Lively Case Discussion #479 6/25/2006

[MuffyBee]

2NJsonsMom-You, your Dad and your family are all in my prayers.  My heart goes out to you.  So many of us here can relate to the worry and care of our parents as they grow older and more frail.  Please email me if you would like to talk.  God bless.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Klaas, thanks for reposting San's transcription, which I've just read....you're the bomb.

Hotshot, Justinsmama & MuffyBee, thank you so much...I will try to be in touch.  MuffyBee, I may email when time allows...I'll be juggling the minutes, I'm sure.  be safe and happy.

[Anna]

.
Well, I seem to be the first one up this morning.

Good Morning, Monkeys, and let me be the first to wish that to you!

After sleeping on this, a couple of things come to mind:

The witness is said to have two pieces of evidence.  Dave said one was something metal to weigh down a body.  The second is article of clothing or something the mother would recognize which I think to be the much discussed panties.

Then there is the frozen condom which was sent to his brother then retrieved.

How many do you count?  I count three and he is only supposed to be providing us with two.

Are there TWO witnesses being detained?  Or one witness with three pieces of evidence?  

Or are we just being jerked around yet again by ALE and KJ?  


What is the gardener's name?  Why do I think we have heard the name Carlos Ramos before?  Did we and if so where?

.

[Anna]

.
Am going back to sleep. . . . heat has my sleep pattern all messed up even in air conditioning my body knows it is too hot out there.

Speaking of which, the gardener was out in search of air conditioning.  This forty year old construction worker was out in search of what?  Hiding in bushes?  I don't buy his reason for being there was a discussion with his wife via phone and he went there for romantic reasons?  Nonsense.

So what was he really doing there at that time of night?  Did he live like Booti in his car or on the beach?  Didn't he have to work the next day which would be Monday?  Did he often go there and hide to watch others?

Does it make sense to weigh down a body then try to swim with it?  Not ot me.  So AZLady must change her story to Joran swimming carrying a pipe clenched in his teeth to use only at the appropriate point?  Dave said something metal to be used as a weight.  I wonder if that part is accurate or just something he has been told.


Why hasn't Fecalruba asked Beth to identify this item belonging to Natalee in all this time?  Guess they are still going to show her, huh!

So Jossy tends to believe this guy and Art Woods doesn't.  I think he saw and is telling a small part of the night's events.  I tend to give him at least a little tiny bit of credibility.  But his story is evolving or so it seems and that is always a bad sign in Aruba.

Going back to sleep. . . . . .no one should be awake this early on Sunday morning!!

.

[whytegirl]

I am...beat ya by 1/2 hour!

Jen woke me up before 5:30 for a sippy cup refill....woke up after a bad dream.  I am one of those people that cannot go back to bed no matter how hard I try.

I dunno what to make of the Colombian witness; I don't wanna judge him or make an opinion b/c I broke up my friendship with a Colombian person here (my husband's boss's wife).  Anyways, she lied not only to me but to another person and did not care if we dropped off her 5-year old son in her house home alone, five hours before they arrived from N. Dame.

Besides all the ruckus and bulliness that that kid put my boy through...

I have also come across Venezuelans to try and sway you from a planned evening and take you somewhere else-to rob and probably kill us.  That was my HS grad trip.  They told us there was a salsa show.  Good we double checked with the hotel front desk.  Basic common sense.  This was to me the biggest eye opener I ever had because that was my SECOND trip to the country.  First was with my family.   And I didn't think that things like that could ever happen.

Whenever someone else is to be replacing another one in the same position, I dread it.  Almost always the person is worse than the one before.  Politics anyone?     Hope we are proven wrong in this case and that this person cracks this one up.

[sharon]

Our old BLOND wanted me to show you this pic of the bag.  She made it all clear for us to see.  Hope this all helps.

I am going to sleep now, good night all.

I've been reading and trying to stay caught up -- either nothing is happening or a something big is happening.

I hope these pictures don't reveal what many of us think we see. Since many of us see things differently -- maybe it's just illusion along with the strange shapes a plastic bag can take on.

I see a face in the middle picture as well -- only differently than what has been posted. Just reversed. Upside down.

I don't know how to make notes on the picture -- where you see chin, I see forehead and hairline.   I see eyes. I see the chin at the top where you all see a forehead.

It sickens me -- because from what I see, we would be discussing body parts.

I hope I'm wrong.

[San]

I suppose this person may have witnessed part of a disposal process, say following an assault that took place somewhere else, after the assailant(s) waited near the tennis cub for an accomplice to get his boat into a specific area.

I can agree that he witnessed the disposal part.  The assualt took place at the VDS home.  Now was this guy witnessing the rape of Natalee or did she come to before Joran planned to murder her because she got the call off from the VDS residence and he realized that they were all in trouble if she lived.

In my opinion no 17 year old rapes a girl and then hits her and conveniently walks to his car where he has some sort of blanket or tarp along with weights reading and waiting for him.  This was a plan (premeditated).

[ldstlou]

Hello, it's late, and our day has not progressed as planned.  If there was a prayer thread, I would be there....We were to attend a wedding reception, but as God's will had it planned, our Dad had a faLl that brought him to the hospital on 6/24 approx 2:30pm...was admitted somewhere before 11pm.  He will be under observation for a day or so.  It also was said for us to have a plan for him at 89 yrs old...tough road ahead.  Please pray for guidance for us....my biggest concern this AM was the Line Up and when watching the rerun was talking to our son and missed the segment on Natlee anyway....God's will, I would guess.  

Will check in when time allows.  I know someone will see this and squeeze a pray in there for Dad and us to get through this time.

G'nite....God bless.

Saying my prayers for you now!! Stay strong and in faith!!

[Jerry from Ohio]

OH AZ Lady  just a note of thanks,  you ms  are too too funny and you made this ol Cowboy  smile on a Sunday AM hehehe
  Jerry from Ohio  



 

Oh, of course, of course.  I owe all of my success to my dear, dear Monkey friends.  Stay tuned for part II of the exploits of Joran, the Sporter, champion swimmer and all around athlete who can scale tall buildings with... oh no, that's another story.

[San]

Hello, it's late, and our day has not progressed as planned.  If there was a prayer thread, I would be there....We were to attend a wedding reception, but as God's will had it planned, our Dad had a faLl that brought him to the hospital on 6/24 approx 2:30pm...was admitted somewhere before 11pm.  He will be under observation for a day or so.  It also was said for us to have a plan for him at 89 yrs old...tough road ahead.  Please pray for guidance for us....my biggest concern this AM was the Line Up and when watching the rerun was talking to our son and missed the segment on Natlee anyway....God's will, I would guess.  

Will check in when time allows.  I know someone will see this and squeeze a pray in there for Dad and us to get through this time.

G'nite....God bless.

2NJSons, Sorry to hear abou your dads fall. I will keep your dad in my prayers.

[Peaches]

2NJsonsMom-You, your Dad and your family are all in my prayers.  My heart goes out to you.  So many of us here can relate to the worry and care of our parents as they grow older and more frail.  Please email me if you would like to talk.  God bless.

Me, too.  I can't imagine what you're going thru.  My dad is 82.  I can't imagine losing him now or anytime.  It makes my heart hurt just to think about it.  I know the time will come eventually and I'm afraid I will be in a corner in a heap sobbing incoherently.

[ldstlou]

.
Am going back to sleep. . . . heat has my sleep pattern all messed up even in air conditioning my body knows it is too hot out there.

Speaking of which, the gardener was out in search of air conditioning.  This forty year old construction worker was out in search of what?  Hiding in bushes?  I don't buy his reason for being there was a discussion with his wife via phone and he went there for romantic reasons?  Nonsense.

So what was he really doing there at that time of night?  Did he live like Booti in his car or on the beach?  Didn't he have to work the next day which would be Monday?  Did he often go there and hide to watch others?

Does it make sense to weigh down a body then try to swim with it?  Not ot me.  So AZLady must change her story to Joran swimming carrying a pipe clenched in his teeth to use only at the appropriate point?  Dave said something metal to be used as a weight.  I wonder if that part is accurate or just something he has been told.


Why hasn't Fecalruba asked Beth to identify this item belonging to Natalee in all this time?  Guess they are still going to show her, huh!

So Jossy tends to believe this guy and Art Woods doesn't.  I think he saw and is telling a small part of the night's events.  I tend to give him at least a little tiny bit of credibility.  But his story is evolving or so it seems and that is always a bad sign in Aruba.

Going back to sleep. . . . . .no one should be awake this early on Sunday morning!!

.

Good morning Anna!! I got the impression when JQK was on Greta the other night that the witness produced evidence, possible the condom and clothing, and THEN they searched the water in that area and found the weight. Did anyone else pick it up that way?

[Buckeye]

I suppose this person may have witnessed part of a disposal process, say following an assault that took place somewhere else, after the assailant(s) waited near the tennis cub for an accomplice to get his boat into a specific area.

I can agree that he witnessed the disposal part.  The assualt took place at the VDS home.  Now was this guy witnessing the rape of Natalee or did she come to before Joran planned to murder her because she got the call off from the VDS residence and he realized that they were all in trouble if she lived.

In my opinion no 17 year old rapes a girl and then hits her and conveniently walks to his car where he has some sort of blanket or tarp along with weights reading and waiting for him.  This was a plan (premeditated).

San...I agree...plus it would account for his first school story of hitting her head and drowning.  If the story is true, I can see him finally offering to take her to her hotel to get her into the car at his house and then taking her to the beach...or the scream could have been from another girl that was there.  Maybe she saw Paulus at the house and could ID him and threatened Joran with it....remember..he is head of the house....he would protect his dad....or they are buddies and his dad is in on the whole thing from the beginning.

[ldstlou]

I suppose this person may have witnessed part of a disposal process, say following an assault that took place somewhere else, after the assailant(s) waited near the tennis cub for an accomplice to get his boat into a specific area.

I can agree that he witnessed the disposal part.  The assualt took place at the VDS home.  Now was this guy witnessing the rape of Natalee or did she come to before Joran planned to murder her because she got the call off from the VDS residence and he realized that they were all in trouble if she lived.

In my opinion no 17 year old rapes a girl and then hits her and conveniently walks to his car where he has some sort of blanket or tarp along with weights reading and waiting for him.  This was a plan (premeditated).

I agree...just doesn't make sense to me either. I think we are getting half of the story.

[Peaches]

I see what Sharon sees.  The "face" is upside down for me.

Good morning all.  I hope Tom can reconstruct the prayer thread.  It is ever so handy to be able to print that out and concentrate.  All of you are in my thoughts constantly.  I'm worried sick about None and her DH.  I want a good ending for their story.  

I did catch the rerun of Kimberly last nite.  I like her.  She seems pretty persistent.  She's not afraid to say what she thinks.  I bet she really kicked butt in court.

[klaasend]

Goodmorning All - I'm going to be working and lurking this morning. I have a bunch of "real" work that I promised would be done by tomorrow.  I will be monitoring the board, just not posting.

[klaasend]

Before I go off to work I'd like to post something.  The game today starts at 2:55pm eastern time:    

[Nut44x4]

Morning all....Klass, thanks for the note to Tom re: my re-entry.
I have a huge folder saved on all my 'Nat' stuff and came across this interactive map site. I forget now where I found the link. It is a great map>>
http://www.aruba.com/pages/regionalmap.htm

I have not decided 4 sure yet as to how I feel on this 'Carlos' peep...so much of it sound pretty wild and yet some parts could fit. I agree that there is still much we do not know about this person....  

[MominTN]

I hear the story is back on Greta.  Good thing!  I just don't know what to think about the condom.  I wish he had given it to the FBI.  I don't trust Aruba or Holland with it.  I think by now they would have the dna test results.  How do they justify holding him past two months?

[terryd270]

I guess I have to think that this new witness is just a fake..  If so then why would Kalpoe's find the need to lie and find the DJ to lie for them.. I believe it started with these three and will end with these three.. There might be others involved but the main players are these three boys and their Father for the coverup..