Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 - 11/24/08

[klaasend]

I'm scratching my head.   

[Edward]

If Greta had anything I would think Joran would already be in jail..
You backeasters will know before I do I suppose..

jmho

[wreck]

What i don't understand
They found the Cage 30/12/2007

And the next search is  on 01-07/2008  ? With only Aruban divers ?
Was they cage locked in the meantime ?
Why did they wait 8 days ?
Was that mos's decicion ?

They had to get Tim Miller off the ship.

[Magnolia]

Hotshot - give the holier than thou[/u] a rest already - everyone knows what a stealth operator you are - especially me, as you worked with Gerold Dompig to gather files and names.

But Rob, it was all for the family.

[klaasend]

If Greta had anything I would think Joran would already be in jail..
You backeasters will know before I do I suppose..

jmho

Greta will be on at 10pm ET and 7pm PST.  We watch it together so they won't see it before those on the west coast.

[bleachedblack]

What i don't understand
They found the Cage 30/12/2007

And the next search is  on 01-07/2008  ? With only Aruban divers ?
Was they cage locked in the meantime ?
Why did they wait 8 days ?
Was that mos's decicion ?

They had to get Tim Miller off the ship.

....and what was the time frame Tim was gone to Nicaragua on the wild goose chase?

[johan555]

What i don't understand
They found the Cage 30/12/2007

And the next search is  on 01-07/2008  ? With only Aruban divers ?
Was they cage locked in the meantime ?
Why did they wait 8 days ?
Was that mos's decicion ?

They had to get Tim Miller off the ship.

Because ???????

[Edward]

What i don't understand
They found the Cage 30/12/2007

And the next search is  on 01-07/2008  ? With only Aruban divers ?
Was they cage locked in the meantime ?
Why did they wait 8 days ?
Was that mos's decicion ?

They Probably brought the sub out to take a look for themselves and to make a plan to get the evidence away .. They did not want any negative attention..   
When they found it..It should have happened then, quickly. Photos of close up and analyzed prior to the Yorubas touching anything..

[Keepthefaith]

Hotshot - give the holier than thou[/u] a rest already - everyone knows what a stealth operator you are - especially me, as you worked with Gerold Dompig to gather files and names.

Is this "TRUE" Hotshot?Did you work for Dompig?Yes or No?

[johan555]

What i don't understand
They found the Cage 30/12/2007

And the next search is  on 01-07/2008  ? With only Aruban divers ?
Was they cage locked in the meantime ?
Why did they wait 8 days ?
Was that mos's decicion ?

They Probably brought the sub out to take a look for themselves and to make a plan to get the evidence away .. They did not want any negative attention..   
When they found it..It should have happened then, quickly. Photos of close up and analyzed prior to the Yorubas touching anything..

the first day they already knew that it was a body .

[Blonde]

And why hasn't Jossy Mansur ever answered anything regarding the rocks? When he was he just shrugged again as usual.

This alone should be easy for him to find out about. But he didn't.

Frank

Did it every occur to you that maybe ... just maybe the activity at the rocks were unrelated to the Natalee Holloway case.  Think about it.  A coverup usually implies that it does not take place out in the open for all to observe ... for all to videotape ... for call to take pictures.

Jossy Mansur has done more for the cause of justice for Natalee Holloway that any other person on that island.  He has not only put his personal safety on the line ... he has risked his livelihood.

Janet

________


Amigoe, April 4, 2007: Diario turns to Queen

ORANJESTAD - In an open letter, staff and management of the morning paper Diario have asked the Queen’s attention for the commercial boycott called by the MEP and her leader, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber.

MEP demanded the owner and also director and chief editor Jossy Mansur to publicly apologize to MEP and premier Oduber for all the articles he has published with the intention to damage the reputation of the government and MEP. Mansur has till last Monday to do this, otherwise, the MEP will announce a boycott against Diario.

Since Mansur ignored MEP’s ultimatum, the party decided on a total boycott of the newspaper. No information must be given to Diario. MEP-member had to cancel their subscription as per immediate.. They are also not allowed to buy the paper separately. They cannot place ads in the Diario That’s the reason for Diario’s letter to the Queen. He expressed his concern in this letter and asks the Queen to ’safeguard our constitutional rights’.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/04/06/aruba-hypocrites-mep-oduber-call-for-call-for-boycott-of-diario/


Amigoe, June 29, 2007: Oduber looses case against Diario

“I have lost enough time in this case already. It has become clear to me that everybody can publish anything they want about the government, and not be prosecuted. We have actually been outlawed.”

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/29/aruban-prime-minister-in-defeat-still-does-not-understand-freedom-of-the-press-oduber-loses-to-diario/

 Right from the start I have always thought it was Natalee's  Crime Scene not a 7 year old boy no one ever reported lost.

[Keepthefaith]

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS  prove it
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008  prove it
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.  prove it
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.  prove it
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.  prove it
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.  prove it
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.  prove it
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?


------------------------------------------------------------

As you know more then i Hotshot.Which of these statements are untrue.

Haven't we always said here that if you are going to post something as a fact, we need to back it up with something?  Check it once, check it twice, then post?  Kermit may have said these things, I am not arguing the point that things did or didn't happen.  I am saying that maybe there were reasons for things to happen the way they did.  Not talking about the above mentioned stuff.  Maybe the only way to get closure to this family, was to do some things not so upto aruba standards.  I am still talking about the pics she has posted.  I don't know what those people did in their private lives, Kyle, John.....  I am talking about the case.  Could care less if they went bankrupt, then tried to make it back.  Its not my business, nor is it any of anyone elses.....  It does not relate to this case, it does not relate to Natalee.
"Off to my meeting"!

Why in quotes Hotshot??Important meeting?

[AZSunny]

Hotshot - give the holier than thou[/u] a rest already - everyone knows what a stealth operator you are - especially me, as you worked with Gerold Dompig to gather files and names.

 

[AZSunny]

If Greta had anything I would think Joran would already be in jail..
You backeasters will know before I do I suppose..

jmho

From what Greta says MOS hasn't even seen the info...isn't interested.

[Tamikosmom]

Tamikosmom,

As I've written before, he has done alot, and I've recognized him for that. Yet it wasn't until the Joran interview did Aruba get mad, now he says they are indifferent? He runs the largest newspaper, has spent more time taking on Tacopina than he has Paulus van der sloot.

As for his life being in jeopardy, did you ever think that is an excuse and may also not be true? I cannot believe if his life was not in jeopardy before, it is now?

My point is not give even people who have seemed to support Natalee a pass until she comes home, I don't care who it is including Beth.

Until Natalee can come home, I think it's just not time to thank anyone yet, especially Jossy. He has written with passion, but has he really done any investigative work, at all?

Hi Frank

Jossy is not an investigator ... he is an editor who used his connections in his attempt to investigation the corruption that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... attempt to keep the case from becoming yesterdays headlines.  It is more than any other Aruban has dared.  For the most part ... I believe he was right on.

Janet
_____

A REMINDER

'Scarborough Country' for August 26
updated 12:49 p.m. PT, Mon., Aug. 29, 2005

DANIELS:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
MANSUR:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9119491/


DANA PRETZER
July 23, 2007

Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.   I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/23/the-dana-pretzer-show-monday-july-23rd-2007-special-guests-larry-sinclair-jossy-mansur-ladonna-meredith-attorney-jay-paul-deratany/


DIARIO Aruba
April 26, 2006

Further, the gardener’s testimony stands as valid and concrete to this day. He confirmed this in front of a judge. He passed a lie detector test successfully! Nothing of what he has said has been contradicted with solid proof to this day.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2006_04_30_archive.html


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Feb. 16
updated 1:14 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 17, 2006

COSBY: … In the civil suit, it provided some nuggets of some of the information, and some of this hadn‘t really been highlighted before, Jossy. It said, “In the early hours of Monday morning”—this was when Natalee went missing—“Deepak methodically and uncharacteristically cleaned his silver Nissan car, claiming after the fact that it had bad ants in it.”

Had you heard that before, Jossy? And that, I think, is an interesting nugget.

MANSUR: Yes, ma‘am, we have heard it. We know that that early morning, they went into a total clean-up of the car. Witnesses, neighbors that live close to them testified to that. So the clean-up did take place.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11413381/


NANCY GRACE
Can Aruban Prosecutors Keep Joran Van Der Sloot in Jail?
Aired August 23, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": That`s what I understand, that this jogger also saw the same car parked at the same spot by the racquet club. However, he did call from a public telephone, and I don`t know whether the police can trace it or not. But according to information I have, they cannot.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/23/ng.01.html


NANCY GRACE
Latest in Search for Natalee Holloway
Aired October 4, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

GRACE: … Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html


'Scarborough Country' for August 26
updated 12:49 p.m. PT, Mon., Aug. 29, 2005

DANIELS:  Yes.  But I just can‘t get away from the fact that the Kalpoe brothers arrested today, Freddy arrested today.  It has to mean something.  There has to be a master plan here.  What are you hearing about that?
 
MANSUR:  Well, if there is a master plan, we will know about it soon enough.
 
What I do know is that Freddy was questioned at the beginning with relations to the Natalee Holloway case.  He offered an alibi, I believe, to protect Joran.  And then he was released.  And now he‘s arrested as a suspect of selling photographs.  Maybe they are aiming to get to him through this photo business back to the Holloway case.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9119491/


DANA PRETZER
December 14, 2006

DANA: When you look at this case, a question keeps coming up. I am looking at the picture on my PC. It is the alleged picture of a person in the casino with Natalee that looks a lot like Paul. Has there been any update on this issue?

JOSSY: There have not been any change of opinion. People, including people in the casino say that is Paul.


DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2006

MANSUR: It does look very familiar to what she was wearing, but I'm unable to confirm it, we would have to go search for the fabric itself which has disappeared since. Every piece of evidence or what appears to be evidence has disappeared or we never heard about it again.


DANA PRETZER
October 5, 2007

MANSUR: People thought Beth caused bad publicity for the island, but Beth is not at fault, it is the three suspects. If there's damage to the island it should be on the shoulders of the three suspects.


DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2006

MANSUR:  I do know what our reporters have been able to find, Lorenzo is a half brother of Joran. He has a boat. He lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned, but people mention his name quite often in regard to this case.

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18


NANCY GRACE
Search for Natalee Holloway
Aired July 29, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

GRACE: OK. Jossy, is there any way to tie in a white pick-up to this scenario?

MANSUR: Yes, ma`am, because there`s another witness that, before that, told someone that works at the hotels that he saw a white pick-up over there by the Holiday Inn, in which three persons were also in, all of them male, carrying what looked like the body of a girl, putting it in the back of the white pick-up and driving away with it.
 
GRACE: OK. So you`ve got a white pick-up at the Holiday Inn, where Natalee was staying. You`ve got a white pick-up at the landfill. Both eyewitnesses state that there were three individuals, I`m assuming male. But can they give an identification of Joran Van Der Sloot or the Kalpoe brothers?
 
MANSUR: None of them have given that kind of a description. They haven`t identified the three males. But it`s very important to note that the witness on the beach by the Holiday Inn has absolutely no knowledge of the witness over there to the east side of the island by the landfill or dump. They don't know each other, but still they give the same description of the same white pick-up.
 
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/29/ng.01.html


NANCY GRACE
Nancy Grace for July 26, 2005, CNNHN
Aired July 26, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


NANCY GRACE
Attorneys for chief suspect Joran Van Der Sloot`s appear to stall for time in the Natalee Holloway investigation on Aruba, as volunteer search teams begin to squabble and one even threatens a lawsuit against another.
Aired August 17, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": I don`t know what`s happening, but the gardener, the witness, did stand by his story. He did confirm in front of the judge, in front of the defense attorneys, in front of the suspects, that he recognized, and he even recognized two of the three suspects that were there. He hasn`t changed his story one bit.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/17/ng.01.html


NANCY GRACE
Nancy Grace for August 3, 2005, CNNHN
Aired August 3, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

GRACE: And Jossy, have you heard any information regarding a search for one of those little kiddie pools?
 
MANSUR: They have been searching for that. They have found one, and they`re concentrating on that area where this witness says that when they dumped the body, they covered it with some other bags and then put this little pool on it.
 
GRACE: OK, I`m sorry. I didn`t hear that. Repeat, Jossy.

MANSUR: They are searching where -- they did find this -- one of these pools, this pool, and they have been searching in that specific area because we have to remember that this garbage has been moved about quite a bit from that day on by big tractors and front-end loaders and whatever.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/03/ng.01.html

[SS]

I have some feelings about the photographs and I wonder if others feel the same way that I do.  If Louis, John, and Kyle had hidden those photographs from ALE so that they could be turned over to Beth, Dave, and US authorities, it would have been a dishonest action, but it would have been in the best interests of everyone.  ALE has been so despicable from day one, and under handed handling of evidence would have been a double standard, but I would have supported it and jumped up and down with cheers.  Unfortunately, that isn't what happened.  The evidence was hidden from Beth, Dave, and the American public and the photographs were never even given to the FBI by members of the Persistence group.  When I hear that there is even a remote possibility that Louis Schafer sold those photographs for big bucks and that Kyle attempted to sell the photographs to networks last February, I just want to scream.  These actions are beyond explanation or justification.

[Edward]

hmm.. Where was that submarine for the days between the trap being found by persistence and the time RayBan divers go to take the evidence out and hide it someplace. ?

[Magnolia]

I have some feelings about the photographs and I wonder if others feel the same way that I do.  If Louis, John, and Kyle had hidden those photographs from ALE so that they could be turned over to Beth, Dave, and US authorities, it would have been a dishonest action, but it would have been in the best interests of everyone.  ALE has been so despicable from day one, and under handed handling of evidence would have been a double standard, but I would have supported it and jumped up and down with cheers.  Unfortunately, that isn't what happened.  The evidence was hidden from Beth, Dave, and the American public and the photographs were never even given to the FBI by members of the Persistence group.  When I hear that there is even a remote possibility that Louis Schafer sold those photographs for big bucks and that Kyle attempted to sell the photographs to networks last February, I just want to scream.  These actions are beyond explanation or justification.

There is absolutely no justification.

[Kermit]

I am so disappointed that people who claim to be for Natalee, Beth and Dave have gone to such an extreme to discredit the search for Natalee Holloway.  For one, John Silvetti is an honerable man and has a history of integrity.  Tim also.  These posts being thrown at him show a disparagable attempt to discredit not only John, but to bring forth unnecessary pain for people who truly love Natalee.  It wouldn't surprise me if these attempts to discredit have come from the same people who have used the internet to spread lies about Natalee, Beth or Dave's character.  It has already been proven that several misinformed postings have originated in Aruba as early as three days after Natalee went missing.  I know Kermit.  I know that recently her postings have been out of character.  I also know she has recently been laid off from her newspaper position.  I wish her luck in the future and I hope everyone remains patient with her thru this difficult time.  I got this from BestBuddy.  

HotShot,
I mean no disrespect to you, but your friend is completely wrong. I do not even work for a newspaper.
  AND she does not KNOW KERMIT!

She and Ringo were buddies and they were the ones that went to Aruba with you and captured the photos of the 'Lions Den' which Ringo posted at natalee.net and also SM. When Ringo started telling people he was going to expose something, then he disappeared and started his secret site and Bestbuddy moved to Mississippi with her husband from California. Why don't you guys spend your time discussing pertenant details of the case rather then make up lies about me?

[ala_gunslinger]

What i don't understand
They found the Cage 30/12/2007

And the next search is  on 01-07/2008  ? With only Aruban divers ?
Was they cage locked in the meantime ?
Why did they wait 8 days ?
Was that mos's decicion ?

They had to get Tim Miller off the ship.

Because ???????

Because he was right!

Kyle was off ship as well...

They had to let the ruba divers from the Panther clean the cage, only to walk right into the trap.

Oh, hey all ya'll!

Gun