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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru 11/19/08  (Read 259683 times)
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #320 on: November 17, 2008, 09:15:14 PM »

I came in late and read Mr. Frogs post after the fact.

Mum, SS or Lala will remember this.
Caps made a post that said something like....Me..J..W...& C.
Not sure about the "W".

I think that Mr. Frog is trying to tell us that Caps is Silvetti's nephew.

I posted the quote from Caps and Lala's and I agreed on who we thought he was referring to.  

we thought the W was for witness

I don't think that Caps is related to John, I will definitely be if that were so.

I am sorry, TM.  I knew it was one of you real smart monkeys.

Do you know what 'John" Caps is referring to?



Yes, he was referring to John Silvetti.  In context it was about a telephone call connected to draining the Manserat Pond.  Jossy and John are friends.  John went to Aruba in March to attend a Mansur wedding.

Has anyone thought about the possibility that the Mansurs own the mineral rights on the ocean floor?  They own 80% of the island.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if they own the mineral rights under the ocean shelf.  Translated that means whoever owns the mineral rights makes money off of every barrel of oil that is brought to the surface and John Silvetti had just finished the geological survey to determine where to place the off shore wells.

I just don't seem right that the Mansur family owns the rights to the minerals on the ocean floor.  I seem to think that the Aruban government has ownership.  I remember reading that there are places with ownership to private beaches on Aruba, but that the government was making more beach available to the public.

I also remember that the 80% might be an old number (with many variations), and split among many extended family members.  Also, I recall it suggested that Jossy was a Mansur, but did not follow the same path as others (the "black sheep" of the family is what I read).

From all the junk that was reported being on the oceanbed, I think it is more likely someone should spend money to clean all that stuff up.

Who would the Mansur family have purchased the mineral rights from?  The Queen?  The Dutch?  Wouldn't there be a record of this somewhere?  Newspaper clipping?
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« Reply #321 on: November 17, 2008, 09:21:12 PM »

Remember, one ot two of Jossy's sons were the divers.  Is that why Kermit kept asking about who the ALE divers were?
SS your a very smart monkey do we know all the people on that boat.
Lets make a list with pictures.
I'll help you with this tomorrow we can start a new thread and put all of it together.

I have almost all of Oceanexploration posts from SM  and lots of pictures.
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« Reply #322 on: November 17, 2008, 09:22:13 PM »

I came in late and read Mr. Frogs post after the fact.

Mum, SS or Lala will remember this.
Caps made a post that said something like....Me..J..W...& C.
Not sure about the "W".

I think that Mr. Frog is trying to tell us that Caps is Silvetti's nephew.

I posted the quote from Caps and Lala's and I agreed on who we thought he was referring to.  

we thought the W was for witness

I don't think that Caps is related to John, I will definitely be if that were so.

I am sorry, TM.  I knew it was one of you real smart monkeys.

Do you know what 'John" Caps is referring to?



Yes, he was referring to John Silvetti.  In context it was about a telephone call connected to draining the Manserat Pond.  Jossy and John are friends.  John went to Aruba in March to attend a Mansur wedding.

Has anyone thought about the possibility that the Mansurs own the mineral rights on the ocean floor?  They own 80% of the island.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if they own the mineral rights under the ocean shelf.  Translated that means whoever owns the mineral rights makes money off of every barrel of oil that is brought to the surface and John Silvetti had just finished the geological survey to determine where to place the off shore wells.

Thank you SS.  I had thought of the oil, but not needing the mineral rights.
Jossy would be smart enough to aquire the rights long ago, I am sure.
I don't like to think ill of Jossy....I like him...but do you think they used the
guise of searching for Natalee to survey the ocean.  The Mansurs would
have the money to bring the oil to surface.

If they found her, I don't think that Jossy would hide the fact from her
family. but maybe I am being too trusting.




Oil in that area of the Carribbean is touchy because of Chavez.  He owns everything.  The US needs allys with oil.  Is that why they have been easy on Aruba?  They didn't want the world to know that they planning off shore exploration and drilling.  Another factor was probably money.  Geological exploration is expensive.  Silvetti's company was just about bankrupt.  Wouldn't it be nice to have all of those mapping expenses written off because it was done for the purpose of searching for the body of a missing American woman.  Their survey was done for a nonprofit organization.  How magnanimous.  Crappy Island will be a boom town if they drill for oil and find it and the Mansurs will greatly increase their fortune.
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Magnolia
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« Reply #323 on: November 17, 2008, 09:25:44 PM »

Remember, one ot two of Jossy's sons were the divers.  Is that why Kermit kept asking about who the ALE divers were?

So did they inadvertently discover a drug drop or Jalitza Wever or
Natalee?
The C is Caps message was Cops, right?
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Blue Moon
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« Reply #324 on: November 17, 2008, 09:26:14 PM »

Here is a quote from Caps concerning the finding of the cage:

Quote from: CapsLockWizard on March 01, 2008, 10:53:14 PM
Remember My post before:

The cage was there already, Post office has been exposed.

Remember Dirty Cowboys.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Blue Moon says:)

Are you saying this is is drop-off point for drugs?  If a drop-off point then that cage was used to put Natalee in it?  Thanks.

Here is where it is located:
 429   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #738 3/1 -       on: March 01, 2008, 10:56:32 PM
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
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« Reply #325 on: November 17, 2008, 09:28:19 PM »

I came in late and read Mr. Frogs post after the fact.

Mum, SS or Lala will remember this.
Caps made a post that said something like....Me..J..W...& C.
Not sure about the "W".

I think that Mr. Frog is trying to tell us that Caps is Silvetti's nephew.

I posted the quote from Caps and Lala's and I agreed on who we thought he was referring to.  

we thought the W was for witness

I don't think that Caps is related to John, I will definitely be if that were so.

He looks like Jossy! What do you think?

I don't think hat Caps is related to John

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« Reply #326 on: November 17, 2008, 09:30:46 PM »

Anybody think of asking Tim Miller about what he saw, when he was/wasn't present, etc..? That would probably clear things up once and for all.

Kermit says "I know." Trust me. The ocean. That would corroborate a dumping of the body at sea, confession tape from Holland, etc...

CAPS says "I know." Trust me. The pond. That would corroborate the witness at the pond, the jeep driving slowly in the area to pick a muddy someone up at 4am, etc...

Are they both right? Are neither right? Is only one right? Which one?

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Blue Moon
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« Reply #327 on: November 17, 2008, 09:31:46 PM »

Here's another one  (***just let me know if you all want any more of this):

438       Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08       on: February 29, 2008, 06:47:27 PM
Quote from: AZLady on February 29, 2008, 06:41:08 PM
Ocean, was there something other than cloth in the trap?  Was the FBI asked to process something other than cloth?  If so, are the results known and can they be shared?

There was something there. Tim Miller said the dna did not match Natalee's DNA.
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
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« Reply #328 on: November 17, 2008, 09:32:10 PM »

I came in late and read Mr. Frogs post after the fact.

Mum, SS or Lala will remember this.
Caps made a post that said something like....Me..J..W...& C.
Not sure about the "W".

I think that Mr. Frog is trying to tell us that Caps is Silvetti's nephew.

Me, J...W...&C
Lala's answered this one....Caps was referring to John or Jossy, the Witness and Cops. 

I found a post in Shango where CAPS says he has an uncle who is a lawyer :

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Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2019 on: February 16, 2008, 11:12:09 AM »
Yes the government has his own set of lawyers and only work for the Government.

The Lawyers also represents a group that work hand in hand with the OM.


I was wondering which lawyer was on the Roll that night to handel the cases.

On the Roll means (schedule) How I know this is that my uncle is a Lawyer and He always talk abaout to have Roll duty.

It means that he is on the evening list to handel cases comming in that night. it can also be a sub prosecuter.


When Kermit says "Caps has an Uncle" could this be what he is talking about?

 

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« Reply #329 on: November 17, 2008, 09:32:15 PM »

Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #330 on: November 17, 2008, 09:34:28 PM »

From the wiki -

Quote
US President Bill Clinton in 1996 publicly identified Aruba "as a major drug-transit country" and noted that "a substantial portion of the free-zone's businesses in Aruba are owned and operated by members of the Mansur family, who have been indicted in the United States on charges of conspiracy to launder trafficking proceeds."[4] In the late 1980s, an investigator for Senator John Kerry's committee investigating the Iran-Contra Affair, interviewing drug traffickers in a West Miami prison kept hearing about the Mansurs. "Who are the Mansurs?" he would ask. Answer: "The big family in Aruba we used for laundering money and moving cocaine."[5]

Philip Morris International broke its contract with the Mansurs at the end of 1998 "for business reasons." A source close to the family said the two sides agreed to a $22 million settlement and that the Mansurs continue to work with Philip Morris' non-tobacco product lines.[6]

Quote
Mansur is known for his weekly editorials which are often critical of the local government of Prime Minister Nelson Oduber. The ongoing disagreement between Mansur and Oduber dates back many years. During the election campaign in 2001, Oduber's party even had stickers made stating "Don’t believe Diario."[17]

Quote
Mansur has strongly advocated a point of view in the cases of Eduardo Mathew and Natalee Holloway. He appeared regularly on Fox News and Nancy Grace's CNN Headline News show commenting on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba in 2005. Mansur formed his own "investigative team" and his newspaper repeatedly published new leads. According to some observers, Mansur latched onto the bandwagon as part of his own feud with the Aruban government.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jossy_Mansur

Is Jossy responsible for the acts of his family members?  I wonder if Jossy was ever charged or convicted?  Perhaps guilty by family association?

I don't know why some would lump Jossy with every possible Mansur family member. 

Was there a thread somewhere about Silvetti's company "was just about bankrupt"?  I don't recall anything like that.

Does anyone have contacts on Aruba that can verify that the Mansur family (any member) owns mineral rights to the seabed around Aruba?

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« Reply #331 on: November 17, 2008, 09:35:23 PM »

What did I miss, what kind of minerals???
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« Reply #332 on: November 17, 2008, 09:38:22 PM »

Okay, Blonde, thanks for the posting of the picture, I know I ran off.  I went searching info on John Silvetti.  Kermit said follow the money.  Well, I couldn't find much on Silvetti but I found some interesting stuff on Schauffer. 

Superior Offshore International was who TES asked to help and SOI got Silvetti involved.  SOI filed bankruptcy Chapt 11 and there is also a class action lawsuit against them for Securities Fraud.  There are links I will try to bring over **Remember I am Computer Illiterate"  but just google Superior Offshore International and there is a lot of stuff.  This one I brought over is VERY INTERESTING>>>  Seems they may be saved.....



About Thomson ReutersSuperior Offshore International Announces Successful Launch of Superior Achiever
Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:00am EST  Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page | Recommend (0) [-] Text
  • Closing of Sale/Charter-Back of Vessel Expected to Occur on January 22, 2008

HOUSTON, Jan. 21 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Superior Offshore
International, Inc. (Nasdaq: DEEP) today announced that the Superior Achiever,
a DP-III deepwater construction and dive support vessel that is under
construction and is expected to be delivered in late 2008, was successfully
launched in the Netherlands on January 19, 2008. The launch of the Superior
Achiever paves the way for the completion of the previously announced sale and
charter-back of the vessel between Superior Offshore and Hornbeck Offshore
Services LLC, a wholly owned subsidiary of Hornbeck Offshore Services, Inc.
(NYSE: HOS). Superior Offshore and Hornbeck have delivered funds and documents
into escrow to be released on Tuesday, January 22, 2008, due to today's U.S.
bank holiday.
    About Superior Offshore International, Inc.
    Superior Offshore is a leading provider of subsea construction and
commercial diving services to the offshore oil and gas industry, serving
operators internationally and domestically in the outer continental shelf of
the U.S. Gulf of Mexico. Construction services include installation, upgrading
and decommissioning of pipelines and production infrastructure. Commercial
diving services include inspection, maintenance and repair services and
support services for subsea construction and salvage operations. The company
also operates a construction/fabrication division. Superior Offshore operates
a fleet of nine service vessels and provides remotely operated vehicles (ROVs)
and saturation diving systems for deepwater and harsh environment operations.
    Forward-Looking Statements
    Certain statements contained in this news release are forward-looking
statements. All statements other than statements of historical fact are, or
may be deemed to be, forward-looking statements, including statements
regarding the expected closing of the sale/charter-back transaction and the
expected delivery and deployment of the Superior Achiever. Forward-looking
statements by their nature involve substantial risks and uncertainties that
could significantly affect expected results, and actual future results could
differ materially from those described in such statements. Although it is not
possible to identify all factors, Superior Offshore continues to face many
risks and uncertainties. Some of the factors that could cause actual future
results to differ materially are described under the caption "Risk Factors" in
Superior Offshore's Prospectus, dated April 19, 2007 and filed with the
Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC") on April 20, 2007, and Superior
Offshore's other filings with the SEC, which may be obtained by visiting the
Investor Relations section of Superior Offshore's website under "Financial
Information" at http://www.superioroffshore.com or from the SEC's website at
http://www.sec.gov.
     Contacts:
     Superior Offshore International
     Roger Burks, CFO
     roger.burks@superioroffshore.com
     713-910-1875

     DRG&E
     Ken Dennard / ksdennard@drg-e.com
     Anne Pearson / apearson@drg-e.com
     713-529-6600

SOURCE  Superior Offshore International, Inc.

Roger Burks, CFO of Superior Offshore International, +1-713-910-1875,
roger.burks@superioroffshore.com; or Ken Dennard, ksdennard@drg-e.com, or Anne
Pearson, apearson@drg-e.com, both of DRG&E, +1-713-529-6600, for Superior
Offshore International

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« Reply #333 on: November 17, 2008, 09:38:55 PM »

From the wiki -

Quote
US President Bill Clinton in 1996 publicly identified Aruba "as a major drug-transit country" and noted that "a substantial portion of the free-zone's businesses in Aruba are owned and operated by members of the Mansur family, who have been indicted in the United States on charges of conspiracy to launder trafficking proceeds."[4] In the late 1980s, an investigator for Senator John Kerry's committee investigating the Iran-Contra Affair, interviewing drug traffickers in a West Miami prison kept hearing about the Mansurs. "Who are the Mansurs?" he would ask. Answer: "The big family in Aruba we used for laundering money and moving cocaine."[5]

Philip Morris International broke its contract with the Mansurs at the end of 1998 "for business reasons." A source close to the family said the two sides agreed to a $22 million settlement and that the Mansurs continue to work with Philip Morris' non-tobacco product lines.[6]

Quote
Mansur is known for his weekly editorials which are often critical of the local government of Prime Minister Nelson Oduber. The ongoing disagreement between Mansur and Oduber dates back many years. During the election campaign in 2001, Oduber's party even had stickers made stating "Don’t believe Diario."[17]

Quote
Mansur has strongly advocated a point of view in the cases of Eduardo Mathew and Natalee Holloway. He appeared regularly on Fox News and Nancy Grace's CNN Headline News show commenting on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba in 2005. Mansur formed his own "investigative team" and his newspaper repeatedly published new leads. According to some observers, Mansur latched onto the bandwagon as part of his own feud with the Aruban government.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jossy_Mansur

Is Jossy responsible for the acts of his family members?  I wonder if Jossy was ever charged or convicted?  Perhaps guilty by family association?

I don't know why some would lump Jossy with every possible Mansur family member. 

Was there a thread somewhere about Silvetti's company "was just about bankrupt"?  I don't recall anything like that.

Does anyone have contacts on Aruba that can verify that the Mansur family (any member) owns mineral rights to the seabed around Aruba?


Destiny probably could.
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Magnolia
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« Reply #334 on: November 17, 2008, 09:40:12 PM »

Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

Well, I think it is right flattering that they thought they had to mislead
the Monkeys.
So where's Natalee?
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SS
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« Reply #335 on: November 17, 2008, 09:40:23 PM »

I came in late and read Mr. Frogs post after the fact.

Mum, SS or Lala will remember this.
Caps made a post that said something like....Me..J..W...& C.
Not sure about the "W".

I think that Mr. Frog is trying to tell us that Caps is Silvetti's nephew.

I posted the quote from Caps and Lala's and I agreed on who we thought he was referring to.  

we thought the W was for witness

I don't think that Caps is related to John, I will definitely be if that were so.

I am sorry, TM.  I knew it was one of you real smart monkeys.

Do you know what 'John" Caps is referring to?



Yes, he was referring to John Silvetti.  In context it was about a telephone call connected to draining the Manserat Pond.  Jossy and John are friends.  John went to Aruba in March to attend a Mansur wedding.

Has anyone thought about the possibility that the Mansurs own the mineral rights on the ocean floor?  They own 80% of the island.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if they own the mineral rights under the ocean shelf.  Translated that means whoever owns the mineral rights makes money off of every barrel of oil that is brought to the surface and John Silvetti had just finished the geological survey to determine where to place the off shore wells.

I just don't seem right that the Mansur family owns the rights to the minerals on the ocean floor.  I seem to think that the Aruban government has ownership.  I remember reading that there are places with ownership to private beaches on Aruba, but that the government was making more beach available to the public.

I also remember that the 80% might be an old number (with many variations), and split among many extended family members.  Also, I recall it suggested that Jossy was a Mansur, but did not follow the same path as others (the "black sheep" of the family is what I read).

From all the junk that was reported being on the oceanbed, I think it is more likely someone should spend money to clean all that stuff up.

Who would the Mansur family have purchased the mineral rights from?  The Queen?  The Dutch?  Wouldn't there be a record of this somewhere?  Newspaper clipping?




Mineral rights are for things that are under the surface of the ground.  Someone can own the land and someone else can own the mineral rights under that land.  The Aruban government owns a certain amount of land that extends into the ocean.  That doesn't mean that they own the mineral rights that are under the ground.  If you own a house and an acre of land in Texas, it's your land.  You might not own the mineral rights, though.  It depends on your deed.  If oil is discovered under your land and you own the mineral rights you get a certain amount of money for every dollar of oil that is pumped to the surface and you rent access to your land if the drill company has to cross it put up a well on the surface.  If you don't own the mineral rights you can only charge an access rent from the drilling company.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #336 on: November 17, 2008, 09:42:28 PM »

Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

It could be something simple.  I  have always wonder who and how many are resting on the ocean floor surrounding Aruba.  All those bones that seem to wash up like pop tops on the beach...

Since I am ignorant of all this geo stuff, how exactly does a "side scan sonor" map the ocean floor AND find mineral and/or oil deposits?  I'm not tracking with the group on this.
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« Reply #337 on: November 17, 2008, 09:43:54 PM »

Yes, I have mineral rights on the farm, but what minerals are on the ocean floor in the Caribbean???
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« Reply #338 on: November 17, 2008, 09:43:59 PM »

Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

YES>>>  I think this is exactly what was going on.  SS you smart monkey, many smart monkeys here, did you see my post about SOI?? It has a Netherland connection.  Some smart monkey can probably figure it out... but my brain is mush.  I have to CLEAN MY HOUSE.... I REALLY DO....... SOMEBODY MAKE ME.........

 
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« Reply #339 on: November 17, 2008, 09:44:16 PM »

Remember, one ot two of Jossy's sons were the divers.  Is that why Kermit kept asking about who the ALE divers were?
SS your a very smart monkey do we know all the people on that boat.
Lets make a list with pictures.
I'll help you with this tomorrow we can start a new thread and put all of it together.

I have almost all of Oceanexploration posts from SM  and lots of pictures.





Blonde - I don't know who those people are.  I recognized Hans Moss and I had to get a Silvetti picture to ID comparison.  I am taking a wild guess that the one in front of Silvetti might be Kermit's polis officer - Clyde Burke, but I really don't know.  When I get home tomorrow afternoon we can take a look.
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