Lively Case Discussion #479 6/25/2006

[oldfart]

<<snip>>
[I didn’t read the transcript, but I did see them applauding each other for getting it published.  Funny how none of them would mention where it was published.  I wonder why their hero did not get it on the front page of her rag.

I you want more info.. I think I can find the CHIT again.
E-mail me or we can go thru a 3rd pary if you want to.

[ospainter]

Remember Deepak's comment to Joran in the police car:  "Your own father!"  I think he was expressing disgust that Paulus would participate in the rape of Natalee and then tell his son to dispose of her permanently because she could identify him.  We've all said all along that Joran was protecting someone--that would be Paulus.

I agree with that.  That is what I have always made of that comment.  "your own father, unbelievable."  Deepak might be bad but he cannot believe a "father," particularly one in position of law enforcement, would behave in such a manner.  "I do what my family tells me..." Joran's comment in that same conversation.  Yes, he is protecting his father.

Hi everyone,

Those statements speak volumes. Says it all.

Would "your own father" direct his son to dispose of Natalee, do it himself, or have someone else to do it? I don't believe that Jvds was the one to dispose of Natalee. I believe he would have gotten as far away as possible from Natalee immediately after she died. JMO.

I also wonder about the "cloth", how did it get on the east side of the island, if Natalee was put into the ocean on the west? I can't get past that. Can someone help me with that? Evidence of her blouse tells me she was in that area.

My DH is not doing well right now, don't know what is going on. Losing all his strength, tired all the time. Dr. Monday said he can do what he wants. He is 8 weeks post op. Maybe depression is setting in. I don't know, but p;ease remember him in prayer. I thought by pass was to make you feel better, like he said "I was able to work the day before."

Back to lurking,

I pray for all in need, my heart is with you.


OS

[Hotshot]

Afternoon monkeys.

Mr. BT and my co-worker from Ecuador watched England vs. Ecuador in the world cup together while I went to church this morning.

I'm happy to report that no bloodshed occurred, and co-worker has now returned home all in one piece.

Phew!

Isn't it amazing how many brawls break out at those games!  They need to learn how to play REAL football!  

Unfortunately, they think they ARE playing real football.  

If there were more body slams on the field, there would be less need for the fans to shoot each other! lol  Believe it or not there is some wisdom in that post

Thats because some people we know are there!!!!!  LOL  "agree"

[oldfart]

OS
You and DH are in my thoughts...

Top material on East vs West side... ? ESP. with this new(questionalble witness) has me in a whirl-pool too.

Buried and moved would have been possible but now ?

Just wish ALE would let a few more facts out thay Might help bring others that saw someghing ( and have not connected the dots) forward.

[oldfart]

See Ya Byee Monkeys

cold meds kicking in and Nap time calling

[ospainter]

Someone please make me stop reading those “OTHER” sites!!!!  

At least I have resisted signing up for any of them and posting what I think of their very disturbing point of views.  Those sick creatures can really make a person question humanity and wonder why internet access is allowed in mental institutions.  I thought in the past only crayons were allowed.  I guess they ate all of those and began to wax poetic on their bed sheets!

Easy,

I had to quit "going there" it was affecting my BP and my outlook on life. It is scary to think that "people like them" are actually walking the streets of our great country. They are everything "bad and ugly" IMO.

You are better than them, they have nothing to offer, they are liars, it is not good for ones health to go there.

OS

[mrs. red]

Why exactly would one do a transcript of a show that is pod cast... there is the ability to hear it anytime one wishes....

[Easywriter]

Easy
If you happen on this and have a chance please try to find out...What the possilbe fine is to a Casion for allowing repeated undeage gambling to occur by an individual?
ie.   Hou much police overtime would it pay for in man hours? A day, a week or a month or more.   Just wondering
Thanks

The question has been asked and no answers were given.  I don’t think there is any real law enforcement on that island.  Only those that seem to be in political opposition to the ruling party have to pay the consequences.  Everyone on the island seems to be content with that system as long as the money keeps rolling in, when that falters, we start to see a different side of that contentment.

A man of law not only allows his underage son to spend his free time in casinos and tourist bars, but joins him in that endeavor.  That alone should tell us something about the mindset of Aruban Law Enforcement.

A few years ago I spent a long weekend in this lazy little town in Louisiana that reeked with history and was nestled along a bend in the Mississippi River.  The owner and hostess of the B&B in which we stayed told us about the many things to see in the immediate area and then told us that on Sundays the little downtown are would be closed unless the horn on the riverboat blew three times.  Sure enough that Sunday morning the horn blew loud and clear and all the little shops flung open their doors.

The reason I mention that story, is because I think something similar happens on Aruba.  Word begins to spread quickly when a group of young tourists are on the island and the last night is the target night.  I think it is a pattern that has been repeated several times by the “sporters” on that island until one young jerk that thought he was above the law took it too damn far!

That male Prima Dona should be held accountable for buckling the knees of this island, but it want happen.  There are just too many skeletons in the closet, both figuratively and in reality.

[Easywriter]

Where is that edit button when a guy needs it.....  

[mrs. red]

OS.. you and your DH will be in our prayers.

[Peaches]

Did anybody ever determine what Julia's hubby does for a living?  Would he be connected to law enforcement (or lack thereof)?  Or is he perhaps in the hospitality industry?  Hotel?  Casino?  Just curious.

I don't understand why she has been privy to these videotapes that nobody else seems to have seen.  Just doesn't make sense.  But then what does make sense down there?

[Peaches]

OS.. you and your DH will be in our prayers.

Definitely.  It is probably a depression thing.   My dad fell into that following surgery for an abdominal aortic aneurysm a few years ago.  It eventually worked itself out.  Definitely something to discuss with the doctor.  Perhaps some anti-depressants would help get him over the hump in his recovery.

[Easywriter]

Do I have bad breath today?  

[Peaches]

Guess it's you and me here, Easy.

The pic just posted:  The guy in the dark blue shirt with his head down.  Same hairline without glasses.  Looks like him to me.

So much for the idea he doesn't like to gamble.

[nomad]

Hello Monkeys!

A BIG thank you to Tom, Red and Mrs. Red for having the forum back up!  

Also, thank you Nut44X4 for the great map!

I hope everyone is well today.

This is a fairly long post - sorry!


This Colombian witness and the water conditions at Arashi Beach raised questions in my mind as to whether Joran could perform the feat of taking a body and weights as far as the reef.
After reaching the reef, all he would have to do is get it over the reef  into the strong currents that would carry the body away, or weight it down there.

I have two problems with this:
    1.  Where would these currents carry the body?  Possibly back to the shore?  Or out to Panama?  
    2.  The Arashi Beach area is VERY popular for diving and snorkeling with good water clarity. If Natalee  were weighted down there the chance for discovery by divers/snorkelers appears  VERY likely.  Now I'm back to the need for a boat to move her to a remote area.

I did some searching and came up with the following interesting, informative entries from various sites re: snorkeling/diving Arashi Beach.

snipets:

North Point: Arashi Beach: "Beautiful water and sand, Remote"
Jan 16, 2006:  A TripAdvisor Member, Woodbridge, NJ
   
We went to this beach at the end of our Jeep 4x4 tour and absolutely loved it. This beach is a bit more secluded and less commercialized than the other popular beaches. Some shade is provided by the overhangs that they have on the beach (they resemble bus stops complete with benches). This beach does not have any facilities so you have to rough it a bit if you are going to spend a significant amount of time there. The water is gorgeous with some light-moderate waves (more on the light side). There was a sand bar about 20 ft out that everyone was standing on. The water is calm for the most part and clear. There are no chairs at this beach so you have to bring a towel or something to lay on. Such a peaceful way to spend part of the day!


                                   
There are two main areas to dive. As you stand facing the sea, the main reef is to your right, about 150 meters into the ocean. Look for a small white buoy floating in the water. This is the achor point for the boat trips, so it is a good pointer where to aim for when looking for the main reef. Be aware that the current can be very strong once you pass the reef.

On our visits there we saw a great variaty of tropical fish, including angel fish. The fish are often in large groups. We also saw 3 sea turtles, some octopus, crabs and crayfish. The water on the reef can vary from 15 feet in depth to less than one foot. she water is usually pretty clear, but can get a bit murky on very windy days. This reef was my personal favourite spot.

The second area at Arashi is just off to your left from the parking area, right by the beach. The best place is in the area in front of the house next to the parking area.
                                           

Arashi has a long strip of beautiful white sand and turquise water. The surf is rougher here than at Baby Beach, but still good for kids since it is shallow.

end of snipets

Also, if you go the the map site Nut44x4 posted and c l i c k on the virtual map view,
c l i c k again on the Arashi Beach area, a window pops up with a 360 degree tour of the area.  This gives a very good perspective of the beach and surrounding area - especially the parking area and houses on the left side of the beach as you face the sea.

There is another excellent overall picture from a tourists photo album at this link:
                                                   
                http://donwiss.com/pictures/Aruba-2005/0006.jpg

Here are some of my thoughts based on the above entries and the pictures:

    1. It was possible for Joran to move Natalee's body to the reef given the shallow water depth, the presence of a sandbar 20 some feet from shore, relatively calm water.  It would help to know the proximity of the sandbar to the reef, how wide the reef is (this would have to be crossed to reach the strong currents), the direction of the currents.

    2.  Looking at the pictures of the parking area and the abundance of trees/bushes, it would appear this could be the area where the Colombian parked.  However, where is this parking area in relation to the rocks ?  

Anyone have any thoughts?  So many questions!  And I continue to also be very confused. Thanks!

OS ...... I am so sorry to hear your DH is not doing well. I just said a prayer for you both, and will continue to keep you in my thoughts and prayers. God Bless!

[Easywriter]

Guess it's you and me here, Easy.

The pic just posted:  The guy in the dark blue shirt with his head down.  Same hairline without glasses.  Looks like him to me.

So much for the idea he doesn't like to gamble.

I guess so.  How are you doing?  I have not felt well for several days, but my problems are different than yours.

[Anna]

.
Mrs Red,
The podcast was translated, so they claim, into Papiamento so those on the island who do not understand English could understand it.  I guess the idea is to let people know Jossy has broken rank or is fraternizing with the cowboys?  Some attempt to embarrass him it seems.

.

[mrs. red]

.
Mrs Red,
The podcast was translated, so they claim, into Papiamento so those on the island who do not understand English could understand it.  I guess the idea is to let people know Jossy has broken rank or is fraternizing with the cowboys?  Some attempt to embarrass him it seems.

.

I see, I thought everyone on one unhappy island spoke English...

[Peaches]

Easy, I'm feeling pretty good.  Next chemo is July 5th.  Then I get to feel crappy for four or five days.  What fun.  

I'm sorry you don't feel tip-top.  Sucks to not feel good enough to do what you want to do when you want to do it.

Jossy looked good on the Lineup the other nite.  Is he in Miami right now or in Aruba?  I couldn't make out the skyline behind him.

[mrs. red]

Easy, I'm feeling pretty good.  Next chemo is July 5th.  Then I get to feel crappy for four or five days.  What fun.  

I'm sorry you don't feel tip-top.  Sucks to not feel good enough to do what you want to do when you want to do it.

Jossy looked good on the Lineup the other nite.  Is he in Miami right now or in Aruba?  I couldn't make out the skyline behind him.

seemed like Miami to me... but I am prolly wrong...

Nomad thanks for that post off of trip advisor... it's very interesting...