Lively Case Discussion #479 6/25/2006

[AZLady]

Remember Deepak's comment to Joran in the police car:  "Your own father!"  I think he was expressing disgust that Paulus would participate in the rape of Natalee and then tell his son to dispose of her permanently because she could identify him.  We've all said all along that Joran was protecting someone--that would be Paulus.

[AZLady]

And, Joran's arrogance and confidence that he would get away with this stem from the fact that Paulus told him what to do.  He was following his Dad's requests and orders.  In his warped mind, Joran is both protecting his father and absolving himself of responsibility for doing anything wrong because he did what his Dad told him to do.  That is how he has the chutzpah to do those interviews on TV and thinks he is so believeable.  I wonder if the delays in arresting anyone stem from KJ putting together a case that includes Paulus as well as Joran.  Because of Paulus' knowledge of the system and previous coverups and preparation, that would be a more difficult case to present and have it succeed.  However, the father is as culpable as the son, and more so than the Kalpoes, in my opinion.

[Easywriter]

I wonder how much the “witness” embellished his story in an effort to get the reward money.  If he simply saw someone taking a body into the water, I don’t think any of us would have a problem believing him.  It’s the other details that make all of us scratch our heads.  It just doesn’t sound right and doesn’t fit into any of the other possible scenarios.

[Hotshot]

Good morning Monkeys!

Question: In pausing the latest video I am seeing some things that may be potential clues. Does anyone have a copy or link to a copy of the video that is in a format that can be loaded into video editing software? The google video player version I've accessed is limiting.

You can try it from here:

http://www.aru-bay.com/images/smallmovie17.mov

Thank you Klass! Unfortunately I need it converted from quicktime for me to truly analyze it using my software. I'll keep trying.  

Try this...."ImTOO DVD" It has helped me convert alot.

[AZLady]

Easy, I wonder how many of the embellishments were told to the police after the story was told to Jossy.  Perhaps that is the source of Jossy's discomfort with the witness and the story.

[Frijole]

Just saw thing and thought I'd bring it over... something else to chew on.


Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 04:34 am  by MF at FOB:  
 
If I was just a witness.

If I did nothing wrong.

Even if I was an undocumented citizen.

And I cooperated with the local authorities.

And I have a very interested story and even somewhat unbelievable.

Even if I helped in getting some "evidences" no one else could have reproduced?

Why the hell am I detained?

AND WHY THE HELL IS THERE A DEFENSE ATTORNEY ASSIGNED TO ME?

I read this too.  Of course, MF is trying to paint him as a suspect....however...if I recall, lying as a witness is an issue, not lying as a suspect....so maybe someone got him a lawyer due to his "witness" information.

Yeah.. I sure hope so Buckeye.... this is gettin real old.  We are even learning their system ---     We put ole what's her name (Arleen) right out of a job.

[AZLady]

Just saw thing and thought I'd bring it over... something else to chew on.


Posted: Sun Jun 25th, 2006 04:34 am  by MF at FOB:  
 
If I was just a witness.

If I did nothing wrong.

Even if I was an undocumented citizen.

And I cooperated with the local authorities.

And I have a very interested story and even somewhat unbelievable.

Even if I helped in getting some "evidences" no one else could have reproduced?

Why the hell am I detained?

AND WHY THE HELL IS THERE A DEFENSE ATTORNEY ASSIGNED TO ME?

I read this too.  Of course, MF is trying to paint him as a suspect....however...if I recall, lying as a witness is an issue, not lying as a suspect....so maybe someone got him a lawyer due to his "witness" information.

It's not uncommon in the US for the police to hold a witness to a crime under charges for a different crime.  The problem is that the witness loses credibility in court if it is revealed he or she is a felon.  So maybe they are considering whether or not to charge this witness with some other crime.  This is a reason to hold the witness, but it could backfire in court.

[Anna]

Remember Deepak's comment to Joran in the police car:  "Your own father!"  I think he was expressing disgust that Paulus would participate in the rape of Natalee and then tell his son to dispose of her permanently because she could identify him.  We've all said all along that Joran was protecting someone--that would be Paulus.

AZLady,
I am in agreement with what you are posting as the most likely scenario.
Natalee was NOT the big boozer she is portrayed to be and by Sunday night, especially if she started the day with a drink, I would suspect she was plenty tired of it and possibly close to nausea also.  

Been there done that.  Have also "pretended" to keep up with others drinking so they would not know I wasn't as into it as they were and not be considered a party pooper.  Have dumped many drinks into potted plants, down the toilet or sink.  While I have developed much more tolerance over the years and a taste for Scotch, I cannot until this day finish a beer.  Second half starts to gag me.  

BOC says it is because it is not cold enough and I must drink faster which I think is correct.   Natalee possibly drank only enough to knock her out and it wore off far more quickly than in the "twenty other times that nothing happened"!  I tend to think she regained her senses and had plenty to say to these punks and it was not about sharks!  Therefore, she had to go.  I am still not certain if only the four are involved or Joran had invited others to his little private party.  There is something wrong among that group evidenced by their flight from One Happy Fecalruba.

What is chilling to the bone is that if this witness is telling the truth is the cold and calculated manner in which Joran dispatched with his "problem" as it is nothing short of premeditated.  Where have we heard that word before??  Has this happened before with girls from South America whose disappearance we do not know about?  How could a seventeen year old do such a cold and calculated thing given his cushy upbringing?  Well, he did have a history of beating up on others and a rage problem.  


 

[Easywriter]

Easy, I wonder how many of the embellishments were told to the police after the story was told to Jossy.  Perhaps that is the source of Jossy's discomfort with the witness and the story.

Not sure.  I do know that Jossy was ready to dismiss the guy after the first meeting, but was urged by those in this country to continue the talks.  Apparently there was enough to his story that ALE sent divers into the water where the guy described the event taking place.  That says something.  What, I am not sure.

[klaasend]

Sharon - Debbie at BFN has it uploaded here also if you want to try it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_X1QfGcQfU

[Anna]

.
Easy,
Could Dave have wanted Jossy to talk to the witness instead of Woods because of the language problem?  I would think Jossy could communicate so much better with him as I am sure Jossy speaks fluent Spanish.  Woods doesn't so how the heck would he know what the guy was saying?

Also since when did Fecalruba get so concerned about a few drugs coming   into their country?  Why would that be such an issue with this person when they are everywhere?  I could suggest that they check their Free Trade Zone if they want to find drugs and leave that out of the equation in regard to this one witness to a crime.  Their priorities never cease to amaze me.  Always skewed in favor of these suspects, too.

.

[WidgetTheMidget]

MOrning All .................

Mets In Front 4-1 ...............

The Weather Is Cloudy & The Track Is Fast ...............

JUDGEMENT AT NUREMBURG ..............

We Need Portugal To Beat Holland Today To Have News

This Week Or We Have To Wait Til Next Week .........

Joran Will Be At The Game Today .................

 

[Anna]

.
I listened to the replay and I guess Kimberly G did give Jossy quite a bit of time but she tries to control him too much by asking specific questions and wants him to just answer.

What I like about Dana is he will allow Jossy to speak more or less freely.  That works better for me.  I will miss having a discussion on tonight with him.  Maybe he will be back soon.

.

[Nut44x4]

Just going to post something I just said on BFN. I know here we usually do not discuss 'how Beth looks', because it is irrelevant and anyone with a heart knows why she is in pain...but I felt I should bring my post here regardless.......I hope I do not offend anyone.

I have noticed in past weeks, months.....etc....on other boards (good and bad, nat support/nat hate sites) that many people talk about how Beth looks....
Damn it, how would you look if you had gone through all this!! Has anyone even considered she (Beth) may be under a Doc's care for all that has transpired. If, indeed she is, it would explain a lot. Prob. she is taking some much needed tranquilizers, etc. Am I the only one on any of these boards that think this??......Why is Beth's 'looks' even important!! MY GOD, look what the woman has been through!! Valium worked for me during times like this and people said I looked spazzed out, different.....weird, and acted the same in different settings.
Sorry....had to say this. This woman has been through HELL and is still there.

[klaasend]

MOrning All .................

Mets In Front 4-1 ...............

The Weather Is Cloudy & The Track Is Fast ...............

JUDGEMENT AT NUREMBURG ..............

We Need Portugal To Beat Holland Today To Have News

This Week Or We Have To Wait Til Next Week .........

Joran Will Be At The Game Today .................

 

[Easywriter]

.
Easy,
Could Dave have wanted Jossy to talk to the witness instead of Woods because of the language problem?  I would think Jossy could communicate so much better with him as I am sure Jossy speaks fluent Spanish.  Woods doesn't so how the heck would he know what the guy was saying?

Also since when did Fecalruba get so concerned about a few drugs coming   into their country?  Why would that be such an issue with this person when they are everywhere?  I could suggest that they check their Free Trade Zone if they want to find drugs and leave that out of the equation in regard to this one witness to a crime.  Their priorities never cease to amaze me.  Always skewed in favor of these suspects, too.

.

I think the guy first told his story to Jossy after a third party put them together.  Jossy then asked Wood to sit in on the next interview.  Wood didn't think much of the story, or the witness and told him to take it to KJ.  Jossy kind of backed off after that and I am glad he did.  He was becoming too involved and was prepared to take some risk that could have caused problems for him.

[Easywriter]

Just going to post something I just said on BFN. I know here we usually do not discuss 'how Beth looks', because it is irrelevant and anyone with a heart knows why she is in pain...but I felt I should bring my post here regardless.......I hope I do not offend anyone.

I have noticed in past weeks, months.....etc....on other boards (good and bad, nat support/nat hate sites) that many people talk about how Beth looks....
Damn it, how would you look if you had gone through all this!! Has anyone even considered she (Beth) may be under a Doc's care for all that has transpired. If, indeed she is, it would explain a lot. Prob. she is taking some much needed tranquilizers, etc. Am I the only one on any of these boards that think this??......Why is Beth's 'looks' even important!! MY GOD, look what the woman has been through!! Valium worked for me during times like this and people said I looked spazzed out, different.....weird, and acted the same in different settings.
Sorry....had to say this. This woman has been through HELL and is still there.

I think Beth always looks nice and she comes across as a very sweet, caring person.  At times I fear she is too trusting in her effort to get answers, but that is understandable.  I think that cherished trait in her personality was also very prevalent in Natalee's character.  Unfortunately, it cost the sweetheart her life.

[AZLady]

Frankly, I think Beth is beautiful.  Her behavior and her demeanor are admirable.  I do not see any inconsistencies considering the circumstances under which she is living.  She is a strong, beautiful, capable woman who deserves all of our admiration and support.

[crazybabyborg]

There hasn't been an opportunity for follow-up, but I'd really like to ask Jossy about the possibility of the enrtrance/exit security footage at the casino. The guy next to Nat, that looks like Paulus, had to come in and out, and I'd like to know what time that was, and mostly see a better image of him. That should nail it down as to whether that's Paulus or not. They have the footage of Nat and Joran, so why not this "Paulus look alike"?

[AZLady]

I need to go to son's home today and help him with getting it ready to sell.  I'll be back, maybe not tonight, but tomorrow.  I do feel we will see a trial and resolution to this case, eventually.  It will happen and justice will prevail.  See ya, Monkeys.