Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru 11/23/08

[texasmom]

The only ones I recognize now are Mos and Dolph.  Don't think green shirt is Papito.  Does Bulldog have a camera around his neck?  Why do the Arubans have "visitor" name tags?  I would think the crew would recognize a non-crew member.   

Was this whole scene just a photo op?

Did anyone dive between Christmas Eve and Dec. 30th?

I thought at first that bulldog had the camera, but if you watch the video...I think he's standing BESIDE the guy with the camera.

I don't think they ever dove on the site until Dec 29th, Mos and the rest on board on the 30th.  That is what I gathered from the video.  But of course we could have been misled.

sorry, forgot to put a link to the video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302471

[teacat]

I turned him

Ooh! Thank you! Same forehead shape, huh?

[Blonde]

Any possibility that Vocking was present, as I suggested in my post?
(At lower left corner of pic)

Or am I seeing things???

Ben Vocking

[texasmom]

I believe that when Kyle described the cage, he said one side was not in good shape and the door was actually laying on the floor of the cage.  The items sampled IIRC were on top of the door.  So they could easily view inside without looking through mesh.

if the door is on the floor, do you mean the cage's door is on the ocean floor? if so, do you mean the items sampled were still inside the cage or laying on top of the cage?  Either way, the photos still look like the things Kermit circled (the shoe) are INSIDE a cage. How does the camera appear to be inside with the items? Can someone post the photos again so we know what I'm talking about?

[vms]

I believe that when Kyle described the cage, he said one side was not in good shape and the door was actually laying on the floor of the cage.  The items sampled IIRC were on top of the door.  So they could easily view inside without looking through mesh.

if the door is on the floor, do you mean the cage's door is on the ocean floor? if so, do you mean the items sampled were still inside the cage or laying on top of the cage?  Either way, the photos still look like the things Kermit circled (the shoe) are INSIDE a cage. How does the camera appear to be inside with the items? Can someone post the photos again so we know what I'm talking about?

Positioning of the ROV and control of the camera would be my guess but I know nothing...just thinking Titanic footage...

[Blonde]

Ok, so I am searching through police pics looking for Groucho. 

VMS are you saying this is or is not Papito

[SS]

Kyle's statement...

I got off the boat for 4 nights from the 10-14th of Jan for some much needed R&R. I was in close communication with the boat and continued to post updates.  I didn't need to broadcast my presence on the island at the time.  I observed the vessel at or very near the location on the 11th and 12th for 42 and 45 minutes respectively.  I questioned the possibility of unknown diving ops taking place.  The talks about recovering the trap ceased around that time as well.  My concern was the trap was being cleaned up (legitimately or otherwise), but I have no evidence of this either way as we never revisited the site.



I was the one who discovered that the log and Kyle being on shore didn't match.  Kyle now says that he was posting the log from shore.  So, Kyle was leading us to believe that he was still on Persistence as he was describing the progress of the day.  How does Kyle know what took place while he was on shore?  It sounds to me like he wasn't getting a lot of information.  Is the Persistence log accurate or is it something that was created from shore?  Wouldn't the ship's log or diary indicate who the people were who came onboard with ALE?  Wasn't Kyle in charge of the log?  I am very confused about all of this.

[vms]

Blonde,

It is not Papito. Papito is in the same group of pics at that location that day. I posted the link, will have to find it again...

[teacat]

I believe that when Kyle described the cage, he said one side was not in good shape and the door was actually laying on the floor of the cage.  The items sampled IIRC were on top of the door.  So they could easily view inside without looking through mesh.

if the door is on the floor, do you mean the cage's door is on the ocean floor? if so, do you mean the items sampled were still inside the cage or laying on top of the cage?  Either way, the photos still look like the things Kermit circled (the shoe) are INSIDE a cage. How does the camera appear to be inside with the items? Can someone post the photos again so we know what I'm talking about?

Ok. Now if we go to 2:49 on the Dateline show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kg231BJ-rk&feature=related you can see the cage and it looks wholy intact on top, assuming that is the "top" of the cage. Where does the door attach to this cage; on a side? from the top, anyone?

[vms]

Blonde,

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6426/8/

[Pita]

I turned him

Ooh! Thank you! Same forehead shape, huh?

Yes, and hairline looks the same, too, IMO!

[teacat]

Blonde,

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6426/8/

Cool! I Dled a photo of "butterfly" from this site, exiting a door and don't know how to attach it to this post. But apparently, the man with the briefcase who appears on the Persistance is at this same event and those photos are about 20 frames away from the first man. So clearly not the same person at all but BOTH OF THEM linked in some fashion with corpses!!!!
Great....

[teacat]

I turned him

Ooh! Thank you! Same forehead shape, huh?

Yes, and hairline looks the same, too, IMO!

Yeah, both men look like people on board the Persistance. Coincidence? hmmmm

[San]

Blonde,

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6426/8/

[Blonde]

Blonde,

It is not Papito. Papito is in the same group of pics at that location that day. I posted the link, will have to find it again...

Ok then who is this other guy who looks like the guy on the boat

[texasmom]

I believe that when Kyle described the cage, he said one side was not in good shape and the door was actually laying on the floor of the cage.  The items sampled IIRC were on top of the door.  So they could easily view inside without looking through mesh.

if the door is on the floor, do you mean the cage's door is on the ocean floor? if so, do you mean the items sampled were still inside the cage or laying on top of the cage?  Either way, the photos still look like the things Kermit circled (the shoe) are INSIDE a cage. How does the camera appear to be inside with the items? Can someone post the photos again so we know what I'm talking about?

Ok. Now if we go to 2:49 on the Dateline show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kg231BJ-rk&feature=related you can see the cage and it looks wholy intact on top, assuming that is the "top" of the cage. Where does the door attach to this cage; on a side? from the top, anyone?

I believe from the side, I found OE's post about it:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=3285;sa=showPosts;start=40

56   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -  on: March 19, 2008, 03:27:10 PM 

Quote from: ******* on March 19, 2008, 03:21:50 PM

Thanks! I was figuring about the same,but wasn't sure if it could have been 10 years or so.

Was that cage intact/closed when you viewed it? Just wondering if it was,because that would help keep everything in the cage that was originally placed there. Also it would keep out the large fish that live at that depth.

Response from oceanexploration

It's possible to have been 10 years or so.  I don't know for certain and don't have any way to readily test this. The trap was somewhat intact.  It's north side was in poor shape, with significant deterioration of it's northern panels.  The trap's doop is usually fastened to the outside of the trap.  It was laying inside the trap, as if pushed open. The contents sampled inside the trap were laying on top of the door.  The trap was found in 90 ft.

[teacat]

Blonde,

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6426/8/

San THANK YOU!!! now... how did you do that: attach the phot to the post? I figured out how to attach a link...... I'm not completely useless, but close!

[teacat]

snip

I believe from the side, I found OE's post about it:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=3285;sa=showPosts;start=40

56   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -  on: March 19, 2008, 03:27:10 PM 

Quote from: ******* on March 19, 2008, 03:21:50 PM

Thanks! I was figuring about the same,but wasn't sure if it could have been 10 years or so.

Was that cage intact/closed when you viewed it? Just wondering if it was,because that would help keep everything in the cage that was originally placed there. Also it would keep out the large fish that live at that depth.

Response from oceanexploration

It's possible to have been 10 years or so.  I don't know for certain and don't have any way to readily test this. The trap was somewhat intact.  It's north side was in poor shape, with significant deterioration of it's northern panels.  The trap's doop is usually fastened to the outside of the trap.  It was laying inside the trap, as if pushed open. The contents sampled inside the trap were laying on top of the door.  The trap was found in 90 ft.

Ah so!!! ok now I understand you clearer. Thank you!

[Blonde]

[teacat]

Could "Moustache" work as an Aruban Coroner?

How can so many people be on a US flagged vessel and we don't know of a manifest?

*n. 1. A list of cargo or passengers carried on a ship or plane. Detailed statement of the contents put on a ship or other vehicle. A copy of the manifest is put in a safe place so that the exact cargo is known, even in the event the vessel is destroyed. A copy of a ship's manifest is kept on board for cargo identification purposes in the event of a search.