Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru 11/16/08

[Magnolia]

This had to be a really elaborate scam...if it was a scam.
It was Tim and Dave that contacted Silvitti.  Was the scam the
delay in getting the boat enroute?  Then they left LA right
in the middle of a hurricaine.
Caps didn't come here until late last year.  What was the need
to misdirect at that point?
My little mind can't come up with the logic of it all.

I don't know how accurate this is because I don't know who Pam is, lol.  But I remembered reading this last night too.

John Silvetti said his company became involved in the search after he was contacted by Louis Schaefer, chairman of Superior Offshore International. Schaefer had been approached by Texas Equusearch, a non-profit organization that has been searching for Holloway for more than two years.

Schaefer asked Silvetti if he could provide the survey personnel and the geophysical equipment required for the search. After spending a weekend with Schaefer and Pam and Dave Holloway, Silvetti agreed.

http://www.iberianet.com/articles/2007/11/29/news/news/news00.txt

TM - this is right.  I posted the longer version of this article last night.  It's a few pages back.

I get Schaefer and Silvetti confused.

[texasmom]

This had to be a really elaborate scam...if it was a scam.
It was Tim and Dave that contacted Silvitti.  Was the scam the
delay in getting the boat enroute?  Then they left LA right
in the middle of a hurricaine.
Caps didn't come here until late last year.  What was the need
to misdirect at that point?
My little mind can't come up with the logic of it all.

I don't know how accurate this is because I don't know who Pam is, lol.  But I remembered reading this last night too.

John Silvetti said his company became involved in the search after he was contacted by Louis Schaefer, chairman of Superior Offshore International. Schaefer had been approached by Texas Equusearch, a non-profit organization that has been searching for Holloway for more than two years.

Schaefer asked Silvetti if he could provide the survey personnel and the geophysical equipment required for the search. After spending a weekend with Schaefer and Pam and Dave Holloway, Silvetti agreed.

http://www.iberianet.com/articles/2007/11/29/news/news/news00.txt

TM - this is right.  I posted the longer version of this article last night.  It's a few pages back.

Sometimes reporters don't get things right, that's what I meant.

[SS]

I've had some time to settle my brains, and a number of things are coming up for me.  Last night, someone mentioned oil exploration.  I think this is one purpose  of Silvetti's business.  This could be a wild thought, but is it possible that an agreement was made with Arube to scan and grid for future offshore drilling sites while searching for Natalee at the same time?  It's interesting that Persstence did stay and complete the grids even after ALE took the trap contents.  Persistence was there for at least another month after ALE divers took the evidence.  Did some people make some money off of this oil exploration deal?  Aruba has a surface grid of the ocean off their coast, TES found the evidence they wanted, and Silvetti (et. al.) could have made a lot of money creating the grid map of the ocean floor.  Just a thought.

[Altruist]

I've had some time to settle my brains, and a number of things are coming up for me.  Last night, someone mentioned oil exploration.  I think this is one purpose  of Silvetti's business.  This could be a wild thought, but is it possible that an agreement was made with Arube to scan and grid for future offshore drilling sites while searching for Natalee at the same time?  It's interesting that Persstence did stay and complete the grids even after ALE took the trap contents.  Persistence was there for at least another month after ALE divers took the evidence.  Did some people make some money off of this oil exploration deal?  Aruba has a surface grid of the ocean off their coast, TES found the evidence they wanted, and Silvetti (et. al.) could have made a lot of money creating the grid map of the ocean floor.  Just a thought.

Makes sense to me & even if it hadn't taken place before it certainly could have been marketed after & not just to Aruba, if you know what I mean.

[2NJSons_Mom]

This project is currently temporarily suspended due to funding constraints and other factors.

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

[Magnolia]

I've had some time to settle my brains, and a number of things are coming up for me.  Last night, someone mentioned oil exploration.  I think this is one purpose  of Silvetti's business.  This could be a wild thought, but is it possible that an agreement was made with Arube to scan and grid for future offshore drilling sites while searching for Natalee at the same time?  It's interesting that Persstence did stay and complete the grids even after ALE took the trap contents.  Persistence was there for at least another month after ALE divers took the evidence.  Did some people make some money off of this oil exploration deal?  Aruba has a surface grid of the ocean off their coast, TES found the evidence they wanted, and Silvetti (et. al.) could have made a lot of money creating the grid map of the ocean floor.  Just a thought.

I totally agree, but if ALE got the evidence...did it go in the bottomless evidence
drawer?

[SS]

Kermit told us to follow the money.  Well black gold is where it's at right now and oil exploration is big.  That area of the Carribbean has tremendous oil reserves and it sure would be nice to have an oil rich ally so close to home. Things are touchy with Chavez in Venezuela, but Aruba is a friend.  Aruba could become a very wealthy island if more oil reserves are developed and US/Aruban investors can make a fortune from off shore drilling.  Is this another reason why our government has been so easy on Aruba?  Is this the attraction/friendship between Jossy and Silvetti?  Perhaps the Mansurs intend to extend their fortune into energy development.  Were a few Americans offered a piece of the action if they kept their mouths shut?  Kermit says Tim is innocent and I believe it.

[texasmom]

I've had some time to settle my brains, and a number of things are coming up for me.  Last night, someone mentioned oil exploration.  I think this is one purpose  of Silvetti's business.  This could be a wild thought, but is it possible that an agreement was made with Arube to scan and grid for future offshore drilling sites while searching for Natalee at the same time?  It's interesting that Persstence did stay and complete the grids even after ALE took the trap contents.  Persistence was there for at least another month after ALE divers took the evidence.  Did some people make some money off of this oil exploration deal?  Aruba has a surface grid of the ocean off their coast, TES found the evidence they wanted, and Silvetti (et. al.) could have made a lot of money creating the grid map of the ocean floor.  Just a thought.

I totally agree, but if ALE got the evidence...did it go in the bottomless evidence
drawer?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358544#msg358544

Post from Private Eye:  March 1, 2008

Quote from: private eye on March 01, 2008, 02:07:48 PM
Either something grand has happened or something mighty dirty just happened. You don't spend that much money to identify targets that you are not going to search. Why get Beth and Dave's hopes up, find probable targets allegedly, and then go, with very little warning, oops, we cannot afford to search afterall? Why does Chaney fly in at midnight the day before the Persistence pulls out? Coincidental? Silveti and Chaney are both active in the Houston area. Bush and Silveti the same plus the same business interests. Why Ocean EX would interject himself in the cage as he did last night? Why is Joran suddenly in a mental hospital?

And now that they have identified the locations of the targets, with the Aruban police force on board, they are retiring from the search, with guess who now in the know. And what is funny, is it was Oceans Ex fear that we might give some secrets away. Hell, the coverup people already have the secrets, first hand from the horse themselves.

Something grand had to have happened. If not, then this was the cruelest hoax of yet. And I just don't believe these people are anything but nice, so something grand had to have happened.

[always 1]

Always1...Is this thepost you were referring to by Kermit? TIA

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #326 on: November 15, 2008, 06:52:38 PM »

Don't go away upset.
It's easy as one, two three.

write down the initials mum that you were given in the shango thread
think of who is telling what

then you will know who is who.

Yes.

[texasmom]

Post from Red March 1, 2008

Quote from: Red on March 01, 2008, 01:12:11 PM
I am a confused Monkey ...

Umm ... You know this really does not make any sense at all. I say this with the caveat that no one was more excited to hear that the deep water search was finally going to happen. I had heard rumblings of it long before it was ever announced and then it got delayed again until the RV Persistence arrived in Aruba. From all accounts the search lasted longer than what was most likely ever anticipated. It seems like they have been there forever doing yeoman's work searching for Natalee. That is to be commended and a huge thanks.

Now comes my questions. It was about a week ago that donations were first asked for. At no point prior to the Persistence leaving Louisiana during its voyage to Aruba or during the search were donations requested. Not even during the Date Line show was there one reference to donations or a ticker running at the bottom asking for donations, which I personally think was a mistake.

I guess my question is ... it would seem that the deep water search was never intended to be funded by donations. It was with up front money. I know this may be the business consultant in me but if that were the case, none of this makes any sense. With up front money one does not plan a search with available funds only to get 50%, 60% or 70% thru the task at hand.

Sure things happen and unforeseen variables occur. However, there are always contingency plans put in place. No one just looks up one day and sees $0.00 in their bank account, asks for donations and then 1 week later ceases actions.

I am a bit puzzled by all this. No one can count on donations to fund a search that is already going on like this. The deep water search in Aruba is not a normal missing persons search, to say the least. They just asked for donations and in some cases checks are still in the mail and have not been received, yet the search is over. So why did anyone ask for donations if they never gave the donations a chance?  And the search seemed to be targeted to be over on Friday.

I guess my question is why was the search not planned knowing that there was a finite amount of money and days available? That would mean that you cant just map everything and not further investigate the hits.

Imagine building a home knowing that you have $200K to spend. Between foundation, framing, electric and plumbing you are at $195K into your budget. Ut-oh. Who would do that? Why would the most important part of investigating hits not be accounted for in the search plan, knowing there was a limit to time and $'s?

I am just a bit puzzled. Actually I am really puzzled. 

I really thank them for their efforts, but I am puzzled.

[Pita]

Jossy had a search performed in early October 2007, prior to the arrival of the Persistence.  Jossy's comments in italics below.

Previously posted at SM:

http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/2007/09/if-they-wont-do-it-then-we-will.html

Sunday, September 30, 2007
“If They Won’t Do It, Then We Will!”

DIARIO has made the decision to perform a water search for Natalee Holloway at their expense. At this time necessary equipment is still being gathered, but the search should commence within the next several days. I’ve been promised a day by day report detailing each event surrounding this latest endeavor.

Way to go Jossy! It has become abundantly clear no one else is willing to make this effort. We applaud your persistence!

Update: We have a pretty good recent lead to go on. Our searches start by mid week, around Wednesday or Thursday. There is a lot of preparatory work to be done before we send the boat out with the necessary divers and equipment. We as Arubans do not need any kind of permit for the activity we are to embark on. That makes it easier.

I will let you know as soon as we are ready to embark on the first search to a spot we have mapped on the ocean.

Update II: So far...

... a lot of disappointments. It seems that the reading taken over a year ago of a specific target are no longer valid. It was explained to me that the pinpointed target has moved due to underwater currents, sand shifts, recent and past bad oceanic conditions created by the passing hurricanes to the north of the island, close to where the target was located, etc.) and has not been relocated yet in its new (and disintegrated) presence. However, I have asked them to try to pinpoint at least a part (the largest possible) of the target and to go for it, but they said it would take time and it makes the search more indefinite as far as location is concerned. The search, therefore, will take time before it can proceed. I will keep you posted on everything, good and bad, related to the search, and when it can be finally done with whatever percentages of success may exist.

This seems to have been the characteristics of this case: one disappointment after another! How can so many factors combine to make a simple case so difficult to solve? Beats me!

[texasmom]

The posts from PI and Red followed this post brought over from BFN. 

Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 12:34:27 PM

Just Posted by LegallyLex at BFN:
    Re: The Search for Natalee Holloway Blogspot
« Reply #859 on: Today at 12:30:54 PM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is with sadness that I am reporting to everyone that the Persistence leaves Aruba tomorrow heading for home.  As you are aware, the side scan sonar search is complete.  There are many many targets for the ROV to look at.  Sadly, this will not happen with the Persistence.  The main reason is the lack of funding.  This combined with the winter rough weather makes it difficult.  John and the crew thank all of your for your help and many blessings and prayers you have provided.  Please continue these prayers until the Persistence makes it back to port in New Iberia.

Thanks everyone! You are the best!

[johan555]

 feddy's last name

is it  Freddy Alexander Zedan?  or  Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis Arends ?

and who is Freddy – Frederick Arends or Martina , guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges ?

[Pita]

Post from Red March 1, 2008

Quote from: Red on March 01, 2008, 01:12:11 PM
I am a confused Monkey ...

Umm ... You know this really does not make any sense at all. I say this with the caveat that no one was more excited to hear that the deep water search was finally going to happen. I had heard rumblings of it long before it was ever announced and then it got delayed again until the RV Persistence arrived in Aruba. From all accounts the search lasted longer than what was most likely ever anticipated. It seems like they have been there forever doing yeoman's work searching for Natalee. That is to be commended and a huge thanks.

Now comes my questions. It was about a week ago that donations were first asked for. At no point prior to the Persistence leaving Louisiana during its voyage to Aruba or during the search were donations requested. Not even during the Date Line show was there one reference to donations or a ticker running at the bottom asking for donations, which I personally think was a mistake.

I guess my question is ... it would seem that the deep water search was never intended to be funded by donations. It was with up front money. I know this may be the business consultant in me but if that were the case, none of this makes any sense. With up front money one does not plan a search with available funds only to get 50%, 60% or 70% thru the task at hand.

Sure things happen and unforeseen variables occur. However, there are always contingency plans put in place. No one just looks up one day and sees $0.00 in their bank account, asks for donations and then 1 week later ceases actions.

I am a bit puzzled by all this. No one can count on donations to fund a search that is already going on like this. The deep water search in Aruba is not a normal missing persons search, to say the least. They just asked for donations and in some cases checks are still in the mail and have not been received, yet the search is over. So why did anyone ask for donations if they never gave the donations a chance?  And the search seemed to be targeted to be over on Friday.

I guess my question is why was the search not planned knowing that there was a finite amount of money and days available? That would mean that you cant just map everything and not further investigate the hits.

Imagine building a home knowing that you have $200K to spend. Between foundation, framing, electric and plumbing you are at $195K into your budget. Ut-oh. Who would do that? Why would the most important part of investigating hits not be accounted for in the search plan, knowing there was a limit to time and $'s?

I am just a bit puzzled. Actually I am really puzzled. 

I really thank them for their efforts, but I am puzzled.

After reading this, I'm thinking they found what they were looking for in the cage, but for unknown reasons could not disclose the information.  I'm wondering if the lack of funding and subsequent donation request was an excuse for leaving?

[SS]

I have to think that the primary purpose of the Persistence gridding task was for oil exploration.  Whether he realized it or not, Tim was most likely along for the ride.  This was great advertising for Silvetti's business.  I wonder how many oil drilling companies contacted him after they saw what his crew can do with side-scan radar.  Silvetti didn't donate his equipment in an effort to find Natalee.  He let TES come along for the ride so that they could have a look at the ocean floor - and onlt if they kept their mouths shut and didn't cause trouble.  Why was Silvetti at the Mansur wedding in March?  Because he's Jossy's new business partner.  The search was not about Natalee.  It was about making money from oil.  Tim and Kyle were duped.  I was upset when Tim abruptly left.  Many of us were making donations up until that week based on please from the TES website.  I felt betrayed at the time, but I now understand what happened.  Silvetti was in charge of the trip and Tim was along for the ride.  Tim did the best that he could do in that situation.  He wasn't in a position of strength. 

Now, let's try to figure out who the three traitors are.  Who made money from the Persistence voyage?  Who is playing games with us?

[texasmom]

Post from Red March 1, 2008

Quote from: Red on March 01, 2008, 01:12:11 PM
I am a confused Monkey ...

Umm ... You know this really does not make any sense at all. I say this with the caveat that no one was more excited to hear that the deep water search was finally going to happen. I had heard rumblings of it long before it was ever announced and then it got delayed again until the RV Persistence arrived in Aruba. From all accounts the search lasted longer than what was most likely ever anticipated. It seems like they have been there forever doing yeoman's work searching for Natalee. That is to be commended and a huge thanks.

Now comes my questions. It was about a week ago that donations were first asked for. At no point prior to the Persistence leaving Louisiana during its voyage to Aruba or during the search were donations requested. Not even during the Date Line show was there one reference to donations or a ticker running at the bottom asking for donations, which I personally think was a mistake.

I guess my question is ... it would seem that the deep water search was never intended to be funded by donations. It was with up front money. I know this may be the business consultant in me but if that were the case, none of this makes any sense. With up front money one does not plan a search with available funds only to get 50%, 60% or 70% thru the task at hand.

Sure things happen and unforeseen variables occur. However, there are always contingency plans put in place. No one just looks up one day and sees $0.00 in their bank account, asks for donations and then 1 week later ceases actions.

I am a bit puzzled by all this. No one can count on donations to fund a search that is already going on like this. The deep water search in Aruba is not a normal missing persons search, to say the least. They just asked for donations and in some cases checks are still in the mail and have not been received, yet the search is over. So why did anyone ask for donations if they never gave the donations a chance?  And the search seemed to be targeted to be over on Friday.

I guess my question is why was the search not planned knowing that there was a finite amount of money and days available? That would mean that you cant just map everything and not further investigate the hits.

Imagine building a home knowing that you have $200K to spend. Between foundation, framing, electric and plumbing you are at $195K into your budget. Ut-oh. Who would do that? Why would the most important part of investigating hits not be accounted for in the search plan, knowing there was a limit to time and $'s?

I am just a bit puzzled. Actually I am really puzzled. 

I really thank them for their efforts, but I am puzzled.

After reading this, I'm thinking they found what they were looking for in the cage, but for unknown reasons could not disclose the information.  I'm wondering if the lack of funding and subsequent donation request was an excuse for leaving?

I think so too Pita.  They requested donations, but then didn't even give checks time to clear the bank before they left (mine being one of them).

[SS]

Quote from: private eye on March 01, 2008, 02:07:48 PM
Either something grand has happened or something mighty dirty just happened. You don't spend that much money to identify targets that you are not going to search. Why get Beth and Dave's hopes up, find probable targets allegedly, and then go, with very little warning, oops, we cannot afford to search afterall? Why does Chaney fly in at midnight the day before the Persistence pulls out? Coincidental? Silveti and Chaney are both active in the Houston area. Bush and Silveti the same plus the same business interests. Why Ocean EX would interject himself in the cage as he did last night? Why is Joran suddenly in a mental hospital?

And now that they have identified the locations of the targets, with the Aruban police force on board, they are retiring from the search, with guess who now in the know. And what is funny, is it was Oceans Ex fear that we might give some secrets away. Hell, the cover up people already have the secrets, first hand from the horse themselves.

Something grand had to have happened. If not, then this was the cruelest hoax of yet. And I just don't believe these people are anything but nice, so something grand had to have happened.
***************************************


Something grand probably did happen.  The surface scans of the ocean floor and and the geological survey samples have probably identified an ocean shelf that is very abundant in petroleum reserves.  Maybe it's just like Houston!!!

[texasmom]

I have to think that the primary purpose of the Persistence gridding task was for oil exploration.  Whether he realized it or not, Tim was most likely along for the ride.  This was great advertising for Silvetti's business.  I wonder how many oil drilling companies contacted him after they saw what his crew can do with side-scan radar.  Silvetti didn't donate his equipment in an effort to find Natalee.  He let TES come along for the ride so that they could have a look at the ocean floor - and onlt if they kept their mouths shut and didn't cause trouble.  Why was Silvetti at the Mansur wedding in March?  Because he's Jossy's new business partner.  The search was not about Natalee.  It was about making money from oil.  Tim and Kyle were duped.  I was upset when Tim abruptly left.  Many of us were making donations up until that week based on please from the TES website.  I felt betrayed at the time, but I now understand what happened.  Silvetti was in charge of the trip and Tim was along for the ride.  Tim did the best that he could do in that situation.  He wasn't in a position of strength. 

Now, let's try to figure out who the three traitors are.  Who made money from the Persistence voyage?  Who is playing games with us?

I think from what I've read that Silvetti donated his TIME, the equipment was provided "below cost", I will try to find that again.

[MumInOhio]

I have to think that the primary purpose of the Persistence gridding task was for oil exploration.  Whether he realized it or not, Tim was most likely along for the ride.  This was great advertising for Silvetti's business.  I wonder how many oil drilling companies contacted him after they saw what his crew can do with side-scan radar.  Silvetti didn't donate his equipment in an effort to find Natalee.  He let TES come along for the ride so that they could have a look at the ocean floor - and onlt if they kept their mouths shut and didn't cause trouble.  Why was Silvetti at the Mansur wedding in March?  Because he's Jossy's new business partner.  The search was not about Natalee.  It was about making money from oil.  Tim and Kyle were duped.  I was upset when Tim abruptly left.  Many of us were making donations up until that week based on please from the TES website.  I felt betrayed at the time, but I now understand what happened.  Silvetti was in charge of the trip and Tim was along for the ride.  Tim did the best that he could do in that situation.  He wasn't in a position of strength. 

Now, let's try to figure out who the three traitors are.  Who made money from the Persistence voyage?  Who is playing games with us?

Wish I knew????

 

[SS]

Monkeys - I hate to say it, but we can continue to Boycott Aruba until the cows come home.  If Jossy, Silvetti, and their friends strike oil, crappy island will be a gold mine in spite of our efforts.  I think we will see people investing in Aruba instead of boycotting Aruba.  No wonder the Arubans are so smug.