here ya' go, Johan -
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," November 18, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: And tonight, Natalee Holloway, the American who vanished in Aruba in 2005. Her mysterious disappearance is back in the headlines. Now, the Associated Press is reporting that a new witness has come forward. Who is the witness? And where is Joran van der Sloot tonight
Joining us by phone from Aruba is Jossy Mansur, publishing -- publisher and managing editor of Diario newspaper. Good evening, Jossy. Jossy, the AP is reporting -- and I must say that it conflicts with the new information that we've been gathering in the last six months, but I mean -- in some ways. But what is the AP reporting about a new witness?
JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, DIARIO: Well, they're referring to is this Salaf (ph) lady that was interviewed by [Paul] De Vries in the second program that he showed on TV. What they're referring to is that she was a friend of Joran, that two, or two-and-a-half years ago, she was with him, she went on the beach with him, that he asked her, What do you think if you suffered the same disappearance of Natalee Holloway? I think everyone is referring to this as new evidence. It really isn't. It was shown on the program of De Vries.
VAN SUSTEREN: When did she come forward to talk to the authorities?
MANSUR: Well, as far as I know, if -- that she was interviewed by him -- I don't know whether she came to the authorities before. Apparently, the prosecution in Aruba is saying that, Why did she wait so long to come forward?
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, that's not all the prosecution is saying tonight, which leads me to the question (INAUDIBLE) prosecution. Are they doing anything to investigate this case, as far as you can see?
MANSUR: As far as we can see in Aruba, absolutely nothing. All they're saying is, and they're sticking to, is that by the end of the year, they will make a decision, a final decision whether to take the man to court or close the case forever.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, what -- they've issued a statement tonight, Hans Mos, the prosecutor, and it says, in part, that they're still trying to investigate every last lead, which, frankly, is a lie. And I'll talk about that in a second. But Jossy, is there any enthusiasm to investigate this case? I know the prosecutor doesn't -- I don't think the prosecutor's doing anything, but what about people on the island? Do they want this case buried or they want this solved?
MANSUR: No, they're indifferent to this case now because so much has gone on in three-and-a-half years and the people are busy with other things, other situations here. So the people of Aruba are not that interested anymore in the case.
VAN SUSTEREN: Where is Joran van der Sloot?
MANSUR: Well, we presume he was last seen in Thailand. After that presentation of the show of De Vries, he disappeared. No one knows where he is.
VAN SUSTEREN: How about Deepak and Satish Kalpoe?
MANSUR: You know, they have played their part extremely well by being so quiet and so silent. I mean, they don't give out any kind of statement, no interviews, nada.
VAN SUSTEREN: What about Paulus, van der Sloot, the father of Joran van der Sloot?
MANSUR: Well, he's practicing law in Aruba. He's representing some people that have confidence in him and he's -- we normally see him in court.
VAN SUSTEREN: Carlos and Charlie's still there, or is that under new management, change names?
MANSUR: Yes, it has a new management now, but it's still there.
VAN SUSTEREN: What do most people think happened to Natalee?
MANSUR: Most of us believe that what Joran said on the first program of De Vries is correct, that she died in his arms but not from seizure -- we don't know how she died -- that [he] called a friend and the friend dumped her in the ocean. That's what most people believe.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any suggestion that there was a boat there that night or any ability to dump her into the ocean?
MANSUR: Well, probably because there were some boats nearby, and especially the boat (INAUDIBLE) the tour (ph) ship, which is a tourist ship. There must have been other boats in the vicinity, as Joran would not have invented this with De Vries.
VAN SUSTEREN: In terms of boats, just so that we have some sort of idea of the geography, for people who need to be reminded, how far, for instance, is Aruba from Venezuela?
MANSUR: Fifteen nautical miles is the nearest point within Aruba and Venezuela.
VAN SUSTEREN: And do you know -- and in terms of boats that night, do you know if any thorough investigation, one that you would have confidence in? Has that been done?
MANSUR: No, it hasn't been done because that night, somebody in the police force told the people handling the radar that controls the boats in the vicinity on the coast of Aruba -- told them to put it off.
VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, thank you.
MANSUR: Sure.
VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us by phone is Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway. Good evening, Beth.
BETH HOLLOWAY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Yes. Hi, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Beth, you know, people haven't heard from you in a long time. People -- but many of our viewers, you know, are anxious to get the answers, anxious for you to get the answers. And the question I get so many times is how are you doing?
HOLLOWAY: Well, I'm doing good. I'm trying to stay busy. And you know, when things like this come up, it's just -- it's -- it is hard. It's very difficult to balance everything and try to -- you know, you try feel your way through what's real and what's not real and -- but I mean, you just try to do it the best you can.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I suppose I should tell the viewers that -- you know, they know now, at least if they read GretaWire, that we've been working on this case and working rather aggressively since -- something we started in June, and I've kept you aware of that and we're going to air it on Monday. But just sort of focusing on the report tonight from the Associated Press, which is different from the information that we've been working on, do you get a ton of phone calls the minute these things hit the wires?
HOLLOWAY: I do. I do. Sometimes it catches me off guard. Sometimes I'm not even aware of certain things that are, you know, surfacing in the news because, obviously, we're not kept very well informed from the prosecuting attorney. So it's -- you know, like I said, it's just hard to discriminate between what's real and what's not real.
VAN SUSTEREN: You bring up the prosecutor. The new prosecutor is Hans Mos, or he's been new for about three years. Has he ever called you, originated a phone call to you?
HOLLOWAY: No, never. No and I -- he would not. And you know, Greta, it would never be too late. I would love to get a call from him. I mean, I feel as if sometimes, we have this self-imposed timeline on justice. But you know, there's not a timeline. It would never be too late for justice for Natalee's case. And I would very much, you know, appreciate any kind of calls received from him.
VAN SUSTEREN: Karin Janssen was the original prosecutor and Hans Mos took over. When she left Aruba, did she call you and sort of tie up lose ends, or did she just sort of vanish from your radar screen?
HOLLOWAY: No, just absolutely vanished. I had no idea she was even leaving so quickly as she did. So you know, that's always been an issue, just no communication from the prosecuting attorney's office. And you know, it just leaves you wondering, you know, where are you? And you hear all this information coming them, saying that they're following up on every lead. Well, you know, that's just simply not true. They're not following up on any leads.
VAN SUSTEREN: Has there -- now, we said the two prosecutors. Have any of the police officers, anybody from Aruba at all contacted you and said we're doing anything on the case at all? Is there any reason for you to believe it's being investigated?
HOLLOWAY: No, absolutely none. No. Not at all. Not to any degree.
Photo Essay: The Natalee Holloway Case
VAN SUSTEREN: What -- I mean, how hard is this still? I mean, it's been -- you know, she disappeared in May, and I know that you have a broken heart, every parent I ever talked to. But what's it like day-to-day?
HOLLOWAY: Well, day-to-day -- if you try to -- like I said, you try to have a healthy balance of, you know, still trying to maintain some sense of normalcy in my life as far as -- still doing -- I do a lot of engagements. I was just in North Carolina last week for a women's leadership conference and -- you know, and still trying to get back into teaching and -- but it's hard when then -- when it is coming out to where, you know, we see the latest with Joran, when he's -- you know, now coming out in Bangkok and engaging in these activities and -- you know, and it -- and it comes out of nowhere and blindsides you and just totally sends you back, you know, to the very beginning. (INAUDIBLE) still haven't made any traction in -- in -- you know, the investigation of Joran.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, we -- you know, I told you that we pledged to try to get the information we could. You know because we've kept you abreast that we have a new lead. We have new information. It's either a wild goose chase or it is the answer. But we'll be doing all that, hopefully, on Monday. But Beth, thank you, and I know you'll be watching Monday.
HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.
VAN SUSTEREN: Beth, thank you.
HOLLOWAY: Thanks, Greta. Bye.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, now, there is some good news. The legal panel is back. Joining us live are criminal defense attorneys Michael Cardoza, Ted Williams and Bernie Grim. Where have you guys been?
(CROSSTALK)
BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We've been campaigning.
(CROSSTALK)
TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We're happy to be back.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, let's start with Hans Mos, who's the new prosecutor. And I'm hard on -- you know, hard on him tonight. I've called him anything from stupid, liar, anything. But let me tell you, he's -- the AP has this new story that they have a witness that's come forward. That's not -- that's not our new investigation. But in the course of his statement, Hans Mos says that they are still trying to investigate every lead.
Now let me tell you something. The new information we have, we have on videotape, in part, I have offered it to Hans Mos. I've offered -- he said he couldn't come to Washington to see it, so I said, I'll meet you halfway in Miami because I think it's something important. He said, I can't do that. I can't take off during the week. I said, I'll give you my weekend. I'll go down and meet you halfway weekend just so that you can use your subpoena power and try to corroborate it. And he says that he doesn't work weekends and that he's got a vacation coming up.
Your thought. This is a guy "following every lead."
GRIMM: Yes. I guess if I didn't work weekends, my family would be in the homeless shelter. But that's abysmal. I mean, you -- I mean, you listen to Beth Holloway. You exhaust and you check out every conceivable lead, no matter how idiotic because they've checked out some idiotic ones in this case, so -- it's just depressing. And Jossy, who, you know, you can take or leave, he used an interesting word. He said "indifference," and I think that's where things are now with people, so...
WILLIAMS: But you're telling me that you have offered to provide a prosecutor, who tells the world that this is an open case that he's investigating, information and he won't...
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: They're still investigating leads, is what they say. And I offered to use my own weekend to meet him halfway to show him what we have. It's either -- this either is the answer or a wild goose chase, but he should at least investigate it.
WILLIAMS: He should have at least -- look, even if he sent one of his underlings down to talk to you -- this is utterly ridiculous. It tells us just one thing. They don't give a damn about what happened in May of 2005 on that island, and they're not actively investigating...
VAN SUSTEREN: I think -- I think...
WILLIAMS: ... And (INAUDIBLE) by virtue of what you told us tonight proved that.
VAN SUSTEREN: I think it's worse than that they're indifferent. I think that they're actually trying to cover it up. Michael, you're a former prosecutor. If someone came to you and said, I have information, would you say, I don't work weekends, I'm on vacation, I don't have time?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Greta, I got to tell you, all you prosecutors out there listening to the show, quit throwing things at your television right now. Every one of them that's a good prosecutor would, after you hung up the phone, be on a plane to see you in D.C. to see what you had. That's what a real prosecutor would do.
It's time that they take Joran, a kid with no moral compass at all, and bring him to trial. What do they expect, evidence to fall out of the sky? They've got enough now to bring him to trial at least for disposing of a body. And put him in jail for something. At least it'd bring conclusion to this case. Just don't be apathetic about it. This is appalling.
VAN SUSTEREN: Apathetic -- it's even hard to say apathetic because -- and I will confess they I really want him to see the evidence because he has subpoena power, and he could corroborate, which is so important. But he just -- he -- to quote Ted, he doesn't give a damn. I offered to use my weekend to meet him halfway and to show him what we have, but no interest.
CARDOZA: That's shocking.
VAN SUSTEREN: Anyway, panel -- I know. I don't know any American prosecutor -- I've never met an American prosecutor who wouldn't jump at that, but anyway...
WILLIAMS: He would or he'd be fired.
CARDOZA: I'd be on a plane in 10 seconds.
VAN SUSTEREN: I know. We need to take a break. Panel, stand by.
Here we are more than three years since Natalee's disappearance in Aruba. Here's tonight's live vote. You'll enjoy this one. Go to Gretawire and answer this question. Do you think Aruba has done everything it can to investigate this case? Yes or no? We're going to read your results at the end of the hour.
And coming up: Hold onto your seat for this one. Wait until you hear what Rush Limbaugh is saying about Senator Hillary Clinton. We have the tape, so you will hear it.
And then President-elect Barack Obama is about to make a big announcement. This announcement will make history. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: The Natalee Holloway investigation is making headlines tonight. We have new information that we will show you on Monday night. But in the meantime, the Associated Press has a different story. The Associate Press is reporting that a new witness has come forward. This woman reportedly spoke to Joran van der Sloot about Natalee's disappearance in 2006, but then spoke with police only 14 days ago in the Netherlands. Could this woman be trouble for Van Der Sloot? Our legal panel is back.
Ted, I don't know. I'm sort of dismissive of this whole thought, anyone comes forward that late, and apparently, it's not that good of information, at least for the AP report.
WILLIAMS: Well, Greta, as we know, throughout the history of this so- called investigation, there have been witnesses upon top of witnesses who have come forward. This woman, if she had information in 2006, it's reasonable to believe that she would have come forward now, not 14 days -- I don't believe it. I don't think it's going to be of any value to the case.
VAN SUSTEREN: It's also the -- it's also evidence, Bernie, that you can't -- I mean, supposedly, she said that he made some statement about leaving her on the beach or something. It's nothing that can be corroborated, which again goes back to my frustration with -- with Hans Mos.
CARDOZA: Yes, it can.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I mean, no, but the thing is, Michael, is the information that we have that we want to show Hans Mos that he has no interest in because he doesn't work weekends...
CARDOZA: Right.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... And he won't meet me halfway during the week...
(LAUGHTER)
VAN SUSTEREN: ... Is information that he could actually...
CARDOZA: This poor guy!
VAN SUSTEREN: No, but he could -- yes, poor -- I don't feel sorry for him. Not at all.
CARDOZA: I don't, either. I don't, either. You're spot on. I agree.
VAN SUSTEREN: Just so you know, I left on a Friday to go to Asia, flew 17 hours, hit the ground, no sleep, did the work with did on the ground with two producers and turned around and was back Monday morning and on the air Monday night.
CARDOZA: Greta, you care. You care about your job.
VAN SUSTEREN: I'm not the prosecutor!
CARDOZA: He obviously doesn't.
VAN SUSTEREN: I'm not...
(CROSSTALK)
CARDOZA: He doesn't care, obviously. He doesn't care.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, you know what? Shame on him and shame on Aruba, you know, because -- you know, I mean...
CARDOZA: Well, there's no question about it. Maybe this is -- maybe this is back at the United States for interfering for these type of things. They go, "Fine, you solve it, we're not."
VAN SUSTEREN: Interfering? Interfering?
CARDOZA: Well...
VAN SUSTEREN: Whoa!
CARDOZA: ... Maybe a bad choice of words. I'll give you that. Bad choice of words on my part.
(LAUGHTER)
CARDOZA: But they have enough to take him to trial now. They have enough.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: I'll tell you what they do have, though, and...
CARDOZA: I think they do, not for murder. Not for murder.
VAN SUSTEREN: Oh, well, but I -- they have -- with what we have, if Hans Mos would dare to take the 44 minutes that he needs to look at this, if he had this, he could at least use his subpoena power and disprove it or prove it. Bernie, corroboration is always key in these (INAUDIBLE)
GRIMM: Yes, especially when your case is reliant on a defendant's own statement. At least, in most jurisdictions, you need some other evidence to corroborate it. Some other evidence to corroborate it. I don't know what the law is down there. I've lost any sort of hope. This kid, on the other hand, if you're him and you're innocent, this -- I think he's been arrested three times now. And this is very distressing. Michael raises a point, which is just unload both barrels, see what you got. You can get him on sort of tampering and perhaps obstruction if they have something similar...
VAN SUSTEREN: But you've got to care! I mean, it's, like...
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: In your wildest dreams, Bernie...
CARDOZA: But does anybody...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... Can you imagine turning down -- can you imagine -- I mean, I'm not going to...
(CROSSTALK)
GRIMM: If you called me and you said you had evidence in a case of mine, I'd be -- before you hung up the phone, I'd be at the front door.
WILLIAMS: I have a feeling that Hans...
CARDOZA: Does anybody...
WILLIAMS: ... Will be calling you in regard to this.
VAN SUSTEREN: I called him!
WILLIAMS: Well, I have a feeling...
VAN SUSTEREN: He has my number!
WILLIAMS: ... Now, after he sees this...
VAN SUSTEREN: He has my number!
WILLIAMS: (INAUDIBLE) And the minister out in Aruba sees it...
VAN SUSTEREN: I don't think that...
CARDOZA: Greta...
WILLIAMS: ... That he may very well...
VAN SUSTEREN: Yes, Michael?
WILLIAMS: ... Put a call in to you.
CARDOZA: Does anybody believe that Joran really killed her intentionally? I don't think any one of us believe that. Did he dispose of the body? Absolutely. May have given her drugs that led to her death?
VAN SUSTEREN: I think you ought to wait until Monday.
CARDOZA: Absolutely.
VAN SUSTEREN: Wait until Monday.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: Tune in Monday. And like I say, Monday, you know, it may be the answer or it may be a wild goose chase, but at least we have the decency to pursue the leads...
CARDOZA: Hear, hear.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... And all Hans Mos had to do was meet me halfway on a plane. He didn't have to do any of the heavy lifting, which we did. But anyway, panel, thank you. I'm sure you'll be watching Monday.
