Lively Case Discussion #528 9/29 - 10/2/2006

[klaasend]

[San]

Shizaru - I don't know what statements are still left.  There may be many we haven't received yet but I don't know.

As far as walking to Montanja...why not just walk to Malmuk?  He could get Koen or Sander to help him.  Remember how Sander conveniently had his cell phone stollen at school on May 30th?

Maybe, but wouldn't he have called them first? And if Joran had called Sander there would still be a record of it even without Sanders' phone.

1.  Joran wouldn't need to call Koen and Sander, he could walk to their house and knock on their window.

2.  We don't know how much more information is out there on the cell phone traffic that night.  We also don't know how accurate the information in the cell phone statement is.

1.  Maybe, but I think he'd have tried calling them first, rather than just showing up.  Just how far from Arashi do they live?

And does Arashi use the same cell tower as Hadicurari? Because if not I don't think the Arashi dropff scenario works, Joran's call to Deepak places him somewhere within the radius of whatever cell tower covers Hadicurari.  

2.  I think if there were any calls by Joran to Paulus or any of his friends after the call to Deepak, we'd most likely have heard of it by now.  I don't buy that there is a conspiracy by police to cover up phone records.

The police listen to the orders given to them by their superiors.  Who is to say that those records weren't tampered with before they were given to the police.  JMO.

[Anna]

.
Well, I have encountered a few kids who actually wear that kind of make up over the years.  Some seem to be abnormally attached to skateboards but not all.

Just a thought as I do not think Guido was wearing some nice shade of eye shadow but something more along these lines.

Just saying that I do not put too much into the scratches on his face business as I think it was more something like this.  I tend to hover around the three with whom Natalee was last seen.

And I don't care if only one hundred people saw Beth in The Netherlands, that is a hundred more than had seen her before on their own soil.

With that, am off to work.  And



And my heat will not turn on.  Should have checked it on a week day.  Oh, well.  

[Shizaru]

Could you add to this photi a line showing the route they drove to the lighthouse, and also mark the lighthouse? I can only see the restaurant. Or a similar photo if this one won't work, I'd like one that has both a clear view of the relief spot and route to the lighthouse

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Aruban New Tourism Slogan … Come to Aruba and See the Sharks

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/09/30/aruban-new-tourism-slogan-come-to-aruba-and-see-the-sharks/

[klaasend]

SHIZARU

[mrs. red]

BOC's comment regarding the M&C thread:

In my opinion this is bull crap! Murders seem to be covered up for tourism sake! Most murders happen to those from South America and those dealing in the drug and sex slave trade!

My agencies continue to NOT sell Aruba and we discourage other travel professionals not to!

Remember Aruba used to be in our top ten in sales each year! The Marriott and ATA offered me a deal for Aruba and my cost would be $69. I told hem at this point you could not pay me to travel there!

I guess I read this entirely different than msmarple and Anna.  I thought BOC was saying the murders and crimes REPORTED in Aruba are BS.  He goes on to say how his agency will NOT sell Aruba and that you could not pay him to travel there.

BOC has already spoken about the crimes in ARUBA at a travel industry conference.

I agree Klaasend.... (did you notice it only has taken me 17 or so months to spell your name)  that BOC was agreeing with you Anna and Ms.Marple... he is very vocal against traveling to Aruba...

as is our other travel agent... who doesn't post hardly ever... TNMom (flag avatar... not the other one)...

[klaasend]

Mrs. Red - don't worry about my name..no big deal.  Gets mispelled all the time!  My husband always says...it's AA not SS, stop making an ass out of me, LOLOL  

[msmarple]

Just a quick drive by. I read BOC post as saying the murders that we do see Aruba willing to acknowledge are the ones that are did by the sex and drug trade and those from South Aamerica.

Sam - Aruba is "acknowledging" "1 in 20 years" and "2.4 a year."

HOWEVER - The crime stats advertisment we discussed - there is a front page post about it - showed NO homicides in 3 years. (Unless they use a strange, untranslatable term for it, and have numbers much higher than we came up with.)

Here is a translated version (from Klaas) of the table used in the ad; the police union is disputing these figures, and the dispute was the basis of the FP post.

Solo di Pueblo 9/20/2006
Crime statistics on Aruba

Driving without a valid DL
2003, 348 / 2004, 145 / 2005, 210 / 2006, 36

Robbery – aggravated circumstances
2003, 323 / 2004, 328 / 2005, 298 / 2006, 85

Drug offenses (3 LVN) (??)
2003, 247 / 2004, 270 / 2005, 191 / 2006, 95

Opzetheling (??)
2003, 132 / 2004, 128 / 2005, / 2006,

Valsheid (??) in writing
2003, 110 / 2004, 92 / 2005, 54 / 2006,

Maltreatment with a weapon
2003, 102 / 2004, 121 / 2005, / 2006,

Threats against persons or goods
2003, 82 / 2004, / 2005, / 2006,

Simple robbery
2003, 78 / 2004, 93 / 2005, 63 / 2006,

Destruction
2003, 66 / 2004, / 2005, 50 / 2006, 20

Swindling
2003, 52 / 2004, / 2005, / 2006,

Threats against persons
2003, / 2004, 112 / 2005, 76 / 2006, 29

Openlijke geweldpleging (??)
2003, / 2004, 91 / 2005, / 2006, 24

Violent robbery
2003, / 2004, 82 / 2005, 49 / 2006,

Driving under the influence
2003, / 2004, / 2005, 84 / 2006, 40

Drug offenses (4 LVM) (??)
2003, / 2004, / 2005, 76 / 2006, 20

Having a gun
2003, / 2004, / 2005, 53 / 2006,

Go here if you would like to see this in context. It was here before the FP union dispute story - because Klaas watches like a hawk:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=188&start=120

I won't be posting about BOC's post any more. Obviously it was ambiguous and I don't know what was intended. I can find some travel agency-type associations on the internet.

[mrs. red]

Mrs. Red - don't worry about my name..no big deal.  Gets mispelled all the time!  My husband always says...it's AA not SS, stop making an ass out of me, LOLOL  

I know but I was all proud of myself for being able to finally rememeber !!!  LOL.... I have been consistent for at least a month!

[sharon]

1.  Maybe, but I think he'd have tried calling them first, rather than just showing up.  Just how far from Arashi do they live?

Shizaru -- what if it was pre-arranged already for Joran to meet Koen or Sander or Freddy?

Maybe that's part of the MO of 'female tourist's last night on our island'.

Pick her up at C&C, have D&S drive to the 'lighthouse' area -- and voila. There are the other pimps waiting. We're told there is a 'lover's lane' area in the vicinity.

In terms of the 'alibi; phone calls and text messages that you don't believe are alibis...

They've done this 20 times before. You don't think they automatically have a process in place for alibi's??? In the event one of the girls ever decides to press charges?

I do.

jmo.

[mrs. red]

Makes sense to me Sharon.

[justinsmama]

Another very nice post from the NL on the front page by a poster using the name Eline:


Dear all,

I am from Holland and my English is not so good, but I’ll try.
I saw the program of Jensen…twice…and I get a very bad feeling of this whole Holloway situation. I mean, you can get a clear picture in your mind what could have happened, but nothing is certain.
Good lord, what a brave lady she is, the mother of Natalee. In fact, you can create an opinion about her;
I have read people’s comment that she is totally overreacting the situation, but I can tell you only one thing. Losing a daughter is a terrible thing, it will destroy your whole life. And the worst of it all is that you as a mother survive this all. I mean, you have to go trough it, all the way. And that is the hardest part…

People can have a lot of meanings. But she is desperately searching her daughter! What would you do?

I don’t know the mothers name, but I want you to know that we are all have our eyes open wide to search for your daughter too!

Lots of love,
Eline

Thank you, Eline. Yes, I agree. How can anyone "overreact" to the disappearance of their child, not to mention the crap that followed for Nat's family?

[Shizaru]

SHIZARU

Can you make a couple small changes?  That big blue dot bugs me, just the arrow is enough.  And I think they made the complete loop around the front of the restuarant?

Could I see the same photo without any graphics added except Deeapk relief spot and lighthouse arrow? Maybe the road is clear enough the route doesn't need to be marked.

[justinsmama]

Aruba would obviously have the factors that inflate the incidence of murder, as well as their little PIMP boys and domestic murders. My point (and BOC's probably, too) is that Aruba has not even included those in their stats. The lying bastards.

[Nut44x4]

Well.......way back.....wayyyyyyy back when Joran said, Beach...lighthouse, etc., I thought perhaps he was speaking of beaches near the Colorado lighthouse on the lower portion of the island. IF Natalee had even mentioned she had not seen the lighthouse during her trip......she may have meant that one because most probably she had already seen the Calif. lighthouse during her trip. DUNNO....just thoughts on my part, but I have always wondered about the lower portion of the island and THAT lighthouse and the beaches there.

[Kat_Gram]

Sander phoning Joran and asking him about a boat ride. Where do they usually launch the boat ? Joran might have known where Sander expected to be. Or where the boat would be.
Sander " losing " phone is a puzzlement. Then, Sander says he spoke to Freddy about his phone.
Probably lost it with a big sledge hammer. I don't now enough about these things. If you transmit pix on a cell , is there a "memory " in the
phone ?

[klaasend]

Shizaru - let me know if you want a red line marking the road:

[Kat_Gram]

BTW, I did listen to Dana last night. Louise Vargas sounded quite good.
But       I dozed off before the end. That is such a good story. I even liked the backdground of George Hodel and some of the people and things he was involved in.
I will have to get the book and read it. Sounds like one that a person would have a hard time putting down once started.
That house is beautiful. Thanks to Louise again for posting the pictures.

[SunFreak2]

Just how far from Arashi do they live?

I mapped it and measured it using Google Earth.  It's 1.03 miles walking or driving the road from the beach to Koen's.