Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 - 11/26/08

[Dayhiker]

I disagree, I think Greta has done a major service for Natalee's family by flying half way around the world to do this interview. We don't know everything that was told to Greta by Joran, and we probably shouldn't or where's the leverage?

I agree with you Idstlou. Greta has kept the story in the national eye here and in holland and Aruba. People will be watching to see if Hans Mos investigates this, which he should regardless of whether he "thinks" Joran is telling the truth or not. It's a prosecutor's job, as has been said many times on Greta's show, to investigate every lead, starting with all of those mentioned bank accounts, e-mails, and phone records.

Keep your eyes on Mos, his reactions will be telling. If he comes up with an excuse not to investigate this he is more than likely trying to shut the case down again under Holland's or Aruba's orders. Or maybe the Mafia.

[Dayhiker]

Will HansMos investigate this story?
That will be very telling as to their willingness to want to solve this crime.

Bingo Buckshot! The $64,000 question!

[Lala'sMom]

How do you know when a pathological liar is lying?

[blah]

Will HansMos investigate this story?
That will be very telling as to their willingness to want to solve this crime.

They havent investigated anything in 3.5 years, why would they start now????

[ldstlou]

I did not read all of Kermit's posts, but did read through quite a few, and I am offended by what I think was implied, and that is that Natalee's body was found by the Persistance, that Beth and the family are aware that her body was found, and that they are keeping it quiet. I was really offended by the implications, if I am reading them correctly, and I may have misread them and apologize if I did. But I did call Jug this morning with the "theory" and he stated that is as far from the truth as you can get. Beth does NOT have Natalee's body, and has NO KNOWLEDGE of her being found in that cage.

 

Lou ... I had assumed that Kermit did get clearance from the FBI and Beth Holloway prior to posting those images.

Janet

__________


Tamikosmom
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #972 on: November 23, 2008, 09:49:14 PM »

For 3 1/2 years Monkeys have upheld Beth Holloway's words and actions.  Has Beth ever given us any reason not to trust that her motives are to further the cause of justice for her daughter.

If the FBI does not want pertinent information regarding the case revealed ... then that information should not be revealed.  If the timing is deemed not right for Beth Holloway to share ... then trust Natalee's mother ... the timing is not right.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554777;topicseen#msg554777

I will check again.

I just called again. Absolutely not true. Beth doesn't know about the theory of the photos or evidence that was collected and not turned over and Jug does not understand why Kermit is even stating this theory or information. Beth did not give Kermit to post photos on her behalf either.

[Dayhiker]

How do you know when a pathological liar is lying?

His lips are moving.

[Tamikosmom]

I did not read all of Kermit's posts, but did read through quite a few, and I am offended by what I think was implied, and that is that Natalee's body was found by the Persistance, that Beth and the family are aware that her body was found, and that they are keeping it quiet. I was really offended by the implications, if I am reading them correctly, and I may have misread them and apologize if I did. But I did call Jug this morning with the "theory" and he stated that is as far from the truth as you can get. Beth does NOT have Natalee's body, and has NO KNOWLEDGE of her being found in that cage.

Lou ... it is the photos that the Persistence took of the cage of its contents that is the issue.  According to Kermit ... rather than the Persistent turning these recent revealed images over to the FBI and/or Natalee's family ... members of the crews sold them or attempted to sell them.

Although the implication is clear ... I do not believe that Kermit or anybody has stated for certain that Natalee's remains were in that cage.

However ... considering Kermit was upset that Kyle did not share these recently revealed images with the FBI or NataIee's family ... I would give Kermit credit that he had clearance from both prior to posting those images.

Janet
__________

Quote from: Kermit on November 24, 2008, 06:11:09 PM

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

[Frank]

Lala,

I think to say he is a pathological liar is giving him cover, he is a sociopath. He doesn't know what a lie is or the truth is.

There is alot of truth to what he says, he speaks in codes or in abstraction for lack of a better term.

I know I sound like a broken record but Daury and this mystery man are Paulus. He is protecting his father like his father promised to "protect" him.

Why would Paulus "do anything" to protect his son, is his own way of communicating with Joran. Now Joran is not happy and like a little boy is stamping his feet and wanting, as he said, "to be kept happy." Money does that for him.

How exactly is Paulus "protecting" his son? This is classic father son with the element of sociopathy. He is beyond a liar, as that term doesn't even apply, he is not lying but COMMUNICATING.

[ldstlou]

I disagree, I think Greta has done a major service for Natalee's family by flying half way around the world to do this interview. We don't know everything that was told to Greta by Joran, and we probably shouldn't or where's the leverage?

I agree with you Idstlou. Greta has kept the story in the national eye here and in holland and Aruba. People will be watching to see if Hans Mos investigates this, which he should regardless of whether he "thinks" Joran is telling the truth or not. It's a prosecutor's job, as has been said many times on Greta's show, to investigate every lead, starting with all of those mentioned bank accounts, e-mails, and phone records.

Keep your eyes on Mos, his reactions will be telling. If he comes up with an excuse not to investigate this he is more than likely trying to shut the case down again under Holland's or Aruba's orders. Or maybe the Mafia.

you nailed it Dayhiker

[Tamikosmom]

I did not read all of Kermit's posts, but did read through quite a few, and I am offended by what I think was implied, and that is that Natalee's body was found by the Persistance, that Beth and the family are aware that her body was found, and that they are keeping it quiet. I was really offended by the implications, if I am reading them correctly, and I may have misread them and apologize if I did. But I did call Jug this morning with the "theory" and he stated that is as far from the truth as you can get. Beth does NOT have Natalee's body, and has NO KNOWLEDGE of her being found in that cage.

Lou ... it is the photos that the Persistence took of the cage of its contents that is the issue.  According to Kermit ... rather than the Persistent turning these recently  revealed images over to the FBI and/or Natalee's family ... members of the crews sold them or attempted to sell them.

Although the implication is clear ... I do not believe that Kermit or anybody has stated for certain that Natalee's remains were in that cage.

However ... considering Kermit was upset that Kyle did not share these recently revealed images with the FBI or NataIee's family prior to attempting to sell them ... I will give Kermit credit that he had clearance from both prior to posting those images.

Janet
__________

Quote from: Kermit on November 24, 2008, 06:11:09 PM

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

[ldstlou]

I did not read all of Kermit's posts, but did read through quite a few, and I am offended by what I think was implied, and that is that Natalee's body was found by the Persistance, that Beth and the family are aware that her body was found, and that they are keeping it quiet. I was really offended by the implications, if I am reading them correctly, and I may have misread them and apologize if I did. But I did call Jug this morning with the "theory" and he stated that is as far from the truth as you can get. Beth does NOT have Natalee's body, and has NO KNOWLEDGE of her being found in that cage.

Lou ... it is the photos that the Persistence took of the cage of its contents that is the issue.  According to Kermit ... rather than the Persistent turning these recent revealed images over to the FBI and/or Natalee's family ... members of the crews sold them or attempted to sell them.

Although the implication is clear ... I do not believe that Kermit or anybody has stated for certain that Natalee's remains were in that cage.

However ... considering Kermit was upset that Kyle did not share these recently revealed images with the FBI or NataIee's family ... I would give Kermit credit that he had clearance from both prior to posting those images.

Janet
__________

Quote from: Kermit on November 24, 2008, 06:11:09 PM

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

Thanks Janet. I still don't see the conspiracy because some photos were kept? I just am not getting the point?

If the point is that there was something in those photos or evidence that was gathered and kept from Beth and family, this is what I specifically asked Jug on the second call I just made, and he said no way. No conspiracy, and they don't feel evidence was withheld from them. I specifically discussed members of the Persistance withholding information and evidence and he said that is the farthest thing from the truth and he doesn't understand why anyone would state that.

[Blonde]

Joran also says this man speaks English, Dutch and Papiemento and that he spoke to him in front of Natalee and it wasn't weird.

It wouldn't be because Paulus had met Natalee a few hours earlier. I believe he took Natalee straight  to the van der sloot residence after C&C's.

"you're own father, unbelievable."

Satish: You will see, you will see.

Deepak: You could have prevented it from the beginning, this, of your father. You know it. That he wasn't arrested.



Joran: How? How? (stretches "how" out) You declare shit against him. My father only wanted to help you, friend. Only to help you was what my father wanted. My father himself arranged your lawyers. And this is how you pay it back. (now with an angry voice) I should hit you both once [een klap moeten geven].

Deepak: Then try it. You can make it better in one time.

Joran: About what? You can also make it better.

Deepak: You just have to tell the truth. Tomorrow, I'll get my last 8 days and then I'm going home.

Joran: That's what you think.

Deepak: I'm going home.

Joran: Wait until I'm going to tell stuff about you two. Then we'll see if you two are going home.

Deepak: I guarantee you.


This conversation was recorded without the knowlege of the participants as they all three sat in the back seat of a police car on June 29th.

[Keepthefaith]

I did not read all of Kermit's posts, but did read through quite a few, and I am offended by what I think was implied, and that is that Natalee's body was found by the Persistance, that Beth and the family are aware that her body was found, and that they are keeping it quiet. I was really offended by the implications, if I am reading them correctly, and I may have misread them and apologize if I did. But I did call Jug this morning with the "theory" and he stated that is as far from the truth as you can get. Beth does NOT have Natalee's body, and has NO KNOWLEDGE of her being found in that cage.

Lou ... it is the photos that the Persistence took of the cage of its contents that is the issue.  According to Kermit ... rather than the Persistent turning these recent revealed images over to the FBI and/or Natalee's family ... members of the crews sold them or attempted to sell them.

Although the implication is clear ... I do not believe that Kermit or anybody has stated for certain that Natalee's remains were in that cage.

However ... considering Kermit was upset that Kyle did not share these recently revealed images with the FBI or NataIee's family ... I would give Kermit credit that he had clearance from both prior to posting those images.

Janet
__________

Quote from: Kermit on November 24, 2008, 06:11:09 PM

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

Thanks Janet. I still don't see the conspiracy because some photos were kept? I just am not getting the point?

If the point is that there was something in those photos or evidence that was gathered and kept from Beth and family, this is what I specifically asked Jug on the second call I just made, and he said no way. No conspiracy, and they don't feel evidence was withheld from them. I specifically discussed members of the Persistance withholding information and evidence and he said that is the farthest thing from the truth and he doesn't understand why anyone would state that.

So the family was aware of the photos,the contents of the trap,as well as the Aruban divers recovering the contents of the trap??

[Magnolia]

I just called again. Absolutely not true. Beth doesn't know about the theory of the photos or evidence that was collected and not turned over and Jug does not understand why Kermit is even stating this theory or information. Beth did not give Kermit to post photos on her behalf either.
[/quote]
==================================================================

Lisa, did Beth and Jug know that these photos existed? Have they seen
them before?

[sharon]

I just called again. Absolutely not true. Beth doesn't know about the theory of the photos or evidence that was collected and not turned over and Jug does not understand why Kermit is even stating this theory or information. Beth did not give Kermit to post photos on her behalf either.

==================================================================

Lisa, did Beth and Jug know that these photos existed? Have they seen
them before?
[/quote]

Lisa --

You spoke with Jug and he is speaking for Beth????
 
I thought they were divorced 

[ldstlou]

I did not read all of Kermit's posts, but did read through quite a few, and I am offended by what I think was implied, and that is that Natalee's body was found by the Persistance, that Beth and the family are aware that her body was found, and that they are keeping it quiet. I was really offended by the implications, if I am reading them correctly, and I may have misread them and apologize if I did. But I did call Jug this morning with the "theory" and he stated that is as far from the truth as you can get. Beth does NOT have Natalee's body, and has NO KNOWLEDGE of her being found in that cage.

Lou ... it is the photos that the Persistence took of the cage of its contents that is the issue.  According to Kermit ... rather than the Persistent turning these recent revealed images over to the FBI and/or Natalee's family ... members of the crews sold them or attempted to sell them.

Although the implication is clear ... I do not believe that Kermit or anybody has stated for certain that Natalee's remains were in that cage.

However ... considering Kermit was upset that Kyle did not share these recently revealed images with the FBI or NataIee's family ... I would give Kermit credit that he had clearance from both prior to posting those images.

Janet
__________

Quote from: Kermit on November 24, 2008, 06:11:09 PM

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

Thanks Janet. I still don't see the conspiracy because some photos were kept? I just am not getting the point?

If the point is that there was something in those photos or evidence that was gathered and kept from Beth and family, this is what I specifically asked Jug on the second call I just made, and he said no way. No conspiracy, and they don't feel evidence was withheld from them. I specifically discussed members of the Persistance withholding information and evidence and he said that is the farthest thing from the truth and he doesn't understand why anyone would state that.

So the family was aware of the photos,the contents of the trap,as well as the Aruban divers recovering the contents of the trap??

That is my understanding. When I specifically asked about members of the Persistance witholding info or evidence, Jug said NO WAY!! Farthest thing from the truth and he does NOT underdstand why this person would say such a thing.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I just called again. Absolutely not true. Beth doesn't know about the theory of the photos or evidence that was collected and not turned over and Jug does not understand why Kermit is even stating this theory or information. Beth did not give Kermit to post photos on her behalf either.

==================================================================

Lisa, did Beth and Jug know that these photos existed? Have they seen
them before?
[/quote]

I'm not Lisa, but was just thinking that they had to have seen them, or PI would not have mentioned the denim and zip lock bags.....jmo

[ldstlou]

I did not read all of Kermit's posts, but did read through quite a few, and I am offended by what I think was implied, and that is that Natalee's body was found by the Persistance, that Beth and the family are aware that her body was found, and that they are keeping it quiet. I was really offended by the implications, if I am reading them correctly, and I may have misread them and apologize if I did. But I did call Jug this morning with the "theory" and he stated that is as far from the truth as you can get. Beth does NOT have Natalee's body, and has NO KNOWLEDGE of her being found in that cage.

Lou ... it is the photos that the Persistence took of the cage of its contents that is the issue.  According to Kermit ... rather than the Persistent turning these recent revealed images over to the FBI and/or Natalee's family ... members of the crews sold them or attempted to sell them.

Although the implication is clear ... I do not believe that Kermit or anybody has stated for certain that Natalee's remains were in that cage.

However ... considering Kermit was upset that Kyle did not share these recently revealed images with the FBI or NataIee's family ... I would give Kermit credit that he had clearance from both prior to posting those images.

Janet
__________

Quote from: Kermit on November 24, 2008, 06:11:09 PM

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

Thanks Janet. I still don't see the conspiracy because some photos were kept? I just am not getting the point?

If the point is that there was something in those photos or evidence that was gathered and kept from Beth and family, this is what I specifically asked Jug on the second call I just made, and he said no way. No conspiracy, and they don't feel evidence was withheld from them. I specifically discussed members of the Persistance withholding information and evidence and he said that is the farthest thing from the truth and he doesn't understand why anyone would state that.

So the family was aware of the photos,the contents of the trap,as well as the Aruban divers recovering the contents of the trap??

That is my understanding. When I specifically asked about members of the Persistance witholding info or evidence, Jug said NO WAY!! Farthest thing from the truth and he does NOT underdstand why this person would say such a thing.

I specifically described the photos

[sharon]

I just called again. Absolutely not true. Beth doesn't know about the theory of the photos or evidence that was collected and not turned over and Jug does not understand why Kermit is even stating this theory or information. Beth did not give Kermit to post photos on her behalf either.

==================================================================

Lisa, did Beth and Jug know that these photos existed? Have they seen
them before?

I'm not Lisa, but was just thinking that they had to have seen them, or PI would not have mentioned the denim and zip lock bags.....jmo
[/quote]

 

That's way too logical 2NJ.

 

[Magnolia]

Are you sure that Jug has seen the photos posted yesterday,
and he is not thinking of the photos that Robin posted earlier
this year?