Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19/08 to 11/21/08

[BUCKSHOT]

PVS Car with chunks missing

Poor guy...
Someone vandalized his vehicle.
No wonder he was running to his car, so no one could vandalize it again..
 

[Helen Back]

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/11/20/someone-is-lying-take-your-pick-you-who-want-to-believe/

November 20th, 2008 9:15 AM Eastern
SOMEONE IS LYING TO YOU - take your pick !
by Greta Van Susteren
Someone is a big fat liar — either I am the big fat liar or the Prosecutor in the Aruban Prosecutor’s office.  You take your pick!  Am I lying to you? or is the prosecutor in this release? See below…a press release from the Aruban prosecutor’s office….I think this press release below is  pre emptive (before we show you what we have Monday ) and an effort to cover one’s *********.


This Aruban press release confuses (deliberately?) 3 matters.  One is a Dutch journalist and his show, another is a recent AP report about a witness and then the third is OUR investigation which I have offered to show the prosecutor but there is no interest.

It is a BIG FAT LIE to write in this press release below: “….The investigation led by this Office has been ongoing and, as has been done all the time, this Office and the Police investigate every new lead in this case…” They have NOT investigated every new lead — in fact they REFUSE to investigate.  What are they afraid of? solving this?  is this about tourism on Aruba? or what?


If you watch ON THE RECORD at 10pm, you know that in the last two nights, as well as here on GretaWire, I have told you that we have NEW information.  It is not simply a witness.  I don’t know if our new information is the answer to this mystery or a wild goose chase — and I have repeatedly said that.  I do know that NO DECENT PROSECUTOR who has ANY INTEREST in solving the case would ignore what we have and I have OFFERED to show the Aruba prosecutor first.  He has subpoena power to check out leads.  This is a missing woman and this is not a matter to simply ignore.  Every effort should be made to solve this…and in this instance, we are serving up information to the prosecutor that he has zero interest in looking at.


I talked to the prosecutor TWO WEEKS ago (not July if the press release below is referring to me.) I offered to meet him 1/2 way…he said he does not have time during the week…I offered him MY weekend, ..he said he does not work weekends…and  he has a vacation coming up.  In my phone call to him two weeks ago I  offered to show him what we have NO STRINGS attached…I said I was NOT asking for anything in exchange…not even an interview from him. Go figure!

But here is your question: who is lying? take your pick…the prosecution in Aruba who says it is following up every lead? and this is an ongoing investigation? or am I lying when I say we offered new information to the prosecutor to follow up on and he simply refuses.  And yes, we will show you what we have on Monday and you can decide: should this be investigated?

Good morning monkeys,

OMG, is Mos calling Great's OTR a tabloid show?   Hahahaha

Mos must be feeling a little heat.  What a weenie.

 

[klaasend]

@Klaasend

Since last week I can't connect to 'Blogs for Natalee' anymore.
All efforts to show me the BFNsite so I can login, have failed.
On my screen appears the following message: This account has been suspended.
Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible.

The website connected to this message is: http://nymph.bluetrident.net/suspended.page/

Can you help me to understand what's going on and how to solve this problem ?

J45 - BFN is down for everyone, not just you.  I'm not sure what the problem is but maybe someone else here in contact with Debbie can explain.  Normally Debbie contacts Ian and the problem is resolved quickly, this time it's taking longer than usual.

[klaasend]

Jonathan45, I want to add that I was registered at BFN just to read for a long time...using another screen name.   I was not able to log on to the backup site.  Thinking I may have to reregister, or I am just not remembering my password.  Not sure.

2NJ - I'm having the same problem with the backup site.  I used to be able to read/post at the backup site and not any more.  I did re-register but haven't been re-approved as yet.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Jonathan45, I want to add that I was registered at BFN just to read for a long time...using another screen name.   I was not able to log on to the backup site.  Thinking I may have to reregister, or I am just not remembering my password.  Not sure.

2NJ - I'm having the same problem with the backup site.  I used to be able to read/post at the backup site and not any more.  I did re-register but haven't been re-approved as yet.

I didn't see my username listed as a member, and never used the backup before, so that's how I came to the conclusion that maybe I had to register.   I had been logged in forever on the main site, so at this point, any password I might have used initially, failed on the backup.  It's not a problem for me, because I seldom read there...

[BUCKSHOT]

A-1 - great infromation about the bird on the wire.  You need to spend more time with us over in Shango.


Something dawned on me this afternoon and I couldn't do anything about it until tonight.  Kyle told us that from the beach on January 11th and 12th, he watch the Coast Guard ships at the trap site.  Is this why the Coast Guard ships were there?  I wonder if the trap was connected to the Caso Domino?


38     Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -    on: March 19, 2008, 03:21:31 PM

After the Jan 7th dive, I was scheduled to take a short break on land, staying at the Holiday Inn between Jan 9th and returning to the Persistence on Jan 14th.  I had been working steadily since Dec 15th and needed a break.  It was a coincidence I was around to be walking the beach to observe what I saw with the vessel at or near the site on the 11th and 12th of Jan.  I don't know for certain if there is anything to it.  When asked if they were diving the site, they replied: "we don't have dive capabilities".


9     Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru    on: November 18, 2008, 09:43:06 AM

I am catching up with all the post....in this section....


look at my findings carefully, [on the cage "it is Escudero Cage."] Colombia drug trafficer.

I will say again...there was 2 cases mixed in to one. --->. to confuse the issue.


cage (400lbs) to havy for 2 people "AND" to big for just a scull. "AND" area of he cage in the water too deep "AND" need a crane to lift it and to drop it. Do not compute with the available time-line to deal with a post mortum body.

Definitely too late now, and maybe a very stupid question, but...

Since everyone suspected corruption at multiple levels prior to the ocean search,
Why wouldn't they have taken the necessary steps to ensure an honest search, one free of tampering.

I may be wrong, but I thought the search team had met with new players in Aruba, and felt assured that they now had good intentions in really assisting them for answers, despite past differences.

I remember feeling that the searchers and family were be set up to be duped, yet again.
Just thought that the searchers and family also felt that way and would not allow it to happen.

[BUCKSHOT]

The VDS sewer...

I remember reading and discussing the age of the VDS compound.  IIRC, one building was original when they bought the place and the others were added as the family grew.

Isn't it possible that the new and old parts have different sewer systems?  That has happened in the past, not unheard of if you live in an older area.

I remember something about Tim Miller looking into a sewer or holding tank that belonged to a VDS neighbor, just to 'clear' that piece of property.  I remember a large opening, like one would find as part of a holding tank.

The VDS did not let anyone check the sewage system on their property at the time.  

===

Also, with Joran's many stories, one was that he threw his shoe into some kind of drain pipe.  Could Joran have put Natalee in some kind of drain?  A very dirty place, not the pond?  Or, if dismembered, perhaps pieces?  Maybe a place he crawled through?  

The Chicago videos--someone a long time ago posted frames from the original video, and another of the same drain, a year or so later.  The drain opening was changed in some way.  

Could she have been wrapped in plastic and planted well inside that drain?  I'm thinking that would explain the sporter being wet up to his neck.

If the VDS were having cement work done around their pool around that time, is it possible that a large plastic sheet was used to cover any new concrete that was poured?  In my area they do that sometimes due to the weather.

I think SM had a field trip at one time, anyone here part of that crew?  Can you add something about the drain?  I keep thinking there was a pair of shoes there to.  

Lots of lonely shoes in Aruba.  

 

An old unanswered topic...THE CONCRETE WORK around the pool.
Goes with two others to me:
(1) The rock scene (Was it used as a chopping board or murder scene)
(2) Furniture truck (Did it remove evidence replace tainted furniture evidence)

[Blonde]

A-1 - great infromation about the bird on the wire.  You need to spend more time with us over in Shango.


Something dawned on me this afternoon and I couldn't do anything about it until tonight.  Kyle told us that from the beach on January 11th and 12th, he watch the Coast Guard ships at the trap site.  Is this why the Coast Guard ships were there?  I wonder if the trap was connected to the Caso Domino?


38     Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -    on: March 19, 2008, 03:21:31 PM

After the Jan 7th dive, I was scheduled to take a short break on land, staying at the Holiday Inn between Jan 9th and returning to the Persistence on Jan 14th.  I had been working steadily since Dec 15th and needed a break.  It was a coincidence I was around to be walking the beach to observe what I saw with the vessel at or near the site on the 11th and 12th of Jan.  I don't know for certain if there is anything to it.  When asked if they were diving the site, they replied: "we don't have dive capabilities".


9     Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru    on: November 18, 2008, 09:43:06 AM

I am catching up with all the post....in this section....


look at my findings carefully, [on the cage "it is Escudero Cage."] Colombia drug trafficer.

I will say again...there was 2 cases mixed in to one. --->. to confuse the issue.


cage (400lbs) to havy for 2 people "AND" to big for just a scull. "AND" area of he cage in the water too deep "AND" need a crane to lift it and to drop it. Do not compute with the available time-line to deal with a post mortum body.

Definitely too late now, and maybe a very stupid question, but...

Since everyone suspected corruption at multiple levels prior to the ocean search,
Why wouldn't they have taken the necessary steps to ensure an honest search, one free of tampering.

I may be wrong, but I thought the search team had met with new players in Aruba, and felt assured that they now had good intentions in really assisting them for answers, despite past differences.

I remember feeling that the searchers and family were be set up to be duped, yet again.
Just thought that the searchers and family also felt that way and would not allow it to happen.

Honestly it's hard to answer that question without mixing facts with speculation. If you want my opinion for whatever it's worth, here it is.

From the beginning, the case was made very public and the cover-up started almost immediately, presumably to protect the tourism interests of the Island, if nothing else. The Persistence search was something of a turning point in the case in the way it was being handled. Most people involved in the investigation from the beginning were replaced with others who are being heavily scrutinized to avoid further problems.
If this case were being handled properly we should hear nothing until there were arrests. All evidence and the investigation should be kept completely quiet until all the pieces are in place to make a proper arrest and charge all of the people involved. I have good reason to believe this case is being handled better than before the Persistence search.

- The investigative team is extensive and qualified from my understanding, though I am not in contact with them.
- The Polis has spent something on the order of half their annual budget already just working on the Holloway case.
- I know at least 40 investigators were brought in from Holland in regards to the investigation, though Caps quotes 52. 52 or 40, I don't know but it's a lot of man power for a case recently reopened from a cold-case IMO.
- Samples collected from the trap were sent to the FBI for analysis and they won't comment on the case at all.
- The Monserat pond was searched after it was pumped dry. No one is commenting on the pond search.

I trust most of the people now leading the investigation. That's difficult to say across the boards, but I do trust most. If the investigation is active and moving forward, I would expect silence and results over time. How much time? I wouldn't expect to hear anything by at least September but this is only a guess. The fact that there is silence is either incouraging or discouraging depending on how you look at it. If you're an optimist, silence means the investigation is proceeding carefully and quietly which is good. If you're a pessimist, the silence means nothing is happening and the waiting will highly frustrate you.

Personally, I think it's a coin flip but am optimistic that at least the investigation into the investigation will be handled fully.
from Kyle

IMO they trusted ALE and did not know any better

[bleachedblack]

@Klaasend

Since last week I can't connect to 'Blogs for Natalee' anymore.
All efforts to show me the BFNsite so I can login, have failed.
On my screen appears the following message: This account has been suspended.
Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible.

The website connected to this message is: http://nymph.bluetrident.net/suspended.page/

Can you help me to understand what's going on and how to solve this problem ?

This was posted by Debbie 11-20 at 11:58 am (EST) at BFN backup site.

I wish I knew what to tell eveyone about BFN... to be honest I do not know what has happened. I have tried to contact Ian in every way possible and I still have not heard from him.

I do not plan on letting us not have a home, so me an a few others are working on plan B. I am not giving up on BFN yet but I am not going to ever give up on y'all.

I will keep y'all informed as best I can, it is just so upsetting to me that we do not have BFN back yet!

[BUCKSHOT]

Posted by: icey | Aug 12, 2005 2:58:33 PM[/quote]

In retrospect, considering all the lost phones, "originated on Aruba from a rental cell phone for which there is no documented "owner"."  What does that look like today?  

I know most folks disregard the phone calls, and the rumors come up now and again, but it is an interesting idea considering all the phones lost and found on that island.
[/quote]

Yes. And pair that with the known cell phone liason on the island...Charles Croes.
Lost phones + Charles Croes = Bad news for the truth.

[johan555]

@Klaasend

Since last week I can't connect to 'Blogs for Natalee' anymore.
All efforts to show me the BFNsite so I can login, have failed.
On my screen appears the following message: This account has been suspended.
Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible.

The website connected to this message is: http://nymph.bluetrident.net/suspended.page/

Can you help me to understand what's going on and how to solve this problem ?

This was posted by Debbie 11-20 at 11:58 am (EST) at BFN backup site.

I wish I knew what to tell eveyone about BFN... to be honest I do not know what has happened. I have tried to contact Ian in every way possible and I still have not heard from him.

I do not plan on letting us not have a home, so me an a few others are working on plan B. I am not giving up on BFN yet but I am not going to ever give up on y'all.

I will keep y'all informed as best I can, it is just so upsetting to me that we do not have BFN back yet!

i think they hacked bfn
its on another server now

[bleachedblack]

@Klaasend

Since last week I can't connect to 'Blogs for Natalee' anymore.
All efforts to show me the BFNsite so I can login, have failed.
On my screen appears the following message: This account has been suspended.
Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible.

The website connected to this message is: http://nymph.bluetrident.net/suspended.page/

Can you help me to understand what's going on and how to solve this problem ?

This was posted by Debbie 11-20 at 11:58 am (EST) at BFN backup site.

I wish I knew what to tell eveyone about BFN... to be honest I do not know what has happened. I have tried to contact Ian in every way possible and I still have not heard from him.

I do not plan on letting us not have a home, so me an a few others are working on plan B. I am not giving up on BFN yet but I am not going to ever give up on y'all.

I will keep y'all informed as best I can, it is just so upsetting to me that we do not have BFN back yet!

I could be wrong about EST, it might have been posted GMT.

[bleachedblack]

@Klaasend

Since last week I can't connect to 'Blogs for Natalee' anymore.
All efforts to show me the BFNsite so I can login, have failed.
On my screen appears the following message: This account has been suspended.
Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible.

The website connected to this message is: http://nymph.bluetrident.net/suspended.page/

Can you help me to understand what's going on and how to solve this problem ?

This was posted by Debbie 11-20 at 11:58 am (EST) at BFN backup site.

I wish I knew what to tell eveyone about BFN... to be honest I do not know what has happened. I have tried to contact Ian in every way possible and I still have not heard from him.

I do not plan on letting us not have a home, so me an a few others are working on plan B. I am not giving up on BFN yet but I am not going to ever give up on y'all.

I will keep y'all informed as best I can, it is just so upsetting to me that we do not have BFN back yet!

i think they hacked bfn
its on another server now

As posted earlier the backup is:http://bfnbackup.16.forumer.com/index.php?sid=c4e1e893702cf49ca3a9beb98fd17a9c

I think that might be Rammstein's site that he is letting BFN use as backup.

[Tamikosmom]

New Witness In Natalee Holloway Case
Woman Tells Dutch Police Joran van der Sloot Confessed To Her
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico, Nov. 18, 2008
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/18/national/main4615155.shtml


Natalee Holloway's Mom: Aruba Investigators 'Not Following Up on Any Leads' Wednesday, November 19, 2008http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html


DAVE HOLLOWAY/JOSSEY MANSUR
Video Clip
November 19, 2008
A Father’s Frustration
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3209661&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html


Natalee Holloway's Dad: Aruba Investigators Ignored Another Potential Witness Thursday, November 20, 2008
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455069,00.html

[Poochy]

Boards are hoppin! Took me all morning to read so sorry if this is a reply to SS's post from 10 pages back.

          Quote from: SS on November 19, 2008, 07:29:35 AM
          11:37 am simian:
          Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

          Caps - is the Masonic Cemetery one of the locations where her reamins were hidden?

In Joran's PV below, does 'it' refer to her head, and "for the rest" refer to her body???

Joran's June 13, 2005 PV:
To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:

“I think that it was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut, for the rest I would not know either.” 

 

[MumInOhio]

The dismemberment theory just doesn't work for me.

1.15-1.30 - leave C&Cs - Kock says they made a stop.

2.45 - Gardener sees Deepak, Joran and another at the Racquet Club.

4.05 - Witness sees Joran at the pond

We could also throw in the jogger at 3.00AM and possibly AG's cousin seeing them going towards Montanja at 2AM.

JMO but there is not time for what Caps has suggested. If you assume the rocks, according to Caps, Joran was not with the Kalpoes at the Racquet Club on their way to the Lighthouse area.

[always 1]

SS, re the shoe that was placed near the cell tower.  Crossbow did a lot of searching on that site and says there is an old gold mine there.  He though perhaps the shoe was placed there to show where the body was. 

[BUCKSHOT]

I know exactly what happened. I just can't tell anyone.
It is a secret and might compromise things.

But, if you want a clue...
Fly to the moon. There you will find a little blue box, with a locked box inside.
Next, scuba dive to the bottom of the Indian Ocean. There you will find a key to the box.
Finally, hike to the top of Mount Everest. Open the box and read what happened.

Easy as one, two, three.
Hang in there - You might be on the right track, but then again, you might not.
Don't get discouraged, monkeys...

It will all soon become crystal clear. Just ten more thousand hours of work.

Ribbit. Gotta run.

 

mocking me eh?

It ain't easy being green.

Kermit,

Maybe you do have reasons (that I am unaware of) for being so aloof...

If you are giving clues, which lead to persons involved in corruption...

Why not save other people's time and give up the names that the clues will, in the end, lead to anyways...

Buckshot

[mojo]

Jonathan45, I want to add that I was registered at BFN just to read for a long time...using another screen name.   I was not able to log on to the backup site.  Thinking I may have to reregister, or I am just not remembering my password.  Not sure.

2NJ - I'm having the same problem with the backup site.  I used to be able to read/post at the backup site and not any more.  I did re-register but haven't been re-approved as yet.

ditto

[sharon]

Honestly it's hard to answer that question without mixing facts with speculation. If you want my opinion for whatever it's worth, here it is.

From the beginning, the case was made very public and the cover-up started almost immediately, presumably to protect the tourism interests of the Island, if nothing else. The Persistence search was something of a turning point in the case in the way it was being handled. Most people involved in the investigation from the beginning were replaced with others who are being heavily scrutinized to avoid further problems.
If this case were being handled properly we should hear nothing until there were arrests. All evidence and the investigation should be kept completely quiet until all the pieces are in place to make a proper arrest and charge all of the people involved. I have good reason to believe this case is being handled better than before the Persistence search.

- The investigative team is extensive and qualified from my understanding, though I am not in contact with them.
- The Polis has spent something on the order of half their annual budget already just working on the Holloway case.
- I know at least 40 investigators were brought in from Holland in regards to the investigation, though Caps quotes 52. 52 or 40, I don't know but it's a lot of man power for a case recently reopened from a cold-case IMO.
- Samples collected from the trap were sent to the FBI for analysis and they won't comment on the case at all.
- The Monserat pond was searched after it was pumped dry. No one is commenting on the pond search.

I trust most of the people now leading the investigation. That's difficult to say across the boards, but I do trust most. If the investigation is active and moving forward, I would expect silence and results over time. How much time? I wouldn't expect to hear anything by at least September but this is only a guess. The fact that there is silence is either incouraging or discouraging depending on how you look at it. If you're an optimist, silence means the investigation is proceeding carefully and quietly which is good. If you're a pessimist, the silence means nothing is happening and the waiting will highly frustrate you.

Personally, I think it's a coin flip but am optimistic that at least the investigation into the investigation will be handled fully.
from Kyle

IMO they trusted ALE and did not know any better

Why do you think that was?

I'm pretty sure that Dave Holloway no longer 'trusted' ALE at that time. Do you think Dave kept that to himself? Same with Beth? Same with Tim Miller?

Do you think that no one 'in the know' shared the details of the case with the Persistence team???

I wonder why they wouldn't ??

.