Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 - 11/24/08

[bulldog]

No Kermit.  I think having this information makes it worse!  How can we find peace in knowing they have this evidence and still no arrests have been made??  Ugh!! 
I also don't understand why they are going to these lengths to protect the lil scumbag?   

[johan555]

Were the body parts send to the Netherlands ?

[SS]

Will having these pictures now, force ALE to admit that they do have evidence from the trap?  They can't deny now that nothing was in there.

[BTgirl]

So where are Natalee's remains now? With ALE or Schaefer (or both?)

THANK-YOU, KERMIT!!!

blah and joran,

Forensic's should have been done.
But keep in mind, Tim Miller saw it and said, "It looks like a skull".

Ok Kermit I'm missing something here, havent read here in quite a while.

Spell it out in black and white - what does the posts you made today prove and how do they prove it?

Hi blah.

The Aruban Divers ONLY took the evidence.
Tim Miller was off the ship.
They retrieved the evidence from the cage. The cage that we were told had nothing, remember.
Then 6 photos were uploaded (given to Dave by FBI) his wife, Robin posted them on her site.
OE accused Red of posting them.
These photos were NOT turned over to the FBI until recently and not by OE.
The ship asked for donations to continue the search for Natalee and then returned home.
John Silvetti returned to Aruba to set up a business in Aruba with South America.

Seems like a cover-up to me when the authorities don't turn over evidence in their possession.
Maybe not???

Hi Kermit. I know I'm reading something the wrong way, but if the photos were given to Dave by the FBI, then why did someone need to give them back to the FBI?

TY

[Lifesong]

Kermit,

I'm confused about OE's behavior as it relates to these additional pictures.  He didn't turn them over to the FBI, but he expressed his concern to private eye (Beth's brother) that ALE hadn't turned the correct fabric - the denim - over to be tested.

Is this correct?  I just don't understand that.   

Thanks!

Yes, he was very concerned when Mos gave his public message that the material didn't match.
It appears that the word used by MOS was exactly what the FBI said in their report, therefore,
not the blue denium. That is why private eye was asking OE about it?

Ahhh.... private eye brought it up to OE, not the other way around.  Makes more sense, thank you. 

FWIW, I think you've done the right thing Kermit, and I, for one, thank you.  We've all worked too hard and worried too much to not shed a little light on a truth when we're fortunate enough to find one.  The truth has been all too elusive.

I stand with the girl.

[Keepthefaith]

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/











January 7 2008 Aruban dive - inside of trap after evidence collection
 






The following are items can be identified from the pictures above

DID you notice:
*blue denim like fabric - confirmed by Hans Mos and Dolph Richardson
*skull/rock/sponge looking item
*blue tarp outside of cage this suggests savenging - confirmed by Hans Mos and Dolph Richardson
* raised sandbar that came to rest on items beneath it


QUESTIONS YOU SHOULD BE ASKING
The fbi report did not mention the blue denim fabric. Did they sample something different then what  ONLY ARUBAN DIVERS collected ON JAN. 7th?
THE ARUBAN divers took it all.

Remember, the Aruban investigators turned blood into chocolate!

The Aruban divers were the ONLY divers on the Jan. 7th dive.
Tim Miller was ushered off the boat.
The ROV unbeknown to the divers was filming.
The blue fabric swayed in the current as did another bag containing something very light weight.
The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.


This is a picture from Natalee standing on the beach and rotated and scaled to the image to matching the body form inside the trap. It matches the end of the skirt identically to what was seen in the cage

Thanx Kermit.Just bringin it forward so people can understand..

[wreck]

Kermit,

Is this why John Q. Kelly said that Natalee's body was unrecoverable?  Because the officials of Aruba took everything and will never own up to it?

That is my assumption too.

So, how long have JQK and the family been clued in to what REALLY happened? I'm guessing late may or June by what PI was asking.

[always 1]

KERMIT, was any of Natalee's blouse fabric ever found???

[Tamikosmom]

Were did they found this cage ?

In the Dutch part of the ocean ?

It wasn't very far off the coast of Aruba. Remember OE said he saw the Aruban Coast diver boat there when he was off shore one time. It concerned him. So you could see where the dive took place from shore, not that far off shore.

Kyle's account of November 20, 2008 is ... for the most part ... consistent with his account of March 8, 2008.

Janet

__________


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #662 on: November 20, 2008, 09:21:05 PM »

I got off the boat for 4 nights from the 10-14th of Jan for some much needed R&R.  I was in close communication with the boat and continued to post updates.  I didn't need to broadcast my presence on the island at the time.  I observed the vessel at or very near the location on the 11th and 12th for 42 and 45 minutes respectively.  I questioned the possibility of unknown diving ops taking place.  The talks about recovering the trap ceased around that time as well.  My concern was the trap was being cleaned up (legitimately or otherwise), but I have no evidence of this either way as we never revisited the site.


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #740 on: March 18, 2008, 04:22:38 PM »

On the issue of Trap recovery:

-After the visual inspection on 30-Dec, the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap.  There were talks about getting the proper equipment on board the Persistence such as a suction-recovery system to sift small items from the sand.  The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.

-Just after the 30th of Dec we were told it would take about 10-14 days to bring in a Dutch team capable of processing an underwater site. 

-Jan 9th through 13th I was off the boat and staying at the Holiday Inn for a much-needed break.  I walked up and down the beach many times a day.  On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site.  I talked to a wind surfer instructor who claims to be at the beach every day for 8 years.  He said the boat always comes up the shore just south of where we were standing, turns away and heads offshore.  He said it never goes where it was and has never seen it stop.

The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day.  I triangulated it's position the best I could using a wrist watch and a few points on land.  It was right on the target location based on the measurements.

-When I returned to the Persistence (14-Jan) there were no more talks about a trap recovery.  When I pressed the issue, I was told "they're no longer interested in the trap or it's recovery".

-I raised the issue again in early February and the response was the same - no interest about the trap and no plans to recover.

I assume one of three scenarios: 1) They genuinely aren't interested in the trap, 2) They are/were interested and will take care of it themselves (or have already done so) and don't want us informed or involved, or 3) They already recovered the trap (or processed the site) and don't want us to know for whatever reason, good or otherwise.

[Kermit]

I have to take a call.

[blah]

So where/what in those pictures is "the shit"

Deepak said if they find the body then they will see that shit?

[bleachedblack]

Jeans are a common piece of clothing, and therefore denim is not a rare material to be found in the event those that used this post office placed the remains of someone in it from a drug deal gone wrong? A warning to anyone that might be tempted to steal from the trap if drugs were the content....

That might be true, but look at the photo and the match to Natalee from the skull to the piece of blue material.
Is that a coincidence? I don't know. Must be a lot of druggies in jeans that size then with a small skull.

That is true the size of the skull appears to match very closely in the overlay, and the amount of denim remaining is small more like a skirt size from what I can see than a whole pair of pants. It is likely that the fabric would not have remained if they were indeed pants and (sorry for this graphic) the lower portion of the body was scavenged by predators.

[Blue Moon]

Were did they found this cage ?

In the Dutch part of the ocean ?

It wasn't very far off the coast of Aruba. Remember OE said he saw the Aruban Coast diver boat there when he was off shore one time. It concerned him. So you could see where the dive took place from shore, not that far off shore.

OE said he was staying at Holiday Inn and walking on the beach when he saw the boat at the dive site. Must be near there!

Remember, also, that Paulus and Anita were seen (and I think photographed) standing on the beach watching this also.  Was Paulus pulling the strings on this search?

[bleachedblack]

what is that Flat part on the skull ?

Is that a missing part of skull?

[bleachedblack]

So where/what in those pictures is "the shit"

Deepak said if they find the body then they will see that shit?

Possibly the missing part of skull? This could indicate trauma to the skull. Blunt force trauma, such as from a bat? It could also have been a very major fall or even a gunshot.

[SS]

So where/what in those pictures is "the shit"

Deepak said if they find the body then they will see that shit?

Maybe a head injury that would match the damaged skull?

[cajun miracle]

I want to know WHO has these remains? WHO, WHO, WHO? ALE can't say that there was none, so they are now caught and responsible.

[BUCKSHOT]

Were did they found this cage ?

In the Dutch part of the ocean ?

It wasn't very far off the coast of Aruba. Remember OE said he saw the Aruban Coast diver boat there when he was off shore one time. It concerned him. So you could see where the dive took place from shore, not that far off shore.

OE said he was staying at Holiday Inn and walking on the beach when he saw the boat at the dive site. Must be near there!

Remember, also, that Paulus and Anita were seen (and I think photographed) standing on the beach watching this also.  Was Paulus pulling the strings on this search?

Anyone else feel the same way--
(1) Kermit's information reveals a cover-up. We already knew they were corrupt. They only were lead to the last piece of evidence that they had to cover-up.
(2) We still do not know what happened from CnC to Beth's arrival. Only speculate, deduce, and conclude based off of common sense, clues, and inconsistencies.

[blah]

How big are the squares in the mesh of that trap?  If they are about 2 inches, that "skull" would only be about 6 inches.  If they are 3 inches, the skull would be about 9 inches. 

How big would Natalee's skull be?

[johan555]

Kermit
i see on the pics different Dates can you explain that ?