Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 - 11/24/08

[Keepthefaith]

I am so disappointed that people who claim to be for Natalee, Beth and Dave have gone to such an extreme to discredit the search for Natalee Holloway.  For one, John Silvetti is an honerable man and has a history of integrity.  Tim also.  These posts being thrown at him show a disparagable attempt to discredit not only John, but to bring forth unnecessary pain for people who truly love Natalee.  It wouldn't surprise me if these attempts to discredit have come from the same people who have used the internet to spread lies about Natalee, Beth or Dave's character.  It has already been proven that several misinformed postings have originated in Aruba as early as three days after Natalee went missing.  I know Kermit.  I know that recently her postings have been out of character.  I also know she has recently been laid off from her newspaper position.  I wish her luck in the future and I hope everyone remains patient with her thru this difficult time.  I got this from BestBuddy.  

I think you owe Kermit an apology. Kermit is backing up everything said.

Did you ever stop to think that just maybe these pics were not to be put on the internet??  That maybe, just maybe the USA needed this to finish their investigation?  That these people were here for the Holloways, and now they will be implicated also?  Yes, there are ziplock bags, good.  like we didn't already know this?  Do you think they were there for a joyride?  I dont think so.  Kermit is going to need to apologise to a few people before this week is through.  CAPS being one of them.

I'm not understanding.If you've done nothing wrong you won't be implicated!

[Keepthefaith]

Did I understand Kermit to say that it was not Kyle that turned any of the 6 pictures over to the FBI that were sent by the FBI to Robin?  If not who?  If it were Silvetti, why would he turn over just a portion of the pictues,  and why would he not turn over the tapes and anything else he had acquired.  The log book?  Why??

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

As you know more then i Hotshot.Which of these statements are untrue.

[Tamikosmom]

And why hasn't Jossy Mansur ever answered anything regarding the rocks? When he was he just shrugged again as usual.

This alone should be easy for him to find out about. But he didn't.

Frank

Did it every occur to you that maybe ... just maybe the activity at the rocks were unrelated to the Natalee Holloway case.  Think about it.  A coverup usually implies that it does not take place out in the open for all to observe ... for all to videotape ... for call to take pictures.

Jossy Mansur has done more for the cause of justice for Natalee Holloway that any other person on that island.  He has not only put his personal safety on the line ... he has risked his livelihood.

Janet

________


Amigoe, April 4, 2007: Diario turns to Queen

ORANJESTAD - In an open letter, staff and management of the morning paper Diario have asked the Queen’s attention for the commercial boycott called by the MEP and her leader, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber.

MEP demanded the owner and also director and chief editor Jossy Mansur to publicly apologize to MEP and premier Oduber for all the articles he has published with the intention to damage the reputation of the government and MEP. Mansur has till last Monday to do this, otherwise, the MEP will announce a boycott against Diario.

Since Mansur ignored MEP’s ultimatum, the party decided on a total boycott of the newspaper. No information must be given to Diario. MEP-member had to cancel their subscription as per immediate.. They are also not allowed to buy the paper separately. They cannot place ads in the Diario That’s the reason for Diario’s letter to the Queen. He expressed his concern in this letter and asks the Queen to ’safeguard our constitutional rights’.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/04/06/aruba-hypocrites-mep-oduber-call-for-call-for-boycott-of-diario/


Amigoe, June 29, 2007: Oduber looses case against Diario

“I have lost enough time in this case already. It has become clear to me that everybody can publish anything they want about the government, and not be prosecuted. We have actually been outlawed.”

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/29/aruban-prime-minister-in-defeat-still-does-not-understand-freedom-of-the-press-oduber-loses-to-diario/

[bleachedblack]

Interesting question regarding donations.Who accepted and was accounting for the donations regarding the search?How long did they continue to accept donations?Did they accept donations knowing they weren't searching any longer?These questions may be relevant or not..Depending on who was taking the donations..Anyone know??

I don't know but I remember feeling uneasy about the way Silvetti's sister was begging for donations at BFN when they were actually packing up and leaving. 

Posted by LegallyLex:

It is with sadness that I am reporting to everyone that the Persistence leaves Aruba tomorrow heading for home. As you are aware, the side scan sonar search is complete. There are many many targets for the ROV to look at. Sadly, this will not happen with the Persistence. The main reason is the lack of funding. This combined with the winter rough weather makes it difficult. John and the crew thank all of your for your help and many blessings and prayers you have provided. Please continue these prayers until the Persistence and crew makes it back to port in New Iberia.

I don’t know what to say! Everyone has tried. I urge you to continue to try to obtain donations so that a boat and ROV can go back and dive all the targets that the Persistence has collected. The feelings that John and the crew have are so mixed right now. I can only imagine… In any event, please continue with trying to get donations for the finishing of this search. I know I am… I will not give up.

Thanks everyone! You are the best!

http://blogsfornatalee.com/2008/03/01/the-rv-persistence-to-leave-aruba/

[Frank]

Tamikosmom,

As I've written before, he has done alot, and I've recognized him for that. Yet it wasn't until the Joran interview did Aruba get mad, now he says they are indifferent? He runs the largest newspaper, has spent more time taking on Tacopina than he has Paulus van der sloot.

As for his life being in jeopardy, did you ever think that is an excuse and may also not be true? I cannot believe if his life was not in jeopardy before, it is now?

My point is not give even people who have seemed to support Natalee a pass until she comes home, I don't care who it is including Beth.

Until Natalee can come home, I think it's just not time to thank anyone yet, especially Jossy. He has written with passion, but has he really done any investigative work, at all?

[SS]

I am so disappointed that people who claim to be for Natalee, Beth and Dave have gone to such an extreme to discredit the search for Natalee Holloway.  For one, John Silvetti is an honerable man and has a history of integrity.  Tim also.  These posts being thrown at him show a disparagable attempt to discredit not only John, but to bring forth unnecessary pain for people who truly love Natalee.  It wouldn't surprise me if these attempts to discredit have come from the same people who have used the internet to spread lies about Natalee, Beth or Dave's character.  It has already been proven that several misinformed postings have originated in Aruba as early as three days after Natalee went missing.  I know Kermit.  I know that recently her postings have been out of character.  I also know she has recently been laid off from her newspaper position.  I wish her luck in the future and I hope everyone remains patient with her thru this difficult time.  I got this from BestBuddy.  

I think you owe Kermit an apology. Kermit is backing up everything said.

Did you ever stop to think that just maybe these pics were not to be put on the internet??  That maybe, just maybe the USA needed this to finish their investigation?  That these people were here for the Holloways, and now they will be implicated also?  Yes, there are ziplock bags, good.  like we didn't already know this?  Do you think they were there for a joyride?  I dont think so.  Kermit is going to need to apologise to a few people before this week is through.  CAPS being one of them.

Hotshot - I have always been a Caps supporter and I have been in several scraps protecting him.  Kermit said tonight that Caps wasn't working for John Silvetti, and I was glad to hear that.  I'm not sure what you mean about an investigation in the USA.  It seems to me that everything had come to a stop.  Jossy never followed through with his promised three more parts in Diario last September, DeVries once again didn't present enough evidence for any kind of an arrest, and the witnesses had been rejected by Mos.  Mos has been planning to close the investigation in five weeks.  Greta seems to be the only one who is doing anything right now.  Could you fill us in or give us some kind of an idea about another investigation?

[Tamikosmom]

And why hasn't Jossy Mansur ever answered anything regarding the rocks? When he was he just shrugged again as usual.

This alone should be easy for him to find out about. But he didn't.

Frank

Did it every occur to you that maybe ... just maybe the activity at the rocks were unrelated to the Natalee Holloway case.  Think about it.  A coverup usually implies that it does not take place out in the open for all to observe ... for all to videotape ... for call to take pictures.

Jossy Mansur has done more for the cause of justice for Natalee Holloway that any other person on that island.  He has not only put his personal safety on the line ... he has risked his livelihood.

Janet

________


Amigoe, April 4, 2007: Diario turns to Queen

ORANJESTAD - In an open letter, staff and management of the morning paper Diario have asked the Queen’s attention for the commercial boycott called by the MEP and her leader, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber.

MEP demanded the owner and also director and chief editor Jossy Mansur to publicly apologize to MEP and premier Oduber for all the articles he has published with the intention to damage the reputation of the government and MEP. Mansur has till last Monday to do this, otherwise, the MEP will announce a boycott against Diario.

Since Mansur ignored MEP’s ultimatum, the party decided on a total boycott of the newspaper. No information must be given to Diario. MEP-member had to cancel their subscription as per immediate.. They are also not allowed to buy the paper separately. They cannot place ads in the Diario That’s the reason for Diario’s letter to the Queen. He expressed his concern in this letter and asks the Queen to ’safeguard our constitutional rights’.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/04/06/aruba-hypocrites-mep-oduber-call-for-call-for-boycott-of-diario/


Amigoe, June 29, 2007: Oduber looses case against Diario

“I have lost enough time in this case already. It has become clear to me that everybody can publish anything they want about the government, and not be prosecuted. We have actually been outlawed.”

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/29/aruban-prime-minister-in-defeat-still-does-not-understand-freedom-of-the-press-oduber-loses-to-diario/

I may not agree with Jossy regarding "Karin and Jan" but the rest ...

Janet
______

Diario Editorial: A TRAITOR AND HIS ANTI-ARUBAN GOVERNMENT … Anti-American too

“What did Nel’s government do in the case of Natalee? Hide their heads in a hole like ostriches so as not to see the truth of what was happening, try to fire Jan and Karin because they did not belong to the group of political yes-men of his government; put the interest for American tourism money above the value of a human life; try to throw the blame on the family of the girl that disappeared, instead of going all-out against the three suspects who are responsible for the bad name Aruba got in other countries …”

We can no longer say that! Now our island has become, in the hands of Nel Oduber and his anti-Aruban and anti-American government, an island of the abuse of power, of nepotism, of favors to the small group of privileged MEP fanatics, and political persecution against the rest of the population that do not subject themselves to his amens!

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/04/16/diario-editorial-a-traitor-and-his-anti-aruban-government-anti-american-too/

[WhiskeyGirl]

Interesting question regarding donations.Who accepted and was accounting for the donations regarding the search?How long did they continue to accept donations?Did they accept donations knowing they weren't searching any longer?These questions may be relevant or not..Depending on who was taking the donations..Anyone know??

I don't know but I remember feeling uneasy about the way Silvetti's sister was begging for donations at BFN when they were actually packing up and leaving. 

IIRC, the donations that I am aware of went through TES, earmarked for the NH search.  Perhaps those donations were to help defray the cost of TES.  I am not aware of other donation requests.  From what I remember, Tim arriving in Aruba came as a surprise to many.  imho

[Hotshot]

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS  prove it
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008  prove it
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.  prove it
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.  prove it
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.  prove it
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.  prove it
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.  prove it
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?


------------------------------------------------------------

As you know more then i Hotshot.Which of these statements are untrue.

Haven't we always said here that if you are going to post something as a fact, we need to back it up with something?  Check it once, check it twice, then post?  Kermit may have said these things, I am not arguing the point that things did or didn't happen.  I am saying that maybe there were reasons for things to happen the way they did.  Not talking about the above mentioned stuff.  Maybe the only way to get closure to this family, was to do some things not so upto aruba standards.  I am still talking about the pics she has posted.  I don't know what those people did in their private lives, Kyle, John.....  I am talking about the case.  Could care less if they went bankrupt, then tried to make it back.  Its not my business, nor is it any of anyone elses.....  It does not relate to this case, it does not relate to Natalee.
"Off to my meeting"!

[bleachedblack]

I am so disappointed that people who claim to be for Natalee, Beth and Dave have gone to such an extreme to discredit the search for Natalee Holloway.  For one, John Silvetti is an honerable man and has a history of integrity.  Tim also.  These posts being thrown at him show a disparagable attempt to discredit not only John, but to bring forth unnecessary pain for people who truly love Natalee.  It wouldn't surprise me if these attempts to discredit have come from the same people who have used the internet to spread lies about Natalee, Beth or Dave's character.  It has already been proven that several misinformed postings have originated in Aruba as early as three days after Natalee went missing.  I know Kermit.  I know that recently her postings have been out of character.  I also know she has recently been laid off from her newspaper position.  I wish her luck in the future and I hope everyone remains patient with her thru this difficult time.  I got this from BestBuddy. 

This is a very unfair post Hotshot. You are entitled to your opinions, though I think at this point you are choosing to overlook some important new information. But you have revealed at least 3 personal facts regarding Kermit and I am sure had someone done this to you would would really be HOT! It was wrong. From what I have seen from you in the past, while your intentions may be good, your judgement is not.

[AZSunny]

I am so disappointed that people who claim to be for Natalee, Beth and Dave have gone to such an extreme to discredit the search for Natalee Holloway.  For one, John Silvetti is an honerable man and has a history of integrity.  Tim also.  These posts being thrown at him show a disparagable attempt to discredit not only John, but to bring forth unnecessary pain for people who truly love Natalee.  It wouldn't surprise me if these attempts to discredit have come from the same people who have used the internet to spread lies about Natalee, Beth or Dave's character.  It has already been proven that several misinformed postings have originated in Aruba as early as three days after Natalee went missing.  I know Kermit.  I know that recently her postings have been out of character.  I also know she has recently been laid off from her newspaper position.  I wish her luck in the future and I hope everyone remains patient with her thru this difficult time.  I got this from BestBuddy.  

I think you owe Kermit an apology. Kermit is backing up everything said.

Did you ever stop to think that just maybe these pics were not to be put on the internet??  That maybe, just maybe the USA needed this to finish their investigation?  That these people were here for the Holloways, and now they will be implicated also?  Yes, there are ziplock bags, good.  like we didn't already know this?  Do you think they were there for a joyride?  I dont think so.  Kermit is going to need to apologise to a few people before this week is through.  CAPS being one of them.

Hotshot - I have always been a Caps supporter and I have been in several scraps protecting him.  Kermit said tonight that Caps wasn't working for John Silvetti, and I was glad to hear that.  I'm not sure what you mean about an investigation in the USA.  It seems to me that everything had come to a stop.  Jossy never followed through with his promised three more parts in Diario last September, DeVries once again didn't present enough evidence for any kind of an arrest, and the witnesses had been rejected by Mos.  Mos has been planning to close the investigation in five weeks.  Greta seems to be the only one who is doing anything right now.  Could you fill us in or give us some kind of an idea about another investigation?

AND Hotshot, how could the USA complete their 'investigation' if they were never given ALL of the pictures until recently to see what the ALE took and DID NOT TEST.

[wreck]

I think some people are reluctant to accept that perhaps they were duped as well.

[BTgirl]

Y'all please bear with me because I just got home from work, haven't had time to read back, and I'm sure I'm missing a lot. However, I thought Kermit was waiting for permission from someone to post those pics. If Kermit did wait for permission from whomever needed to give it, then would posting the pics actually impede any investigation?

TY anyone who can straighten me out on this.

[wreck]

Y'all please bear with me because I just got home from work, haven't had time to read back, and I'm sure I'm missing a lot. However, I thought Kermit was waiting for permission from someone to post those pics. If Kermit did wait for permission from whomever needed to give it, then would posting the pics actually impede any investigation?

TY anyone who can straighten me out on this.

Not in my books!

[bleachedblack]

AZSunny wrote;

AND Hotshot, how could the USA complete their 'investigation' if they were never given ALL of the pictures until recently to see what the ALE took and DID NOT TEST.

Very good point.

[Magnolia]

All of those "Prove It" responses look mighty suspicious
to me.
It is like it is true but we have to come up with the proof.
A simple yes or no would have been much easier.

[wreck]

All of those "Prove It" responses look mighty suspicious
to me.
It is like it is true but we have to come up with the proof.
A simple yes or no would have been much easier.

A defense attorney's standard answer: "Of course my client is guilty - but you have to "prove it". That's okay for a court of law -- but horrendous in the "court of public opinion"

[Rob]

Hotshot - give the holier than thou[/u] a rest already - everyone knows what a stealth operator you are - especially me, as you worked with Gerold Dompig to gather files and names.

[Edward]

Taken names and numbers for the enemy ? wtf is that ? 

[johan555]

What i don't understand
They found the Cage 30/12/2007

And the next search is  on 01-07/2008  ? With only Aruban divers ?
Was they cage locked in the meantime ?
Why did they wait 8 days ?
Was that mos's decicion ?