Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 - 11/24/08

[MumInOhio]

Not lurking Al, just trying to catch up on the posts.

I think Ree is on to the nub of the matter. I tried posting a long missive yesterday that disappeared and I didn't have the strength to rewrite it but it had to do with something Kyle wrote yesterday in the heat of the moment. (and yeah Kyle I know I said I would back off but here goes, first)

He said he found a target on the early morning of the  25th and was asked if he had more he was interested in for the ROV on the 29th. So my BIG questions start there.

1. Was he ASKED the question on the 29th or
2. Did the team determine DAYS before the 29th that the ROVs would do a dive on the 29th? (following me here, ya'll?)
3. WHY KYLE, Why did you say that the people on board knew better than to ask questions of you when YOU seem to be the one with answers? Is this because even on the 25th, 26th, 27th  and 28th, there were people on board that were IN ADDTION to the original team? Like Dateline filming over your shoulders?
4. Kyle never mentioned Dateline being on board in his weblog so how did they get on board, how did they get involved in the first place? Did they offer to help fund the search in exchange for some exclusive? Remember TMiller REALLY REALLY thought Natalee would be found right there, so much so that he made a phone call to Dave H 99.9% certain.
5. I don't recall Dateline mentioning ANYTHING about cloth or items being found and sent off to labs? Anyone else remember this??

SO as a result, I wake up this morning and read REE and think "oh man, this makes most sense."

THEY DID find something big, huge. THEY DIDN'T want the media, the polis, the authorities, no one to know til they recovered "items" themselves for analysis. Did anyone else find it strange that the "shoe" and the "skull" were ON TOP of the open cage door? Not inside, well inside, but on top of the cage door, laying open, like they were tossed in. Who knows how long any of that stuff had been there. But Kyle went off on the posters when he saw the photos on this website. I guess I would too if I were trying to get closure for the family without alerting the very people they didn't want knowing stuff.

And about that same time comes PDV with his undercover footage. Didn't we all think finally, that little jerk will get his! (ok he didn't but I can't think of a nicer place for him than a Thai prison.)

So there's Beth, she believes she knows what the monsters have done. She looks spent and ready to learn to cope and move on. THere is no "discovery of remains" for the media to turn any private burial into a circus and I tell you what, that would have been a nightmare for this poor family. What they have been thru is unbelieveable.

Everything drops off the radar. The FBI releases nothing of importance. Mos is gliding into retirement (have a nice life, get some good rest and comtemplate the misery you leave behind) Anita, think of your son in a Thai prison...... think of his brothers wondering for the rest of their lives jsut what you people did to their home and future.

THere are many mysteries in the past that "we" never learn the finality of, this one is probably going to join the rest. I'm ok with that.
I think I am , at least.

I agree with both yours' and Ree's posts...Thanks for the reminder...sometimes I forget all I have read the night before...and even what I read at 2AM!

[johan555]

Goodmorning !
At what time is the show this evening ?
Can we follow it here in the Netherlands ?

If IIRC, "On the Record" comes on at 10PM EST, the Fox Network.  I don't get Fox but am hoping that poster's will be typing what they are hearing in the thread from the show.

thanks Altruist !

[blah]

But didn't Kermit say these traitors were part of some cover up?  I don't think that is what most of were thinking Kermie meant...afterall why would he jump on Kyle like that if Kyle and co.  were the heroes?  I do not understand it at all.

I don't understand it either.  I'm just guessing.  Appears that Kermit and OE both are aware of the contents that were not shared with ALE.  Looks like there is a difference of opinion as to the strategy of when to "share the results".

I'm assuming that everyone went down to Aruba to go find a body and they knew ALE is corrupt and would never do anything, in fact they'd destroy any evidence they were given.

So maybe they gave them some "other evidence" as a test to see what they did with it and took the real evidence.  They bolted pretty fast.  OK so they get out of Dodge and decide that rather than share what they found with the world, perhaps they can use it later to frame ALE and expose the cover-up. 

Games are played w/ALE and the nooses are getting tighter.  Some are saying play the cards now while others say wait.  Beats me. 

I remember a long time ago, may have been back during the time they were searching, that OE posted a question to the board.  He asked us all that if they found Natalee, should they just bring her back home to the family and not tell the Arubans.  We all told him that is exactly what they should do.

[teacat]

Blah  I love watching your avatar

[MumInOhio]

Johan...do you remember who the Lawyer was that Beth hired in the Netherlands right after Feb. 3rd.

Any info on him...field of expertise...cases in the International Court?

Thanks in Advance as Always!

[MumInOhio]

Blah  I love watching your avatar

I would love to see Wreck's train wreck...Just one more time!

[johan555]

Johan...do you remember who the Lawyer was that Beth hired in the Netherlands right after Feb. 3rd.

Any info on him...field of expertise...cases in the International Court?

Thanks in Advance as Always!

Bram Moszkowicz Mom  and he did also the Alex Mathew case .

More about Bram here :

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnl.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBram_Moszkowicz&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en

[blah]

Blah  I love watching your avatar

 

[johan555]

Johan...do you remember who the Lawyer was that Beth hired in the Netherlands right after Feb. 3rd.

Any info on him...field of expertise...cases in the International Court?

Thanks in Advance as Always!

Bram Moszkowicz Mom  and he did also the Alex Mathew case .

More about Bram here :

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnl.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBram_Moszkowicz&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en

Eduardo Mathew case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Mathew

[teacat]

Blah  I love watching your avatar

 

I have DAYS here on this site where I feel like that stickman!

[MumInOhio]

Johan...do you remember who the Lawyer was that Beth hired in the Netherlands right after Feb. 3rd.

Any info on him...field of expertise...cases in the International Court?

Thanks in Advance as Always!

Bram Moszkowicz Mom  and he did also the Alex Mathew case .

More about Bram here :

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnl.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBram_Moszkowicz&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en

Thank You Johan...

[MumInOhio]

Johan...do you remember who the Lawyer was that Beth hired in the Netherlands right after Feb. 3rd.

Any info on him...field of expertise...cases in the International Court?

Thanks in Advance as Always!

Bram Moszkowicz Mom  and he did also the Alex Mathew case .

More about Bram here :

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnl.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBram_Moszkowicz&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en

Eduardo Mathew case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Mathew

snipped...

Mathew was released by order of the Minister of Justice of Aruba on April 30 2004 (by which time his application before the European Court of Human Rights had been communicated to the Netherlands Government).

The Court considered photographs and assessed the facts in detail in its Chamber judgment.

On September 29, 2005, the Court held, unanimously, that there had been a violation of Article 3 (prohibition of inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment) of the European Convention on Human Rights, in that:

the applicant was detained in solitary confinement for an excessive and unnecessarily protracted period;
he was detained for at least seven months in a cell which failed to provide adequate protection against the weather and the climate; and,
he had had to endure unnecessary and avoidable physical suffering in order to gain access to outdoor exercise and fresh air.
 
Under Article 41 (just satisfaction) of the Convention, the Court awarded the applicant 10,000 euros (EUR) for non-pecuniary damage and EUR 3,000 for costs and expenses

[Hotshot]

BUCKSHOT has asked Kermit about Caps…My Perceptions…FWIW

Caps led some of us a merry dance around the Shango thread at times. Caps made many off the wall posts…Caps very seldom backed up his posts? Caps “mis-spoke” often, intentionally IMO.  In the beginning, Caps was on posting in Shango all day and night. Think this was until April…Some wondered what he did for a living…lol…He started disappearing for days at a time.

Around April 25th, after being led up the garden path, I was convinced of some things about Caps. My post was misinterpreted…I did not say Caps was a troll.

I do not believe Caps just happened on SM after discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I believe he is part of the plan that has now emerged. You will notice that on a few occasions he revealed the news before it was the news.
 
There are 3 people we have been interested in this case that answers were not forthcoming from Caps.

Caps often took his cue from previous posts…come in a week later with what had been discussed…his posts often echoed the thoughts of other posters. Then if it didn’t fit he would change his mind.

Caps asked questions at times that I felt he already knew the answers to. He exposed much of the corruption in Aruba…All the dirt on all the Ministers and bigwigs.

Both Caps and his friend Carlos Tromp were out to expose that Corruption. Read Caps early posts about the ICC. In the Hague I believe. He said this is the only way for the Family to get Justice for Natalee. I believe this was posted in January.

BTW…Caps posted that he was a Resident Alien, ie US Permanent Resident…his post tells me he is not…

Let me know when to start a new thread…Who is CapsLockWizard and what does he Know?

How am I doing Kermie?

Mum, I am not trying to be mean in any way or form, but right now is not the time to pull this on CAPS.  You'll just have to trust me on this one.  You have no idea, who he is, or what he is doing.  A few of us do.  please leave this off the pages.  Klaas i am asking you to please help before it all goes up in smoke for what maybe the last chance of getting answers.

[sharon]

Blah  I love watching your avatar

 

ALWAYS good to see you blah! 

There was a 'squirrel' discussion on the Caylee thread -- and you invariably came up.   

[Altruist]

Regarding Eduardo Mathew, if the USA DEA & FBI has not approached this man then what a lost opportunity & shame on them.  It really doesn't make any sense to me how the USA has imprisoned him on a ? that could have definitely been misunderstood by him to be erroneous & that he would be in custody for all of this time & that he had been mistreated & that the mistreatment was in fact established & this was after as I understand it much of the evidence of his initial case had been destroyed, in this country, the court could have a complete copy of one's file & if the case goes to appeal & that original file can not be located even though there is a copy the accused is set free.

There really is something suspect going on with the treatment of this man, imo.

[blah]

Blah  I love watching your avatar

 

ALWAYS good to see you blah! 

There was a 'squirrel' discussion on the Caylee thread -- and you invariably came up.   

 

[Frijole]

But didn't Kermit say these traitors were part of some cover up?  I don't think that is what most of were thinking Kermie meant...afterall why would he jump on Kyle like that if Kyle and co.  were the heroes?  I do not understand it at all.

I don't understand it either.  I'm just guessing.  Appears that Kermit and OE both are aware of the contents that were not shared with ALE.  Looks like there is a difference of opinion as to the strategy of when to "share the results".

I'm assuming that everyone went down to Aruba to go find a body and they knew ALE is corrupt and would never do anything, in fact they'd destroy any evidence they were given.

So maybe they gave them some "other evidence" as a test to see what they did with it and took the real evidence.  They bolted pretty fast.  OK so they get out of Dodge and decide that rather than share what they found with the world, perhaps they can use it later to frame ALE and expose the cover-up. 

Games are played w/ALE and the nooses are getting tighter.  Some are saying play the cards now while others say wait.  Beats me. 

I remember a long time ago, may have been back during the time they were searching, that OE posted a question to the board.  He asked us all that if they found Natalee, should they just bring her back home to the family and not tell the Arubans.  We all told him that is exactly what they should do.

I missed that post... thanks for bringing it up.  Interesting!

[sharon]

Morning Monkeys!

Caught up and on my out for most of the day.

So.....I have been looking for other major philanthropic efforts from Mr Schaeffer and/or Mr Silvetti -- but I came up empty. But I'm not a a great researcher  -- I admit.

Anyone find anything to support other philanthropic 'causes' from either of these gentlemen??

Or 'why' they chose this one??


And thanks to Tamikosmom for posting what I could not find 

Yes -- Kyle was warned ( more than once) about the 'less than honest' effort on the part of Aruba...from those, like PI, with FIRST HAND experience.

But of course, Kyle knew better than all of us. Aruba proved to Kyle that Aruba LE deserved the respect   

And here we are.................is anyone REALLY surprised?

.

[MumInOhio]

BUCKSHOT has asked Kermit about Caps…My Perceptions…FWIW

Caps led some of us a merry dance around the Shango thread at times. Caps made many off the wall posts…Caps very seldom backed up his posts? Caps “mis-spoke” often, intentionally IMO.  In the beginning, Caps was on posting in Shango all day and night. Think this was until April…Some wondered what he did for a living…lol…He started disappearing for days at a time.

Around April 25th, after being led up the garden path, I was convinced of some things about Caps. My post was misinterpreted…I did not say Caps was a troll.

I do not believe Caps just happened on SM after discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I believe he is part of the plan that has now emerged. You will notice that on a few occasions he revealed the news before it was the news.
 
There are 3 people we have been interested in this case that answers were not forthcoming from Caps.

Caps often took his cue from previous posts…come in a week later with what had been discussed…his posts often echoed the thoughts of other posters. Then if it didn’t fit he would change his mind.

Caps asked questions at times that I felt he already knew the answers to. He exposed much of the corruption in Aruba…All the dirt on all the Ministers and bigwigs.

Both Caps and his friend Carlos Tromp were out to expose that Corruption. Read Caps early posts about the ICC. In the Hague I believe. He said this is the only way for the Family to get Justice for Natalee. I believe this was posted in January.

BTW…Caps posted that he was a Resident Alien, ie US Permanent Resident…his post tells me he is not…

Let me know when to start a new thread…Who is CapsLockWizard and what does he Know?

How am I doing Kermie?

Mum, I am not trying to be mean in any way or form, but right now is not the time to pull this on CAPS.  You'll just have to trust me on this one.  You have no idea, who he is, or what he is doing.  A few of us do.  please leave this off the pages.  Klaas i am asking you to please help before it all goes up in smoke for what maybe the last chance of getting answers.

Sure thing Hotshot...not quite in the dark as you think I am...an email or two should get the posts erased!!!!

[Nut44x4]

May I ask two questions????  First, if this was when Natalee's remains were found, does the $250,000.00 reward still stand???  And two, what about the tennis shoe?  Was it placed in the cage to implicate Joran???  That's all I want to know.

"I know nuzzing"