Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 - 11/26/08

[always 1]

Was that blouse fabric easy to come by in Aruba???  Because I shop more than anyone and I have never seen one like it.  Turquoise, with stripes and polka dots???  Anyone.

I really don't know if it came from Aruba but Beth was able to get an exact blouse so it could be used by the FBI.

Thank you.

Always, I don't think it was purchased in Aruba. Natalee took it with her on her trip.

Ok.

[Noly]

I don't care what the reason is, if Kyle was trying to sell photos for money that is wrong! Anybody making money off this tragedy for any reason is wrong!

Why not give them to PDV or any other network for free? With the families approval of course. It would still keep it in the news.

why is it wrong? Was it wrong to have dateline on the ship? I am sure they paid. I mean this trip came to them at a great cost, they had every right to do what they wanted with the photos. They eliminated the trap as a place where Natalee was, turned over photos showing the evidence, they most certainly did have every right to do what they wanted with the rest.

my only concern is that it was aruban divers that collected the evidence.

where is the evidence?

did the FBI EVER get it????

[ldstlou]

THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
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Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
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To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~
 

you're kidding right?

NO. You think I am, um, what would be a good word that you might be thinking, dumb? Stupid? I just don't have the emails or back ups of evidence? PLEASE Idstlou, think about it. I would not have exposed this if I didn't have the evidence.

I don't think you are dumb at all. That was not what I was saying at all. You copy a response from Beth that says "sure". Sure to what? What was the question? Was the question do you want me to expose Aruba's cover up...if that is the question, my answer is SURE also.

[Nut44x4]

iirc Beth and Natalee went shopping before her trip. I think it (the blouse) was purchased then, in Alabama.

[Blue Moon]

I have to wonder why Peter DV wanted these pictures if not for the fact that he saw something in those pictures that looked like evidence.  And if evidence was in that trap then it is ALL gone now because the Aruban divers retrieved it ALL and took it with them.  The pictures are now the only thing to prove what was collected.

[Kermit]

Personally, I would like to see Kermit and OE come together on this board for the most important reason, Natalee.

Can you comprehend putting all out there for her and stop the courtroom drama. Who cares who did what at this point, let's just bring Natalee home, please?

Can we be honest for the sake of Natalee?

Wouldn't that make your big meal on Thursday taste just a little better?

I offered to allow him to do so. Everyone here saw that.
He is busy emailing other forums with information that is false.
Just like when Red confronted him, he wanted someone to help him "get Red off his back".

I thought of something funny to say, but I better not. Mrs Red might shoot me.

 

I don't see anything funny.
He minced words with Red. They had a disagreement, it was very public, nothing hidden there.
He minced words with many of us through out the trip. He had theories, and sometimes his theories changed. We all did. Why the attack on Kyle. He missed his wife's pregnancy to look for Natalee. He missed Holidays with his family. He worked long hard frustrating hours. He named his daughter after Natalee. He kept us posted, answered all of our questions, took some heat when we disagreed but he has always hung in there for the Monkeys, and for Natalee. So why the attack on him now?

Natalee's family missed a lot with her too.
While the people they trusted told them they would search and when they did, they withheld evidence,
tried to sell those images, to make money. AND you have photos of the evidence being retrieved from the cage where it is in the hands of Aruba divers only. NO evidence went to the FBI - until recently when Kyle told me he had been contacted. In the meantime, where is the loyalty to the family of Natalee? Where is the desire to expose what was seen by the Aruban divers? Alls Kyle had to do was contact the FBI with the evidence he knew about. He didn't. He withheld it. You may think that is okay because he named his child after Natalee, or he missed a holiday. I do not.

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

[AZSunny]

Johan - somewhere near #2 or between #2 & #3

That appears pretty far north to me if they were out from the resorts.  They are closer to the 4 and 5 marker I believe.

I am not smart enough to bring it here, but if you look at Kyle's blog,
I think that one of the first pictures he posted.... of the shipwreck.. is
the Arishi Wreck with the Crab Trap noted.

Thanks Magnolia,  you are correct. 

[Kermit]

I have to wonder why Peter DV wanted these pictures if not for the fact that he saw something in those pictures that looked like evidence.  And if evidence was in that trap then it is ALL gone now because the Aruban divers retrieved it ALL and took it with them.  The pictures are now the only thing to prove what was collected.

That is what I think too.

[johan555]

I don't care what the reason is, if Kyle was trying to sell photos for money that is wrong! Anybody making money off this tragedy for any reason is wrong!

Why not give them to PDV or any other network for free? With the families approval of course. It would still keep it in the news.

why is it wrong? Was it wrong to have dateline on the ship? I am sure they paid. I mean this trip came to them at a great cost, they had every right to do what they wanted with the photos. They eliminated the trap as a place where Natalee was, turned over photos showing the evidence, they most certainly did have every right to do what they wanted with the rest.

my only concern is that it was aruban divers that collected the evidence.

where is the evidence?

did the FBI EVER get it????

the second dive was 8 days later

[ldstlou]

I don't care what the reason is, if Kyle was trying to sell photos for money that is wrong! Anybody making money off this tragedy for any reason is wrong!

Why not give them to PDV or any other network for free? With the families approval of course. It would still keep it in the news.

why is it wrong? Was it wrong to have dateline on the ship? I am sure they paid. I mean this trip came to them at a great cost, they had every right to do what they wanted with the photos. They eliminated the trap as a place where Natalee was, turned over photos showing the evidence, they most certainly did have every right to do what they wanted with the rest.

my only concern is that it was aruban divers that collected the evidence.

where is the evidence?

did the FBI EVER get it????

that's a great question.

What does that have to do with Kyle. And I agree whole heartedly.
My question is this, is Kyle is being accused of covering up evidence? Is that the bottom line? If so, where is the proof? It certainly wasn't anywhere in the outline Kermit posted.
A man restructures his company after is goes into Bankruptcy, that is exactly what bankruptcy is for. His companies goes public and sells shares..that is what companies do. Photos were sold, that was their right. Not all of the photos were made public? Well I think a total of what....10-12 were made public now...out of probably thousands upon thousands that were taken..what does that prove these 6 photos. And are you saying Tim Miller is the expert at finding missing persons but yet he was wrong on this cage? Really?

[always 1]

iirc Beth and Natalee went shopping before her trip. I think it (the blouse) was purchased then, in Alabama.

See, that is the problem, and I don't want to get into trouble talking about it, never mind, I'm not going to bring it up again.  I will just let it go.

[Kermit]

THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
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Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
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To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~
 

you're kidding right?

NO. You think I am, um, what would be a good word that you might be thinking, dumb? Stupid? I just don't have the emails or back ups of evidence? PLEASE Idstlou, think about it. I would not have exposed this if I didn't have the evidence.

I don't think you are dumb at all. That was not what I was saying at all. You copy a response from Beth that says "sure". Sure to what? What was the question? Was the question do you want me to expose Aruba's cover up...if that is the question, my answer is SURE also.

LOL I'm laughing at myself. How can I be a reporter when I can't communicate well.

SEE the title of the email I sent to her? Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Her response was YES.

You see, she had already been given the pictures I posted here. I sent them to her.
So she would know what was going on.

[Tamikosmom]

TWO SHIPS???

Initially Tim Miller led us to believe that there would be two ships search the Aruban waters for Natalee Holloway's remains.

Janet
_____

FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."


DANA PRETZER
June 8, 2007

MILLER:  How can you put a timeline on it but you know with the size of these ships, the technology that we're going over there with, we're optimistic. These ships are actually equipped (inaudible) incredible company that's offering these services and again we're going to be interviewing them next week and it's something we've been wanting to make happen, for somebody to step forward. I've been talking to them since December ....

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/06/08/the-dana-pretzer-show-friday-june-8th-2007-special-guests-tim-miller-robert-peters-janice-smolinski/


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

MILLER: ... Gerold Dompig actually told us when Dave and I was over there; that he felt that Natalee was out in the water, that the night the fishermen's hut was broken into, a knife was stolen, a rope was stolen and a large crab trap was stolen.

Gerold Dompig's words were "Natalee was put in that crab trap, they put rocks in it and they took her out 3 to 5 miles and she's 800 to 1,000 feet deep" and we always thought about the water anyhow.

When Dave and I were over there we actually found the boat we truly feel took Natalee out to sea ...

TWO SHIPS??

Rob
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #480 on: March 20, 2008, 09:14:32 PM »

Kyle, I have a question.

Initially when the search was announced there was indication that TWO ships were going to be used.

One 265 feet and the other 340 feet. How could those ships be justified when the Persistence was 'over kill'?

In fact many people blogged about the size of these ships and wonder if it was economically feasible. Was there a re-direct in which ship(s) would be used?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367237#msg367237


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #484 on: March 20, 2008, 09:27:54 PM »

First, WOW I haven't heard anything about two ships, or ships of that size being used in the search. I don't know where this information came from.  The Persistence was the right boat for the job.  Let me explain over kill.  Over kill was when we were finished using the capabilities intrinsic to the Persistence.  This includes a geophysical suite, namely side scan sonar, magnetometer, and bathymetric mapping abilities.  Once this portion of the work was complete, we no longer needed these capabilities. The information that came out early on about these tw boats you mentioned... I have not seen... and I was involved in the planning. 
There was a re-direct in which ship would be used before the Persistence.  I'm unsure of the boat that was to be used, but it withdrew at the last minute during mobilization if I'm not mistaken.  If memory serves, it was a similar size to the Persistence.  I'm sure someone here within minutes of the posting will correct me and post all the information on the boat.  It may have been the Apache.  Not sure.  Either way, the Persistence was just right for the job.  However, it isn't a ROV boat even though we used a small inspection class ROV with it.  It also lacks a dynamic positioning system enabling it to "hover" over a fixed position using bow and stern thrusters.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367241;topicseen#msg367241

[WhiskeyGirl]

It just seems like the main thing here should be Natalee and not who told whom what and who made money or expects to make money off the backs of Natalee, Beth and Dave but those who have worked hard to gather data and worked physically finding Natalee in earnest, if they want to sell pictures, by golly, you gots to make some money someway, somehow, and even the sleaze bag journalists and lawyers deserve money along the way if they work for it (well, maybe not them but..)

Just because someone buys the rights to pictures, doesn't mean they will ever publish them or use them.  Are the of any value any more since they've been all over the internet?

What ever happened to Stanley Z's book?  I heard someone bought the rights to that and prevented its publication.  May not be the right theory, it may be why no seems to have a copy.

Who else may have tried to sell those pictures?  Kermit?  Arubans? 

Do the pictures help us find Natalee?  Will they make the DNA appear from those bones?  Will those pictures bring some answers? 

Sometimes things aren't as they appear.  In the end, what value did those pictures add to any discussion?  Do they come with a DNA test?

just my humble opinions

[Keepthefaith]

I have to wonder why Peter DV wanted these pictures if not for the fact that he saw something in those pictures that looked like evidence.  And if evidence was in that trap then it is ALL gone now because the Aruban divers retrieved it ALL and took it with them.  The pictures are now the only thing to prove what was collected.

That is what I think too.

Aruban divers collected the cage contents.WoW....

Is anyone able to identify who those particular people were Kermit???

[Altruist]

Kyle was not attacked here at SM from what I could see.  He was asked some questions based on some of the information that was being brought out on the board by Kermit & CLW & what he felt comfortable answering, he did.  Don't understand the reaction at all by Kyle.

Kermit asked Kyle if it was OK for Kermit to bring out what has been keeping kept confidential (seemed both of them knew what was being inferred) was ok to discuss here at the message board first said to Kermit he to do what he wanted & when Kermit asked for a definitive YES, after a bit Kyle said no & that he was done posting at SM.  Don't understand the reaction at all by Kyle.


I find that odd behavior, myself.  Have been assertively treated, due to miscommunication or other reasons but it never caused me to blame SM or to choose not to participate at SM.  I certainly would not post at another board referencing posters at SM for God's sake.  4th grade was a long time ago for all of us.

[Kermit]

from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

[WhiskeyGirl]

THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
Flag this message
Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
Add sender to Contacts
To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~
 

you're kidding right?

NO. You think I am, um, what would be a good word that you might be thinking, dumb? Stupid? I just don't have the emails or back ups of evidence? PLEASE Idstlou, think about it. I would not have exposed this if I didn't have the evidence.

I don't think you are dumb at all. That was not what I was saying at all. You copy a response from Beth that says "sure". Sure to what? What was the question? Was the question do you want me to expose Aruba's cover up...if that is the question, my answer is SURE also.

LOL I'm laughing at myself. How can I be a reporter when I can't communicate well.

SEE the title of the email I sent to her? Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Her response was YES.

You see, she had already been given the pictures I posted here. I sent them to her.
So she would know what was going on.

Is it possible to count the number of potential NH case related coverups by Aruba?  The Netherlands?

Some could probably spend the rest of their lives and still find other coverups to document!

Which one(s)?

just my humble opinions

[AZSunny]

Hi,

Something is screwy with that FBI report IMO.

Natalee was wearing a denim skirt, not a denim blouse.  Her blouse was that cotton multi-colored affair.

Of course the article doesn't say it was denim they tested.  Where did that come from?

Remember there was that piece of fabric found that looked exactly like her blouse fabric.  Maybe this is creative journalism as they don't want to let out anything pertinent to the public.

there was not only  a denim skirt in that cage 

And the FBI said they tested the blouse fabric and it was not a match.  They made no mention of the skirt fabric having been RECEIVED nor tested.  No mention of any bones or skull being RECEIVED or tested.

[Brandi]

Very sorry to intrude here, but Klaas .. I have a bit of an emergency. I sent you email to your hotmail account. Please check it.

Sorry again for this intrusion.