Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 - 11/26/08

[Keepthefaith]

I did not read all of Kermit's posts, but did read through quite a few, and I am offended by what I think was implied, and that is that Natalee's body was found by the Persistance, that Beth and the family are aware that her body was found, and that they are keeping it quiet. I was really offended by the implications, if I am reading them correctly, and I may have misread them and apologize if I did. But I did call Jug this morning with the "theory" and he stated that is as far from the truth as you can get. Beth does NOT have Natalee's body, and has NO KNOWLEDGE of her being found in that cage.

Lou ... it is the photos that the Persistence took of the cage of its contents that is the issue.  According to Kermit ... rather than the Persistent turning these recent revealed images over to the FBI and/or Natalee's family ... members of the crews sold them or attempted to sell them.

Although the implication is clear ... I do not believe that Kermit or anybody has stated for certain that Natalee's remains were in that cage.

However ... considering Kermit was upset that Kyle did not share these recently revealed images with the FBI or NataIee's family ... I would give Kermit credit that he had clearance from both prior to posting those images.

Janet
__________

Quote from: Kermit on November 24, 2008, 06:11:09 PM

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

Thanks Janet. I still don't see the conspiracy because some photos were kept? I just am not getting the point?

If the point is that there was something in those photos or evidence that was gathered and kept from Beth and family, this is what I specifically asked Jug on the second call I just made, and he said no way. No conspiracy, and they don't feel evidence was withheld from them. I specifically discussed members of the Persistance withholding information and evidence and he said that is the farthest thing from the truth and he doesn't understand why anyone would state that.

So the family was aware of the photos,the contents of the trap,as well as the Aruban divers recovering the contents of the trap??

Hello Kermit!Can you answer this????

YES.
I posted the email (deleted the email addys) from Beth and myself.
Also Janet posted private eyes response. He indeed saw the photos & contacted Beth.
No one, to my knowledge gave them to Dave Holloway.

Just read that Kermit.Thanx.

[Magnolia]

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

I believe the frog.

[Keepthefaith]

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

Did you read the email brought over from BFN from OE and can you answer it,as well as bring it and your answer forward??If you care to.Thanx in advance

[Altruist]

(snipped from Kermit's post)

DID KYLE TURN OVER EVERYTHING TO THE FBI?
From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th. I[/b]

Kermit, please which authorities are being referenced enlarged & red above?  The FBI authorities or MO/ALE or both?  TYIA for your reply.

[Tamikosmom]

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

 

This is all so troubling.

Janet
______

Quote from: Kermit on November 24, 2008, 06:11:09 PM

Kyle sent those 6 pictures to the FBI, Dave asked him for them. He didn't give them to him. The FBI did, then Robin posted them on her webiste and then Kyle accused Red of posting them on SM and they had an argument.

1 - Shaefer sold the rights to these images for BIG BUCKS
 
2 - Kyle tried to sell the rights to those images to major US networks in Feb 2008
 
3 - John Silvetti had plans to open an office on Aruba this past spring.
 
4 - John Silvetti  discounted anything and everything about that fish trap - before anyone even dove on it.
 
5 - Louis Shaefer reorganized his company in JANUARY 2008 - coincidental timing?  Doubtful.
 
6 - Kyle wanted help to get this info to Beth and to the public.  Then he stalled, lied, threatened, to stop that from happening.
 
7 - This information was sent to:  Beth, JQK and the FBI by NO ONE connected to the Persistence search.  EVER.
 
THEY ALL KEPT THIS INFORMATION FROM NATALEE'S FAMILY, AND FROM THE FBI
 
WHY?

[Edward]

THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
Flag this message
Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
Add sender to Contacts
To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~
 

[Keepthefaith]

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

I believe the frog.

How can you not???

[Keepthefaith]

Are you sure that Jug has seen the photos posted yesterday,
and he is not thinking of the photos that Robin posted earlier
this year?

And when did Jug start speaking for Beth again   

Jug and Beth do not fight with each. They are still speaking with each other and if most knew the truth they would be very surprised at what the situation is between them at this very moment.  But to each his on in what you wish to believe.  I an through beating this dead horse...let's talk about the Greta stuff now.

All well and good.

But Beth was aware of the photos.

Apparently Jug was not. 

Now, carry on

Sharon I am not understanding what you are trying to say and why you are writing it in red? She was aware of the photos? Does that mean you believe she thinks there was a conspiracy by Kyle to hide evidence? You think that is what Beth believes?

Flag this message
email received
Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:46 PM
From:
"beth (I have edited her email)
To:
kermit ( I have edited my email)

NOTE the date and the response is "EMAILED RECEIVED", Please do no doubt I have the correspondence



Idstlou,
If Beth chose to not share the information with Jug, it's not my call. It is hers.
She HAS the pictures and information. These photos were NOT given to her or Dave by the Persistence crew/owner or FBI.

IF Jug would like to speak to me, please feel free to have him contact me.
I have ALL the documents and Proof of what I have posted as well as ALL of Kyles statements to me. I am more then happy to let Jug see them.
Beth has some of them already through myself as well as through private eye.
 
THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
Flag this message
Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
Add sender to Contacts
To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~




CORRESPONDENCE WITH KYLE ABOUT RED
From Kyle: march 18, 2008:
If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.
~Kyle

DID KYLE TURN OVER EVERYTHING TO THE FBI?
From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th. I[/b]


KYLE RETURNED TO THE U.S. AND TRIED TO SELL THE PHOTOS THAT WERE POSTED HERE YESTERDAY
From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."[/b]


As I stated before, if Jug wants to contact me and wants to have the copies of what I know, PLEASE tell him to do so. I would be VERY HAPPY LIL FROG TO DO SO

ribbit

Very interesting!Thanx again Kermit!

[Tamikosmom]

Flag this message
email received
Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:46 PM
From:
"beth (I have edited her email)
To:
kermit ( I have edited my email)

NOTE the date and the response is "EMAILED RECEIVED", Please do no doubt I have the correspondence



Idstlou,
If Beth chose to not share the information with Jug, it's not my call. It is hers.
She HAS the pictures and information. These photos were NOT given to her or Dave by the Persistence crew/owner or FBI.

IF Jug would like to speak to me, please feel free to have him contact me.
I have ALL the documents and Proof of what I have posted as well as ALL of Kyles statements to me. I am more then happy to let Jug see them.
Beth has some of them already through myself as well as through private eye.
 
THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
Flag this message
Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
Add sender to Contacts
To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~




CORRESPONDENCE WITH KYLE ABOUT RED
From Kyle: march 18, 2008:
If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.
~Kyle

DID KYLE TURN OVER EVERYTHING TO THE FBI?
From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th. I[/b]


KYLE RETURNED TO THE U.S. AND TRIED TO SELL THE PHOTOS THAT WERE POSTED HERE YESTERDAY
From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."[/b]


As I stated before, if Jug wants to contact me and wants to have the copies of what I know, PLEASE tell him to do so. I would be VERY HAPPY LIL FROG TO DO SO

ribbit

So confusing.

 

Bottom line:

Kermit ...Beth Holloway knew that the images ... the images that Kyle shared with you in correspondence but did not share with the FBI/Holloway family ... were going to be posted on the Natalee Holloway forum at Scared Monkeys.

Kermit ... have I got that right?

 

Janet

[johan555]

Were was/is that cage ? Kermit

[Buckeye]

vms

I think your picture also looks like the guy in the first pic of Joran in Thailand.

Do you have a pic of Olindo Koolman (looks like Silvetti)?

Got to go out awhile.

[Frank]

Personally, I would like to see Kermit and OE come together on this board for the most important reason, Natalee.

Can you comprehend putting all out there for her and stop the courtroom drama. Who cares who did what at this point, let's just bring Natalee home, please?

Can we be honest for the sake of Natalee?

Wouldn't that make your big meal on Thursday taste just a little better?

[Edward]

LA GUAIRA, Venezuela – Russian warships sailed into port in Venezuela on Tuesday in a show of strength as Moscow seeks to counter U.S. influence in Latin America. Russia's first such deployment in the Caribbean since the Cold War is timed to coincide with President Dmitry Medvedev's visit to Venezuela, the first ever by a Russian president.

Russian sailors dressed in black-and-white uniforms lined up along the bow of the destroyer Admiral Chabanenko as it docked in La Guaira, near Caracas, and Venezuelan troops greeted them with cannons in a 21-gun salute. Two support vessels also docked, and the nuclear-powered cruiser Peter the Great, Russia's largest navy ship, anchored offshore.

[Magnolia]

Johan,
I think around #2 on your map.

[klaasend]

Johan - somewhere near #2 or between #2 & #3

[hummingbird7525]

It does list the Netherlands, is Holland covered under that???  That friggen place is confusing

Yes, Holland is a region of The Netherlands.  But they still won't tell Greta if Joran received money via their services.

Hi - I don't know if this means anything or not, but on Greta's show Monday I remembered her saying that Joran gave her the transaction wire numbers from the Western Union money.  I would think that if you had those numbers you could verify that transaction no matter who you were.  I think you might have to get a little creative, but Greta can be creative if she wants something bad enough.

VAN SUSTEREN: About six months ago. Is suddenly he gives you how much more?

VAN DER SLOOT: He gave me the same amount again.

VAN SUSTEREN: Ten grand or $9,600?

VAN DER SLOOT: Ten grand.

VAN DER SLOOT: OK, 10 grand. And he wires it to you in Holland. And you've actually given us the wire number.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: You've given it to us. But there must have been some contact before, like by e-mail or conversation for you to give him the number...

VAN DER SLOOT: I had e-mail contact with him.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you had email contact with him for the last couple of years?

VAN DER SLOOT: No, but I have it to him one time on a piece of paper. And I don't know if he was using a real e-mail address.

VAN SUSTEREN: So you just out of the blue e-mailed him first or he e-mailed you first?

VAN DER SLOOT: He e-mailed me. I do not have his email.

VAN SUSTEREN: He e-mailed you and said what?

VAN DER SLOOT: He said, like, how am I doing, and for me to shut up, and if I needed any money.

VAN SUSTEREN: So you then replied what?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.

[ldstlou]

Are you sure that Jug has seen the photos posted yesterday,
and he is not thinking of the photos that Robin posted earlier
this year?

And when did Jug start speaking for Beth again   

Jug and Beth do not fight with each. They are still speaking with each other and if most knew the truth they would be very surprised at what the situation is between them at this very moment.  But to each his on in what you wish to believe.  I an through beating this dead horse...let's talk about the Greta stuff now.

All well and good.

But Beth was aware of the photos.

Apparently Jug was not. 

Now, carry on

Sharon I am not understanding what you are trying to say and why you are writing it in red? She was aware of the photos? Does that mean you believe she thinks there was a conspiracy by Kyle to hide evidence? You think that is what Beth believes?

Flag this message
email received
Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:46 PM
From:
"beth (I have edited her email)
To:
kermit ( I have edited my email)

NOTE the date and the response is "EMAILED RECEIVED", Please do no doubt I have the correspondence



Idstlou,
If Beth chose to not share the information with Jug, it's not my call. It is hers.
She HAS the pictures and information. These photos were NOT given to her or Dave by the Persistence crew/owner or FBI.

IF Jug would like to speak to me, please feel free to have him contact me.
I have ALL the documents and Proof of what I have posted as well as ALL of Kyles statements to me. I am more then happy to let Jug see them.
Beth has some of them already through myself as well as through private eye.
 
THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
Flag this message
Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
Add sender to Contacts
To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~




CORRESPONDENCE WITH KYLE ABOUT RED
From Kyle: march 18, 2008:
If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.
~Kyle

DID KYLE TURN OVER EVERYTHING TO THE FBI?
From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th. I[/b]


KYLE RETURNED TO THE U.S. AND TRIED TO SELL THE PHOTOS THAT WERE POSTED HERE YESTERDAY
From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."[/b]


As I stated before, if Jug wants to contact me and wants to have the copies of what I know, PLEASE tell him to do so. I would be VERY HAPPY LIL FROG TO DO SO

ribbit

Very interesting!Thanx again Kermit!

Kermit, I still don't get your point and there is nothing new to pass on to Jug.

Once again...what I spoke to Jug about was: there is a reporter from California who is saying that photos there is a sort of "conspiracy" with members of the Persistence and she believes there was information and evidence gathered that has been with held from the family.

You say Beth saw them...I certainly believe that Beth saw them-no argument.

I believe the inferences are that members of the Persistence have evidence, including Natalee's body, and it was kept from the family or that the family knows and don't want to tell at the moment. That is the part that is in my mind absolutely rediculous and Jug confirmed. I don't know what the rest of the mumbo jumbo proves?
What is the point if there are photos Kyle kept???!! That means conspiracy?? thats just crazy to me. Sounds like renho baloney to me.

[johan555]

Johan - somewhere near #2 or between #2 & #3

not far from koen's house 

[ldstlou]

Are you sure that Jug has seen the photos posted yesterday,
and he is not thinking of the photos that Robin posted earlier
this year?

And when did Jug start speaking for Beth again   

Jug and Beth do not fight with each. They are still speaking with each other and if most knew the truth they would be very surprised at what the situation is between them at this very moment.  But to each his on in what you wish to believe.  I an through beating this dead horse...let's talk about the Greta stuff now.

All well and good.

But Beth was aware of the photos.

Apparently Jug was not. 

Now, carry on

Sharon I am not understanding what you are trying to say and why you are writing it in red? She was aware of the photos? Does that mean you believe she thinks there was a conspiracy by Kyle to hide evidence? You think that is what Beth believes?

Flag this message
email received
Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:46 PM
From:
"beth (I have edited her email)
To:
kermit ( I have edited my email)

NOTE the date and the response is "EMAILED RECEIVED", Please do no doubt I have the correspondence



Idstlou,
If Beth chose to not share the information with Jug, it's not my call. It is hers.
She HAS the pictures and information. These photos were NOT given to her or Dave by the Persistence crew/owner or FBI.

IF Jug would like to speak to me, please feel free to have him contact me.
I have ALL the documents and Proof of what I have posted as well as ALL of Kyles statements to me. I am more then happy to let Jug see them.
Beth has some of them already through myself as well as through private eye.
 
THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
Flag this message
Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
Add sender to Contacts
To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~




CORRESPONDENCE WITH KYLE ABOUT RED
From Kyle: march 18, 2008:
If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.
~Kyle

DID KYLE TURN OVER EVERYTHING TO THE FBI?
From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th. I[/b]


KYLE RETURNED TO THE U.S. AND TRIED TO SELL THE PHOTOS THAT WERE POSTED HERE YESTERDAY
From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."[/b]


As I stated before, if Jug wants to contact me and wants to have the copies of what I know, PLEASE tell him to do so. I would be VERY HAPPY LIL FROG TO DO SO

ribbit

Very interesting!Thanx again Kermit!

Kermit, I still don't get your point and there is nothing new to pass on to Jug.

Once again...what I spoke to Jug about was: there is a reporter from California who is saying that photos there is a sort of "conspiracy" with members of the Persistence and she believes there was information and evidence gathered that has been with held from the family.

You say Beth saw them...I certainly believe that Beth saw them-no argument.

I believe the inferences are that members of the Persistence have evidence, including Natalee's body, and it was kept from the family or that the family knows and don't want to tell at the moment. That is the part that is in my mind absolutely rediculous and Jug confirmed. I don't know what the rest of the mumbo jumbo proves?
What is the point if there are photos Kyle kept???!! That means conspiracy?? thats just crazy to me. Sounds like renho baloney to me.

so many rumors and conspiracies floating around, I just try and get down to the facts. One such rumor is that kermit is writing a book. Probably another rediculous statement, I take them all with a grain of salt. But the rumors and innuendo in regards to Tim Miller and members of the Persistence are just hurtful imho. Those people stopped their lives and busted their azzes looking for Natalee, and I believe that is the position Natalee's family takes.

[ldstlou]

THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
Flag this message
Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
Add sender to Contacts
To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~
 

you're kidding right?