Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru 11/19/08

[iris44]

Sorry for the change of subject; I was reading Dave Holloway's book again and wondered if anyone had found out who created the Aru-Bay.com videos.  Are copies of those videos on SM?  Thanks.

[wreck]

Well, is it still Valero Oil Co, who owns that????

Some company in Brazil...last I heard.

Valero is an American company based in San Antonio, TX.

Only the refinery on Aruba - not Valero itself.




I think Valero is on the other side of the island.  Finding out who owns the mineral rights will be very difficult because it can change acre by acre or however they plot land in Aruba.  Even if the Mansurs don't own the minerals, they still stand to make a fortune because an oil company will need to build transfer facilities, offices, etc.  There will be employment and services needed.  The impact above land on the island will be a tremendous economic boom.  It is interesting that you mention Valero,  They might own minerals in the waters surrounding Aruba, but do they own everything?  Is that why only the north and west section of the island was scanned?

In April 2008, Valero was sold to a Brazilian semi-government company called Petrobras.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/04/02/valero-energy-corporation-sells-aruba-refinery-to-petrobras/

[wreck]

Well, is it still Valero Oil Co, who owns that????

Some company in Brazil...last I heard.

Valero is an American company based in San Antonio, TX.

I think Valero is on the other side of the island.  Finding out who owns the mineral rights will be very difficult because it can change acre by acre or however they plot land in Aruba.  Even if the Mansurs don't own the minerals, they still stand to make a fortune because an oil company will need to build transfer facilities, offices, etc.  There will be employment and services needed.  The impact above land on the island will be a tremendous economic boom.  It is interesting that you mention Valero,  They might own minerals in the waters surrounding Aruba, but do they own everything?  Is that why only the north and west section of the island was scanned?

In April 2008, Valero was sold to a Brazilian semi-government company called Petrobras.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/04/02/valero-energy-corporation-sells-aruba-refinery-to-petrobras/

My answer should here:

Only the refinery on Aruba - not Valero itself.

[SS]

Remember, one ot two of Jossy's sons were the divers.  Is that why Kermit kept asking about who the ALE divers were?

So did they inadvertently discover a drug drop or Jalitza Wever or
Natalee?
The C is Caps message was Cops, right?

I can't remeber what the initials stood for.  Mum would remember.

I'm sure ALE knew about the drug drop location, but remember, it was Caps who told us that the cage had been a drug drop.  It could have been a Natalee drop all by itself.  If Natalee was dismembered like Caps said, she could be in various places.  Only a skull was found, not an entire skeleton. I really don't think that Jossy or Caps have outright lied to us, although I could be wrong.  They were definitely diverting us away from the cage and anything to do with the ocean.  It's really bizarre.  The only time we ever seem to get information is when someone is trying to divert us away from something.  I do believe that Jossy knows what happened that night and I do believe that he will help us as long as it doesn't interfere with his own interests.

OK here is the $100 question....are they diverting us for good or for bad.
Are they just stalling for time to accomplish their oil mission?....
or to continue with the coverup to protect Aruba?
I know Jossy loves Aruba.  It is his home.  But he ain't fond of Van der Sloots.

Mags - I could be very, very wrong, but I don't think Caps and Jossy are lying to us.  They are diverting us away from the ocean.  It's very possible that what we have learned from Caps is absolutely true.  Some of it could be theory that is wrong, but I don't think that Caps or Jossy are making up a story about what happened to Natalee just to lie to us.

I am so glad you think that way, because I feel the same.
Caps has certainly put a lot of effort into his post in Shango.
Told a grand story, if nothing else.  I could just see it all.
I would still like to know who's skull that is.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mags - I think it is Natalee's skull. 

[WhiskeyGirl]

OK.. so is that Clyde Burke on the boat?  Sure looks like him.

All of this is disheartening to me... everything you are saying makes sense about the whole oil exploration thing...I just wanted it to be about Natalee.

So if they want money - fine.  But at least take the remains found and send them to Alabama for a proper burial.  This whole case is one big nightmare. 

I don't know what they found, but I do believe they were sincere about continuing to look for other evidence.  Maybe the cage was a hoax by someone.

IIRC, Oduber was the one that wanted closer ties to Hugo.  

Oduber and Jossy are not friends.  If Hugo controlled the island, what would happen to Jossy and others?

Does anyone think Hugo would let Americans come in and drill for oil?

I don't see the Jossy = Oil connection

Jossy and Oduber are not the best of buddies, from what I've read.

I think Oduber would be a big stumbling block.  IIRC, there is no love between these two.  I have to believe someone on Aruba would have figured this out...imho

[wreck]

Actually, it appears they STILL own it:

http://www.valero.com/AboutUs/Refineries/Aruba.htm

[WhiskeyGirl]

I think this is all the family:

I think this is the wedding that John Silvetti attended in March.  I remember when I was married many years ago, my father's business associates were in attendance.

I must have missed a few things.  Where was it discussed that John Silvetti attended a Mansur wedding in March?  

Isn't it possible that he became friends with Jossy while working to find Natalee?  Isn't it possible that John is a friend?

[Pita]

Actually, it appears they STILL own it:

http://www.valero.com/AboutUs/Refineries/Aruba.htm

Yes, here's more.....

Petrobras: Talks to acquire Aruba, Pasadena refineries on hold - Brazil, Caribbean
Published: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:40 (GMT -0400)

By Fábio Palmigiani,

Brazil's federal energy company Petrobras (NYSE: PBR) has suspended talks to acquire Texas-based Valero Energy's (NYSE: VLO) Aruba refinery and an increased stake in Pasadena Refining.........

http://64.233.169.132/search?q=cache:p8aqFNQMqCYJ:www.bnamericas.com/news/oilandgas/Petrobras:_Talks_to_acquire_Aruba,_Pasadena_refineries_on_hold+petrobras+aruba&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

[MumInOhio]

Does anyone know what a CapsLockWizard is?

[SS]

It should be a simple thing for someone to find out from the Aruban government who owns the mineral rights to the seabed around Aruba.

Anyone have contacts?  Maybe someone on Refugees?  

IIRC, after a certain point, the seabed is international property, not sure who owns that.

Am just downloading an adobe document (dinosaur dialup so long time coming) that may be global by country but as far as who the leases were put out to in reality, if so, that could get pretty convoluted when I think of the mission statements of those 2 companies that CLW brought to our attention:  Arulex & Icon, Icon's Director's aren't even reflected & the mission statements of both of these companies, imo is down right scary, they have carte blanche, damn some of it I contend looks like they could break the law & it would be grandy ole fine.  They can use ficticious names it appears, it's the nuttiest stuff I've ever seen & have read more company annual reports than I even want to remember.  The only thing it appears they are restricted from is dealing with the public at large.  The can extend credit but are not subject to any kind of banking restrictions as they are not allowed to deal with the public. 

Arulex Managing directors (5) 4 are Dutch Arubans (Dutch born on Aruba) & one is Dutch (born in the Netherlands)  Guess who the oldest & probably controlling Director is, well it is Hendrik Serafino Croes 66 yrs old & the co has existed since 1975, he's also the moron that hit & run the ALE to receive a 3 yr cond release & 160 community service, bet he does that sitting at his comfy desk.

Will let you know but if anybody can get the scoop it is Destiny, the all resourceful.

Altruist - groups of people could be holding the rights under holding company names.  I doubt very much if these purchases are recent.  They probably go back to the 1940s when Aruba started to develop and even when Valero blew into town.  I acquired mineral rights when I purchased properties for personal use and rental.  Then when I sold the properties, there was a claus placed in each deed which said that I maintained the mineral rights.  Almost every single original deed would have to be checked.  At this point, there aren't a lot of properties in the State of Oklahoma that still have original mineral rights attached with the sale of the surface land.  Most of the mineral rights have been grabbed up.

[vms]

I think this is all the family:

I think this is the wedding that John Silvetti attended in March.  I remember when I was married many years ago, my father's business associates were in attendance.

I must have missed a few things.  Where was it discussed that John Silvetti attended a Mansur wedding in March?  

Isn't it possible that he became friends with Jossy while working to find Natalee?  Isn't it possible that John is a friend?

It is possible and I wouldn't find it unusual if the sons were working with them on the boat. JMO.

[klaasend]

Sorry for the change of subject; I was reading Dave Holloway's book again and wondered if anyone had found out who created the Aru-Bay.com videos.  Are copies of those videos on SM?  Thanks.

Copies of the videos are still on the main Aru-bay index:

http://www.aru-bay.com/images/

They were also added to google videos by poster Chicago_510:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4099719971643396692&q=source:008846888706825669709&hl=en

The person who ran the Aru-Bay site claims his name was Ed Smith.  He claims he took those videos.  ALL of the information pertaining to the Aru-bay videos when to the family and FBI way back when.

[Magnolia]

Our next big task is to figure out exactly how Caps is related to the Mansurs.  Is it on the Mansur side or on Jossy's wife's side?
[/quote

You are the genealogy expert!   

It has taken me years to do my families.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Good night monkeys.  What thing I learned reading the cage a long time ago...moneys always check the facts.  Don't assume anything!

The devil is in the details...   

[Altruist]

I think Valero is on the other side of the island.  Finding out who owns the mineral rights will be very difficult because it can change acre by acre or however they plot land in Aruba.  Even if the Mansurs don't own the minerals, they still stand to make a fortune because an oil company will need to build transfer facilities, offices, etc.  There will be employment and services needed.  The impact above land on the island will be a tremendous economic boom.  It is interesting that you mention Valero,  They might own minerals in the waters surrounding Aruba, but do they own everything?  Is that why only the north and west section of the island was scanned?

Today I downloaded the XL spreadsheet of the Lawsuit statements to look at the interviewing ALE names & low & behold there is a line that said that on 7/4/05 3 F-16's utilized infrared sensors in their search, googled aerial infrared sensors oil exploration & YUP, didn't notice the technology referencing body searches though.  So maybe due to what came up from those aerial searches showed where the tweeking should be done using the side scan sonar(EdgeTech 4200-FS), magnetometer, and bathymetric mapping abilities we were told about being on the Persistence, never mind what they could have had in addition to what was in the press.

Wish I had been better in the sciences, the only think that interested me was reproduction cuz I didn't want to.  LOL

[SS]

Does anyone know what a CapsLockWizard is?

It's an old term that was used by "journalists".

[vms]

Does anyone know what a CapsLockWizard is?

I don't know why but that cracked me up, lol.
Do you know what a vms is? 

[MumInOhio]

Does anyone know what a CapsLockWizard is?

It's an old term that was used by "journalists".

Printing trade to be exact...IIRC   

[MumInOhio]

Does anyone know what a CapsLockWizard is?

I don't know why but that cracked me up, lol.
Do you know what a vms is? 

 

A very clever Monkey!

[SS]

Our next big task is to figure out exactly how Caps is related to the Mansurs.  Is it on the Mansur side or on Jossy's wife's side?
[/quote

You are the genealogy expert!   

It has taken me years to do my families.

I'm too weary right now to even think about it.  I actually did do some poking into that clan last summer when we were wroking on the Chemalys and Zedans.  I didn't find a lot except that they had come from Lebanon to Venezuela to Aruba.  I think the Monkey's uncle was actually born in Aruba to Venezuelan citizens.  I think he actually has three citizenships - Venezuela from the parents and he owns businesses there, Aruba by birth, and Dutch because he was born on a Dutch island and lived there for a certain amount of time.  There is ownership of Dutch interests, too.  He's not a US citizen, but does own businesses here.