Lively Case Discussion #486 7/3 - 7/4/2006

[Sleuth]

Sorry Slueth.  I hope I didn't offend you. I thought you were talking about the other FP poster re: Joran.  

SunFreak2 - no offense at all.  Not for one second...

[Sleuth]

AZLady -  

I actually can spell. My problem is that I have a habit of submitting first and spell checking after  

Sleuth, I am unsure if I can spell any longer.  If I recall correctly my classmates predicted I would grow up to be an English teacher based on my accurate spelling alone, but with computers, I quit thinking about spelling because spell-check was too easy, as with calculators, I no longer enjoy my former math skills.  They are like my figure, all went south.

 

[Sleuth]

BTW mrs.red and Klaasend, as far as I am concerned, our Cage is a MUCH cleaner place tonight!    

I think y'all know what (or who) I'm talking about... hehehehe. I'm surprised it took this long!

Yep, Klaas was singing as she cleaned the toilets earlier  

[spooky112483]

HAPPY FREEDOM DAY Monkeys!!!
God Bless America
Everyone have a safe 4th and much fun to all. Remember our fallen heros that gave their lives so that on this day we could eat bar b que, drink beer, swim in the pool and be with our loved ones.
LET FREEDOM RING

[Sleuth]

So true Spooky.  Good morning to you, and Happy 4th...

[the big hammer]

Bailey Anne

sb writes:  "You have to wonder what the difference is between the "Bailey Ann" incident and Natalee..."

Revisiting the episode and events surrounding Bailey Anne and her friend Alyse is important to case and one of key factors for those who have followed case in detail to understanding modus.  Before the crash, there was a thread that sought to detail the similarities and differences between the events: Bailey Anne vs Natalee.

The similarities of the events leading up to the nite of the pix w/ Loco Stefy naked in bed are remarkable to the reported known events of Natalee.  And one could further extrapolate these events as happening numerous times before March 2005, and after, as well.

As noted by sb, the differences are important to catalog, as they help to illuminate the entire event:

1.  3 Girls VS 1 Girl: This highlights the potential for sinister forethought as part of plan.  The mitigating influence of a group of females significantly changes male group dynamics attached to assault.  Natalee was at a severe disadvantage here.

2.  The Bait: Stefy VS jvds:  The work of Stefy, imo, demonstrates a more practiced approach to events surrounding luring, especially when "wedding modeling" is factored in.  Further executed in conjunction  w/ Freddie, who has, by nature of criminal charges lodged, done plenty of this type of thing before.  And aspects of the luring may have been consensual, though of course this is not known. This changes as jvds turns into the "bait".  With male as bait, dynamics again change -- further, and importantly it is highly unlikely that jvds was "bait" in the sense used to describe Stefy.  More likely is that for jvds to play bait role, he would have had to deceive: "it's a cab, I'm 19, exchange student, staying at HI, want a lift..."

3.  Freddy VS Satish:  While both episodes feature 3 males as front players, one of the key differences is the lineup change.  As mentioned above, the involvement of Freddy suggests practiced engagement in this type of (criminal) activity.  But factoring in Satish in the events surrounding Natalee, puts a younger and unpracticed male in the middle of the action.  And that is bad.  IMO, a more "experienced perp" may have cancelled event that was planned...and indeed, a reading of the Skeeter transcripts, Deepak's statements made public, suggests that Deepak was "concerned" and he stated at one point that he knew he should have never left jvds alone w/ the girl (or words to that effect).  Common sense would tell an experienced perp that secreting away a single female w/ over 100 of her friends nearby could have a bad outcome.

4.  Vehicle Rear Seating:  The controller of victim sits w/ prize in back seat:  Freddie/Stefy w/ Alyse/Bailey VS jvds w/ Natalee.  The boys all have a specific and pre-planned role to play and their roles are facilitated by their seating choices.  The seating in rear passenger seats is significant -- the controller of victim, also bears some responsibility to male group for outcome, ie, choice of venue, return of victim(s) to place of staying and clean get-away for all.  Hence, the Mill Resort as venue for Bailey/Alyse, right next door to Wyndham, where they were staying.  But with jvds w/ Natalee, there is set up a potentially bad situation.  As we know, an immature sociopath w/ known violent tendencies is "in charge" of a likely incapcitated female who is half his size.

5.  Vehicle Front Seating: jvds vs. Satish.  This player runs the dvd porn playing in the vehicle, and has another role that is undefined.  But imo, this seating choice/assignment is important for nite's planned episode.  It suggests, imo, that after drop off (Deepak driving in both episodes), this player "assists" -- possibly as camera operator, participant, facilitator or all of this.  And indeed, the picture of loco Stefy had to come from somewhere and had to be taken by someone...and that would be jvds, imo.  It is highly likely therefore that Satish was on the scene, and that is part of the reason he has been kept quiet.

There are other "differences" as well in the 2 known episodes.  But the chain reaction which led to "something bad happening" is captured in a combination of the known differences highlighted above.

[Easywriter]

HAPPY FOURTH of JULY!!!!!

[Easywriter]

[Leslie]

Happy 4th of July to our neighbours to the south!
KatGram:  Happy (belated) Canada Day to you, too!

Diario  July 4, 2006
http://www.diarioaruba.com/diamars/frontpage/index.html
Amigoe  
http://www.amigoe.com/english/

[Easywriter]

 

[sharon]

For those who have been trying to help me find out if there is any 'wieght' to the Hague Convention and the 60 day rule -- thank you so much! I am finding out more about the convention -- but not how and why it is invoked -- or if this is possible. It appears to be an option if the NY judge waits more than 60 days -- or rejects the case.

In JQK's civil filing, he is CLEARLY calling Natalee a 'minor' by Alabama statutes (even thought the conventin states 16). There are many similarities in the wording of the convention compared to the wording of JQK's civil filing.

Still hoping to run across someone with legal expertise -- I admit I have none.  

Found 2 more posts from 'Anonymous' on Michelle's blog on the subject:

Anonymous said...
We can fight back for Natalee to find her justice. The NYC Judge is trying to stall out the Civil Case. By Hague Convention protocol, after 60 days, and on July 17, JQK can call the Defendants Joran and Paulus for the depositions via the Court Clerk for reservation of the courtroom for media coverage. If the NYC Judge tries to interfere, the Civil Case can then go straight up to the Supreme Court. In other words, the Natalee case will be delivered directly into Geroge Bush's hands.
Fri Jun 30, 03:47:15 AM EDT

Anonymous said...
As the Civil Case is approaching July 17, JQK is endowed by the Hague Convention under the UN Charter Articles to execute the calling orders for Joran and Paulus to come to the Forum Publica for the depositions of a possible crime against a minor by drug raping and human traficking. JQK can legally book a conference room in NYC Supreme Court facilities which are paid for by the American taxpayers. Not even the Judge, the Mayor or the President can stop JQK from conducting a public service at the court building under the provision of the US Constitution. Joe T is deadly wrong on his Forum Non Convenience imagination.
Sun Jul 02, 06:45:45 PM EDT

[Jerry from Ohio]

One of the theorys about interrogation is to make the individual fear the consequences of NOT giveing information more then they fear Keeping the information that you seek to themselves .
  That is why the Isrilies and the Egyptions are so good ad interrogation they have no qualms about strikeing fear in to a suspect .
  I also do believe that we will soon enough find out that Paulis VDS has a whole lot Blacker heart then most of us ever suspected or thought imaginable .

Easywriter wrote:

Food for thought....

"The break will come. When? I don't know, but I do know that a secret between three is no secret at all!", Jossy Mansur

Okay Easy--------but which three are we talking about?

I'm thinking the 3 Amigoes.

I think at least 3, and throwing Paulus into the mix. I feel fairly certain it will not be Joran who cracks. Well, he cracked  mentally long ago, but not to crack and tell what really happened.

[cubbeegirl]

Big Hammer, thank you for another one of your well thought , articulate posts. I have always read every word of your posts and they have always given me much food for thought.

[cubbeegirl]

Good morning and Happy 4th of July to all you monkeyfaces!!!!!

[terryd270]

Gooooooooooooodmoooorning!  i'm having my coffee and just wanted to say hi to everyone..  I guess nothing was on the news last night about the case..

[Easywriter]

Good Morning and Happy 4th of July to all!

[friend of monkeys]

BTW mrs.red and Klaasend, as far as I am concerned, our Cage is a MUCH cleaner place tonight!    

I think y'all know what (or who) I'm talking about... hehehehe. I'm surprised it took this long!

Yep, Klaas was singing as she cleaned the toilets earlier  

i need a clue........anything to do with the movie warrior??  tia
happy fourth monkeys

[Easywriter]

Kinda quiet in here this morning.  Everyone already cookin' de ribs?

[Easywriter]

My neighbor just invited me and the boy to walk over for ribs this afternoon.  Said he was cooking about 40 pounds of the bad boys!  I wonder if he would let me get a couple of go plates......

[Easywriter]

Knock!  Knock!