Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 - 11/24/08

[AZSunny]

I have some feelings about the photographs and I wonder if others feel the same way that I do.  If Louis, John, and Kyle had hidden those photographs from ALE so that they could be turned over to Beth, Dave, and US authorities, it would have been a dishonest action, but it would have been in the best interests of everyone.  ALE has been so despicable from day one, and under handed handling of evidence would have been a double standard, but I would have supported it and jumped up and down with cheers.  Unfortunately, that isn't what happened.  The evidence was hidden from Beth, Dave, and the American public and the photographs were never even given to the FBI by members of the Persistence group.  When I hear that there is even a remote possibility that Louis Schafer sold those photographs for big bucks and that Kyle attempted to sell the photographs to networks last February, I just want to scream.  These actions are beyond explanation or justification.

There is absolutely no justification.

If he sold the pictures to a media they surely would have shown up.  Who else would he have sold them too? to ALE?? To PVDS and his cronies? I thought Kermit said he was planning a documentary.  Would he have used them there as the 'untold story'? Then cashed in on the documentary?  This is just so sick, you are right, there is no justification for this at all.

[Kermit]

I have some feelings about the photographs and I wonder if others feel the same way that I do.  If Louis, John, and Kyle had hidden those photographs from ALE so that they could be turned over to Beth, Dave, and US authorities, it would have been a dishonest action, but it would have been in the best interests of everyone.  ALE has been so despicable from day one, and under handed handling of evidence would have been a double standard, but I would have supported it and jumped up and down with cheers.  Unfortunately, that isn't what happened.  The evidence was hidden from Beth, Dave, and the American public and the photographs were never even given to the FBI by members of the Persistence group.  When I hear that there is even a remote possibility that Louis Schafer sold those photographs for big bucks and that Kyle attempted to sell the photographs to networks last February, I just want to scream.  These actions are beyond explanation or justification.

Then why would they try to sell them?
See that is where it didn't serve any search or investigation.

[ala_gunslinger]

I also stand with the Frog!

[Kermit]

Who does Tim Trahan work for?

He worked for Louis Schafer and he was let go back during July.

[Kermit]

Interesting question regarding donations.Who accepted and was accounting for the donations regarding the search?How long did they continue to accept donations?Did they accept donations knowing they weren't searching any longer?These questions may be relevant or not..Depending on who was taking the donations..Anyone know??

I don't know but I remember feeling uneasy about the way Silvetti's sister was begging for donations at BFN when they were actually packing up and leaving. 

I know a LOT of good people donated.
My own brother donated and he isn't involved in this investigation at all.

[BTgirl]

I am so disappointed that people who claim to be for Natalee, Beth and Dave have gone to such an extreme to discredit the search for Natalee Holloway.  For one, John Silvetti is an honerable man and has a history of integrity.  Tim also.  These posts being thrown at him show a disparagable attempt to discredit not only John, but to bring forth unnecessary pain for people who truly love Natalee.  It wouldn't surprise me if these attempts to discredit have come from the same people who have used the internet to spread lies about Natalee, Beth or Dave's character.  It has already been proven that several misinformed postings have originated in Aruba as early as three days after Natalee went missing.  I know Kermit.  I know that recently her postings have been out of character.  I also know she has recently been laid off from her newspaper position.  I wish her luck in the future and I hope everyone remains patient with her thru this difficult time.  I got this from BestBuddy.  

HotShot,
I mean no disrespect to you, but your friend is completely wrong. I do not even work for a newspaper.
  AND she does not KNOW KERMIT!

She and Ringo were buddies and they were the ones that went to Aruba with you and captured the photos of the 'Lions Den' which Ringo posted at natalee.net and also SM. When Ringo started telling people he was going to expose something, then he disappeared and started his secret site and Bestbuddy moved to Mississippi with her husband from California. Why don't you guys spend your time discussing pertenant details of the case rather then make up lies about me?

And Kermit - I always thought you were a boy frog. I mean, what about you and Miss Piggy??? 

[Magnolia]

Kermit,
Isn't Hotshot "Kathy" that was friends with Ringo and Best Buddy?

[Keepthefaith]

Hotshot - give the holier than thou[/u] a rest already - everyone knows what a stealth operator you are - especially me, as you worked with Gerold Dompig to gather files and names.

Is this "TRUE" Hotshot?Did you work for Dompig?Yes or No?

Do you know of this as well Kermit??

[Kermit]

The more I look, the more I think this is John Silvetti and if it is Silvetti, why would Kyle lie?

I have been calling Kyle a "dupee" instead of a "dupor" the past several days. I was dead wrong! Maybe he didn't start out like that -- but it is quite evident now. I think a few people here owe Kermit an apology.

Thank you wreck.
I honestly feel the same way you all do. NO need for any apologies to me.

[Blue Moon]

I just got home from grocery.  I have a hurting in the pit of my stomach over this for Beth and Dave and their families.  Very appreciative of Kermit coming forward and doing the right thing.  Only thing I can say about OE (Kyle) is I really believe that he named his baby after Natalee and I feel he really cared for them or he would not have done that.  I just hope looking at his little girl changed his heart about all that has been brought forward today.

[Kermit]

Kermit,
Isn't Hotshot "Kathy" that was friends with Ringo and Best Buddy?

Yes. I posted a picture of Trixie, (akaMcBlondland) and Bestbuddy and Kathy with Tim Miller in Aruba together on SM one time.

[Kermit]

I am so disappointed that people who claim to be for Natalee, Beth and Dave have gone to such an extreme to discredit the search for Natalee Holloway.  For one, John Silvetti is an honerable man and has a history of integrity.  Tim also.  These posts being thrown at him show a disparagable attempt to discredit not only John, but to bring forth unnecessary pain for people who truly love Natalee.  It wouldn't surprise me if these attempts to discredit have come from the same people who have used the internet to spread lies about Natalee, Beth or Dave's character.  It has already been proven that several misinformed postings have originated in Aruba as early as three days after Natalee went missing.  I know Kermit.  I know that recently her postings have been out of character.  I also know she has recently been laid off from her newspaper position.  I wish her luck in the future and I hope everyone remains patient with her thru this difficult time.  I got this from BestBuddy.  

HotShot,
I mean no disrespect to you, but your friend is completely wrong. I do not even work for a newspaper.
  AND she does not KNOW KERMIT!

She and Ringo were buddies and they were the ones that went to Aruba with you and captured the photos of the 'Lions Den' which Ringo posted at natalee.net and also SM. When Ringo started telling people he was going to expose something, then he disappeared and started his secret site and Bestbuddy moved to Mississippi with her husband from California. Why don't you guys spend your time discussing pertenant details of the case rather then make up lies about me?

And Kermit - I always thought you were a boy frog. I mean, what about you and Miss Piggy??? 

ROFLMAO!
This is the first post that made me laugh today.
Thank you.

[Magnolia]

Kermit,
Isn't Hotshot "Kathy" that was friends with Ringo and Best Buddy?

Yes. I posted a picture of Trixie, (akaMcBlondland) and Bestbuddy and Kathy with Tim Miller in Aruba together on SM one time.

Thank you....'nuff said.

[Kermit]

I also stand with the Frog!

Thank you gunslinger.
I hope that finally we can get the truth exposed and hope that those who are corrupt will be punished.

[Tamikosmom]

I have some feelings about the photographs and I wonder if others feel the same way that I do.  If Louis, John, and Kyle had hidden those photographs from ALE so that they could be turned over to Beth, Dave, and US authorities, it would have been a dishonest action, but it would have been in the best interests of everyone.  ALE has been so despicable from day one, and under handed handling of evidence would have been a double standard, but I would have supported it and jumped up and down with cheers.  Unfortunately, that isn't what happened.  The evidence was hidden from Beth, Dave, and the American public and the photographs were never even given to the FBI by members of the Persistence group.  When I hear that there is even a remote possibility that Louis Schafer sold those photographs for big bucks and that Kyle attempted to sell the photographs to networks last February, I just want to scream.  These actions are beyond explanation or justification.

I wish Kyle would respond to these allegations.

Thanks SS.

Janet

[Kermit]

Kermit,
Isn't Hotshot "Kathy" that was friends with Ringo and Best Buddy?

Yes. I posted a picture of Trixie, (akaMcBlondland) and Bestbuddy and Kathy with Tim Miller in Aruba together on SM one time.

Thank you....'nuff said.

 

[Blonde]

I am so disappointed that people who claim to be for Natalee, Beth and Dave have gone to such an extreme to discredit the search for Natalee Holloway.  For one, John Silvetti is an honerable man and has a history of integrity.  Tim also.  These posts being thrown at him show a disparagable attempt to discredit not only John, but to bring forth unnecessary pain for people who truly love Natalee.  It wouldn't surprise me if these attempts to discredit have come from the same people who have used the internet to spread lies about Natalee, Beth or Dave's character.  It has already been proven that several misinformed postings have originated in Aruba as early as three days after Natalee went missing.  I know Kermit.  I know that recently her postings have been out of character.  I also know she has recently been laid off from her newspaper position.  I wish her luck in the future and I hope everyone remains patient with her thru this difficult time.  I got this from BestBuddy.  

I think you owe Kermit an apology. Kermit is backing up everything said.

Did you ever stop to think that just maybe these pics were not to be put on the internet??  That maybe, just maybe the USA needed this to finish their investigation?  That these people were here for the Holloways, and now they will be implicated also?  Yes, there are ziplock bags, good.  like we didn't already know this?  Do you think they were there for a joyride?  I dont think so.  Kermit is going to need to apologise to a few people before this week is through.  CAPS being one of them.

Hotshot - I have always been a Caps supporter and I have been in several scraps protecting him.  Kermit said tonight that Caps wasn't working for John Silvetti, and I was glad to hear that.  I'm not sure what you mean about an investigation in the USA.  It seems to me that everything had come to a stop.  Jossy never followed through with his promised three more parts in Diario last September, DeVries once again didn't present enough evidence for any kind of an arrest, and the witnesses had been rejected by Mos.  Mos has been planning to close the investigation in five weeks.  Greta seems to be the only one who is doing anything right now.  Could you fill us in or give us some kind of an idea about another investigation?

AND Hotshot, how could the USA complete their 'investigation' if they were never given ALL of the pictures until recently to see what the ALE took and DID NOT TEST.

I GUESS IT WAS BECAUSE kYLE WAS HOLDING ON TO A FEW PICTURES,THAT THE ROV HAD TAKEN.
ALE DIDN'T KNOW  THAT KYLE HAD PICTURES BAGGED WITH EVIDENCE.BUT ALE HAS THEM

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit ... why would Kyle share all this incriminating explosive information with you?

If these allegations are confirmed ... it is such a betrayal to all who sacrificially donated their time, effort and monies are behalf of the Persistence's search for Natalee Holloway.

Janet

[A's Fever]

wasn't there a cage missing near the FM's hut ?

Yes but they are saying it was much smaller like this one.
Wonder if this is the blue tarp?

There was also that blue tarp found on remote rocks by a tourist taking pictures.  Anyone remember that, very early on? We wondered if perhaps Natalee was under that tarp . . .

[WhiskeyGirl]

This all sounds great, but I have some lingering questions, in bold and blue below.

Did I understand Kermit to say that it was not Kyle that turned any of the 6 pictures over to the FBI that were sent by the FBI to Robin?  If not who?  If it were Silvetti, why would he turn over just a portion of the pictues,  and why would he not turn over the tapes and anything else he had acquired.  The log book?  Why??

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS

What images?  The mapping?  The cage?  Who bought them and for how much?  How does one know this?  Where is it documented, was someone bragging?

What was his motivation for selling them?
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008

What images?  The mapping?  The cage?  Who did he offer them to?  Wasn't he concerned with copyright?  How does one know this?  Where is it documented?  Was he successful, and if so, who bought them and for how much?

What was his motivation for selling them?
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.

How does one know this?  Real estate agents?  Gossip?  ALE / media following him around?  Did he open that office?  If not, why not?  Why would he want to open an office in Aruba? 

If not an office, maybe he was looking for a retirement property?
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.

I'm not tracking with this one at all.  Not to be a pain, please explain, maybe there are some examples.  Didn't John Silvetti have a model of the fish trap built to scan?  Thus ensure a better model for the radar readings?  What would his motivation be?  Where does this piece of information come from? 
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.

I think there are some news articles that suggest the company had problems earlier in 2007.  Isn't it possible this would have happened without anyone going to Aruba?  It seems like a lot of companies have been having problems.  What would be the motivation for ANY reorganization?  This January 2008 reorg?
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.

What is Kyles motivation for getting it out to Beth and the public?  How would anyone know that he didn't?  What would his motivation for stalling, lies, threatening be?  Why? 

Isn't it possible that Kyle wasn't kept in the loop?  Isn't it possible that he didn't/doesn't know everyones motivation?  Maybe he made some guesses?
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.

How does anyone know this for certain?  And, be certain that it may be information kept under lock and key for a reason?  Motivation?
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

Why indeed?  How can it be that all of these people are ignorant?

I'd like a few more validations of any facts before I make up my mind.

just my humble opinions