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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru 11/19/08  (Read 259719 times)
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Pita
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« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2008, 09:48:48 AM »

I was lost still posting on the last thread.

The photograph below is oceanexploration.

VMS - could I please have some links to the John Coffey guy and could someone explain how he would be connected to the fish trap coverup and the Persistence search?  Is he a diver?

2NJ - OE was here in NJ because he was going to school at Rutgers.  I think he and his wife and new baby are living in Texas or LA now.  Mags - I am so starting to lean toward what you said about him being the Monkey.  He even refused to give Private Eye any information about the shirt and the trap - that's family. The Frog did keep telling us to go back and read PEs posts.  Froggy also put his picture up with the rest of them - that's a big message.



Wanted to say that I knew about Rutgers, but nothing further after the baby was born...guess it doesn't matter..

Kyle's Experience
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager
Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
(Oil & Energy industry)

October 2008 — Present (2 months)

Manager
Kingman Geophysical Solutions
(Oil & Energy industry)

May 2004 — October 2008 (4 years 6 months)


http://www.alpineocean.com/

Alpine maintains its corporate headquarters in Norwood, New Jersey. Alpine has an affiliate company in Italy, Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Italy, S.R.L.,  and logistics contacts throughout West Africa, South and Central America.
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Magnolia
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« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2008, 09:49:14 AM »

Kermit's Follow up questions:

Now think it through.
Who was suppose to show up and help?
Who got Tim off the boat and when or why?


Morning Monkeys!
That frog snuck in like Santa Claus.  I was here alone.
I looked away and his post were here and he was not.  Amaing!
Then my computer went wonky and I just turned it off and went to bed.

Back to the Persistence....Kyle said that they were waiting for a dive
crew to fly in...maybe an FBI dive team.
Then I remember that he posted that the dive team had arrived.

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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2008, 09:55:30 AM »

Why when Private Eye said this....Kyle followed up with.....  (by the way, what happened to PI?)

Hey everyone. Not so many pages of posts but there are certainly some very relevant and interesting posts, with potential significance. I wish I could stay at the computer but unfortunately, time won't permit this week.

Klaas, I would think that Bram's evaluation of the case for Beth might include a review of liability the entities you mentioned might bear.

Janet- Very timely post and an excellent choice showing the foreshadowing of Jesus and then the reasons that we believers believe. I noticed though that in the foreshadowing, "the one" is going to be allowed to see their offspring, which reminds me of the debate whether Jesus had any children, and I assume Mary Magdalene would be the mother. I am really not that familiar with that theory, but am aware of it, and that mention is the first time I have noticed any writing that even suggests that if Jesus is the person mentioned in the prophecy, then it would not be against ALL of the teachings of the Bible for him to have had children. Anyway, it is good to read relevant scriptures in a timely fashion to reinforce the reason for the holiday. AND IT IS REALLY NOT OFF TOPIC BECAUSE IT MAKES DAVE AND BETH'S HEART A LITTLE LIGHTER TO REMIND THEM THAT INDEED LIFE IS EVERLASTING FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND ACCEPT, AND THEIR WORRIES A LITTLE LESS TO KNOW THAT NATALEE IS WITH A GOD WHO KNOWS THE PAIN OF WATCHING A CHILD SUFFER AND THUS GIVES THEM FAITH TO ALLOW AND TRUST HIM TO HEAL THERE PAIN. In addition, Easter is a holiday that Beth and her kids usually celebrated with Beth's Mom, so this is a joyous occasion as they celebrate the fact that Christ arose from the dead but also a very reflective time for Mrs. Reynolds as the silence of Natalee's disappearance can be deafening for the living she left behind. This holiday thus reinforces the belief that there is life after this life, and that while they may miss Natalee, she is where everybody hopes to be one day. It will be a good time to watch the tapes of all of the grandchildren parading around in their Easter clothes, enjoying each other and their family, and even hunting Easter Eggs:)

Kyle- I emailed Beth your concerns and have suggested to her that she contact the appropriate people on the Persistence, including yourself, and attempt to reconcile as best they can the material the crew saw recovered from the cage versus what they received. I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made, and reminded her that the press release said that the material did not match her blouse. I also pointed out that in the December 30 photo there appeared to be a skull and in the January 7, it did not look at all like a skull. But I did think I noticed a second object in one of the zip lock bags that could possibly be the object that resembled a skull, possibly. I am a little amazed that the denim looks remarkably NOT deteriorated. Mostly I was trying to pique her interest to get her to contact the appropriate people. I think Dave worked closely with the owner of the boat, so he may well have already done this. But I know Beth appreciates the heads up, as do I. You are a good man. I did tell her my main concern was that you were concerned, and that I respect and trust your judgment enough for her to investigate this. Thanks.

The grindstone is calling so everybody have a great day and Holiday weekend. Happy Easter:)



Private Eye,

Please email me to discuss this further, not in the forum thanks!

I don't think I said anything about the type of fabric sampled from the trap in the forum.  I'm not sure where this came from.  In any case, PE please email me to discuss. 

would a moderator please send Private Eye my email address?  Thanks in advance.

Yes, I wondered about this back then, and posted it yesterday.  Why did he seem uneasy about PI's post and yes, where is PI?
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« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2008, 09:57:35 AM »

Who is this?

Who is this?
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Magnolia
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« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2008, 09:59:37 AM »

Kermit - I see you lurking.  Here's a treat if you'll help us with the initials.



one is a polis officer.
one is a monkey's uncle.
one is a monkey.

Now can I eat the treat!
ribbit




The monkey  was AG her uncle I think was a Croes


Hi Blonde....I have been thinking AG as well.  All I recall of the Croes relationship was that it was distant...I think...???

Any idea how Cyde Burke fits in...Is it tied to many thinkng he was Simian?  TIA



Aruba Girl is a cousin to Steve Croes if that helps.
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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2008, 10:07:21 AM »

Who is this?

Who is this?


Silvetti is the one with the red shirt...
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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
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« Reply #86 on: November 17, 2008, 10:08:21 AM »

Blonde,

I don't know if these help.

No mention of the John Coffey pic?

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2008, 10:08:40 AM »

Re: Ocean Search - Aruba - December 2007
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2007, 01:26:10 PM »Nut
________________________________________
From Aug. 2005 ...Scared Monkeys
Divers Search For Natalee Holloway off Aruba’s East Coast
 
About eight volunteer divers explored waters off Aruba’s east coast Sunday searching for Natalee Holloway. The divers were searching waters about one mile from a beach near the Holiday Inn where Holloway stayed.

(CBS/AP) Volunteer divers explored waters off Aruba’s east coast Sunday, hoping to find clues in the disappearance of missing U.S. teen Natalee Holloway.


At least eight divers volunteered to search waters about one mile from a beach near the Holiday Inn where Holloway stayed during a vacation to celebrate her high school graduation, said Eduardo Mansur, co-founder of the Aruba Search and Rescue Foundation.

Although the waters have been searched before, the group claims a radar machine invented by an American has detected human bones in the area. The inventor, Joe Walker, came to Aruba to help in the search but is currently off the island, Mansur said.

Extensive searches have produced no trace of Holloway.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/28/divers-search-for-natalee-of-the-aruban-coast/


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.0



    Re: Ocean Search - Aruba - December 2007
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2007, 11:49:43 AM » klaas
________________________________________
Jossy was going to search in September:

http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/2007/09/if-they-wont-do-it-then-we-will.html

Sunday, September 30, 2007
“If They Won’t Do It, Then We Will!”
DIARIO has made the decision to perform a water search for Natalee Holloway at their expense. At this time necessary equipment is still being gathered, but the search should commence within the next several days. I’ve been promised a day by day report detailing each event surrounding this latest endeavor.

Way to go Jossy! It has become abundantly clear no one else is willing to make this effort. We applaud your persistence!

Update: We have a pretty good recent lead to go on. Our searches start by mid week, around Wednesday or Thursday. There is a lot of preparatory work to be done before we send the boat out with the necessary divers and equipment. We as Arubans do not need any kind of permit for the activity we are to embark on. That makes it easier.

I will let you know as soon as we are ready to embark on the first search to a spot we have mapped on the ocean.

Update II: So far...

... a lot of disappointments. It seems that the reading taken over a year ago of a specific target are no longer valid. It was explained to me that the pinpointed target has moved due to underwater currents, sand shifts, recent and past bad oceanic conditions created by the passing hurricanes to the north of the island, close to where the target was located, etc.) and has not been relocated yet in its new (and disintegrated) presence. However, I have asked them to try to pinpoint at least a part (the largest possible) of the target and to go for it, but they said it would take time and it makes the search more indefinite as far as location is concerned. The search, therefore, will take time before it can proceed. I will keep you posted on everything, good and bad, related to the search, and when it can be finally done with whatever percentages of success may exist.

This seems to have been the characteristics of this case: one disappointment after another! How can so many factors combine to make a simple case so difficult to solve? Beats me!

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Pita
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« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2008, 10:14:16 AM »

-The famous "thumbs down" - Tim Trahan said he could not conclusively see human skeletal remains. The signals were: One thumb up for skeletal remains (body), two thumbs up for Natalee. When Tim came out of the water as seen on camera in the Dateline special, he was winded from the dive and gave a short answer of "No, nothing". He (along with many of us) were expecting something very clear and immediately identifiable. It wasn't so clear or obvious as he (and we, along with Tim Miller) expected and hoped upon visual-only inspection.
Tim (along with myself) didn't expect an intact skeleton. We expected a high level of scavenging by small to moderate sized predators including crustaceans, grouper, small sharks..etc. which (IMO) would likely spread any remains radially away from the trap opening.


Thanks, Blonde, for clearing that up.

but Kermit is trying to tell us something here:

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #524 on: November 15, 2008, 08:26:35 PM »
Which dive - would you know?
//scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.520
I don't understand any of this but it was Tim Trahan, an American, who went down with the Aruban divers and came back up and told Tim Miller there was nothing.

Now I'm late.  Bye



snipped....

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.

The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat)

Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap.

They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.

The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap.

The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat)

No it's thumbs down.

Negative, not it.

Crushing disppointment.

(On the boat)

Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.


Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.

Now Tim Miller had to deliver that same crushing blow to Natalee’s parents.

Chris Hansen: How hard is it for you to dial their numbers and tell them that this in fact is not the break in the case we-- we hoped for?

Tim Miller: Probably one of the hardest calls I ever made. Probably one of the hardest … probably should have never made the first one. But everything looked right at the time.

Natalee’s father was at home in Mississippi when the call came.

Chris Hansen: What was it like for you to, once again, have a setback?

Dave Holloway: That's probably about the time that-- the chest pains intensified to an extreme. I mean, how many times can I take this?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #89 on: November 17, 2008, 10:14:50 AM »

Kermit - I see you lurking.  Here's a treat if you'll help us with the initials.



one is a polis officer.
one is a monkey's uncle.
one is a monkey.

Now can I eat the treat!
ribbit




The monkey  was AG her uncle I think was a Croes


Hi Blonde....I have been thinking AG as well.  All I recall of the Croes relationship was that it was distant...I think...???

Any idea how Cyde Burke fits in...Is it tied to many thinkng he was Simian?  TIA



Aruba Girl is a cousin to Steve Croes if that helps.


Magnolia...please don't take this wrong...LOL....but do you know this for sure?

Some have been round and round on whom both of them are related to that is all!
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« Reply #90 on: November 17, 2008, 10:18:37 AM »

there must have been other dives ?

Jossy sends out a search crew that know where the crab trap is located and his crew made the first dive ?
and planted the one shoe.. ?

Get the real evidence and plant some new evidence..


Questions, if anyone would answer:
(1) Are we to entertain the possibility of Jossy (or Arubans) to have dove the waters and planted a crab trap, which would later be found by the Persistence crew? Surely, nothing would surprise me at this juncture of the game...
(2) Has it been discovered who steered attention away from the ocean search and to the the pond area, as alluded to in the past few days cryptic message clues?
(3) Would ocean evidence cancel all theories as to Caps recent post of Matty appts, dismemberment, hiding of body in pieces around the island?
(4) Has Simian, Shango been 100% conclusively identified? If so, please see to it that their testicles are clamped in a vice and stuck with pins and needles for the thousands of hours spent to decipher and decode their riddles?

Comments, Observations by me:
(1) Jossy has been labeled "hero" to alot of posters. I still say (and borrowed from an old saying) that a dog does not shit where they eat. Meaning that as much as Jossy may dislike Sloot family and, in turn, help NH, SM, and collective causes, I am of the opinion that he realizes where his bread is buttered. His loyalty, in the end, is with Aruba, and its residents. He may be playing both sides of the fence. I hope everyone keeps this in the back of their minds.
(2) Caps, Kermit seem to be trusted as knowing an awful lot in this case. It matters none to me as long as it leads somewhere down the path of truth. I only hope (and assume) that they are as reliable as they are counted on to be by other posters.
(3) Everyone with coded information, in my opinion, should feel some obligation that they may know parts of the conspiracy to cover a crime and, even in secrecy, reveal the information to non-corrupt authority so as to lay this crime, its participants, its cover-up facilitators, etc.. to rest once and for all.
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Magnolia
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« Reply #91 on: November 17, 2008, 10:21:21 AM »

-The famous "thumbs down" - Tim Trahan said he could not conclusively see human skeletal remains. The signals were: One thumb up for skeletal remains (body), two thumbs up for Natalee. When Tim came out of the water as seen on camera in the Dateline special, he was winded from the dive and gave a short answer of "No, nothing". He (along with many of us) were expecting something very clear and immediately identifiable. It wasn't so clear or obvious as he (and we, along with Tim Miller) expected and hoped upon visual-only inspection.
Tim (along with myself) didn't expect an intact skeleton. We expected a high level of scavenging by small to moderate sized predators including crustaceans, grouper, small sharks..etc. which (IMO) would likely spread any remains radially away from the trap opening.


Thanks, Blonde, for clearing that up.

but Kermit is trying to tell us something here:

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #524 on: November 15, 2008, 08:26:35 PM »
Which dive - would you know?
//scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.520
I don't understand any of this but it was Tim Trahan, an American, who went down with the Aruban divers and came back up and told Tim Miller there was nothing.

Now I'm late.  Bye



I think that the "thumbs down" video that was shown on Dateline
was made specifically for public viewing, after the fact.
I betcha it was a different thumb reaction in the original.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #92 on: November 17, 2008, 10:22:57 AM »

there must have been other dives ?

Jossy sends out a search crew that know where the crab trap is located and his crew made the first dive ?
and planted the one shoe.. ?

Get the real evidence and plant some new evidence..


Questions, if anyone would answer:
(1) Are we to entertain the possibility of Jossy (or Arubans) to have dove the waters and planted a crab trap, which would later be found by the Persistence crew? Surely, nothing would surprise me at this juncture of the game...
(2) Has it been discovered who steered attention away from the ocean search and to the the pond area, as alluded to in the past few days cryptic message clues?
(3) Would ocean evidence cancel all theories as to Caps recent post of Matty appts, dismemberment, hiding of body in pieces around the island?
(4) Has Simian, Shango been 100% conclusively identified? If so, please see to it that their testicles are clamped in a vice and stuck with pins and needles for the thousands of hours spent to decipher and decode their riddles?

Comments, Observations by me:
(1) Jossy has been labeled "hero" to alot of posters. I still say (and borrowed from an old saying) that a dog does not shit where they eat. Meaning that as much as Jossy may dislike Sloot family and, in turn, help NH, SM, and collective causes, I am of the opinion that he realizes where his bread is buttered. His loyalty, in the end, is with Aruba, and its residents. He may be playing both sides of the fence. I hope everyone keeps this in the back of their minds.
(2) Caps, Kermit seem to be trusted as knowing an awful lot in this case. It matters none to me as long as it leads somewhere down the path of truth. I only hope (and assume) that they are as reliable as they are counted on to be by other posters.
(3) Everyone with coded information, in my opinion, should feel some obligation that they may know parts of the conspiracy to cover a crime and, even in secrecy, reveal the information to non-corrupt authority so as to lay this crime, its participants, its cover-up facilitators, etc.. to rest once and for all.



 


Why not throw Peter de Vries name in with all this...just for good Measure!!!
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Magnolia
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« Reply #93 on: November 17, 2008, 10:24:45 AM »

Kermit - I see you lurking.  Here's a treat if you'll help us with the initials.



one is a polis officer.
one is a monkey's uncle.
one is a monkey.

Now can I eat the treat!
ribbit




The monkey  was AG her uncle I think was a Croes


Hi Blonde....I have been thinking AG as well.  All I recall of the Croes relationship was that it was distant...I think...???

Any idea how Cyde Burke fits in...Is it tied to many thinkng he was Simian?  TIA



Aruba Girl is a cousin to Steve Croes if that helps.


Magnolia...please don't take this wrong...LOL....but do you know this for sure?

Some have been round and round on whom both of them are related to that is all!

I read it in Shango yesterday....or I would not have remembered.
Post by Fingirl, I think.  PS: I don't take offence at much.
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Pita
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« Reply #94 on: November 17, 2008, 10:27:21 AM »

I don't know if this is the reason Tim left the boat, but in January, shortly after the Persistence search, Dave Holloway asked Tim Miller to head to Nicaragua to arrange for a meeting in search of Natalee.  Dave received phone and email messages indicating drug runners were paid to take Natalee's body and dump it at sea.  They claimed to have taken her remains to Nicaragua and buried them on a strip off the Atlantic coast.   More here.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2008, 10:31:50 AM »

Kermit - I see you lurking.  Here's a treat if you'll help us with the initials.



one is a polis officer.
one is a monkey's uncle.
one is a monkey.

Now can I eat the treat!
ribbit




The monkey  was AG her uncle I think was a Croes


Hi Blonde....I have been thinking AG as well.  All I recall of the Croes relationship was that it was distant...I think...???

Any idea how Cyde Burke fits in...Is it tied to many thinkng he was Simian?  TIA



Aruba Girl is a cousin to Steve Croes if that helps.


Magnolia...please don't take this wrong...LOL....but do you know this for sure?

Some have been round and round on whom both of them are related to that is all!

I read it in Shango yesterday....or I would not have remembered.
Post by Fingirl, I think.  PS: I don't take offence at much.


Thanks...I don't either...lol....I believe then it came from Finbar's research.
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vms
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« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2008, 10:32:35 AM »

there must have been other dives ?

Jossy sends out a search crew that know where the crab trap is located and his crew made the first dive ?
and planted the one shoe.. ?

Get the real evidence and plant some new evidence..


Questions, if anyone would answer:
(1) Are we to entertain the possibility of Jossy (or Arubans) to have dove the waters and planted a crab trap, which would later be found by the Persistence crew? Surely, nothing would surprise me at this juncture of the game...
(2) Has it been discovered who steered attention away from the ocean search and to the the pond area, as alluded to in the past few days cryptic message clues?
(3) Would ocean evidence cancel all theories as to Caps recent post of Matty appts, dismemberment, hiding of body in pieces around the island?
(4) Has Simian, Shango been 100% conclusively identified? If so, please see to it that their testicles are clamped in a vice and stuck with pins and needles for the thousands of hours spent to decipher and decode their riddles?

Comments, Observations by me:
(1) Jossy has been labeled "hero" to alot of posters. I still say (and borrowed from an old saying) that a dog does not shit where they eat. Meaning that as much as Jossy may dislike Sloot family and, in turn, help NH, SM, and collective causes, I am of the opinion that he realizes where his bread is buttered. His loyalty, in the end, is with Aruba, and its residents. He may be playing both sides of the fence. I hope everyone keeps this in the back of their minds.
(2) Caps, Kermit seem to be trusted as knowing an awful lot in this case. It matters none to me as long as it leads somewhere down the path of truth. I only hope (and assume) that they are as reliable as they are counted on to be by other posters.
(3) Everyone with coded information, in my opinion, should feel some obligation that they may know parts of the conspiracy to cover a crime and, even in secrecy, reveal the information to non-corrupt authority so as to lay this crime, its participants, its cover-up facilitators, etc.. to rest once and for all.


Don't count me in the bolded and red. I believe nothing without proof and backup. Color me stubborn.
All great points to ponder, Buckeye.
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Pita
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« Reply #97 on: November 17, 2008, 10:32:47 AM »

Video of the dive here....pictures of many of the divers, including Tim Trahan.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302581#23302581
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vms
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« Reply #98 on: November 17, 2008, 10:34:00 AM »

Sorry, Buckshot!
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« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2008, 10:34:33 AM »

Just out of curiosity, why does everyone believe Kermit is in the know?  I'm not saying he/she is not in the "know" but anyone can sound like it.
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