Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru 11/16/08

[Magnolia]

Sorry....

I think that Mos didn't want the pond searched, but the Persistence
crew did the side scan without his  permission.
I honestly think that he did allow the pond to be drained. (or someone did) 
I remember a statement from Mos that they were delayed because of the strike.
I do not know who invited the Persistence crew, but Kyle just said that
they were invited.  It was about the time of the bunch of investigators
from NL being there.   Mabe the Dutch invited them?

[MumInOhio]

Was it Jossy who drained the pond?

Probably...now you take the Excedrin...LOL

Do we have dates for any of this..TIA

Lala's...dates on the pics...TIA

[EURobert]

...

I have an index of the Shango threads or most of it and if you post what you would like to check further on I can find the discussions for you. [/b] [/color]

That's great! I haven't had the time to look into the Shango threads yet.
But before I have concrete questions first SS's summary has to really sink in; the story that is presented there is quite specific (and quite gruesome) so I have to more or less match it with the story I have in my mind. Which is pretty much the one that came out of the Joran-Car-confessions, with some exceptions.

But an obvious question would of course be: how much of the Shango story is corroborated by facts?

[Edward]

none of it.

[Magnolia]

Magnolia...OT at the moment, but a while back, before I joined SM there were extensive discussions about the blood on the mattress.

It was determined with much research that ALE could not have distinguished between Human and dog blood without testing.

They could not have known when they found the mattress that it was dog's blood.

Do you recall any of these discussions?  TIA

What I recall is that they never tested the blood at all.  They just
saw the dead dog nearby and assumed.

[MumInOhio]

...

I have an index of the Shango threads or most of it and if you post what you would like to check further on I can find the discussions for you. [/b] [/color]

That's great! I haven't had the time to look into the Shango threads yet.
But before I have concrete questions first SS's summary has to really sink in; the story that is presented there is quite specific (and quite gruesome) so I have to more or less match it with the story I have in my mind. Which is pretty much the one that came out of the Joran-Car-confessions, with some exceptions.

But an obvious question would of course be: how much of the Shango story is corroborated by facts?

LOL...Depends whom  you ask...Let me know what you need and I will look for it!

Going to check tonight on the timeline on the pond...from Caps Avatar on...LOL

[Lala'sMom]

none of it.

Technically speaking...you are correct. 

[SS]

...

I have an index of the Shango threads or most of it and if you post what you would like to check further on I can find the discussions for you. [/b] [/color]

That's great! I haven't had the time to look into the Shango threads yet.
But before I have concrete questions first SS's summary has to really sink in; the story that is presented there is quite specific (and quite gruesome) so I have to more or less match it with the story I have in my mind. Which is pretty much the one that came out of the Joran-Car-confessions, with some exceptions.

But an obvious question would of course be: how much of the Shango story is corroborated by facts?

Shango and Simian are in cryptic format.  We know that many things in both are true.  We have no idea if either theory is the accurate course of events.  We don't know if it was disinformation to create a diversion or the truth.  Much of our information has also come from Caps.

[Lala'sMom]

Was it Jossy who drained the pond?

Probably...now you take the Excedrin...LOL

Do we have dates for any of this..TIA

Lala's...dates on the pics...TIA

Hang on.  I have to find them again. LOL

[SS]

Magnolia...OT at the moment, but a while back, before I joined SM there were extensive discussions about the blood on the mattress.

It was determined with much research that ALE could not have distinguished between Human and dog blood without testing.

They could not have known when they found the mattress that it was dog's blood.

Do you recall any of these discussions?  TIA

What I recall is that they never tested the blood at all.  They just
saw the dead dog nearby and assumed.

Isn't there a statement somewhere in S?S that we need to learn why he put the dead dogs there?  Were the dead dogs or dog put there as a distraction for why the blood was really on the mattress?

[MumInOhio]

Magnolia...OT at the moment, but a while back, before I joined SM there were extensive discussions about the blood on the mattress.

It was determined with much research that ALE could not have distinguished between Human and dog blood without testing.

They could not have known when they found the mattress that it was dog's blood.

Do you recall any of these discussions?  TIA

What I recall is that they never tested the blood at all.  They just
saw the dead dog nearby and assumed.

Thanks...I was hoping you would recall the research discussions.

[Lala'sMom]

Actually, I don't have dates for those pics.  I can only say that I know I received them not more than 3 days after Julia reported the pond as being dry.  Caps would have to answer that question.  I uploaded them to my computer but I have no idea how to find out what that date was...you know how dumb I am on that kind of thing. 

The pond would have been drained within a week of the strike ending.  I know Caps was waiting for it to be drained and then all of a sudden the pond is dry.  Maybe Caps can clear up that timeline for us.

[SS]

Lala's - did Jossy hire EcoTech?

[Magnolia]

Magnolia...OT at the moment, but a while back, before I joined SM there were extensive discussions about the blood on the mattress.

It was determined with much research that ALE could not have distinguished between Human and dog blood without testing.

They could not have known when they found the mattress that it was dog's blood.

Do you recall any of these discussions?  TIA

What I recall is that they never tested the blood at all.  They just
saw the dead dog nearby and assumed.

Isn't there a statement somewhere in S?S that we need to learn why he put the dead dogs there?  Were the dead dogs or dog put there as a distraction for why the blood was really on the mattress?

I think that was referring to the dead dogs in the Moko pond,
but your theory could be correct.

[vms]

FWIW

Aired June 5, 2005 - 18:00   ET
<snipped>

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): It certainly does look like a major break, Carol. These are the first two arrests that have been made in the case.

These two suspects were pulled in at around 7:00 a.m. local time in raids on two homes on the eastern edge of the island. Police are describing the two men as aged 28 and 30. Both of them, police say, were security guards at the hotel near the Holiday Inn -- that's the hotel where Natalee Holloway was staying.

The frustrating part, though, Carol, is that so far, still no sign of Natalee Holloway's whereabouts. In the raids on the two homes, three cars were seized, bags full of possessions were also seized from those homes. But in an afternoon press conference Aruba's general prosecutor has said that nothing belonging to Natalee, no item or clothing, no other possession of hers has been found in any of those the raids.

The good news is, though, that these two arrestees will still be detained for at least another 48 hours. They are undergoing interrogation as we speak to see what more information police and investigators can glean from them.

In the course of the afternoon as well, I'm not sure whether this was linked directly but Dutch marines were combing a wind-swept eastern beach in Aruba looking for signs of Natalee's whereabouts. They turned up a mattress stained with blood. There was speculation that this could be linked to the case for a short while, but FBI agents that carried out tests on that blood and ruled it out of the investigation. They say that blood was, in fact dog blood, not human blood at all.
http://www.studentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/05/sun.04.html




Monday, June 6, 2005
<snipped>

At a Sunday news conference, van Strantan said police and the FBI determined that bloodstains on a mattress found earlier Sunday were from a dog.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/05/missing.teen/index.html

[EURobert]

none of it.

Well, in general I tend to be critical too, but I'm not totally sceptical Even the police has stated that these guys have (drug-)raped girls before. And these days it's very easy to make a 'pornvid' on your cellphone. So some of the story could very well be true. But on the other hand it's well known that a chain of 'hear-say' often let's the facts grow bigger and bigger... So the question than of course is how far or deep did this go?

[SS]

Actually, I don't have dates for those pics.  I can only say that I know I received them not more than 3 days after Julia reported the pond as being dry.  Caps would have to answer that question.  I uploaded them to my computer but I have no idea how to find out what that date was...you know how dumb I am on that kind of thing. 

The pond would have been drained within a week of the strike ending.  I know Caps was waiting for it to be drained and then all of a sudden the pond is dry.  Maybe Caps can clear up that timeline for us.

Mum, I think maybe there was a period of time between when the pond was actually drained and when we saw the pictures.  Rob discovered all of them on a website, but once that was found the photographs there disappeared.

[Magnolia]

Actually, I don't have dates for those pics.  I can only say that I know I received them not more than 3 days after Julia reported the pond as being dry.  Caps would have to answer that question.  I uploaded them to my computer but I have no idea how to find out what that date was...you know how dumb I am on that kind of thing. 

The pond would have been drained within a week of the strike ending.  I know Caps was waiting for it to be drained and then all of a sudden the pond is dry.  Maybe Caps can clear up that timeline for us.

I think it was the middle of June.

[SS]

Magnolia...OT at the moment, but a while back, before I joined SM there were extensive discussions about the blood on the mattress.

It was determined with much research that ALE could not have distinguished between Human and dog blood without testing.

They could not have known when they found the mattress that it was dog's blood.

Do you recall any of these discussions?  TIA

What I recall is that they never tested the blood at all.  They just
saw the dead dog nearby and assumed.

Isn't there a statement somewhere in S?S that we need to learn why he put the dead dogs there?  Were the dead dogs or dog put there as a distraction for why the blood was really on the mattress?

I think that was referring to the dead dogs in the Moko pond,
but your theory could be correct.

I don't know if they actually found a dead dog at Moko.  I think the reference to the dead dogs might have been in connection to Lorenzo's dogs.  Supposedly, Lorenzo was also into shooting dogs.  One of Lorenzo's dead dogs could have been left near the mattress.

[Lala'sMom]

I suppose we should be in Shango talking about this, but don't tell Klaas and she will never know.


Shango says they never took Natalee to the beach.  That is beginning to look more plausible with each new clue.

Shango says that Joran was a scapegoat.  That may ultimately prove to be correct given Paulus' involvement.

Shango says there is some kind of underground maze type situation that we can't figure out. It appears that could be true, given the other people that have told us about the Matty apts and the Lion Den and the now knowing about Joran and his proclivities to engage innocent women into sex slavery.

So there is a little truth in each of the cryptic posters messages.  Just because it does not make sense to one of us does not mean another of us won't see it for what it is. 

I was watching a television show last night that made me think of dirty hand...there was this madam in it that held all the keys to all the doors at her brothel and she chose who to let in and who to exclude.  I thought...dirty hand...walks among them, but not to satiate desire.  I really need a vacation.