Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 - 11/26/08

[johan555]

Brought over from the previous thread:

Betcha he's reading here. Joran, you're a moron.

Joran we have perfect girl for you--her name is Casey-you to would be perfect together-

I email  since a few days with a EX girlfriend of Joran 

[jehnifer]

Did we ever find out the name of the teacher Greta was talking about?  Is it the music teacher at ISA or someone else? 

Yeah Greta partially said his name last night in the interview.  Schmitt. or something

[2NJSons_Mom]

Did we ever find out the name of the teacher Greta was talking about?  Is it the music teacher at ISA or someone else? 

Not that I'm aware of....guess we'll know tonight.....I think vms posted about finding someone who relocated to Seattle who is a caucasian teacher....comparing it to the clip Greta used last night.

[ldstlou]

IMO, Kermit and Kyle have both always been honest, decent people whose posts were truthful. This says to me that there is some misunderstanding somewhere between the two of them as to what happened regarding the photos.

I wish they could talk with each other and determine what the source of the misunderstanding is. 

I wish Kyle would respond to the accusations which Kermit made about him attempting to sell the most recently revealed photos prior to sharing them with the FBI or Natalee's family.

From the getgo ... I felt that Kyle's posts implied that he was being deceived by the Arubans into believing that their objective in cooperating with the search effort for Natalee's remains was all about justice for an eighteen year old American citizen.  However ... I never doubted that Kyle's motives were sincere.

Actually ... I have always trusted Kermit's motivations.

This happenings of the past couple of days regarding this topic is so troubling.

Janet

I also want to say that I don't know Kermits motivations at all and am no way implying they are negative at all!!! I have been absolutely SURE of things in my mind and later found out I was wrong in my assumptions...thus the don't "ass u me " thing...lol..bites me in the butt all the time. That is why I asked Jug this morning. To make sure I had stated everything clearly this morning, because I was also discussing the Greta show and I talk really fast..lol...I called him again and talked only about the photos and the Persistance to make sure I had gotten in right.

I don't want Kermit to think I am attacking her at all or her beliefs, that was never my intentions. I just had to clarify everything in my mind and wanted to share the info and asked Jug if it was ok to post his response and he said yes.

[Tylergal]

Think back to summer 2005 when Greta and Beth ventured into the home of the Sloots and Anita referring to Paulus as "the judge."  Anita was doing more than making a little slip of the tongue here.  She was sending a message to someone, someone (not Beth, not Greta) that the judge is not to be taken lightly nor made light of and that he will not be intimidated but will take care of things he needs to care for.  Anita knows that Paulus is involved in something bigger than a mere crime of human trafficking or a girl gone missing in Aurba.  The fact that Natalee went there and disappeared either by death or sale, or whatever, only pulled the duvet back on this bed of crime at the vander Sloot house.  There is far more criminal involvement here than we know and hopefully Greta knows of more than we do.  Greta and her husband have positioned themselves well to know what goes on in politics and she probably could make the hair on our heads stand on end by now.  Joran was sending his father a message that he needed help, maybe money but the message he was sent back was to keep his mouth closed temporarily or it would be closed for him permanently.  The Kalpoes are also involved in something that is large; the only reason they did not take the fall for this whole sordid event.  Paulus' connections go to the Hague and some there whose reputations, flawed as they are now just by virtue of being connected to such a sorry institution as the Hague or the UN, could get even dirtier by evidence that can come out showing their connections to Iran, Iraq and Milosovic.

[Lala'sMom]

Blonde
As I have said all along we are beating a dead horse here...no matter what each of us wants to believe I guarantee you that what is the actual truth is nothing that we have been told.  We are one of many blogs that talk this trash all day long about one thing or the other and it's 90% speculation and only 10% truth.  Otherwise, we would all be working for those same law enforcement agencies that we pretend to emulate from time to time.  There are two sides to Natalee's family and each have their own directions...it leads to the same conclusions but the journey is different.  I would rather see the perps in handcuffs and Aruba get their life back and Natalee see justice than to continue to worry about who is right and who is wrong.  I just want one thing...for Natalee to come home to her family. 

[cherjers]

His father puts up money to get him out of all the trouble( not that I am saying it was right for the father to do),  What does he do --sets his father up ,  Records conversation tells the world his father bribe people.  He said he does not talk to his parents.  This is the 3rd story this kid told-then after he thinks about and says I lied.  Does this remind you of anyone.

[Lala'sMom]

Did we ever find out the name of the teacher Greta was talking about?  Is it the music teacher at ISA or someone else? 

Yeah Greta partially said his name last night in the interview.  Schmitt. or something

Is this the Luke guy?

[Tylergal]

Hiya Monkeys.
Maybe paulypuss & his dirty old mens club will finally get a bit of comeuppance 

Shango..shango..shango...dancing my way to the bar for a drink to celebrate...oh wait it's only noon.  Oh well, it's five o'clock somewhere.

Cha...cha...cha cha cha!   

Shango, Lorenzo, Shango, Lorenzo, Shango, Lorenzo 

The song that always gets Lalas going. 

Do you have any idea how much Shango/Simian/Merian is in this latest revelation? 

You mean the ping all the way to Bill' house?  Oh, yes, there is more than one; there are several.

[Tamikosmom]

Brought over from the previous thread:

Betcha he's reading here. Joran, you're a moron.

Joran we have perfect girl for you--her name is Casey-you to would be perfect together-

... and the respective parents of Casey and George get along.  They both think alike regarding their lying children.

Janet
_________


On the Record w/ Greta
August 6, 2008

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you 100 percent believe your daughter.?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I do.

VAN SUSTEREN: George, what about you, 100 percent?

GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING CHILD'S GRANDFATHER: More than 100 percent

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398490,00.html


On the Record w/ Greta
June 23, 2005

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: … He said, The truth will come forward, and I know that I didn't do anything to the girl. And the truth will come forward. And he was so strong.  And I believe in him. I believe so in him. ... I believe in him 200 percent.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

[ldstlou]

The Telegraaf website today > for the lawyers here 

Gielen's crocu

oops, someone forgot to tell joran he and paulus were innocent!! lol

[Blonde]

Email from Oceanexploration:

Good morning Debbie,

If you can, could you put out this gentle reminder of the order of events surrounding the Persistence search? I think it would help debunk some theories and remind people of the order of events and facts and that we weren't part of some grand conspiracy for some pipeline as whoever claims. Thanks!

The following events are all recorded on camera during multiple interviews in the following order:
1) Dave Holloway talked to Tim Miller to help him search out at sea for Natalee
2) Tim Miller got together with Louis who has resources and contacts to conduct challenging ocean searches
3) Louis got in touch with John S. who does ocean searches and has the equipment and personnel to do so
4) John contracted Kyle to run the sonar work and over a dozen other good team members to make it all possible (that's a lot of conspirators!)

Not the other way around.

If this was a conspiracy search as Kermit claims, then she is calling Dave Holloway a liar and therefore Dave must be the mastermind behind the conspiracy. Her claims mean that Dave must want this mystical pipeline built that no one has actually ever heard anything about. Perhaps Kermit and others would buy into this nonsense.

Let's elaborate on this:

-If any company wanted a pipeline built, they would first get approval to construct such a project, which is public information. None exists to my knowledge. Pipeline construction goes on every day around the world and it is not some covert operation. It's like building a bridge.

-If an Aruban or Venezuelan company got approval to build such mystical pipeline, then the owner of said proposed pipeline would have sent out a request for proposals (RFP) for multiple companies to bid on the construction. None exist to my knowledge.

-Let's say said pipeline contract got awarded to a survey company such as J. Silvetti's Marine Surveys. Silvetti's company would proceed with a pipeline route survey, not a grid search! Pipeline route surveys are designed to provide information to pipeline engineers on how to lay the pipe. This requires survey data to be aligned along a proposed route corridor from the start of the pipeline to the end. Also, this requires information about sediment types and shallow subbottom profiling. No sediment sampling or subbottom profiling equipment was on board the Persistence during the Holloway search.

-Pipelines go from point A to point B. As Kermit claims, said mystical pipeline is(?)/will(?) run from Aruba to Venezuela. If true, then the pipeline route survey would also go from Aruba to Venezuela. More specifically, it would go from where the pipeline came to shore on land, which in this case would be near the refinery. The Persistence never went near Venezuelan waters or near the refinery.

-Unfortunately for Kermit, she doesn't know because she wasn't involved with this search or case in any capacity, but the search for Natalee wasn't conducted anywhere near any energy facility where such a pipeline would come to shore. It was conducted offshore the High-rise hotels - which is certainly NOT a likely spot for a pipeline or approved oil exploration for obvious reasons - Aruba survives on tourism and this is where it's centered. Further, the survey was conducted in a tight polygonal grid pattern, which anyone who has ever conducted ocean searches before knows is designed to find a discrete object within a given area within the time budget you have allowed. In this case, a container possibly containing the remains or evidence of a lost American girl was the object of the search.

- I think the reason people have a hard time accepting all this is simple. It shows that good people (even business people and people with money and energy ties) still go out of their way to help others in times of need. Generally, it is the people who don't have a good bone in their body that have the hardest time understanding this concept of selflessness and giving. It just simply isn't what they would do.

- As for the allegations of a search effort cover up, it's true. Not all that went on during the search effort was posted on the Internet or broadcasted on TV. This is a very good thing. Let's remember this is a murder investigation. How many murder investigations have we heard of in history where you know every move made by the investigators? Does the public get to see the evidence sprawled out on the sidewalk? The answer is simply "No". Doing so hinders and may compromise the investigation. Further, the less the suspects or perpetrators know prior to their arrest, the better. It gives them time to plan, cover their tracks, make up convincing stories, run, etc.

- Emotion with time is savage to human reason. Let's not let our emotions interfere with what we know to be true. Keep what is provable and factual in the order which it occurred and view it in it's proper context.

- Don't ignore facts which do not align with a convincing theory. If that which is provable does not fit in with a theory, do not change the facts, rework the theory.


I apologize to those who are able to understand these simple truths. This message wasn't for you. This has been a very difficult case which is made harder by the flow of misinformation and time.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the Holloway family and all those who have poured out their hearts, effort, and time into this case over the past few years genuinely seeking the truth. May God bless you all and bring a peace that surpasses all understanding. Happy Thanksgiving.

[Lala'sMom]

Let me pose one of my famous questions to everyone.  Think about it for a while.

After what Joran did to Greta the first time she interviewed him and how she stood up for him and took tremendous heat from her entire audience, do any of you honestly think she would continue to risk her reputation to go back to Joran and put this story out there without having some very valid evidence to support what she has done?

Greta would not risk it again...she has the names of people that Joran gave her.  He realized this when she pressed him for information and he got up and left.  That point in the interview was one of the most honest reactions from Joran I have yet to see.  He had his one moment of clarity about what he was doing with Greta and realized that he may have said too much.  Joran gave us some very good stuff last night and it was concerning what we all have thought for years. Joran had help...lots of help...and Paulus is the person that orchestrated that help. 

A wire transaction...verified by Greta?  If she didn't verify it..then she is the fool and her credibility as a journalist is shot to heck. 

Joran and Paulus talking about selling someone...heard by Greta?  She better have heard it or why would she even consider calling Mos and offering her evidence to him? 

There is more...Greta knows this...she has it...and the family knows it too.  The ball is in Aruba's court now, but they will not run with it...to risky...way too risky.

[Lala'sMom]

Hiya Monkeys.
Maybe paulypuss & his dirty old mens club will finally get a bit of comeuppance 

Shango..shango..shango...dancing my way to the bar for a drink to celebrate...oh wait it's only noon.  Oh well, it's five o'clock somewhere.

Cha...cha...cha cha cha!   

Shango, Lorenzo, Shango, Lorenzo, Shango, Lorenzo 

The song that always gets Lalas going. 

Do you have any idea how much Shango/Simian/Merian is in this latest revelation? 

You mean the ping all the way to Bill' house?  Oh, yes, there is more than one; there are several.

Man!  I have missed my Shango buddy...how are you? 

[Tylergal]

I am doing well, thank you, Lala's.  I am very anxious to see what else Greta has to say tonight.  We know none of this is going to land anyone in jail but it is probably selling a lot of Prilosec around 20-mile island in the Caribbean right now.

I wish Jossy would come here and let us know if they have cable any longer. 

I loved Joran telling that cops were paid off.  Of course, we knew cops and anyone else who got in the way was either paid off or off'd and not the least of which was a certain female reporter whose hand was in her pocket and her pocket in her pants doing the "We don't anything AHATA suicide dance."  Where is Steve Cohen when Tacapino is needed and how much involvement is there by certain persons in NJ and Seattle and, oh yes, our friend from Chicago was on here all night last night according to site meter.  I saw an ISP from India.  Do tell, Deepak.  Around 2 p.m. to 7 p.m., even one of my computers has an Indian ISP.

[Lala'sMom]

I am doing well, thank you, Lala's.  I am very anxious to see what else Greta has to say tonight.  We know none of this is going to land anyone in jail but it is probably selling a lot of Prilosec around 20-mile island in the Caribbean right now.

I wish Jossy would come here and let us know if they have cable any longer. 

I loved Joran telling that cops were paid off.  Of course, we knew cops and anyone else who got in the way was either paid off or off'd and not the least of which was a certain female reporter whose hand was in her pocket and her pocket in her pants doing the "We don't anything AHATA suicide dance."  Where is Steve Cohen when Tacapino is needed and how much involvement is there by certain persons in NJ and Seattle and, oh yes, our friend from Chicago was on here all night last night according to site meter.  I saw an ISP from India.  Do tell, Deepak.  Around 2 p.m. to 7 p.m., even one of my computers has an Indian ISP.

Those wayward proxy servers. LOL  I even saw a familiar IP from Aruba dancing around in Shango today too...very interesting how some know just where to locate information they want in that thread.  It's one of those places you have to be familiar with to navigate.

[johan555]

Peter R. de Vries on RTL Boulevard this evening 

They asked him  if he knows where Joran is.

Peter I have a suspicion > then he starts laughing
Peter: there are lots of people who voluntarily tell me what they see and hear.
Albert vd Linde : But is he in Thailand or has he left the country?
Peter:...(giving a straight face) Guys, next time. (starts smiling).

[Lala'sMom]

Email from Oceanexploration:

Good morning Debbie,

If you can, could you put out this gentle reminder of the order of events surrounding the Persistence search? I think it would help debunk some theories and remind people of the order of events and facts and that we weren't part of some grand conspiracy for some pipeline as whoever claims. Thanks!

The following events are all recorded on camera during multiple interviews in the following order:
1) Dave Holloway talked to Tim Miller to help him search out at sea for Natalee
2) Tim Miller got together with Louis who has resources and contacts to conduct challenging ocean searches
3) Louis got in touch with John S. who does ocean searches and has the equipment and personnel to do so
4) John contracted Kyle to run the sonar work and over a dozen other good team members to make it all possible (that's a lot of conspirators!)

Not the other way around.

If this was a conspiracy search as Kermit claims, then she is calling Dave Holloway a liar and therefore Dave must be the mastermind behind the conspiracy. Her claims mean that Dave must want this mystical pipeline built that no one has actually ever heard anything about. Perhaps Kermit and others would buy into this nonsense.

Let's elaborate on this:

-If any company wanted a pipeline built, they would first get approval to construct such a project, which is public information. None exists to my knowledge. Pipeline construction goes on every day around the world and it is not some covert operation. It's like building a bridge.

-If an Aruban or Venezuelan company got approval to build such mystical pipeline, then the owner of said proposed pipeline would have sent out a request for proposals (RFP) for multiple companies to bid on the construction. None exist to my knowledge.

-Let's say said pipeline contract got awarded to a survey company such as J. Silvetti's Marine Surveys. Silvetti's company would proceed with a pipeline route survey, not a grid search! Pipeline route surveys are designed to provide information to pipeline engineers on how to lay the pipe. This requires survey data to be aligned along a proposed route corridor from the start of the pipeline to the end. Also, this requires information about sediment types and shallow subbottom profiling. No sediment sampling or subbottom profiling equipment was on board the Persistence during the Holloway search.

-Pipelines go from point A to point B. As Kermit claims, said mystical pipeline is(?)/will(?) run from Aruba to Venezuela. If true, then the pipeline route survey would also go from Aruba to Venezuela. More specifically, it would go from where the pipeline came to shore on land, which in this case would be near the refinery. The Persistence never went near Venezuelan waters or near the refinery.

-Unfortunately for Kermit, she doesn't know because she wasn't involved with this search or case in any capacity, but the search for Natalee wasn't conducted anywhere near any energy facility where such a pipeline would come to shore. It was conducted offshore the High-rise hotels - which is certainly NOT a likely spot for a pipeline or approved oil exploration for obvious reasons - Aruba survives on tourism and this is where it's centered. Further, the survey was conducted in a tight polygonal grid pattern, which anyone who has ever conducted ocean searches before knows is designed to find a discrete object within a given area within the time budget you have allowed. In this case, a container possibly containing the remains or evidence of a lost American girl was the object of the search.

- I think the reason people have a hard time accepting all this is simple. It shows that good people (even business people and people with money and energy ties) still go out of their way to help others in times of need. Generally, it is the people who don't have a good bone in their body that have the hardest time understanding this concept of selflessness and giving. It just simply isn't what they would do.

- As for the allegations of a search effort cover up, it's true. Not all that went on during the search effort was posted on the Internet or broadcasted on TV. This is a very good thing. Let's remember this is a murder investigation. How many murder investigations have we heard of in history where you know every move made by the investigators? Does the public get to see the evidence sprawled out on the sidewalk? The answer is simply "No". Doing so hinders and may compromise the investigation. Further, the less the suspects or perpetrators know prior to their arrest, the better. It gives them time to plan, cover their tracks, make up convincing stories, run, etc.

- Emotion with time is savage to human reason. Let's not let our emotions interfere with what we know to be true. Keep what is provable and factual in the order which it occurred and view it in it's proper context.

- Don't ignore facts which do not align with a convincing theory. If that which is provable does not fit in with a theory, do not change the facts, rework the theory.


I apologize to those who are able to understand these simple truths. This message wasn't for you. This has been a very difficult case which is made harder by the flow of misinformation and time.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the Holloway family and all those who have poured out their hearts, effort, and time into this case over the past few years genuinely seeking the truth. May God bless you all and bring a peace that surpasses all understanding. Happy Thanksgiving.

This is precisely my point...you don't tell everything.  Everyone does not know...no matter how high up they are.

[Lala'sMom]

Peter R. de Vries on RTL Boulevard this evening 

They asked him  if he knows where Joran is.

Peter I have a suspicion > then he starts laughing
Peter: there are lots of people who voluntarily tell me what they see and hear.
Albert vd Linde : But is he in Thailand or has he left the country?
Peter:...(giving a straight face) Guys, next time. (starts smiling).

So do you think he knows where Joran is?

[johan555]

Peter R. de Vries on RTL Boulevard this evening 

They asked him  if he knows where Joran is.

Peter I have a suspicion > then he starts laughing
Peter: there are lots of people who voluntarily tell me what they see and hear.
Albert vd Linde : But is he in Thailand or has he left the country?
Peter:...(giving a straight face) Guys, next time. (starts smiling).

So do you think he knows where Joran is?

Yep !