's all so much easier to understand how unjustly they have been treated by everyone - especially me. 

Sorry, I don't drink the Anthony Kool-Aid either.

There is no way that G or C didn't know the smell of death.