Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru 11/19/08

[texasmom]

Edited to add Helen Back's post about Caps that Kermit changed to Red:

Reply #793 on: Today at 11:30:04 AM »
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.780
Helen Beck is correct

This is what Helen said:

If we are going to talk about this today, let's review what Kermit said. 

We reviewed PI's post and it's clear from his conversation with Kyle that what is show in the pictures is not what was sent to the FBI.  It seems someone switched the fabric and whatever genetic material was discovered.  There appears to be a skull and a shoe in the photographs we saw.  Kermit is telling us to look at the divers, obviously they covered up what was discovered in the trap. 


and SS
hit the jackpot
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.940

Posted the two pics with John Silvetti

Now think it through.
Who was suppose to show up and help?
Who got Tim off the boat and when or why?


Reply #882 on: Today at 04:56:40 PM »
yes,johan555 we know.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.880

johan555 said:
on a thai forum :
Joran can only  have a big mouth umong his Aruban people. Not among, Thaipeople
Now he is a hunted deer. And not by one man

so i think he is still in Thailand  jmo



Reply #720 on: Today at 09:41:10 AM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.720
SS - follow the money

SS said:
I've had some time to settle my brains, and a number of things are coming up for me.  Last night, someone mentioned oil exploration.  I think this is one purpose  of Silvetti's business.  This could be a wild thought, but is it possible that an agreement was made with Arube to scan and grid for future offshore drilling sites while searching for Natalee at the same time?  It's interesting that Persstence did stay and complete the grids even after ALE took the trap contents.  Persistence was there for at least another month after ALE divers took the evidence.  Did some people make some money off of this oil exploration deal?  Aruba has a surface grid of the ocean off their coast, TES found the evidence they wanted, and Silvetti (et. al.) could have made a lot of money creating the grid map of the ocean floor.  Just a thought.


 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #700 on: Today at 08:04:45 AM »
BINGO
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.700

Buckeye said:
There must have been another set of pictures showing evidence retrieved from the cage.  PI mentioned "zip lock bags".  There must have been pictures involving zip lock bags with contents. 
    
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #548 on: November 15, 2008, 08:55:58 PM
How much is a pawn worth? I muse tonight.
/scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.540

Wreck said:
Side note:
We were discussing Ocean Explorer (Kyle). Many of us now think he was "duped" and kept "out of the loop". I remember tamiko's mom commenting at the time that she thought OE was lying to us about the "pond search." ........ At the time, I told her he just wasn't in on all the details --- now, I'm am really convinced he was an unknowing pawn. I am suspicious of Persistence management. Nothing is making any rational sense. Part of Natalee WAS in that trap -- I have always thought this!
    
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #551 on: November 15, 2008, 08:57:38 PM
Bingo Mum. Leaks like a sieve for a price or purpose?
i/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.540

Mum said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: MumInOhio on November 15, 2008, 08:53:44 PM
Quote from: Magnolia on November 15, 2008, 08:47:44 PM
Who was Simian's uncle that was a polis officer?
Rudolph Solinger?



Rufo...Simian was Monkey!!!!



C has to be Clyde, but what of the other two?

I'm trying to look, but...............


 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #524 on: November 15, 2008, 08:26:35 PM »
Which dive - would you know?
//scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.520

vms said:

I don't understand any of this but it was Tim Trahan, an American, who went down with the Aruban divers and came back up and told Tim Miller there was nothing.

    
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #528 on: November 15, 2008, 08:31:23 PM
affirmative.
//scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.520

Wreck said:
Kermit said he would "sneak in like 007" if we were getting warm! (Kermit doesn't want to be "outted")
    
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #442 on: November 15, 2008, 07:21:16 PM »
Wreck said:
Not asking for any identifying details -- but what is Kermit's "profession"?? (I have a pretty good idea)http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.440
ribbit



    
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #449 on: November 15, 2008, 07:23:15 PM »
Helen Beck - BINGO!
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.440
Helen said:

Sounds to me like the material recovered was switched and the photos were also switched.


 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #419 on: November 15, 2008, 06:55:38 PM »
If I remember correctly, FBI sent them to Dave.
/scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.400

Klaas said:
Get this straight, I have no idea who actually gave those photos to Robin.  All I know is that Robin gave permission for the photos to be posted at BNH and someone emailed them to me.

Who really sent them to Robin I couldn't tell you and NO, I will not take Robin's word for it.

    
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #389 on: November 15, 2008, 06:39:52 PM »
I love that song for 'The Apprentice' - the melody, the words are so
shall I say the evil that drives some men.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.380
Wreck said:
The Persistence left VERY abruptly -- Red stated that he was flabbergasted by the news. Folks, is the Persistence owner (Silvetti) the questionable one here?



Helen Back said and Kermit made Red:

I don't think CAPS' credibility has been questioned, simply that the initials he posted would give a clue as to who diverted monkeys attention away from the sea search and toward the pond story. 

   

I went back and posted all the posts that Kermit cited in Red.  Congratulations to all the winners, GREAT WORK Monkeys!.... and us losers will just have to work harder!

 

[MumInOhio]

Kermit's Follow up questions:

Now think it through.
Who was suppose to show up and help?
Who got Tim off the boat and when or why?

Bump...

[MumInOhio]

Posting this from the Persistence search thread because of the date that Kermit posted, January 17th.

I am not implying this has anything to do with Caps' first post...the date caught my attention.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.80


Re: Ocean Search - Aruba - December 2007
« Reply #96 on: January 17, 2008, 11:00:29 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update: Thurs 17-Jan 2320 hrs

The Persistence left the dock today at 1224 hrs. The trade winds are howling at 30+kts. The 8ft+ seas are growing and brimming with white caps rolling in from the northeast. The occasional 12-14ft swell rocks the Persistence mercilessly along with its inhabitants. Inside, life goes on as usual and spirits are high. Exceptionally large swells throw around anything that isn't dogged down. The galley clock gets thrown off the wall and is now stuck reading 8:35. It seems we also have high-tech self-clearing shelves, tables, and counters. Traversing around inside the boat is a novelty in high seas. People turn into walking pendulums making Z-shaped paths leaning to and fro 30 degrees. The comedy is abruptly interupted with a sobering reminder of the ocean's peril over the radio.

2100 hrs - A call comes on the radio from the Aruban Port Authority requesting the Persistence assist a vessel in distress. A sailboat named Michelle with 6 reported on board is adrift. In such strong winds and high seas it's possible the sailboat could have broken its mast. All we know is that they need immediate help. The search team picks up the sonar and immediately heads in the reported direction of the distressed vessel. For miles we scan the dark horizon as Curacao, Aruba, and the Persistence carefully monitor the radio. Finally, we receive a position and plot a bearing and range -4.5 miles, heading 210 degrees. After a while, the Aruban port authority once again raises the Persistence on the radio, only this time with a very different position. It seems not only is the Michelle adrift, she is very lost. I can only imagine what kind of hell the people on board are going through. Powerless, drifting, scared, alone, and at the mercy of perilous seas the Michelle hopes and waits for rescue somewhere offshore Curacao. The Persistence is called off its search and turns towards the Port of Aruba at 2300 hrs. Although unspoken, we all feel a sense of disappointment knowing the Michelle is still out there in danger.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/xii-perilous-seas.html

[Blonde]

Guy with red shirt on

[Blonde]

Kermit - I see you lurking.  Here's a treat if you'll help us with the initials.

one is a polis officer.
one is a monkey's uncle.
one is a monkey.

Now can I eat the treat!
ribbit

The monkey  was AG her uncle I think was a Croes

[MumInOhio]

Kermit - I see you lurking.  Here's a treat if you'll help us with the initials.

one is a polis officer.
one is a monkey's uncle.
one is a monkey.

Now can I eat the treat!
ribbit

The monkey  was AG her uncle I think was a Croes

Hi Blonde....I have been thinking AG as well.  All I recall of the Croes relationship was that it was distant...I think...???

Any idea how Cyde Burke fits in...Is it tied to many thinkng he was Simian?  TIA

[MumInOhio]

My one brain cell is totaly confused on what was dicovered last night! Can some-one please give me a summary regarding Kyle, John S, Siverfox and anything ls that was relevant?

Thanks in Advance...

[Nut44x4]

Most of us knew that 'quick, get to the pond' was a ruse. We discussed it in depth at the time. We were also very leery of the Dutch Coast Guard visit and the divers and anyone else that was tied to that stinking, crack infested Island being any where near that boat. None of this should come as a surprise to anyone.

[Helen Back]

Most of us knew that 'quick, get to the pond' was a ruse. We discussed it in depth at the time. We were also very leery of the Dutch Coast Guard visit and the divers and anyone else that was tied to that stinking, crack infested Island being any where near that boat. None of this should come as a surprise to anyone.

Morning all,

Seems we didn't do as badly as I thought we did. LOL

MUM,  I think Kermit is telling you that you hit the monkey and monkey's uncle.

Clyde is a monkey (Simian) and his uncle is Rufo?  I'm looking at Kermit's post in red:

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #551 on: November 15, 2008, 08:57:38 PM
Bingo Mum. Leaks like a sieve for a price or purpose?
i/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.540

Mum said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: MumInOhio on November 15, 2008, 08:53:44 PM
Quote from: Magnolia on November 15, 2008, 08:47:44 PM
Who was Simian's uncle that was a polis officer?
Rudolph Solinger?



Rufo...Simian was Monkey!!!!


I think we all got sidetracked on the monkey being SM.

I cannot remember who was supposed to help Tim ...........and did not. Maybe another monkey will remember.  Was it Jossy?

We all thought it was fishy when we saw Tim Trahan give the thumbs down on the video, after having seen the photos.  Guess that one's answered.

I'm out for a while this morning, but will check in ASAP.

Helen Back

[Blonde]

I have saved almost all Kyle's posts from SM and other places.

Nut44x4..
For the record... Lex is not my sister. She's the sister of the R/V Persistence owner. Please correct the post, thanks.

On another note.. this will be my last posting here. I will monitor the Ocean Search thread carefully. Please continue following along. I will post updates on the ship's search blog as soon as I get settled in Aruba and have some time. Thanks for your prayers and help.

~Kyle

[Helen Back]

So Sorry! 

Forgot to say thank you TM and billb for fixing up Kermit's post to us......that really helps!

Thanks Kermit.

Later monkeys.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Kermit's Follow up questions:

Now think it through.
Who was suppose to show up and help?
Who got Tim off the boat and when or why?

Bump...

Dr. Hodges mentions in his diary/blog during that timeframe that Tim Miller met him one morning after being aboard the Persistence.  (my track record hasn't been too good on these Kermit research projects    )

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

Joran also pulled the wine throwing in Peter's face around that same period, iirc.

[Blonde]

Most of us knew that 'quick, get to the pond' was a ruse. We discussed it in depth at the time. We were also very leery of the Dutch Coast Guard visit and the divers and anyone else that was tied to that stinking, crack infested Island being any where near that boat. None of this should come as a surprise to anyone.

Morning all,

Seems we didn't do as badly as I thought we did. LOL

MUM,  I think Kermit is telling you that you hit the monkey and monkey's uncle.

Clyde is a monkey (Simian) and his uncle is Rufo?  I'm looking at Kermit's post in red:

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #551 on: November 15, 2008, 08:57:38 PM
Bingo Mum. Leaks like a sieve for a price or purpose?
i/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.540

Mum said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: MumInOhio on November 15, 2008, 08:53:44 PM
Quote from: Magnolia on November 15, 2008, 08:47:44 PM
Who was Simian's uncle that was a polis officer?
Rudolph Solinger?



Rufo...Simian was Monkey!!!!


I think we all got sidetracked on the monkey being SM.

I cannot remember who was supposed to help Tim ...........and did not. Maybe another monkey will remember.  Was it Jossy?

We all thought it was fishy when we saw Tim Trahan give the thumbs down on the video, after having seen the photos.  Guess that one's answered.

I'm out for a while this morning, but will check in ASAP.

Helen Back

To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.

By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up

[Blonde]

-The famous "thumbs down" - Tim Trahan said he could not conclusively see human skeletal remains. The signals were: One thumb up for skeletal remains (body), two thumbs up for Natalee. When Tim came out of the water as seen on camera in the Dateline special, he was winded from the dive and gave a short answer of "No, nothing". He (along with many of us) were expecting something very clear and immediately identifiable. It wasn't so clear or obvious as he (and we, along with Tim Miller) expected and hoped upon visual-only inspection.
Tim (along with myself) didn't expect an intact skeleton. We expected a high level of scavenging by small to moderate sized predators including crustaceans, grouper, small sharks..etc. which (IMO) would likely spread any remains radially away from the trap opening.

[2NJSons_Mom]

My one brain cell is totaly confused on what was dicovered last night! Can some-one please give me a summary regarding Kyle, John S, Siverfox and anything ls that was relevant?

Thanks in Advance...

Silvetti was ID'd as one of the men in Kermit's pic regarding the dive.  The dates of the dives were questioned, and subsequently Kyle's posts here & his posts on the Persistence search website were scrutinized.  He said he was on a break from 1/9 to 1/14, saw activity from shore on 1/11 & 1/12, yet posted on the ship site that he was onboard.  Silverfox came up due to something I found while searching.  Kyle's vid from the website was put on YouTube and a comment by silverfox04 peaked my attention because it stated he was aboard that day.  See here:  http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=mR5hUZqvFFA

[Helen Back]

-The famous "thumbs down" - Tim Trahan said he could not conclusively see human skeletal remains. The signals were: One thumb up for skeletal remains (body), two thumbs up for Natalee. When Tim came out of the water as seen on camera in the Dateline special, he was winded from the dive and gave a short answer of "No, nothing". He (along with many of us) were expecting something very clear and immediately identifiable. It wasn't so clear or obvious as he (and we, along with Tim Miller) expected and hoped upon visual-only inspection.
Tim (along with myself) didn't expect an intact skeleton. We expected a high level of scavenging by small to moderate sized predators including crustaceans, grouper, small sharks..etc. which (IMO) would likely spread any remains radially away from the trap opening.

Thanks, Blonde, for clearing that up.

but Kermit is trying to tell us something here:

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #524 on: November 15, 2008, 08:26:35 PM »
Which dive - would you know?
//scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.520
I don't understand any of this but it was Tim Trahan, an American, who went down with the Aruban divers and came back up and told Tim Miller there was nothing.

Now I'm late.  Bye

[Pita]

I was lost still posting on the last thread.

The photograph below is oceanexploration.

VMS - could I please have some links to the John Coffey guy and could someone explain how he would be connected to the fish trap coverup and the Persistence search?  Is he a diver?

2NJ - OE was here in NJ because he was going to school at Rutgers.  I think he and his wife and new baby are living in Texas or LA now.  Mags - I am so starting to lean toward what you said about him being the Monkey.  He even refused to give Private Eye any information about the shirt and the trap - that's family. The Frog did keep telling us to go back and read PEs posts.  Froggy also put his picture up with the rest of them - that's a big message.

Wanted to say that I knew about Rutgers, but nothing further after the baby was born...guess it doesn't matter..

Kyle's Experience
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager
Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
(Oil & Energy industry)

October 2008 — Present (2 months)

Manager
Kingman Geophysical Solutions
(Oil & Energy industry)

May 2004 — October 2008 (4 years 6 months)

[klaasend]

Why when Private Eye said this....Kyle followed up with.....  (by the way, what happened to PI?)

Hey everyone. Not so many pages of posts but there are certainly some very relevant and interesting posts, with potential significance. I wish I could stay at the computer but unfortunately, time won't permit this week.

Klaas, I would think that Bram's evaluation of the case for Beth might include a review of liability the entities you mentioned might bear.

Janet- Very timely post and an excellent choice showing the foreshadowing of Jesus and then the reasons that we believers believe. I noticed though that in the foreshadowing, "the one" is going to be allowed to see their offspring, which reminds me of the debate whether Jesus had any children, and I assume Mary Magdalene would be the mother. I am really not that familiar with that theory, but am aware of it, and that mention is the first time I have noticed any writing that even suggests that if Jesus is the person mentioned in the prophecy, then it would not be against ALL of the teachings of the Bible for him to have had children. Anyway, it is good to read relevant scriptures in a timely fashion to reinforce the reason for the holiday. AND IT IS REALLY NOT OFF TOPIC BECAUSE IT MAKES DAVE AND BETH'S HEART A LITTLE LIGHTER TO REMIND THEM THAT INDEED LIFE IS EVERLASTING FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND ACCEPT, AND THEIR WORRIES A LITTLE LESS TO KNOW THAT NATALEE IS WITH A GOD WHO KNOWS THE PAIN OF WATCHING A CHILD SUFFER AND THUS GIVES THEM FAITH TO ALLOW AND TRUST HIM TO HEAL THERE PAIN. In addition, Easter is a holiday that Beth and her kids usually celebrated with Beth's Mom, so this is a joyous occasion as they celebrate the fact that Christ arose from the dead but also a very reflective time for Mrs. Reynolds as the silence of Natalee's disappearance can be deafening for the living she left behind. This holiday thus reinforces the belief that there is life after this life, and that while they may miss Natalee, she is where everybody hopes to be one day. It will be a good time to watch the tapes of all of the grandchildren parading around in their Easter clothes, enjoying each other and their family, and even hunting Easter Eggs:)

Kyle- I emailed Beth your concerns and have suggested to her that she contact the appropriate people on the Persistence, including yourself, and attempt to reconcile as best they can the material the crew saw recovered from the cage versus what they received. I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made, and reminded her that the press release said that the material did not match her blouse. I also pointed out that in the December 30 photo there appeared to be a skull and in the January 7, it did not look at all like a skull. But I did think I noticed a second object in one of the zip lock bags that could possibly be the object that resembled a skull, possibly. I am a little amazed that the denim looks remarkably NOT deteriorated. Mostly I was trying to pique her interest to get her to contact the appropriate people. I think Dave worked closely with the owner of the boat, so he may well have already done this. But I know Beth appreciates the heads up, as do I. You are a good man. I did tell her my main concern was that you were concerned, and that I respect and trust your judgment enough for her to investigate this. Thanks.

The grindstone is calling so everybody have a great day and Holiday weekend. Happy Easter:)

Private Eye,

Please email me to discuss this further, not in the forum thanks!

I don't think I said anything about the type of fabric sampled from the trap in the forum.  I'm not sure where this came from.  In any case, PE please email me to discuss. 

would a moderator please send Private Eye my email address?  Thanks in advance.

[MumInOhio]

My one brain cell is totaly confused on what was dicovered last night! Can some-one please give me a summary regarding Kyle, John S, Siverfox and anything ls that was relevant?

Thanks in Advance...

Silvetti was ID'd as one of the men in Kermit's pic regarding the dive.  The dates of the dives were questioned, and subsequently Kyle's posts here & his posts on the Persistence search website were scrutinized.  He said he was on a break from 1/9 to 1/14, saw activity from shore on 1/11 & 1/12, yet posted on the ship site that he was onboard.  Silverfox came up due to something I found while searching.  Kyle's vid from the website was put on YouTube and a comment by silverfox04 peaked my attention because it stated he was aboard that day.  See here:  http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=mR5hUZqvFFA

Thanks 2NJ...Now I get it...LOL

So if Kyle posted he was on board and he wasn't...What is to be made of this?  Thanks again...

[Edward]

there must have been other dives ?

Jossy sends out a search crew that know where the crab trap is located and his crew made the first dive ?
and planted the one shoe.. ?

Get the real evidence and plant some new evidence..