Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru 11/23/08

[bastibro]

Joran is a Moron.. 
He has been lucky and I am sure he rolls his fathers eyes all the time.

The mindset of a Nazi is a political thought..
Paulus religion ? He is an atheist.
The Nazis said they " killed God.. With that thought.. If You had that mindset, that kind of thinking pattern would have no concern for killing OTHERS. Like Natalee
and So, It is..
jmho

I have been told Joran has Jewish blood, he`s a Dutch jew i think.
I`ll search for links 

[johan555]

Do you have the movie opsporing verzocht also ?

[Edward]

I read early on on the Jewish thing.. Then someplace I read he was atheist.
That would be interesting to clarify.. As somebody from a Jewish background would could use Hitler comments in some derogatory sense..
In other words, one of the worst demonized thoughts he could come up with, in order to call Beth a name. 
To insult her..
I could see that..

[bastibro]

Do you have the movie opsporing verzocht also ?

Only the On the Record version of it. IMO it`s of no relevance.

[wreck]

Just a thought on Kermit's posts about a possible "pipeline" from Venezuela to Aruba.

OceanExplorer told us that the Persistence had no capabilities to detect oil (only side sonar capable of "mapping" the ocean floor). Well, isn't that exactly what would be needed to to know WHERE to run a pipeline?? hmmmmmmm 

[mariloo]

Someone please explain this cage to me.  What exactly is it used for and are cages like that still in use in Aruba?  I have never seen one like this before.   Please and fresh bananas to all.

[Anna]

Quote from Granny Toad today at 12:00:

Anna - not that it likely means anything much but have you any insight on what became of that front passenger seat from Paul's red & white jeep? I mean now it sounds like Joran left his muddy slimy mark that morning Paul pretended to have slept like an angel but ...

Another thing I've always wondered is why the 2 times close together latenight ATM cash withdrawals was that Joran or Paul?


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No, Gran, I don't know what happened to the seat but only that it was already missing in the very first photos of Paulus' car.  It caught my attention because he is a man from a family of five with three boys.  I have three and can't imagine the luxury of having a car seat removed or even getting away from them that way, lol.

As for the bank transactions, I do believe that to have been Paulus and not Joran for we don't have any accounts of Joran doing any banking on his own.  Supposedly, Paulus even had to deposit Joran's winnings so I tend to think it was Joran but have no way of knowing anything for a fact, not having been present at the time.

Same as others.

[Anna]

Someone please explain this cage to me.  What exactly is it used for and are cages like that still in use in Aruba?  I have never seen one like this before.   Please and fresh bananas to all.

It is a large, commercial FISHING trap, not a crab trap as often described.  Much too large for crab trap unless they have some different species in that region.  Fish trap.  Dropped off and later recovered by commercial fishermen.

[WhiskeyGirl]

From Joran's 5/31/05 statement -

We drove past the Lighthouse and after that to the Holiday Inn Hotel.  In the car the girl said that her mother was the sister of Hitler and that they owned a plantation.  She also said that Deepak and Satish were black and that black people worked as slaves on the plantations. The girl was very drunk.

From a link at BFN, quoting something from RU.  This is a translation from Joran's book (page 124?) -

She kept on asking me where she was from. I had told her that I didn't know. Natalee asked me this about five or six times. Natalee also told me that she was really good at French kissing and that she wanted to stay alone with me and French kiss. Natalee then told me again that her mother was the sister of "Hitler".

page 327 - from translation posted at BFN

There are whisperings that Natalee and Beth had a poor relationship. Joran notes that Natalee's friends and Beth have contradicted this, but then asks why, in a drunk coneition, she said her mother was "Hitler's sister". She didn't just say that to him, her girlfriends confirm she said it to them also. Joran says this is a remark that someone "just doesn't make" about one's mother, and it makes one believe that Natalee thought Beth was too "authoritarian".

Current Affair interview -

Current Affair
Reporter: What did she tell you? That you can remember.
Joran: She told me a lot of things. One thing she told me was that her mother was Hitler’s sister's daughter. I don’t know what she was talking, a lot of strange things...

Joran's 06/09/05 statement

I have to say that while we were driving past the front of the container harbour, Natalee told me that her mother was the sister of "Hitler". I laughed and did not ask her what she meant by that. She had said this to me about five times.

Satish 06/11/05 statement

While my brother was driving towards the "lighthouse" Joran and the girl were talking in the back of the car. I could not hear what Joran and the girl were talking about. The music in the car was on so loud that we could not hear what the people in the back of the car were saying. During the drive I had at one point heard that the girl had said the word "hitler". I had turned down the music a little. I then heard the girl saying that she was related to "hitler" and that her mother was the sister of "hitler". I also heard the girl saying that she was from Alabama and that her parents owned a plantation there that had slaves working on the plantation. Joran had told me later that the girl had asked him if we were his slaves. But I had not heard that. My brother continued to drive into the direction of the "lighthouse".

Jaime Alberto CARRASQUILIA CACERES 6/17/05 statement

After that if I am not mistaken it was the beginning of June 2005, it was a Friday- or Saturday night that I bought a pizza at Domino's and then went to Joran's place. (with this the 3rd or 4th of June is meant; comment Croes). On that day I arrived at approximately 21.00 hours at Joran's place. I saw that "Koen", "Sander" and Joran were in the apartment of Joran and that they were playing poker. Koen and Sander are brothers but I do not know their last name. I had told Joran that I would be bringing them a pizza and a coca-cola. I also asked Joran if they had found the missing girl. Joran answered me that the missing girl had not been found yet. Then Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and he drove in the four door grey car, make Honda Civic that was owned by Deepak to "Carlos & Charlies" and that the three of them had then driven around with the missing girl. According to Joran the girl was strange. Joran told me that the girl was strange because she told him that her mother was "Hitler's sister". Joran told me that the girl wanted to see the sharks in the sea of Aruba and that they had dropped off the missing girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel.

Deepak 6/29/05 statement

On your question whether I heard Natalee say in the car that her mother was Hitler's sister, that they owned a plantation and that they had black people as employees. I had only heard the word Hitler. The rest I did not hear. Joran told me later all the things the girl had said.

Chapter 8 translation of Joran's book at BFN, pages 13 & 14 -

They start kissing again and Natalee asks if the 2 Kalpoes are his slaves. No Joran laughs and asks her why?

Natalee responds that her parents have a plantation and the people who work there are black guys. To her all blacks are slaves.

Joran does not know if the Kalpoes heard this or not.

translation of Joran's book at BFN -

P 334

Joran says: "Natalee did use cocaine that week. She had it in her possession and offered it twice to a peer, which was shown in Peter R. de Vries’ broadcast about the case."

Also that week there were many boats close to shore because of the Soul Beach Music Festival. Maybe somebody saw from a boat that she was alone on the beach, took her on a boat, raped her, killed her and threw the body overboard at sea.

Joran says that it's also not impossible Natalee was kidnapped to be a sex slave in South America. But Joran says if that had happened he thinks she would have been murdered because all the publicity made her too much of a risk to her kidnappers.

CHAPTER 11 Breakthrough by Best Friend Freddy - from BFN

P153

The girl said that if the Kalpoe brothers would had lived in her city, they would have been slaves. After this they drove to the hotel. When the girl opened the door of the car she fell on the ground. Joran wanted to help her, but she pushed him away.

Deepak Kalpoe Statement of June 11, 2005 - bfn

To your question whether I can make detailed statements about the conversations that were happening while we were driving this route, I can say the following. I did hear some things. I heard the girl say something about sharks and "Lighthouse". The comment she made about the videoclip. Joran had told me two days later that the girl had asked him whether me and my brother had been his slaves. The girl had told Joran that she was from Alabama, and that she didn't like people of dark colour and that they owned a farm and that the people working on their farm were all of dark colour.

Satish Kalpoe Statement June 11, 2005 - bfn

The music in the car was on so loud that we could not hear what the people in the back of the car were saying. During the drive I had at one point heard that the girl had said the word "hitler". I had turned down the music a little. I then heard the girl saying that she was related to "hitler" and that her mother was the sister of "hitler". I also heard the girl saying that she was from Alabama and that her parents owned a plantation there that had slaves working on the plantation. Joran had told me later that the girl had asked him if we were his slaves. But I had not heard that.

I believe KJ formally asked the US State Department if Beth was related to hitler...

[wreck]

Someone please explain this cage to me.  What exactly is it used for and are cages like that still in use in Aruba?  I have never seen one like this before.   Please and fresh bananas to all.

At first I thought you wanted us to explain our "monkey cage" here!!  Actually, I think local commercial fishermen use the cage to catch fish in ( not sure what variety).

[mariloo]

Someone please explain this cage to me.  What exactly is it used for and are cages like that still in use in Aruba?  I have never seen one like this before.   Please and fresh bananas to all.

It is a large, commercial FISHING trap, not a crab trap as often described.  Much too large for crab trap unless they have some different species in that region.  Fish trap.  Dropped off and later recovered by commercial fishermen.

Thanks so much.  So the one in the pictures is probably being used .  I got the impression it was old and had been there for awhile and they were surprised to find it.  Maybe I read more into it.  Thanks again

[always 1]

Someone please explain this cage to me.  What exactly is it used for and are cages like that still in use in Aruba?  I have never seen one like this before.   Please and fresh bananas to all.

I can only speculate with all the restaurants in Aruba, they would have a need for traps, and it was said they put rags full of bait in them, however I don't know about the size and weight of this one.  It certainly is heavy duty.

[Anna]

BLAH!

I saw you calling me old.  You are a sight for sore old monkey eyes after reading all this.

Never thought I would say it but it is great to see you after all this time.  Guess we all wander back no matter what after a while.   

I think Greta has some new information but unlike most, I don't think it has to do with the trap but could be wrong.  I think it is more along the banking route. 

Or even maybe to do with Rudy Croes having the two dancer/sex slaves that said they were being held against their will as well.  Guess it could be anything so can't wait to see.

Watching her each night just in hope she sheds more light on this.

[Blonde]

Someone please explain this cage to me.  What exactly is it used for and are cages like that still in use in Aruba?  I have never seen one like this before.   Please and fresh bananas to all.

Please start reading here
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

[Magnolia]

Just a thought on Kermit's posts about a possible "pipeline" from Venezuela to Aruba.

OceanExplorer told us that the Persistence had no capabilities to detect oil (only side sonar capable of "mapping" the ocean floor). Well, isn't that exactly what would be needed to to know WHERE to run a pipeline?? hmmmmmmm 

I think it would, Wreck.  But I don't have the finincial wizzardry to
follow the money.

[Anna]

Mariloo,

No, it is all crusty so I don't think it is in use now.  Some have speculated it was drug drop off point but there is too much growth on it for it to be used for much of anything currently.  Maybe just abandoned by commercial fishermen who never came back?  Lots from all over the world fish in waters far from home especially the Japanese and others who seek food in diverse locations.

[Blonde]

Quote from Granny Toad today at 12:00:

Anna - not that it likely means anything much but have you any insight on what became of that front passenger seat from Paul's red & white jeep? I mean now it sounds like Joran left his muddy slimy mark that morning Paul pretended to have slept like an angel but ...

Another thing I've always wondered is why the 2 times close together latenight ATM cash withdrawals was that Joran or Paul?


--------


No, Gran, I don't know what happened to the seat but only that it was already missing in the very first photos of Paulus' car.  It caught my attention because he is a man from a family of five with three boys.  I have three and can't imagine the luxury of having a car seat removed or even getting away from them that way, lol.

As for the bank transactions, I do believe that to have been Paulus and not Joran for we don't have any accounts of Joran doing any banking on his own.  Supposedly, Paulus even had to deposit Joran's winnings so I tend to think it was Joran but have no way of knowing anything for a fact, not having been present at the time.

Same as others.

can you post the pictures you have please.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Someone please explain this cage to me.  What exactly is it used for and are cages like that still in use in Aruba?  I have never seen one like this before.   Please and fresh bananas to all.

At first I thought you wanted us to explain our "monkey cage" here!!  Actually, I think local commercial fishermen use the cage to catch fish in ( not sure what variety).

I have to admit that is what I first thought, as well!!       

[Anna]

Is it not possible to map the ocean floor AND look for Natalee at the same time?

Is it not possible to have an altruistic reason for helping her family AND a political motivation to get the ole MEP simultaneously?

Isn't this what killing two birds with one stone refers to doing?

I think we have seen a great deal of this kind of action and I personally don't have a negative judgment of those who might do it.

[mariloo]

Mariloo,

No, it is all crusty so I don't think it is in use now.  Some have speculated it was drug drop off point but there is too much growth on it for it to be used for much of anything currently.  Maybe just abandoned by commercial fishermen who never came back?  Lots from all over the world fish in waters far from home especially the Japanese and others who seek food in diverse locations.

Thanks.  Is this the one TM thinks a skull was in and was not allowed to go back and check because someone (aruban) already checked and gave a thumbs down there was nothing in it?