To The Republican Monkeys

[Tater]

i am not surprised so many Jews would vote for Obama.

i am always somewhat suspicious of Evangelical Christians 'supporting' Israel so strongly.
they believe you have to accept Christ as the savior else you are doomed. so most Jews are doomed.
but the existence of Israel is needed for the apocalypse to occur - and then the big final war at Meggido / Armageddon.
why do they support Israel so strongly?
do they just need Israel for Jesus to come back and after that screw the Jews, 2nd holocaust - they all can go to hell?
of course not all have that agenda. but i am just wary of such end-time talk i hear sometimes.
combine that with that Iranian nut who also believes in some prophet who needs to come back and calls for the destruction of Israel...
to let religion influence political decisions especially on the geopolitical scale just makes me very uneasy.
with Bush and Ahmenijad you had two Presidents believing in end-times prophecies and hating eachother.
then it could becomes like a self-fullfilling prophecy and threatens the security of Israel.

i've enough rational reasons to support Israel.

Genesis 12
 1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

 2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

 3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Only 1/3 of the Jews will be saved.. You can be suspicious of us all you want but it changes nothing..You are right,we do believe that all that have not accepted Christ as their Saviour will perish..This is true..

[WhiskeyGirl]

i am not surprised so many Jews would vote for Obama.

i am always somewhat suspicious of Evangelical Christians 'supporting' Israel so strongly.
they believe you have to accept Christ as the savior else you are doomed. so most Jews are doomed.
but the existence of Israel is needed for the apocalypse to occur - and then the big final war at Meggido / Armageddon.
why do they support Israel so strongly?
do they just need Israel for Jesus to come back and after that screw the Jews, 2nd holocaust - they all can go to hell?
of course not all have that agenda. but i am just wary of such end-time talk i hear sometimes.
combine that with that Iranian nut who also believes in some prophet who needs to come back and calls for the destruction of Israel...
to let religion influence political decisions especially on the geopolitical scale just makes me very uneasy.
with Bush and Ahmenijad you had two Presidents believing in end-times prophecies and hating eachother.
then it could becomes like a self-fullfilling prophecy and threatens the security of Israel.

i've enough rational reasons to support Israel.

I would not lump all Christians together when it comes to beliefs.

I believe that Jesus will come for his flock and also some that are "not of his flock".  I believe "not of his flock" includes good people, who may be something other than Christian, or non-believers. 

I know this from the Bible -

From John 10:14-16

14.  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15.  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16.  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Christians (my Bible study) believe the end times will arrive in God's time.  We are not to worry or wonder when that happens.

My infomation suggests that Islam teaches that humans can affect the arrival of the end times.  Humans can hasten that day, help it along, etc.

[Tater]

From John 10:14-16

14.  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15.  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16.  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The other sheep are the Gentiles,not unbelievers,good people,etc....

[crazybabyborg]

The basis for Christians, fundamental or otherwise, to view Israel's place in this world with an intertwined political/religious interest, is based in the common Judao Christian belief in the Old Testament. The promises God made to Israel, specifically the Abrahamic covenant, are cornerstones of both of our religions. There is nothing in the New Testament that challenges the Old Testament truths, in fact, Jesus said:

Mat 5:17-18:  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Many prophecies, a remarkable number, of the Old Testament concerning Israel have already been fulfilled in modern times (late 1900's), and many Christians and Jews alike recognize the fulfilled promises.

Israel will prevail over its enemies: written 701-681 BC:     Isaiah 41:12-14
The ruins of Israel would be rebuilt: written 750 BC:      Amos 9:11-13
Prosperity for modern-day Israel: written 593-571 BC:    Ezekial 36:11
Trees again would grow in Israel: written 701-681 BC:    Isaiah 41:18-20
Israel's fruit would fill the world:  written 701-681 BC:    Isaiah 27:6
Jerusalem would become the world's most important religious site: written 750-686 BC:  Micah 4:1
**Egypt would never again rule over other nations: written 593-571 BC:   Ezekiel 29:15
In Ezekiel 29:15, the prophet says that Egypt would recover from a desolation (perhaps Babylon's attack about 2600 years ago), but that it would never again rule over other nations. Up until the time of Ezekiel, Egypt had been a world power for centuries, dominating many nations, including Israel. But for most of the past 2500 years, Egypt has been controlled by foreign powers, including the Romans, Ottomans and Europeans. Today, Egypt is an independent nation again. In 1948, 1967 and 1973, Egypt tried to dominate Israel but was unsuccessful each time, despite the fact that Egypt is 10 times larger than Israel. Since the time of Ezekiel, Egypt no longer rules over other nations.
Jews return to Jerusalem: written 520 and 518 BC:   Zechariah 8:7-8
Worldwide return of Jews to Israel: written 701-681 BC:  Isaiah 43:5-6
**In Isaiah 43:5-6, the prophet Isaiah said that the Jews would return to their homeland from the east, the west, the north and the south. Isaiah lived about 2700 years ago. At that time, the Assyrians had forced many Jews in the northern kingdom of Israel into exile. Those Jews were taken to other areas in the Middle East. Then, about 1900 years ago, the Romans destroyed the city of Jerusalem and killed and exiled hundreds of thousands of Jews. Since then, the Jews have been scattered to virtually every country in the world. But, during the past century, millions of Jews have returned to Israel, from the east, the west, the north and the south.

From the east: Many Jews living in the Middle East moved to Israel by the early 1900s.

From the west: During mid-1900s, hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the West (Europe and the United States) began moving to Israel.

From the north: The former Soviet Union (Russia) is north of Israel. It refused to allow its Jewish residents to move to Israel. But, after years of pressure from other countries, Russia finally began to allow Jews to return to Israel during the 1980s. So far, hundreds of thousands of Russian Jews have moved to Israel.

From the south: Ethiopia, which is south of Israel, also refused to allow its Jews to return to Israel. But, in 1985, Israel struck a deal with Ethiopia's communist government to allow the Jews of Ethiopia to move to Israel. On the weekend of May 25, 1991, 14,500 Ethiopian Jews were airlifted to Israel.

Isaiah's prophecy was also correct in saying that the north (Russia) and the south (Ethiopia) would have to be persuaded to give up their Jews. Many countries pressured Russia for years before it began to allow its Jews to leave. And Ethiopia had to be paid a ransom to allow its Jews to leave.

Isaiah's prophecy was also correct in saying that the Jews would return "from the ends of the earth," and Isaiah said that many centuries before the Jews had been scattered to the ends of the earth. During the past 100 years, Jews living as far east as China, as far west as the West Coast of the United States, as far north as Scandinavia, and as far south as South Africa, have moved to Israel.

Here is Isaiah 43:5-6

"Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, `Give them up!' and to the south, `Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth…


There is more, and please forgive the lengthy post, but to me, seeing these fulfillments is remarkable. 

Christians are called upon to stand with Israel, and their God is our God. The fulfillment of prophecy concerning Israel is reaffirmation to me (although I would believe even if I hadn't lived in a time to see it), that God doesn't make promises He doesn't keep. Scripture clearly states that Nations will be judged based on their treatment of Israel. I don't have to decide who is right in Israel's conflicts and struggles. God has already determined that for me, and I accept it.

This post is reflective of my own faith. If your faith is otherwise, please know it is not my intention to offend in any way. I certainly respect anyone's right to worship, or not, as they see fit.

[LouiseVargas]

Thank you all for your responses.

CBB, it's not my victory. The victory belongs to the voters ... you and I and all the Americans' who voted.

casa, no comprende.

finngirl, I hope you are with me.

jjay, you are right.

tcumom, you should see some of the posts I have copied and saved. Don't make me post them to prove my point.

Thank you, Rammstein.

nicnic, government has no place in religion, right?

Ree, I don't know about the MSM, but I never experienced the wrath and rudeness of Republican Monkeys on this board. I have saved posts to back up this fact. Sure there were Republicans who were not rude to me because they recently joined the group and don't know what happened in the past. 

SunnyinTX, trust me.

Hello Tater, it's a pleasure to meet you.

Thank you caesu and Sam. 

Woo Hoo A's Fever. I'll take your advice.

CBB, thanks for your last post. You might be the most fair person on this board.

I am happy today! 

      party on     

[Tater]

Whiskeygirl wrote:
 I would not lump all Christians together when it comes to beliefs.

I believe that Jesus will come for his flock and also some that are "not of his flock".  I believe "not of his flock" includes good people, who may be something other than Christian, or non-believers. 

I know this from the Bible -

From John 10:14-16

14.  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15.  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16.  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Christians (my Bible study) believe the end times will arrive in God's time.  We are not to worry or wonder when that happens.

My infomation suggests that Islam teaches that humans can affect the arrival of the end times.  Humans can hasten that day, help it along, etc.


I replied earlier about the other so now I am addressing this,
"Christians (my Bible study) believe the end times will arrive in God's time.  We are not to worry or wonder when that happens."
 
This has been bugging the tar out of me.Where do you get this Whiskeygirl?Could you please enlighten me as to the scripture that says this? I can assure you that it just isn't so..In fact,the Word calls us Blessed..

Revelation 1:1-3
 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:

2. Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3. Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.

Revelation 22:7
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"whosoever believeth in him "...There is no hope for unbelievers getting to Heaven Whiskeygirl.He is coming for those that believe,not unbelievers and good people,etc...To believe otherwise is following a false gospel..:(It is true,we are not to worry and I don't but it is troubling watching the masses gather on the wide road when it is the narrow they must follow..

2 Timothy 2:15

  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This old world is fastly coming to it's end and I so look forward to being removed from it! Maranatha!!!! God Bless ya!

[Tater]

The basis for Christians, fundamental or otherwise, to view Israel's place in this world with an intertwined political/religious interest, is based in the common Judao Christian belief in the Old Testament. The promises God made to Israel, specifically the Abrahamic covenant, are cornerstones of both of our religions. There is nothing in the New Testament that challenges the Old Testament truths, in fact, Jesus said:

Mat 5:17-18:  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Many prophecies, a remarkable number, of the Old Testament concerning Israel have already been fulfilled in modern times (late 1900's), and many Christians and Jews alike recognize the fulfilled promises.

Israel will prevail over its enemies: written 701-681 BC:     Isaiah 41:12-14
The ruins of Israel would be rebuilt: written 750 BC:      Amos 9:11-13
Prosperity for modern-day Israel: written 593-571 BC:    Ezekial 36:11
Trees again would grow in Israel: written 701-681 BC:    Isaiah 41:18-20
Israel's fruit would fill the world:  written 701-681 BC:    Isaiah 27:6
Jerusalem would become the world's most important religious site: written 750-686 BC:  Micah 4:1
**Egypt would never again rule over other nations: written 593-571 BC:   Ezekiel 29:15
In Ezekiel 29:15, the prophet says that Egypt would recover from a desolation (perhaps Babylon's attack about 2600 years ago), but that it would never again rule over other nations. Up until the time of Ezekiel, Egypt had been a world power for centuries, dominating many nations, including Israel. But for most of the past 2500 years, Egypt has been controlled by foreign powers, including the Romans, Ottomans and Europeans. Today, Egypt is an independent nation again. In 1948, 1967 and 1973, Egypt tried to dominate Israel but was unsuccessful each time, despite the fact that Egypt is 10 times larger than Israel. Since the time of Ezekiel, Egypt no longer rules over other nations.
Jews return to Jerusalem: written 520 and 518 BC:   Zechariah 8:7-8
Worldwide return of Jews to Israel: written 701-681 BC:  Isaiah 43:5-6
**In Isaiah 43:5-6, the prophet Isaiah said that the Jews would return to their homeland from the east, the west, the north and the south. Isaiah lived about 2700 years ago. At that time, the Assyrians had forced many Jews in the northern kingdom of Israel into exile. Those Jews were taken to other areas in the Middle East. Then, about 1900 years ago, the Romans destroyed the city of Jerusalem and killed and exiled hundreds of thousands of Jews. Since then, the Jews have been scattered to virtually every country in the world. But, during the past century, millions of Jews have returned to Israel, from the east, the west, the north and the south.

From the east: Many Jews living in the Middle East moved to Israel by the early 1900s.

From the west: During mid-1900s, hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the West (Europe and the United States) began moving to Israel.

From the north: The former Soviet Union (Russia) is north of Israel. It refused to allow its Jewish residents to move to Israel. But, after years of pressure from other countries, Russia finally began to allow Jews to return to Israel during the 1980s. So far, hundreds of thousands of Russian Jews have moved to Israel.

From the south: Ethiopia, which is south of Israel, also refused to allow its Jews to return to Israel. But, in 1985, Israel struck a deal with Ethiopia's communist government to allow the Jews of Ethiopia to move to Israel. On the weekend of May 25, 1991, 14,500 Ethiopian Jews were airlifted to Israel.

Isaiah's prophecy was also correct in saying that the north (Russia) and the south (Ethiopia) would have to be persuaded to give up their Jews. Many countries pressured Russia for years before it began to allow its Jews to leave. And Ethiopia had to be paid a ransom to allow its Jews to leave.

Isaiah's prophecy was also correct in saying that the Jews would return "from the ends of the earth," and Isaiah said that many centuries before the Jews had been scattered to the ends of the earth. During the past 100 years, Jews living as far east as China, as far west as the West Coast of the United States, as far north as Scandinavia, and as far south as South Africa, have moved to Israel.

Here is Isaiah 43:5-6

"Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, `Give them up!' and to the south, `Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth…


There is more, and please forgive the lengthy post, but to me, seeing these fulfillments is remarkable. 

Christians are called upon to stand with Israel, and their God is our God. The fulfillment of prophecy concerning Israel is reaffirmation to me (although I would believe even if I hadn't lived in a time to see it), that God doesn't make promises He doesn't keep. Scripture clearly states that Nations will be judged based on their treatment of Israel. I don't have to decide who is right in Israel's conflicts and struggles. God has already determined that for me, and I accept it.

This post is reflective of my own faith. If your faith is otherwise, please know it is not my intention to offend in any way. I certainly respect anyone's right to worship, or not, as they see fit.

Beautifully written! Thankyou for posting it!

[WhiskeyGirl]

What is a "gentile" -

Gentile
- One who is not of the Jewish faith or is of a non-Jewish nation.
- A Christian.
- Archaic. A pagan or heathen.
- Mormon Church. A non-Mormon.

There are many reasons a person may be a non or un believer.

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament tell of numerous conflicts between Jews and Gentiles. Figuratively, a “gentile” is any nonbeliever.

http://www.answers.com/topic/gentile

I don't have a small print legend to the bible, and trust that it includes the things God wanted me to know.  I acknowledge that all Christians do not see or follow the same messages from the Bible.  I can only go by what I read, I may not know exactly who is included in the group  "other sheep" and "not of my fold".  I do know that Jesus will also bring them and they will hear his voice, and that there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

John 10
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

Whiskeygirl wrote:
I would not lump all Christians together when it comes to beliefs.

I believe that Jesus will come for his flock and also some that are "not of his flock".  I believe "not of his flock" includes good people, who may be something other than Christian, or non-believers. 

I know this from the Bible -

From John 10:14-16

14.  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15.  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16.  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Christians (my Bible study) believe the end times will arrive in God's time.  We are not to worry or wonder when that happens.

My infomation suggests that Islam teaches that humans can affect the arrival of the end times.  Humans can hasten that day, help it along, etc.


I replied earlier about the other so now I am addressing this,
"Christians (my Bible study) believe the end times will arrive in God's time.  We are not to worry or wonder when that happens."
 
This has been bugging the tar out of me.Where do you get this Whiskeygirl?Could you please enlighten me as to the scripture that says this? I can assure you that it just isn't so..In fact,the Word calls us Blessed..

Revelation 1:1-3
 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:

2. Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3. Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.

Revelation 22:7
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"whosoever believeth in him "...There is no hope for unbelievers getting to Heaven Whiskeygirl.He is coming for those that believe,not unbelievers and good people,etc...To believe otherwise is following a false gospel..:(It is true,we are not to worry and I don't but it is troubling watching the masses gather on the wide road when it is the narrow they must follow..

2 Timothy 2:15

  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This old world is fastly coming to it's end and I so look forward to being removed from it! Maranatha!!!! God Bless ya!

[Tater]

The Gentiles listened to the gospel when the Jews were deaf to it.

[nonesuche]

I've allowed responses none, because I felt the original post that established the thread was an invitation for response. If the response is only referencing that post I won't edit.

[crazybabyborg]

We're getting pretty far afield from where politics and religion meet. It's OK, but we'll need to start another thread if this particular discussion continues much further.

Having said that, I'm compelled to add just this to it...... SORRY!

I've always measured some of the passages cited here with this passage, from Jesus's prayer while He was with his disciples just before His arrest. He was saying goodbye to them, preparing them, and praying to His Father concerning them. It has always touched me deeply that Jesus, facing the unimaginable that was before Him, had them and you and me on His heart. Here is the passage from John:

Jhn 17:19 - 20: For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,

From Adam and Eve in the garden, God established the price for sin. Blood is required and when He clothed their nakedness with animal skin, it evidenced the death their sin had brought into the world. It had not existed until then in the world God had created for us, and where He walked in the cool of the evening with them. The plan for redemption was born from their sin because God put His plan in place to reconcile us to Him. Blood is integral in that plan.

Blood sacrifice was required of His chosen people on the day of Atonement and poured over the Mercy Seat (literally the lid of the Ark Of The Covenant, where the Tablets of Law were housed). The blood "covered the Law" and man's shortcomings from adherence to them. That's why Jesus is "The lamb of God". He lived a sinless life and was therefore "unblemished and acceptable" to the perfection of the Law. His blood, willingly shed for us, covers the sin of those who believe in Him. The righteous garments given to the Saints are "washed in the blood" and made pure.

I believe we, the believers who were to believe through the disciple's words, are those who are included in the fold. When He calls, and when the trumpet blows and with my master's shout ( His voice ) we will be called up, the dead in Christ first, (remains of those who have died in Christ, Job 14:15 Thou wouldest call, and I would answer thee: Thou wouldest have a desire to the work of thy hands)) and those who have not died will be "changed" in the twinkling of an eye, and we will be gathered in the air. All there through acceptance of the gift of Salvation made possible through the sinless blood of Christ.

God went to great lengths to establish the price of sin, and gave us requirements of sacrifices and His Son to pay it.
He is a God of Love, and infinitely Just. The price had to be exacted for Justice of the sin, and Love gave us the gift. That's unique to Jesus who said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me." Jhn 14:6

Having said all of that, remember that all things were created through Christ and creation itself bears witness to Him. There is also an internal witness, in the Holy Spirit. There are many ways to come to belief in Jesus. and "To whom much is given, much will be required." Those who respond to Jesus, whether they know the name or not, through the witnesses God has placed within everyone's reach, and that knowledge is the only opportunity afforded them, also have a personal relationship with Him, and I'm sure will be spared the words "Depart from me, I never knew you". No, I'm sure His arms are open wide and their joy will be eternal.

Col 1:16 : For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Jhn 1:1 : In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
Jhn: 1:14 The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, who is full of grace and truth.


 

[finngirl]

Thank you all for your responses.

finngirl, I hope you are with me.

oh, I'm w/ you!

but I can't post much in the political forum

too much anger and intolerance
toward anyone who is "different"

our founders were very much against
our nation having an official religion

and religious zealotry anywhere/everywhere
(often masquerading as patriotism
and/or defending a just cause)
has caused more wars/deaths
than any other force on the planet,
since time immemorial

so, carry on

[WhiskeyGirl]

Thank you all for your responses.

finagle, I hope you are with me.

oh, I'm w/ you!

but I can't post much in the political forum

too much anger and intolerance
toward anyone who is "different"

our founders were very much against
our nation having an official religion

and religious zealotry anywhere/everywhere
(often masquerading as patriotism
and/or defending a just cause)
has caused more wars/deaths
than any other force on the planet,
since time immemorial

so, carry on

Is there a replacement for religious and/or moral and ethical values?  "Rule of Law"?

Do those making laws exclude zealots, extremists, and reasonable people?  If a human can conceive of a law, does that make it o.k.?   A just cause?

Are all laws impartial?  Does it matter if the law is biased against a group?  Who it may hurt, or how many moral, ethical, or cultural values it tramples on?  Is it always o.k. because it is the new/revised law of the land?

Is the "rule of law" a religion or substitute for religion?  Does that make it better than a religion?  Or, the values of someone who is without religion?

Have laws promoted violence, war and deaths, while masquerading as patriotism and/or defending a just cause? 

Don't like someone?  Make a law against them.  Change the law. 

Are those making laws above moral and ethical values?

Are any of these systems better than another?

Did the founders have plans to stamp out religion?  Keep people from practicing religion?  Did they perhaps think that religious differences should be respected?

Is it better to exclude moral and ethical values from the legal process and laws?

Solutions?

just my humble opinions

[Ree]

Thank you all for your responses.

finagle, I hope you are with me.

oh, I'm w/ you!

but I can't post much in the political forum

too much anger and intolerance
toward anyone who is "different"

our founders were very much against
our nation having an official religion

and religious zealotry anywhere/everywhere
(often masquerading as patriotism
and/or defending a just cause)
has caused more wars/deaths
than any other force on the planet,
since time immemorial

so, carry on

Is there a replacement for religious and/or moral and ethical values?  "Rule of Law"?

Do those making laws exclude zealots, extremists, and reasonable people?  If a human can conceive of a law, does that make it o.k.?   A just cause?

Are all laws impartial?  Does it matter if the law is biased against a group?  Who it may hurt, or how many moral, ethical, or cultural values it tramples on?  Is it always o.k. because it is the new/revised law of the land?

Is the "rule of law" a religion or substitute for religion?  Does that make it better than a religion?  Or, the values of someone who is without religion?

Have laws promoted violence, war and deaths, while masquerading as patriotism and/or defending a just cause? 

Don't like someone?  Make a law against them.  Change the law. 

Are those making laws above moral and ethical values?

Are any of these systems better than another?

Did the founders have plans to stamp out religion?  Keep people from practicing religion?  Did they perhaps think that religious differences should be respected?

Is it better to exclude moral and ethical values from the legal process and laws?

Solutions?

just my humble opinions

Where is there a rule of law that isn't based upon the same things as the 10 commandments?  It is not possible to exclude moral or ethical values from law, because law is necessary for a society to survive.  Those laws then reflect what a society can or will tolerate.

The founding fathers were Christian men who left their own homeland for freedom "of" religion.  But they also feared a government based upon one church, such as the church of England.  Documents do not show that they believed in a government with no religion.

[Ree]

Thank you all for your responses.

finngirl, I hope you are with me.

oh, I'm w/ you!

but I can't post much in the political forum

too much anger and intolerance
toward anyone who is "different"

our founders were very much against
our nation having an official religion

and religious zealotry anywhere/everywhere
(often masquerading as patriotism
and/or defending a just cause)
has caused more wars/deaths
than any other force on the planet,
since time immemorial

so, carry on

Well, that's certainly the kettle calling the pot black!

Our founders were against having an official religion, but they did not believe that religion had no place in government.  They sinply did not want anyone to have to join a particular church in order to get recognition from the government which is why most left England.

What you say is true about religion is true.  Too many wars have been fought in the name of religion.  Unfortunately, religion is not usually the cause.  It's man's greed or jealously and religion is used as an excuse.  Those who truely believe don't behave that way. 

I'm happy you stand with Louise, becuase she obviously needs friends.  Her comments were rude and offensive to all of us Republicans and most of us did nothing to her.

[nicnic]

nicnic, government has no place in religion, right?

I actually didn't address you at all in this forum, mainly because I felt your original post was meant purely to invoke an argument.
However, I DID address someone who posted that government is run by Christians with Christian values, which I do not necessarily agree with.

[Tater]

The Gentiles listened to the gospel when the Jews were deaf to it.

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