Lively Case Discussion #529 10/2 - 10/7/2006

[San]

.
I see ALE is doing their usual job of securing the death scene by allowing people to trample all about.  If this were my family, I would demand toxicology reports for drugging.  Very odd they would BOTH drown when I assume they were accustomed to snorkeling.

But I'm sure our ace investigators will be on top of all that, right?

 

I find it strange they both drowned also Anna.  

At the onset, the man was having problems and his female partner went in to assist him, however this turned out to take a turn for the worse since she also drowned.[/list]
Isn't there suppose to be someone in the area with them just in case something like this happens.

[Anna]

ORIGINS of DELICIOUS SPORTER

As requested: http://www.bndestem.nl/binnenland/article213298.ece

Rough translation (by Iquitos at FOB) with assistance from babelfish. Still needs work.
' Joran is a delicious boy ' by Floor Ligtvoet
Thursday 30 March 2006 -

----------snipped to prevent nausea-----------

Joran is proud of that. “My parents try to see everything also from our side. I have always found that good of them.“

Oh, don't you know he has!  Especially when it comes to drugging tourist and all the rest.

Anita implied that Natalee should not have gotten in that car with her son.  I would feel just the opposite about my own sons.  If a girl chose to ride back to the hotel or whatever, I would think she had the utmost in good judgment of character to chose one of my sons for she would be safe.  I would highly commend her on her astute ability to discern character.

Why did Anita think/know otherwise about her own delicious son?  "Boys will be boys" is hogwash when it comes to adults or even kids of this age.  Our ability to control ourselves is all that separates us from the animals.  In some cases, there seems to be no separation and none even required.  That is a societal value or rather a lack of one.

.

[LilPuma]

Here's another suspicious death...
Be Careful, Even in Paradise! - Asylum Forums
Mystery in paradise

By Mitchell Zuckoff, Globe Staff, 11/19/2000

<snipped>

''The Aruban government is digging in their heels and insisting on the correctness of their position, and the American government seems powerless on their own to go down and conduct their own investigation,'' Ames said.

''We're caught in this crazy Catch-22,'' she added, ''without answers to find out what happened to this young mother, daughter, sister who went down for this four-day vacation and never came back.''

At the request of Renee's family, Senator John F. Kerry has pressed Aruba to reopen the investigation. In a letter to Aruban diplomats, the Massachusetts Democrat cited unanswered questions that ''intenstified when Mr. Tiano refused to cooperate with any further investigation of his wife's death.

''Mrs. Tiano's family is very concerned that troubling details about the case raise serious questions about the possibility of foul play and merit further investigation,'' Kerry's letter said.

But Aruban officials remain unmoved. ''We have already closed that case,'' insisted Lugo, the Aruban prosecutor.

In response to Kerry's request, Baarh, Aruba's director of foreign affairs, drafted a letter that says a new investigation would require new evidence and a formal request from the US Justice Department. Neither seems forthcoming.

<snipped>

This story ran on page A01 of the Boston Globe on 11/19/2000.

Why does the USA not step in and provide a formal request for a new investigation (or a real investigation).  Or are they biding their time until Aruba officially closes it?

It seems Aruba's SOP is to not bother with those cases that aren't easy to solve or write-off.  No wonder their police officers don't have experience.  They don't bother doing their jobs.  So why did they need overtime?  Why have they claimed to be too busy?

[LilPuma]

ORIGINS of DELICIOUS SPORTER

As requested: http://www.bndestem.nl/binnenland/article213298.ece

Rough translation (by Iquitos at FOB) with assistance from babelfish. Still needs work.
' Joran is a delicious boy ' by Floor Ligtvoet
Thursday 30 March 2006 -

----------snipped to prevent nausea-----------

Joran is proud of that. “My parents try to see everything also from our side. I have always found that good of them.“

Oh, don't you know he has!  Especially when it comes to drugging tourist and all the rest.

Anita implied that Natalee should not have gotten in that car with her son.  I would feel just the opposite about my own sons.  If a girl chose to ride back to the hotel or whatever, I would think she had the utmost in good judgment of character to chose one of my sons for she would be safe. I would highly commend her on her astute ability to discern character.

Why did Anita think/know otherwise about her own delicious son?  "Boys will be boys" is hogwash when it comes to adults or even kids of this age.  Our ability to control ourselves is all that separates us from the animals.  In some cases, there seems to be no separation and none even required.  That is a societal value or rather a lack of one.
.

B I N G O!
Anita, Charles, Joran, Julia - ARUBA PLEASE READ THIS!!!

[LilPuma]

Are they related? Any clue to cause of death of man -- other than he was in Aruba?

           

[Mere]

Good morning friends...

Strange that two tourists are dead from snorkling....were they too far out....wouldn't you think that the beach patrol would respond and have good CPR training...

Hi BT....glad to see you back home....good trip...?

Leslie....thanks for the morning papers...!

Mere

[Kat_Gram]

BT  Girlie;

Did those monkeys you took to England have a good time ?
Or do they now have an attitude ?

[Peaches]

BT  Girlie;

Did those monkeys you took to England have a good time ?
Or do they now have an attitude ?

I bet they came home with a funny accent!

[msmarple]

.
And of course any equipment they were using has been confiscated and tested??  

  I do not understand how BOTH of them could have drowned.

But that's just me.  I am sure Dennis Jacobs can explain it all.

.

They were SNORKELING - not scuba diving. Snorkeling isn't usually "dangerous" ????

And isn't Baby Beach supposed to be "calm" water? I don't KNOW this, just seem to remember reading that. Anyone???

[Kat_Gram]

BT  Girlie;

Did those monkeys you took to England have a good time ?
Or do they now have an attitude ?

I bet they came home with a funny accent!

I guess we will have to wait for the adventures of :
Mr. BT ( who is very British ) & Mrs. BT ( who is very small )
in England. Wonder what they did ?
What kind of trouble did they get into ?
Did they meet William, Harry, Camilla, or Charles ?
Did they go to the Tower ?

[Anna]

.
And of course any equipment they were using has been confiscated and tested??  

  I do not understand how BOTH of them could have drowned.

But that's just me.  I am sure Dennis Jacobs can explain it all.

.

They were SNORKELING - not scuba diving. Snorkeling isn't usually "dangerous" ????

And isn't Baby Beach supposed to be "calm" water? I don't KNOW this, just seem to remember reading that. Anyone???

Well, obviously it is in Aruba.  I thought not as well but then we have two dead American tourists.  Basically a curved hollow pipe but I want it checked anyway.  Maybe the presence of something odd in it such as cleaning or other chemicals.  Can't hurt, might help Department.

.

[NM]

Hey Monkeys,
this is another article from Leslie's link to Diario, that I would love to see translated.
segun Yolanda Wever, QUIZAS DENTRO DI 5 AÑA, ARUBA LO TIN UN OF MAS CREMATORIO
snippet
Segun e señora, alrededor di 30 aña pasa su tata a bin Aruba cu e machine, pero e tempo ey e no a haya permiso.
Awor cu si ta posibel, esaki lo ta mucho costoso y e Arubianonan no ta cla pa esaki ainda, mirando cu nan ta hopi religioso pa loke ta restonan di nan famianan.
Segun sra Wever, e ta kere si cu dentro di 5 aña, nos lo tin un crematorio na Aruba.
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/10/5/local/news3.php

Thanks for the links Leslie.
Welcome back BT

[Kat_Gram]

Hey Monkeys,
this is another article from Leslie's link to Diario, that I would love to see translated.
segun Yolanda Wever, QUIZAS DENTRO DI 5 AÑA, ARUBA LO TIN UN OF MAS CREMATORIO
snippet
Segun e señora, alrededor di 30 aña pasa su tata a bin Aruba cu e machine, pero e tempo ey e no a haya permiso.
Awor cu si ta posibel, esaki lo ta mucho costoso y e Arubianonan no ta cla pa esaki ainda, mirando cu nan ta hopi religioso pa loke ta restonan di nan famianan.
Segun sra Wever, e ta kere si cu dentro di 5 aña, nos lo tin un crematorio na Aruba.
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/10/5/local/news3.php

Thanks for the links Leslie.
Welcome back BT

What I think it says is that there are new instructions RE : cremations in Aruba. You have to ensure that there is a death certificate first.
No more " live" cremations.

[LilPuma]

BT  Girlie;

Did those monkeys you took to England have a good time ?
Or do they now have an attitude ?

I thought Brits were cute and the French had attitude?  

[justinsmama]

Alert: Ecoli Claims Life of Celeb

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d79/justinsmama/popeyespinachecoli.jpg

[LilPuma]

Hey Monkeys,
this is another article from Leslie's link to Diario, that I would love to see translated.
segun Yolanda Wever, QUIZAS DENTRO DI 5 AÑA, ARUBA LO TIN UN OF MAS CREMATORIO
snippet
Segun e señora, alrededor di 30 aña pasa su tata a bin Aruba cu e machine, pero e tempo ey e no a haya permiso.
Awor cu si ta posibel, esaki lo ta mucho costoso y e Arubianonan no ta cla pa esaki ainda, mirando cu nan ta hopi religioso pa loke ta restonan di nan famianan.
Segun sra Wever, e ta kere si cu dentro di 5 aña, nos lo tin un crematorio na Aruba.
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/10/5/local/news3.php

Thanks for the links Leslie.
Welcome back BT

The web translator was no help, but it sounds like they'll have a crematorio within 5 years.

[LilPuma]

Has there ever been a crime solved in Aruba? What is that jail for, drug  addicts?  There certainly isn't anyone in there for murder.  One Happy Island:  make you want to kill yourself.

Question 1:  I don't think so.  They couldn't even find and arrest Greta for shouting.  Now it's a cold case.  

Question 2:  Drug addicts as well as unfortunate non-Dutch who are placed there until they can determine there is no evidence of a crime.

[Carnut]

BT  Girlie;

Did those monkeys you took to England have a good time ?
Or do they now have an attitude ?

I bet they came home with a funny accent!

I guess we will have to wait for the adventures of :
Mr. BT ( who is very British ) & Mrs. BT ( who is very small )
in England. Wonder what they did ?
What kind of trouble did they get into ?
Did they meet William, Harry, Camilla, or Charles ?
Did they go to the Tower ?

Did Mr. BT take his toothbrush?

[LilPuma]

[
ALE probably arrested CC for babbling, waxing poetically among the tourists, which impedes $$ spending.

Some of that stuff he has written is bad enough that he should be arrested for it.  Especially that boat on the rocks song.   That should have gotten him at least thirty days minimum.

.

I think CC got arrested for telling VF some of the things that Joran said that first night.  These things were not in the police reports and it was therefore illegal for CC to tell anyone.

[shadow]

[
ALE probably arrested CC for babbling, waxing poetically among the tourists, which impedes $$ spending.

Some of that stuff he has written is bad enough that he should be arrested for it.  Especially that boat on the rocks song.   That should have gotten him at least thirty days minimum.

.

I think CC got arrested for telling VF some of the things that Joran said that first night.  These things were not in the police reports and it was therefore illegal for CC to tell anyone.

Wouldn't that be the other way around? How can he get in trouble for discussing hearsay as opposed to what was written in police reports? The latter would seem to me to be more of a reason for arrest considering their legal system, or at least what I understand of it.