Lively Case Discussion #479 6/25/2006

[Frijole]

Before I go off to work I'd like to post something.  The game today starts at 2:55pm eastern time:    

I was thinking the same thing this a.m. when I read the paper.  LOL  Viva Portugal!

[Frijole]

Just saw thing and thought I'd bring it over... something else to chew on.


Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 04:34 am  by MF at FOB:  
 
If I was just a witness.

If I did nothing wrong.

Even if I was an undocumented citizen.

And I cooperated with the local authorities.

And I have a very interested story and even somewhat unbelievable.

Even if I helped in getting some "evidences" no one else could have reproduced?

Why the hell am I detained?

AND WHY THE HELL IS THERE A DEFENSE ATTORNEY ASSIGNED TO ME?

[shadow]

Good morning Monkeys!

Question: In pausing the latest video I am seeing some things that may be potential clues. Does anyone have a copy or link to a copy of the video that is in a format that can be loaded into video editing software? The google video player version I've accessed is limiting.

[Easywriter]

I'm thinking this Columbian witness knew enough to get his arse into some deep chit, but not enough to dig himself out!

[Jacqueline]

New book inspired by Natalee Holloway

A Birmingham publisher has a new book out in honor of the Mountain Brook teen who disappeared last year while on a graduation trip to Aruba. "For Natalee ... A Community of Love" is a 55-page book written by Donna M. Greene. Greene, of Birmingham, is the founder and director of Community Ministry for Girls. "For Natalee" costs $20, and proceeds will go to the International Safe Travels Foundation, founded by Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty. The publisher, Will Publishing, describes "For Natalee" as an "open thank you" to all who have helped and supported the family of Natalee Holloway during the past year."

[crazybabyborg]

Morning all....Klass, thanks for the note to Tom re: my re-entry.
I have a huge folder saved on all my 'Nat' stuff and came across this interactive map site. I forget now where I found the link. It is a great map>>
http://www.aruba.com/pages/regionalmap.htm

I have not decided 4 sure yet as to how I feel on this 'Carlos' peep...so much of it sound pretty wild and yet some parts could fit. I agree that there is still much we do not know about this person....  

Oh you are right, nut! That's a great map! Thank you so much!!!!

[klaasend]

Good morning Monkeys!

Question: In pausing the latest video I am seeing some things that may be potential clues. Does anyone have a copy or link to a copy of the video that is in a format that can be loaded into video editing software? The google video player version I've accessed is limiting.

You can try it from here:

http://www.aru-bay.com/images/smallmovie17.mov

[shadow]

Good morning Monkeys!

Question: In pausing the latest video I am seeing some things that may be potential clues. Does anyone have a copy or link to a copy of the video that is in a format that can be loaded into video editing software? The google video player version I've accessed is limiting.

You can try it from here:

http://www.aru-bay.com/images/smallmovie17.mov

Thank you Klass! Unfortunately I need it converted from quicktime for me to truly analyze it using my software. I'll keep trying.  

[crazybabyborg]

I'm thinking this Columbian witness knew enough to get his arse into some deep chit, but not enough to dig himself out!

Me too, Easy. And I'm fearful that all those folks that helped cover up a crime to begin with, are making sure that the witness is buried deep. At this point, it's their own arse they are covering up.

[ala_gunslinger]

Jacobs is still at ALE, right? A credible witness being held this long in Aruba, is a scary thing, IMO. He may have gone in as credible, but there's a lot of folks who have their own a$$ to protect via what they've covered up, and the last thing they want is for the truth to come out now! Their reputations have already been tarnished and truth that nails the very suspects they've done so much to protect, is not good news for them.

If this guy were being held out of their reach, I'd feel a lot better.

Sorry, I'm on a soapbox right now. There are road signs that might inspire a little more confidence..................like Beth being asked to ID the fabric, or results of the DNA testing on a condom. Or, the FBI receiving a portion of the condom for their own testing. The absence of what would be expected, is very worrisome to me.

According to my sources, the FBI did receive a sample for DNA testing...

Hey ya'll!

[Buckeye]

Just saw thing and thought I'd bring it over... something else to chew on.


Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 04:34 am  by MF at FOB:  
 
If I was just a witness.

If I did nothing wrong.

Even if I was an undocumented citizen.

And I cooperated with the local authorities.

And I have a very interested story and even somewhat unbelievable.

Even if I helped in getting some "evidences" no one else could have reproduced?

Why the hell am I detained?

AND WHY THE HELL IS THERE A DEFENSE ATTORNEY ASSIGNED TO ME?

I read this too.  Of course, MF is trying to paint him as a suspect....however...if I recall, lying as a witness is an issue, not lying as a suspect....so maybe someone got him a lawyer due to his "witness" information.

[Easywriter]

I'm thinking this Columbian witness knew enough to get his arse into some deep chit, but not enough to dig himself out!

Me too, Easy. And I'm fearful that all those folks that helped cover up a crime to begin with, are making sure that the witness is buried deep. At this point, it's their own arse they are covering up.

Yeah, I am back to my old theory.  In the beginning a few people thought it would be a simple problem to fix for and old friend that had a little clout.  They've probably done such things many times.  But, this case got on fire in the American media, because of a very perseverant Mother driven to find answers.

That fact caused the cover-up to snowball and become bigger than the crime.  Now, there seems to be no way out without capsizing a Caribbean island!

[wreck]

I'm thinking this Columbian witness knew enough to get his arse into some deep chit, but not enough to dig himself out!

Me too, Easy. And I'm fearful that all those folks that helped cover up a crime to begin with, are making sure that the witness is buried deep. At this point, it's their own arse they are covering up.

Yeah, I am back to my old theory.  In the beginning a few people thought it would be a simple problem to fix for and old friend that had a little clout.  They've probably done such things many times.  But, this case got on fire in the American media, because of a very perseverant Mother driven to find answers.

That fact caused the cover-up to snowball and become bigger than the crime.  Now, there seems to be no way out without capsizing a Caribbean island!

Absolutely! However, I think it is bigger than a simple "favor" for a friend. I think it was a conscious decision that a "simple missing person" case was going to be less damaging to their tourist reputation than a "murder case." I think that decision came from VERY high up in Aruba.
They had no idea that the "yokels" from Alabama would be so persistent.

[AZLady]

I'm still convinced the rape happened at the VDS home and Paulus was involved.  Natalee became conscious at some point, got off a phone call, and Paulus told Joran to get rid of her.  He knew she could identify him and his son, and she would make trouble for them, so Joran could not just drop her off at the hotel or beach as he had "twenty or so times before."

Joran made arrangements with someone with a boat (Koen?) to meet him in deep water off the lighthouse point.  This was most likely the reason for the rendezvous at the Racquet Club and Paulus' ATM withdrawal--to meet and pay for the weights/boat.   He took Natalee to the lighthouse area, killed her and wrapped her body in something.  I think a boat met Joran out in the ocean carrying weights to attach to the body and sink it.  Joran could not have swum a body with weights attached to it out to deep water.  So, someone else and his boat are also involved.  Joran floated her out to sea, keeping an eye on the boat light in the distance.  When he got to the boat, they wrapped the body in the weights and let it sink.  

The Columbian was most likely at the lighthouse point to meet another boat, a drug runner.  That might be why he slept there in his car, waiting for his drug pickup.  Perhaps that is why he has a defense lawyer and is being held in jail for two months--they will press drug charges against him.  This man went to Jossy for the reward money.  If he needs money badly enough to risk the wrath of the VDS's and their accomplices, then he would not flinch at running a few drugs with his Columbian connections.  However, a witness who has felony drug charges lacks the credibility of a witness without drug charges, so is KJ in a pickle with what to do with him?  Interesting conundrum.

[AZLady]

Hey, JerryinOhio!  I'm a buckeye, too, transplanted to AZ.  Did you know buckeyes grow and thrive in this desert heat?     I grew up in Ashland and went to college in Akron.  My extended family is still there in Ashland and has been for many generations.

[Kat_Gram]

Morning all....Klass, thanks for the note to Tom re: my re-entry.
I have a huge folder saved on all my 'Nat' stuff and came across this interactive map site. I forget now where I found the link. It is a great map>>
http://www.aruba.com/pages/regionalmap.htm

I have not decided 4 sure yet as to how I feel on this 'Carlos' peep...so much of it sound pretty wild and yet some parts could fit. I agree that there is still much we do not know about this person....  

This is a relly great map. O   ne of the better ones. I am going to book mark it so I don't keep asking the same question again and again.

[AZLady]

The significance of the tape taken in the casino showing Paulus sitting next to Natalee and talking to her seems more obvious now.  Paulus told Joran to drug one of the girls at the table and bring her home for some "fun."  I don't think it's the first time they did this, as Joran said in his Greta interview.  Usually, the girls are unconsious the whole time and don't remember what happened to them.  They are dropped off near their hotel and go home with no one the wiser.  

However, this time, Natalee didn't drink as much of her drink as they thought.  Remember, she didn't really like to drink alcohol, contrary to Deepak and Joran's statements.  I would guess she drank enough to render her unconscious until she came to after being raped at the PVDS home and got off a phone call.  Paulus knew she would remember him from sitting next to him at the casino, and told Joran to get rid of her permanently this time.  Had Natalee stayed in an unconscious state, she might have been dropped at the Marriott beach and found the next morning, as the others were.  Since she could identify them, she was taken to the lighthouse beach, hit in the head until unconscious (or dead), and then drowned at sea as I described in an earlier post.  

So many of these clues are beginning to fall into place now.

[AZLady]

I agree that the interactive map is very good.  I also like this one at http://arubayp.com/mappages.html?PageNumber=1.  Just click on the next pages from the Aruban phone book and you see a detailed street map of Aruba.

[Peaches]

AZlady:  I agree with you and with Terry.  In the end, it's going to come down to the three "boys" and PVDS.  There may be a lot of other creeps involved but it starts with these four.  

I think the dark car could well have been the VDS car with Joran driving.  It certainly wouldn't be the first time he did something illegal or "against house rules".  And I would never buy that he doesn't know HOW to drive.  My daughter is 15 and has been behind the wheel since 14 (practicing in the subdivision).  

I'd feel better if the columbian were in protective custody somewhere else.  Anywhere else.

Enough of the BS already.

[AZLady]

AZlady:  I agree with you and with Terry.  In the end, it's going to come down to the three "boys" and PVDS.  There may be a lot of other creeps involved but it starts with these four.  

I think the dark car could well have been the VDS car with Joran driving.  It certainly wouldn't be the first time he did something illegal or "against house rules".  And I would never buy that he doesn't know HOW to drive.  My daughter is 15 and has been behind the wheel since 14 (practicing in the subdivision).  

I'd feel better if the columbian were in protective custody somewhere else.  Anywhere else.

Enough of the BS already.

Peaches, the Columbian might be in "protective" custody, but I also think he is in custody for a crime he committed like drug running or something.  It's a catch-22, and they are holding him for another crime but perhaps he'll provide witness testimony in exchange for not being charged with the drug crimes or whatever else he did.