Lively Case Discussion #530 10/7 - 10/11/2006

[SunFreak2]

NM, Sharon and All,

Would you post more about what you perceive these decoys to be like who did them or who ordered them be done, how were they done, why, etc.?

I find the whole concept so horribly dishonest I just can't imagine why they were into this kind of thing right from the start like this.  Is it cultural or what the heck???  Distract the media for what reasons?  Just to lie and trick us or defend the goons?

The whole idea of decoys just reeks, doesn't it?   Imagine the police in this country, Canada, the UK, anywhere normal doing "decoys" like this!  They'd be fired on the spot I do believe for deception at the least.

.

I can only think of 3 reasons of why they would send "decoys" out.

They needed to get everyone away from the area they were recovering a body from.

OR

Someone was getting to close to key evidence so they sent them (the decoys) on a wild goosechase.

OR

They have so much hate that they just wanted to toy with this family, pulling on ther heart strings even harder.

Personally I believe it is the 3rd option.  I think the people of Aruba and the ALE really do HATE the American tourists who come to their island.  They hate the fact that the tourists have the money to spend, drink in their bars, cut loose and get a little wild.  They are stuck to clean our rooms, do our laundry, cook our food, clean up after us and they hate us for it.  They hate us with such a passion they will not let one (or 3) of their own go down for raping and killing one of the evil american tourists they so much despise.  Just look at the words of Charles Croes, Tito Lacle, Arelene Shipper, Gerold Dompig and many others.  They believe Natalee got what she deserved.  They all believe she was asking for it.   They believe she came to their island to do all of the things they promote and advertise - cut loose, have a good time, blow off some steam - and they hate her for it.  All they care about is the money.  Come to Aruba, give us your money and get the hell out of here - that should be their slogan.

THE DECOY:

June 11 or 12 – Julia Renfro hysterically notifies the Twittys that Natalee had been found dead and moved to the island’s courthouse.  Julia inserts herself to the Twittys’ overcrowded mini-van as they rush to the courthouse where they are met by a throng of television cameras.  The family finds the courthouse locked and apparently empty. Julia claimed her information came from a deputy information office in the justice department, but it was found that no official ever leaked the information.

[mrs. red]

that was Julia just being a bitch... wonder how much she got paid for doing that nasty little trick?  

it wasn't enough, IMO to sell your soul Julia.

[LilPuma]

Blah,
How about a little of all three?  Or a little of one and two and a lot of three?  The latter is what I think as well.  They are angry because they are on the wrong side of that bar, table, resort, etc.

And everyone knows how stupid Americans are, right?  We are highly uneducated they tell us, especially the Dutch.  Let's see--how many space shuttles, etc. do the Dutch have, I forgot!  Oh, that's right--none.  Along with lots of other things American but we are the stupid ones?  Not stupid enough to legislate slavery through prostitution, etc. fortunately.

Well, I sensed the hostility from the very beginning and just could not understand it other than the standard EU fare being parroted by the Arubans.  I recall MaryAnnCroes or Arlene saying "We are a European community"  

 Things said by those who have lost any moral compass they once had and lack the guts and spine to even stand up for their own countries to terrorists.  People who will bail and move to Australia or Canada or elsewhere before they will stand up and confront anything.  And they resent the fact we have retained so much personal freedom and are not socialists as the EU now is.

What are the stupid Americans doing with all that money when we smarter Arubans are so poor?  And a lot of Latin America likes to think the U.S. prosperous because we some how magically stole their wealth, etc. nevermind the opposite is true and we have given more in aid to the rest of the world than any dozen countries combined.

I also think Aruba had a misconception about itself and thought itself invincible.  We could do nothing to hurt tourism because they are just so wonderful, we lack the power to hurt them in that regard.  They see themselves as far more important than they really are and as a far better destination than they really are.  Outside the resort area developed by primarily American companies, that is one ugly island.   See dead burro in the dumpster if you don't believe me. . . .

They also make erroneous statements like their refinery provides us with much of our oil supply when in fact it is the other way around, we buy most of their product.  I was hoping when Katrina took out 36 refineries, they would see that and get a little more realistic picture of the scope of things.  They are truly lost in their own smallness and have a very myopic view of the rest of the world.

Just one American girl and as they keep asking like CCroes, is she worth it?  Hell yes, Charlie.  That and ten of your ugly islands!  And it is because there is a much higher principle at work--justice or the lack of it.  We haven't sold our souls out yet as you have, Aruba.  

To us, justice is still not for sale, not at any price.  And that's another thing they hate us for.

.

:::stands, cheers:::

[sharon]

Mrs Red, I never doubted your information. I was trying to show you where the 'misinformation' is stemming from.

There are others, aside from me -- who also are not 'in the know' -- who had the same incorrect impression. Now you can see why.

Gosh -- if only I had thought to email the poster when they publicly displayed their email address, I too might be 'in the know'.  

Mrs Red,  NativeLingo and CancunMole exchanged email addresses on the Front page. That's what the post was about.

And yes, klaas -- Croes is a very popular name in Aruba.

[Shizaru]

Shizaru - I'll ask Red, he should know when that date was.  You could be right about the 10th.  Maybe the August 1st day was the end of the first search and they went back.  Not sure.

I do remember that at the final search, the dogs had hit on something.  They had to stop and were never able to go back.

The last TES memeber, Joe Huston, left Aruba on 8/8.  Fire was on 8/12 and holes dug by TES were filled in on 8/15.

[Anna]

[
I can help with this.  Nativelingo's first name does begin with an "M" but it is NOT Marianne.  Nativelingo IS NOT Marianne Croes.  Don't forget, Croes is a very common name in Aruba.

But none of them are related, not even children to their parents and they don't know each other, have never met and have never seen each other anywhere on that island.  

[mrs. red]

Sharon,
I see what you are saying... hate it when I am working and lurking..  

anyway... Shiz... your TES time frame is correct, I remember thinking that Red was never going to hurry up and get home...

[mrs. red]

[
I can help with this.  Nativelingo's first name does begin with an "M" but it is NOT Marianne.  Nativelingo IS NOT Marianne Croes.  Don't forget, Croes is a very common name in Aruba.

But none of them are related, not even children to their parents and they don't know each other, have never met and have never seen each other anywhere on that island.  

so true Anna, so true...

[klaasend]

[
I can help with this.  Nativelingo's first name does begin with an "M" but it is NOT Marianne.  Nativelingo IS NOT Marianne Croes.  Don't forget, Croes is a very common name in Aruba.

But none of them are related, not even children to their parents and they don't know each other, have never met and have never seen each other anywhere on that island.  

   
I hear what you are saying Anna but in this case if, according to Red, Nativelingo resembles Angelina Jolie I find it hard to believe she's related to Steve Croes, Cheremy Croes or Rudy Croes:

Nativelingo looks like:







Unless of course she got the beauty and the brains, lol  

[San]

Anna -- I sure will. Until I figure out what I need to do to copy FP posts, my contributions will be limited, though.

klaas -- if you are around, or NM if you can copy from the FP;

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/breaking/

#416 from Gabriel Leo


I find Gabriel's first comment on the legal system very interesting -- in light of d's comment to j in the car; you will get 15 years.

     

416. I have been reading the comments and some people want to know what’s the law here

This is the law:
One who takes the life of a human beeing gets a max of 15 years (in Dutch law terms this is called doodslag). In this situation his intention were to murder but was not planning to do so.

Murder (”Moord”) Gets 20 years to life in jail. This is called premeditated murder. The premeditation has to be proven that before he is judged on these term. e.g. one has been planning for days to murder someone. Was following the victim, bought weapons, had and escape plan etc.

One who is murdered as a result of abuse e.g. was in fight and the attacker atacked the victim until he or she passed away gets a max of 12 years (”Levensberoving op verzoek”)

Those who were involved in the acts get a punishment somewhere from 3 years up to 12 years depending on the role the had with the acts.

A minor gets a low jail sentence but can be tried as an adult if there is enough proof of such.

Aruba is a part of the Ducth Kindom and therefor has the same Law as the Netherlands on Criminal grounds. This counts for Aruba, the Netherlands Antilles and The Netherlands.

On another note: Nothing is confirmed, there are so many rumors, international media is changing their stories and the local media says that nothing is confirmed and authorities deny giving such info to the international press.

I am confidend that tomorrow this entire case wil come to and end. so until than. Everyone hold on.Comment by Gabriel Leo | June 11, 2005, 3:26 am

=============================

Very interesting.

Joran was a minor the Kalpoes were not.  They had enough proof for Joran to be tried as an adult so that goes out the window.

The Kalpoes were involved up to their eyeballs so forget the 3 to 12 years depending on the role they had.

He must have been taking lessons from Dompig.

[klaasend]

San - did you hear that a helicopter just crashed into a highrise on 72nd street??

[klaasend]

San - did you hear that a helicopter just crashed into a highrise on 72nd street??

Aircraft crashes into NYC building
Unknown whether plane or chopper involved
BREAKING NEWS
NBC News and news services


Updated: 12:07 a.m. PT Oct 11, 2006
NEW YORK - An aircraft crashed into a high-rise apartment building on Manhattan's Upper East Side in New York City on Wednesday, NBC News reported. There were conflicting reports about whether it was an airplane or a chopper.

There were no immediate reports on injuries. A U.S. official told Reuters there was no reason to believe the incident was terrorism-related.

Video from the scene showed at least three buildings in the high-rise engulfed in flames. A column of gray smoke rose over the city, and raging flames could be seen in four windows on two upper floors.

According to local affiliate WNBC, officials said the aircraft was a helicopter, not a plane. That had not been confirmed by any other sources.

The crash occurred near the heliport on the East River, according to MSNBC cable.

Fire Department spokeswoman Emily Rahimi said an aircraft struck struck the 20th floor of a building on East 72nd Street. Witnesses said the crash caused a loud noise, and burning and falling debris was seen.

Check back for developments on this story.

NBC News and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15223650/

[Shizaru]

Sharon,
I see what you are saying... hate it when I am working and lurking..  

anyway... Shiz... your TES time frame is correct, I remember thinking that Red was never going to hurry up and get home...

Do you remember if Dave left Aruba the same time as Red did?  Dave must have left Aruba sometime between August 1 and Sept 15, but I can't find any mention of it online.

[klaasend]

Live video link of the NY plane crash and resulting fire.  People are trapped in the building.  They say now that it was a fixed wing aircraft.

http://tinyurl.com/g9ueq

[2NJSons_Mom]

Live video link of the NY plane crash and resulting fire.  People are trapped in the building.  They say now that it was a fixed wing aircraft.

http://tinyurl.com/g9ueq

DH called me to put it on....CBS is saying helicopter.  524 E 72nd

[klaasend]

Live video link of the NY plane crash and resulting fire.  People are trapped in the building.  They say now that it was a fixed wing aircraft.

http://tinyurl.com/g9ueq

[San]

San - did you hear that a helicopter just crashed into a highrise on 72nd street??

Yes klaas I just heard a friend called me.  They said it was a helicopter.  It was a 50 story building on 72nd Stree and York Ave.  It housed some patients from New York Presbyterian Hospital.

[klaasend]

Live video link of the NY plane crash and resulting fire.  People are trapped in the building.  They say now that it was a fixed wing aircraft.

http://tinyurl.com/g9ueq

DH called me to put it on....CBS is saying helicopter.  524 E 72nd

Eyewitnesses are saying a white 4 seater airplane.

[2NJSons_Mom]

CBS just changed to fixed wing...

[San]

This just said it was a Fixed Wing Aircraft and not a Helicopter.