Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19/08 to 11/21/08

[Scandi]

Hi,  I just wanted to clarify something re the ponds.

Are the pond at the Dam of Monserat and the Moko pond two different ponds?

The new male witness account with the augmented statement is mentioned as having Joran walking from Monserat by that man's house.

Yet it is the Moko pond which is quite close to Joran's house, and the pond full of old machinery {an old quarry} and where the searchers quit the same day they started.  There are photos of this pond on pp138 of the Shango Thread.  xox

[Keepthefaith]

Val & Seb

When I woke up I asked my brother if he knew how Joran had made it to his house. My brother told me that he had been called during the night hours by Joran. My brother told me that when he was talking to Joran, he could hear that Joran was breathing heavily. My brother told me that had asked Joran what he was doing at the time. Joran had told my brother that he was at that time walking home towards his house. My brother told me that he had asked Joran about the girl and that Joran had told him that he had left the girl at the beach. According to my brother Joran had told him that he had taken off his shoes and that he and the girl had gone into the water. Joran had then told my brother that after that he and the girl had gotten out of the water and that the girl had fallen asleep on the beach.

He had asked Joran about The girl ? why ? how did they know that there was a "Girl "

Yes Johan, there's alot of good info that came straight from the horses (asses) mouth - especially this one that shows concern about 'the girl'.  The girl who was probably propped up against the car (where Deepak took a squirt) and then collapsed, hitting her head, and then Joran went to pick her up.

But I like the fact that Satish states that Deepak said he heard Joran breathing heavy. And the recent witness who saw him walking very fast w/one sneaker seems to corroborate this story. So we can surmise from Satish's statement that whatever happened to Natalee happened BEFORE Joran's heavy panting.

There's alot of twisted truth to thier blabbering statements and also the questions they were asked by LE. 

Do we know what time the phone call was?

[oceanexploration]

Which poster's hints are you referring to?

I haven't been lurking.  Today was the first time here in many months. Reading back I can see people have some of the same questions as myself.  I suppose the answers to some of these questions may never come. I trust others will be answered in time. 

The owner of the Persistence (John), crew members during the search, Tim Trahan, and Tim Miller are all wonderful, trustworthy, hard working people.  They had no business or motives with this search other than to find Natalee. Suggesting anything else is purely speculative and wrong, though I suppose it's human to question, connect abstract dots, and make assumptions.  I can personally vouch for any one of them.  I cannot say the same for others.

I'm not commenting on the trap or it's contents.  It's good to see things are still being thrown around the monkey cage. 

Regards to all.

Thanks, Kyle.

I hate to even ask but I don't want to see anything left hanging.

Would Mr. Schaefer also be included on your list?

VMS,
My honest mistake.  Louis is certainly on that list.  I trust him.  I know he went into the search effort with one purpose... finding Natalee.  Of course I'm sure he hoped for a better outcome and to feed on some of the good press if she were proved found.  If I lost as much of a personal fortune in one year as he, I would have lost my mind.

[oceanexploration]

John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Kyle,

I, too, have an additional question for you that pertains to a post you made here stating that you were taking some time off from 1/9 - 1/14....you also stated you saw a vessel from the beach on 1/11 & 1/12.  There are also postings on your Persistence website within that timeframe that seem to infer that you were onboard.  Can you clear that up for me? 

Thanks.

[vms]

Which poster's hints are you referring to?

I haven't been lurking.  Today was the first time here in many months. Reading back I can see people have some of the same questions as myself.  I suppose the answers to some of these questions may never come. I trust others will be answered in time. 

The owner of the Persistence (John), crew members during the search, Tim Trahan, and Tim Miller are all wonderful, trustworthy, hard working people.  They had no business or motives with this search other than to find Natalee. Suggesting anything else is purely speculative and wrong, though I suppose it's human to question, connect abstract dots, and make assumptions.  I can personally vouch for any one of them.  I cannot say the same for others.

I'm not commenting on the trap or it's contents.  It's good to see things are still being thrown around the monkey cage. 

Regards to all.

Thanks, Kyle.

I hate to even ask but I don't want to see anything left hanging.

Would Mr. Schaefer also be included on your list?

VMS,
My honest mistake.  Louis is certainly on that list.  I trust him.  I know he went into the search effort with one purpose... finding Natalee.  Of course I'm sure he hoped for a better outcome and to feed on some of the good press if she were proved found.  If I lost as much of a personal fortune in one year as he, I would have lost my mind.

Thank you very much.
I hope you have a very happy holiday season with your family this year.

[Magnolia]

Ocean,
Can the ocean survey that the Persistence did be used for
other purposes?

[Blonde]

John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

oceanexploration

Can you please help me out in the thread that I have started Thank You . Blonde

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

[BUCKSHOT]

Buckshot, in the event "what I feel" differs from "what I know to be provable and true", I'll have to obstain from answering your question directly.  I will say the FBI report to Mos which Mos publicly stated in verbatum, said exactly what the FBI were invited to accomplish.  The FBI report and therefore Mos's report was accurate regarding the samples.  As to what the samples were, I cannot comment because I in fact do not know what was sampled. 

Thank you. Much appreciated.
You are a good man for your efforts.

The monkeys seem to feel certain items (samples) were replaced when sent off to the FBI to be tested. We also have our doubts about certain people that helped you in the search.

Was there ever a time when you guys were not present in searches? Maybe taking a break and/or chasing down possible other leads? We are trying to determine when a window of opportunity may have arose for evil do-ers.

[Altruist]

IF in fact no covert actions were planned by those pursuing the search for Natalee Holloway on the ship of the Persistence were planned long ahead of the trip & with adequate staff & communication ability regardless of being under the authority of the Aruban ALE & if necessary covert actions were not taken on that search to obtain samples of everything in that trap or any others that appeared to hold worthy items to be collected, prior to alerting ALE, than that kind of naievity/stupidity in experienced, educated American men I just did not even fathom for a second.  I had faith that despite what was being publicly communicated other measures, for sure, had been taken to ensure corruption could not trump the efforts by the American's.

[sharon]

Which poster's hints are you referring to?

I haven't been lurking.  Today was the first time here in many months. Reading back I can see people have some of the same questions as myself.  I suppose the answers to some of these questions may never come. I trust others will be answered in time. 

The owner of the Persistence (John), crew members during the search, Tim Trahan, and Tim Miller are all wonderful, trustworthy, hard working people.  They had no business or motives with this search other than to find Natalee. Suggesting anything else is purely speculative and wrong, though I suppose it's human to question, connect abstract dots, and make assumptions.  I can personally vouch for any one of them.  I cannot say the same for others.

I'm not commenting on the trap or it's contents.  It's good to see things are still being thrown around the monkey cage. 

Regards to all.

Thanks, Kyle.

I hate to even ask but I don't want to see anything left hanging.

Would Mr. Schaefer also be included on your list?

I agree -- I hate for things to be left hanging.

So what's up with this?????

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.440

March 20, 2008
Private Eye

(snipped)

Kyle- I emailed Beth your concerns and have suggested to her that she contact the appropriate people on the Persistence, including yourself, and attempt to reconcile as best they can the material the crew saw recovered from the cage versus what they received. I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made, and reminded her that the press release said that the material did not match her blouse. I also pointed out that in the December 30 photo there appeared to be a skull and in the January 7, it did not look at all like a skull. But I did think I noticed a second object in one of the zip lock bags that could possibly be the object that resembled a skull, possibly. I am a little amazed that the denim looks remarkably NOT deteriorated. Mostly I was trying to pique her interest to get her to contact the appropriate people. I think Dave worked closely with the owner of the boat, so he may well have already done this. But I know Beth appreciates the heads up, as do I. You are a good man. I did tell her my main concern was that you were concerned, and that I respect and trust your judgment enough for her to investigate this. Thanks.

[Helen Back]

John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

Good afternoon monkeys,

Thanks OCEAN EX for setting us straight.  Well monkeys, the guy in the red shirt, NOT SILVETTI, came on with Arubans and we still need to identify him.

Very helpful.

[always 1]

John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

Good afternoon monkeys,

Thanks OCEAN EX for setting us straight.  Well monkeys, the guy in the red shirt, NOT SILVETTI, came on with Arubans and we still need to identify him.

Very helpful.

Ok, I am confused.  Did Kermit say Silvetti was correct????

[sharon]

Hi,  I just wanted to clarify something re the ponds.

Are the pond at the Dam of Monserat and the Moko pond two different ponds?

The new male witness account with the augmented statement is mentioned as having Joran walking from Monserat by that man's house.

Yet it is the Moko pond which is quite close to Joran's house, and the pond full of old machinery {an old quarry} and where the searchers quit the same day they started.  There are photos of this pond on pp138 of the Shango Thread.  xox

I'm confused, too Scandi 

Maybe someone 'in the know' can clarify???

Jan 31 - Caps is talking about MOKO
Feb 26 - Caps is posting - the Slinja Pond
Feb 28 = crew searched pond - photo in newspaper at MONTSERAT

[oceanexploration]

Buckshot, in the event "what I feel" differs from "what I know to be provable and true", I'll have to obstain from answering your question directly.  I will say the FBI report to Mos which Mos publicly stated in verbatum, said exactly what the FBI were invited to accomplish.  The FBI report and therefore Mos's report was accurate regarding the samples.  As to what the samples were, I cannot comment because I in fact do not know what was sampled. 

Thank you. Much appreciated.
You are a good man for your efforts.

The monkeys seem to feel certain items (samples) were replaced when sent off to the FBI to be tested. We also have our doubts about certain people that helped you in the search.

Was there ever a time when you guys were not present in searches? Maybe taking a break and/or chasing down possible other leads? We are trying to determine when a window of opportunity may have arose for evil do-ers.

I share this "feeling" and believe the Monkeys have good reason to feel this way too. 

As for your question:  We were vigilant during the search, but there doesn't need to be a window of opportunity arise for "evil do-ers" to do thier deeds. 
When you are in a position of authority which is shared among such a few, you can say and do whatever is seen justifiable by the other few in authority.  Unfortunately, one of the major hindrances that has aided in keeping this case from being solved for so long is the nuances of Aruban and international law.  Being an American vessel operating in Aruban waters makes us subject to a certain set of laws.  We are seen as invited guests which at any moment can be "uninvited", either politely or impolitely.  The FBI is also subject to their own legal limitations. They are subject to following laws and jurisdiction.

To politely reiterate, I am not commenting on the trap or its contents.   

[Altruist]

John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

Good afternoon monkeys,

Thanks OCEAN EX for setting us straight.  Well monkeys, the guy in the red shirt, NOT SILVETTI, came on with Arubans and we still need to identify him.

Very helpful.

Ok, I am confused.  Did Kermit say Silvetti was correct????

Yes, thank you for the clarificiation Silvetti not being in that photo.  Yesterday I believe that Blonde brought forward the screen capture of Silvetti, full front shot, on board the Persistence.  It was obvious when compared to red shirt in that photo that they are not the same man.  Red Shirt has at least 15-20 years more than Silvetti, red shirt is totally grey, imo & very old.

[Altruist]

Kermit, why an untrue identification of red shirt????????????????????????????????

[sharon]

I share this "feeling" and believe the Monkeys have good reason to feel this way too. 

As for your question:  We were vigilant during the search, but there doesn't need to be a window of opportunity arise for "evil do-ers" to do thier deeds. 
When you are in a position of authority which is shared among such a few, you can say and do whatever is seen justifiable by the other few in authority.  Unfortunately, one of the major hindrances that has aided in keeping this case from being solved for so long is the nuances of Aruban and international law.  Being an American vessel operating in Aruban waters makes us subject to a certain set of laws.  We are seen as invited guests which at any moment can be "uninvited", either politely or impolitely.   The FBI is also subject to their own legal limitations. They are subject to following laws and jurisdiction.

To politely reiterate, I am not commenting on the trap or its contents.   

Kyle -- when were you all made aware of of these constraints??  From the start -- before the Persistence arrived In Aruba? Or when you boarded??

Was there any consideration or discussion that you were aware of about NOT going forward with this -- due to these contraints and limitations?

thanks

[Magnolia]

John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

oceanexploration

Can you please help me out in the thread that I have started Thank You . Blonde

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

Blonde,  There are some good pictures of John Silvetti and others at
Dr. Hodges website.....forensicthoughtprints.com

[Poochy]

Val & Seb

When I woke up I asked my brother if he knew how Joran had made it to his house. My brother told me that he had been called during the night hours by Joran. My brother told me that when he was talking to Joran, he could hear that Joran was breathing heavily. My brother told me that had asked Joran what he was doing at the time. Joran had told my brother that he was at that time walking home towards his house. My brother told me that he had asked Joran about the girl and that Joran had told him that he had left the girl at the beach. According to my brother Joran had told him that he had taken off his shoes and that he and the girl had gone into the water. Joran had then told my brother that after that he and the girl had gotten out of the water and that the girl had fallen asleep on the beach.

He had asked Joran about The girl ? why ? how did they know that there was a "Girl "

Yes Johan, there's alot of good info that came straight from the horses (asses) mouth - especially this one that shows concern about 'the girl'.  The girl who was probably propped up against the car (where Deepak took a squirt) and then collapsed, hitting her head, and then Joran went to pick her up.

But I like the fact that Satish states that Deepak said he heard Joran breathing heavy. And the recent witness who saw him walking very fast w/one sneaker seems to corroborate this story. So we can surmise from Satish's statement that whatever happened to Natalee happened BEFORE Joran's heavy panting.

There's alot of twisted truth to thier blabbering statements and also the questions they were asked by LE. 

Do we know what time the phone call was?

Not sure of the phone call, but here's some more interesting stuff

QUESTION - WHY DO YOU NEED TO STOP A CAR BEFORE YOU TOSS OUT A C&C CUP? WHERE DID THEY STOP - ANYBODY KNOW?

SATISH KALPOE 06/13/2005 Suspect Statement (from BFN)

"...We drove home. Along the way home, east of Marriot, I asked my brother to stop the car for a moment. He stopped and I threw out the Carlos & Charlie´s cups. The cup I got in C & C was from the drink “Yard”. After that we drove to our home. When we got home I went to sleep right away. I don´t know what my brother went to do. In the morning, at 6.30 a.m. my mother woke me up so I had to go to school. I told her I would not have classes that early and that my classes would start at 11.00 a.m.

"...My mother was then going to wake me up at 10.30 a.m. She though overslept and did not wake me up. I woke up around 12.00 noon. My brother woke up around 1 p.m. I asked him how Joran did get home during the night. He told me Joran had called him while walking in the direction to his home. He told me Joran told him he walked bare feet because he left the shoes at the beach. Then I asked my brother how the girl was doing. He told me Joran told him he left the girl behind at the beach. That day Joran did not tell my brother exactly when had happened on the beach.


SATISH KALPOE 07/03/2005 Suspect Statement

"...You advise me that on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the nighttime hours three fishermen were on the beach north of the "Marriott hotel" and that they at no time had seen our car in the vicinity of the hotel. On your question how can I explain that, I will tell you the following:
When Deepak’s car was parked at the north side of the Marriott hotel, Joran and the missing girl immediately stepped out and walked in the direction of the beach. The three men could not have seen Deepak and I because we did not walk to the beach.


SATISH KALPOE - 05/31/2005 WITNESS Statement

"...Around 01.45, we arrived at the Holiday Inn hotel. My brother parked his car at north of the two entryways which are parallel to the lobby of the hotel. The girl stepped out of the car and she fell on the ground because she was very drunk. I saw that Joran got out of the car to help the girl. I saw that he held her under her armpits so that she could stand. After the girl was standing, she pushed Joran. I heard the girl say in a very angry tone to Joran in English:  I can stand on my own. (I can only stand up; observation JACOBS) I saw that the girl walked in the direction of the hotel lobby. Before the girl got to the lobby Deepak drove away by means of the second entryway. While driving away I saw that a dark skinned guard who was dressed in black went to the girl and started to talk. I saw also that the guard had a walkie talkie in his hands.