Lively Case Discussion #486 7/3 - 7/4/2006

[mishy]

Mafia money:  
Who paid for all the lawyers Paulus hired for Joran, himself, the Kalpoes and Freddy?
How does Joran finance his $300+ a night gambling habit?
Who pays for the transcontinental trips this family takes?
Who supplied the funds for the Kalpoe family to buy the Internet Cafe last year?

great questions, AZLady!! I've been wanting to know the answers to these as well...

[Shizaru]

cubbeegirl wrote:

And do you have an idea of what that detail might be Houdini?

Not a bloody clue (pun intended).

But I think we can explore exactly what we KNOW happened from the time Natalee arrived at Carlos & Charlie's.  Joran's modus operandi was a preset, proven in the past, ritual.  Something changed in the procedure which led to dire consequences.   JMHO

What about the porn video, which is aluded to in the conversation with K2.  Did Natalee realize this was not a trip back to the Holiday Inn, or did she feel that she had to get away?  Did she ask to be returned to the HI where her friends were and did she really tell them she was a lesbian, so they would cease and decist from the porno thing?  After she realized they were not going to take her back, did a fight ensue?  Did she jump from the car?

Did they hit her with the car which was not fatal in and of itself, and then she was taken around 2 a.m. to the JVDS house, where she later died secondary to lack of medical attention.

No.  Doesn't fit with comments in the polis van conversation, which show that at least one of the three must not have been present when the "something bad" happened, and that 2K must have had the theoretical ability to harm her without Joran's knowledge (which rules out them leaving her with Joran at his apt, unless he took her out again and told them where he left her).

[mishy]

Tylergal, I hope you can go outside tonight, at least, and watch the fireworks...

[AZLady]

Online and casino gambling are very, very profitable.  If you add to this profit, the money to be made "washing" the pesos sent to Columbia and Venezuela from the drug trade, there is an enormous amount of untracked and unaccounted for money floating around this island.  I am talking about many millions of dollars every year.  The online gambling business generates a profit of about $20 million a year, estimated, and the bulk of these online casinos are based on the Caribbean islands, including Aruba.  Paulus is in a position to provide needed documents, passports, create offshore bank accounts, and other vital legal work to this trade.  Perhaps by Aruban standards, this is all legal.  However, by American standards, it is not.  Add to this that fact that 80% of these profits come from American dollars.  We have much, too much, money in this country and the Arubans and others like them are ready, willing and able to part us from our dollars with a smile.  Paulus has been doing this for some time now, and his hotheaded and out-of-control teenager is the product of this excess.  Now, ask me why there is a cover-up.  Because Paulus would do "anything to protect my son."  He told you so himself.  He has the resources.  Who has he enlisted to execute his coverup?

[Tylergal]

http://educate-yourself.org/lte/viewfromholland19nov02.shtml

users.skynet.be/terrorism/html/netherlands.htm

Lots more out there, if one is willing to take the time.

[Tylergal]

Beautiful card Jacqueline, thanks.

Hope your trip to Atlanta is safe.  Just don't look out the window. Take a Valium and a nap.

No napping, I have to watch that road for DH, he likes to look at the scenery.

I will have half a Xanax though before we leave (the dog's RX).

Cp, the reason I brought that up, was because I had an aunt and uncle, both of whom are dead now, but they loved to travel.  She could not drive.  When they were traveling, those chose to ride rather than fly because "we are always getting lost and finding the best things we would not otherwise know about..."  was their motto.  They traveled constantly and had just returned from a long trip a few days before he died.  They were putting up their Christmas tree at that time.  

To make a long story short, knowing that he was an amputee who had glaucoma and his whole body ravaged by diabetic complications, I asked her "how can you ride with him, when he cannot see well and only has one leg, which would slow down his reflexes?"

She said, "I take a Valium and say, "Mr T, watch out, there's a truck on your left and he goes to the right."

Thinking how horrible that must be, I said, "Why not learn to drive?"  

She said, "I enjoy the Valium so much, and I would not be allowed to drive if I took them, so I just help him, and at other times, take a nap.  It's all fun. If we die on the road, it was meant to be."

She always had a cavalier attitude about life even before her days of Valium which came after their daughter died from cancer, but neither died on the road, and they had traveled the world over by air and auto.  Truly amazing and they never had a wreck.

[AZLady]

Let me put it another way:  who has Paulus done favors for that he could expect a return on his past work?  Who has he helped set up off-shore accounts, assisted in filing legal documents to create bogus companies to launder cash, helped to obtain fraudulent, realistic passports and id's so to allow them to travel where they should not?  What other legal work has Paulus done for people who had something to hide?

[BTgirl]

Happy 4th Monkeys!

[Red]

More 4th of July posting:

Here is a blast from the past and I have just dated myself. Yes, I did grow up watching Saturday morning cartoons and watching School House Rocks

Schoolhouse rock Shot Heard Round The World

for a bit of nostalgia ... go take a look.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2hXvGdOnFak&search=shot%20heard%20round%20the%20world

[AZLady]

This may be stretching it, but it is a place to start.  Who on the island of Aruba is apparently wealthier than their salary and income would suggest?  Who has a home or investments or lives a lifestyle much larger than their publicized salary?  It appears that the higher civil servant jobs are much more coveted than should be in reality.  Does anyone know how well Jan van der Stratten lives as compared to the salary of a police chief?  How about Dennis Jacobs?   Very little has been said about how Karen Janssen lives, where she lives, or her likes and preferences? Do we know anyone on Aruba who can give us some feedback on what they see and what they know?

[Sue]

Happy 4th Of July Monkey's
Have a very safe and happy holiday
extra prayers for Natalee today

[Mere]

Beautiful card Jacqueline, thanks.

Hope your trip to Atlanta is safe.  Just don't look out the window. Take a Valium and a nap.

I'm way back...but I think CP is driving...

[AZLady]

We have analyzed every detail of the Kalpoes and Joran and Anita and Paulus's life.  We have looked at their friends, their clothes, their comments, and their homes.  

Now, is it time to look at these details about those suspected of being involved in the coverup?  Is it time to look at what just doesn't seem right with the people who pull the strings and call the shots in Aruba?

[AZLady]

More 4th of July posting:

Here is a blast from the past and I have just dated myself. Yes, I did grow up watching Saturday morning cartoons and watching School House Rocks

Schoolhouse rock Shot Heard Round The World

for a bit of nostalgia ... go take a look.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2hXvGdOnFak&search=shot%20heard%20round%20the%20world

Red, that Rocks!  

[Shizaru]

More 4th of July posting:

Here is a blast from the past and I have just dated myself. Yes, I did grow up watching Saturday morning cartoons and watching School House Rocks

Schoolhouse rock Shot Heard Round The World

for a bit of nostalgia ... go take a look.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2hXvGdOnFak&search=shot%20heard%20round%20the%20world

Wow, the last time saw that, it was like 1980, and I and was probably in the middle of watching Spider Man and His Amazing Friends or Thundarr or something.

[AZLady]

Okay, well, I've strewn enough kibbles and bits around for everyone to chew on.  One little personal thing--I'm going to Vegas this weekend and have tickets to Love, the new Beatles/Cirque de Soleil show at Mirage.  Ask me if I'm excited!!  

[SunFreak2]

Sunfreak - wow, great job.  I need to play around with creating animations.  Haven't had the time.

SunFreak/Klaas....How does one create animations?

Mishy, I have Paint Shop Pro that came with an animation program.  I can do some simple things, but would love to be able to do more.  One of these days......  

Made this one too!

[Mere]

Beautiful card Jacqueline, thanks.

Hope your trip to Atlanta is safe.  Just don't look out the window. Take a Valium and a nap.

No napping, I have to watch that road for DH, he likes to look at the scenery.

I will have half a Xanax though before we leave (the dog's RX).

Oops...thought CP was the driver.....

[Tylergal]

Okay, well, I've strewn enough kibbles and bits around for everyone to chew on.  One little personal thing--I'm going to Vegas this weekend and have tickets to Love, the new Beatles/Cirque de Soleil show at Mirage.  Ask me if I'm excited!!  

Oh, have fun.  I know you will.  Make a trip by Chico's while you are there.  Think of all of us who would love to be so fortunate.

[Mere]

Hi Monkeys.  Happy Fourth of July, Tyler.  I've been reading for 2 hours trying to catch up.  I hate to post when I haven't read the previous posts as I say very dumb things then!  I agree with Easy and Hammer that we need to look at the coverup if we are to ever uncover the truth of what happened to Natalee.  This is the only path that will lead us to the truth.  

Why does Paulus, a civil servant struggling to break into the higher ranks without success, wield such power as to protect his son at this high cost?  What does he know about whom?  Joran inspires fear in his compadres because they know he is without scruple and will do what they all only threaten.  Does Paulus also inspire such fear?  Is he, too, a loose cannon who will do what others only threaten and imagine?  My thoughts go back to information I uncovered through research last June-July, 2005, regarding the casinos, money laundering, gambling, and the crime syndicate (Mafia or Mob).  At the time I first introduced these ideas, they were hushed up and shushed or pooh-poohed as being totally irrelevant to Natalee.  I still believe that big, big money and professional organized crime is behind this coverup.  Posner is a known Mob associate.  How about TacoJoe?  Didn't someone say he had Mob connections?  Freddy has been traced through his brother to organized crime in Florida.  

As soon as these ideas are voiced, the distractors pop up and change the topic, or introduce new topics to steer conversation away from this, so watch and see what happens now.

I would like to ask exactly how money laundering works.....can someone track 100,000 dollars through the process.....and how does the 100,000 get back to the person who owns it.....