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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 - 12/3/08  (Read 189031 times)
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Rob
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« Reply #320 on: November 27, 2008, 02:45:17 PM »

Hi Rob,

Wishing you a Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure I've ever heard an official in Aruba asked how all the charges against Natalee could be brought without a body?

Of course we know, but the point is we need to demand they tell us. Joran's death or incarceration is only good to a point and it protects too many guilty people.

I think JQK is correct in taking the angle that she was sold, if only to get answers.

Hi Deetch, Happy Thanksgiving to you and Adrian. I hope you guys are together and enjoying some time. 

The only angle that matters is the truth. If there is no evidence to believe Natalee was sold, and I surely don't think there is, then all that does is create more vengeance, more heart ache for Natalee's family and allows Joran to control the outcome.

The truth is the truth no matter where it leads, and that's what we are all about here.
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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« Reply #321 on: November 27, 2008, 02:46:38 PM »

Always,

No I don't. But I want Aruba to tell us how they KNOW she is dead.

They're arrogance and corruption is beyond anything I think I could have ever imagined.

She's dead, now go away? It's not acceptable.

I believe Jan van der straaten has seen her dead body. How can we have another police chief (Dompig) say her body was moved several times, on and on.

I want all of these people held accountable, all of them.
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« Reply #322 on: November 27, 2008, 02:49:48 PM »

Thanks Rob,

But look at what Aruba is doing, they use "disappeared" and "dead" when it suits them.

They have to be held accountable to something and I think the sold angle can add pressure.

Make them prove she is dead, if they can't then we should pursue the fact that Joran's story may have some validity.

We need to pressure the officials to explain either dead or disappeared. They are being allowed to do neither.
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« Reply #323 on: November 27, 2008, 02:54:47 PM »

Rob do you think this  a criminal gang is related to the porn & Video  world ?
Rape movies,bangbus etc ?


Hi Johan - it's all intertwined to some degree. No doubt. Water seeks it's own level.
Hi Rob, I have always appreciated your analytical mind, so maybe you can tell me how they kept the water out of those bags under the ocean?
I don't know, the only shows where I have seen them collect things from the ocean floor, they would put water in the bag and float them to the top.

1.  Either there was water in those bags

or

2.  The bags were vaccuum sealed because any air inside of them would result in them floating...wouldn't they?
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I am A1 because I am saucy!!!
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« Reply #324 on: November 27, 2008, 02:58:47 PM »

Thanks Rob,

But look at what Aruba is doing, they use "disappeared" and "dead" when it suits them.

They have to be held accountable to something and I think the sold angle can add pressure.

Make them prove she is dead, if they can't then we should pursue the fact that Joran's story may have some validity.

We need to pressure the officials to explain either dead or disappeared. They are being allowed to do neither.

In their myopic world - sold, sexually abused daily and alive is better than drugged, gang raped and murdered.

Allowing Natalee to be the victim and ALIVE in the publics' mind is better in the long run.

Again, you need to use reverse logic when dealing with these idiots.
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« Reply #325 on: November 27, 2008, 03:01:48 PM »

Translation: Dutch » English
       
27 Nov, 2008, 14:39 (GMT -04:00)



The conversation recorded between Joran and his father recently by Fox News to be placed outside, do not seem to be authentic.

ORANGE CITY / NEW YORK - "Joran is sick and for enough money so you get an interview with him regularly." With these words suggested Joe Tacopina, the American lawyer of Joran van der Sloot, that Fox News dollars with him to talk has received in Thailand. In a show of the American news channel earlier this week, told Joran to the well-known journalist Greta Van Susteren the umpteenth version of the disappearance of Holloway Nathalee. Now, the girl disappeared are sold to an Aruban people smuggler.

Although it is already in the interview that appeared on Van Susteren did not believe the new statement, they still keep cautious to adopt. Her doubts were eliminated in the first instance by telephone recordings that Joran himself had made of conversations between him and his father, Paul van der Sloot. Now they want a voice sample of the voice of Paul, so that they can monitor conversations on authenticity.

Joran tells during interviews that the case "Saturday is' everything and wants to 'prevent'. His father recommends that off and says that he must "persevere". "You have no other choice. (...) You should also think of us. "" Yes, I do too, but even if they find the girl, they can also see that I have done no pain, 'says Joran. Paul then to his son: "What you've done is quite bad. Human trafficking is punishable heavy. But there should be a moment that it is. You can not talk about it, you know that? "

Presidential Elections
Tacopina lawyer wonders why Greta Van Susteren talks (yet) has transferred to the authorities, "such as the FBI." "You've already received in July even though when you said: imagine that she is still alive?" According to Van Susteren while she waited because of the crowds around the presidential elections in the U.S.. "I got this in my spare time, in the weekends, separately still working on it!" For Tacopina, who has not really wanted to come in its program, the answer seems unsatisfactory. "Therefore, you must transfer." However, after insisting he do to help a voice sample of Paul van der Sloot.

The public prosecutor in Aruba was unavailable for comment this morning about the recorded telephone conversations. That seems to Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf has to be successful yesterday. Principal Officer Hans Mos is in gequoot: "That has a soft g," he says on the voice of Paul van der Sloot. It would not be the same as soft g Joran included in the talks of his father. Mos: "I am now really nothing more to see."

Fox News has Paul van der Sloot at his office in Aruba confronted with the recordings. The lawyer would not respond in substance. Nathalee's mother, Beth Hollway, would also not interfere with the content of this version to get going. "Many elements of this story agree with the other, but I would not really thinking. I do not think they are more alive, "she told against Greta Van Susteren.

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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #326 on: November 27, 2008, 03:03:37 PM »

But why are they so special that our government would not demand answers and keep demanding them until we have the right one?  If Natalee were a lost soldier, we would have an answer!!!!!
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« Reply #327 on: November 27, 2008, 03:32:17 PM »

But why are they so special that our government would not demand answers and keep demanding them until we have the right one?  If Natalee were a lost soldier, we would have an answer!!!!!

A1 ... my youngest son's wise Dutch American FIL believes that Aruba's close ties with Hugo Chavez is at the root of both the Netherland and the United States' tolerance in regards to the corrupt Aruban administration.

Hugo Chávez is so dangerious to the security of world. He has a goal ... which IS NOT hidden and will ultimately threaten the security of United States of America. He had a plan is to acquire one small nation at a time ... building up strength throughout the Caribbean. Think about it ... Aruba is the stepping stone to American ... Cuba is a stone throw from the mainland.

The United States administration knows this yet ... it continues to appease ... tolerate this dictator. This approach only makes what was once the most feared/respected nation on the face of the earth appear weak and ... gives this dictator who is drunk with power more confidence to further his global agenda.

It is a truly sad day when this dictator is allowed to speak before the UN referring to the President of the United States as the "devil" and ... have no fear of retaliation.

If the United States goes down ... so does every appeasing/tolerant democratic nation in the world ... Canada included.

The free world has to wake up ... eft-wing dictators and Islam are gaining strength through our weaknesses.

“The reality is that we must find peace through strength.”
Ronald Reagan, 1983


Janet

+++++++++++++++

Chavez: Bush 'devil'; U.S. 'on the way down'
POSTED: 1726 GMT (0126 HKT), September 21, 2006


http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/20/chavez.un/index.html
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Anna
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« Reply #328 on: November 27, 2008, 03:42:32 PM »

"Sweeps" happen four times a year.  I do wonder why Greta sat on this for so long.  Don't think it was for the ratings at all but more to do with her own personal schedule for covering the elections which likely got higher ratings until they were concluded.

She also has all those recordings of Paulus voice so why does she need another one?  Perhaps she means one over the phone?

I don't have strong opinions on any of these recent fights going on as in my opinion, none of it really changes what happened to Natalee.

Be that as it may, the pipeline Oduber was blathering about was for natural gas to be piped directly from Venezuela and had nothing to do with the crude oil refinery.  I always thought it was funny when Arubans claimed to provide most of the oil for the U.S. from that one little refinery, totally missing the hundreds we have just off shore.

Anyway, I do like to see Joran babbling and especially got a kick out of his naming Paulus as being complicit in human trafficking plots.  I also enjoyed hearing Steve Cohen backpedaling or trying to do so.  Guess I still like any and all coverage by anybody except Renee Geilen.

Any way you look at it, the tourism for Aruba is pretty much toast with the economy as it is.  Add to that the negative publicity and once again I promote our own wonderful Gulf Coast beaches.  Alabama's has REAL white sand and is not manmade and fake.

And with all of this plus two or four, depending on who says, new witnesses, I have yet to see even the slightest movement on the part of the Aruban OM to do one thing about any of this.  How we spur them into motion concerns me much more than all the intrigue and sniping at each other.  Not that it isn't entertaining and all that. . . .

Hope everyone is having a very nice Thanksgiving for even in these hard financial times, we have much for which to be truly thankful not the least of which is being born into this wonderful country of ours.

Anna
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #329 on: November 27, 2008, 03:48:00 PM »

URGENT 

i have a problem with that Cage
this is what the man at the F-huts  said :

The Cage

The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings > and when we look at the pics  i don't see hexagonal openings! so is this another cage ?
we have a discussion (on Fok)about that at the moment with Duikkie 

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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #330 on: November 27, 2008, 03:57:30 PM »

I have a question for everyone.

After seeing the latest interview of Joran and how the Aruban police were paid off to look the other way would send your child to Aruba for vacation.

Key words are human trafficking (kidnapping and selling our kids).

WHETHER TRUE OR NOT THIS WILL CATCH PEOPLES EYE.

Hope all my monkey friends are having a wonderful Day of Thanksgiving.

If this was the first thing I had ever heard about the happenings on Aruba I would never step foot on that island.  Especially with my beautiful 24 year old daughter.

No Justice for Natalee

No Tourism for Aruba

No exceptions

I Stand With The Girl

God Bless you all.

Exactly Snoopy.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.


I agree and I too, Stand With The Girl!
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"Natalee deserves to return to her country...."
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Fly free with the angels KK!

We will never forget you sweet Caylee!
San
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« Reply #331 on: November 27, 2008, 04:10:00 PM »

"Sweeps" happen four times a year.  I do wonder why Greta sat on this for so long.  Don't think it was for the ratings at all but more to do with her own personal schedule for covering the elections which likely got higher ratings until they were concluded.

She also has all those recordings of Paulus voice so why does she need another one?  Perhaps she means one over the phone?

I don't have strong opinions on any of these recent fights going on as in my opinion, none of it really changes what happened to Natalee.

Be that as it may, the pipeline Oduber was blathering about was for natural gas to be piped directly from Venezuela and had nothing to do with the crude oil refinery.  I always thought it was funny when Arubans claimed to provide most of the oil for the U.S. from that one little refinery, totally missing the hundreds we have just off shore.

Anyway, I do like to see Joran babbling and especially got a kick out of his naming Paulus as being complicit in human trafficking plots.  I also enjoyed hearing Steve Cohen backpedaling or trying to do so.  Guess I still like any and all coverage by anybody except Renee Geilen.

Any way you look at it, the tourism for Aruba is pretty much toast with the economy as it is.  Add to that the negative publicity and once again I promote our own wonderful Gulf Coast beaches.  Alabama's has REAL white sand and is not manmade and fake.

And with all of this plus two or four, depending on who says, new witnesses, I have yet to see even the slightest movement on the part of the Aruban OM to do one thing about any of this.  How we spur them into motion concerns me much more than all the intrigue and sniping at each other.  Not that it isn't entertaining and all that. . . .

Hope everyone is having a very nice Thanksgiving for even in these hard financial times, we have much for which to be truly thankful not the least of which is being born into this wonderful country of ours.
Anna

I agree.

There is a plan here and I will watch and wait.  In my heart I feel Greta would have never done this right before Thanksgiving.
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« Reply #332 on: November 27, 2008, 04:16:36 PM »

Here are the recently filed docs in the Dr. Phil vs Kalpoe case.  I'm not going to do screen captures unless you guys really need them.

Pages 59 -67 of the KaySkeeters doc is pretty interresting 
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« Reply #333 on: November 27, 2008, 04:40:23 PM »

Thanks Rob,

But look at what Aruba is doing, they use "disappeared" and "dead" when it suits them.

They have to be held accountable to something and I think the sold angle can add pressure.

Make them prove she is dead, if they can't then we should pursue the fact that Joran's story may have some validity.

We need to pressure the officials to explain either dead or disappeared. They are being allowed to do neither.

In their myopic world - sold, sexually abused daily and alive is better than drugged, gang raped and murdered.

Allowing Natalee to be the victim and ALIVE in the publics' mind is better in the long run.

Again, you need to use reverse logic when dealing with these idiots.


Sad...very sad indeed.....

Rob, I hope your turkey didn't get trapped in the oven, and I hope you got to eat it and not your doggie....
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"Natalee deserves to return to her country...."
    ~ Beth Holloway Twitty ~

Fly free with the angels KK!

We will never forget you sweet Caylee!
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #334 on: November 27, 2008, 04:47:31 PM »

Here are the recently filed docs in the Dr. Phil vs Kalpoe case.  I'm not going to do screen captures unless you guys really need them.

Pages 59 -67 of the KaySkeeters doc is pretty interresting 

Thanks Klaas, yes they are VERY interesting!
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #335 on: November 27, 2008, 06:01:04 PM »

Here are the recently filed docs in the Dr. Phil vs Kalpoe case.  I'm not going to do screen captures unless you guys really need them.

Pages 59 -67 of the KaySkeeters doc is pretty interresting 

Thanks Klaas, yes they are VERY interesting!

Yes, Very interesting!  Thanks Klaas
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« Reply #336 on: November 27, 2008, 06:58:44 PM »





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« Reply #337 on: November 27, 2008, 07:27:41 PM »

THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD!!

The Betrayal of Natalee

 Dale Netherton
November 27, 2008

The recent interview of Joran Van Der Sloot, that was recanted ,opened the door to the most plausible explanation of what happened on that evening in May in Aruba. That door was introduced far earlier and should have been examined but is only now considered after a known liar tosses out the scenario to a blinder driven press that chose to focus on murder and an unfound body. The press can no longer announce with unfounded conviction that Natalee is dead. The credibility of Joran will not place this explanation of the event on solid ground but the way is now clear to reexamine why this is the most plausible explanation and now needs to be more thoroughly investigated.

I invite the reader to start by looking at my essay, "An Evaded Natalee Holloway Theory" published on March 24, 2006 at http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/7184 . Had this analysis been considered we would be much farther along in the investigation than we are today? It was this willingness to jump to a solution without integrating the known facts that may have cost Natalee her life or at least a greater portion of it. You may ask why would the media be so obtuse to avoid an obvious possibility? They knew that if such a scenario as Joran unfolded did occur they would be left with mud on their face. Evidently they either discounted the possibility as remote enough to ignore or they were so wound up in their preconceived notions that they couldn´t think outside the box.

The issue of Beth Twitty's (Natalee´s Mother) reaction and demeanor has been dealt with and her latest reaction is consistent with that analysis offered at http://www.americanchronicle.com/spool/articles/mine/view/67407 entitled " A Piece of the Puzzle?" The evasion of Joran and his interviews that reveal someone with a threat on his life or his family is consistent. Putting something out to try to exonerate himself and then recanting is not just a simple game but a reaction to a threat about something he may have said that could implicate some major player in this den of iniquity. This leads to the other evasion the media is intent on propagating. The involvement of the Aruba authorities and their role in human trafficking. Joran spilled the beans big time when he mentioned his father buying off some police officers. This statement opens the door to official corruption and you can bet the authorities are not going to implicate themselves. When this dawned on them Joran was undoubtedly contacted and told to deny the truth of the interview. You could believe he simply made up the whole thing so he could deny it just to make himself less credible. Again the issue of motive arises and for Joran there was no bag of money to entice him to give an interview that he would later deny. That kills future interviews.

This stumbling and evading of what should have been a straightforward investigation is the cause of a girl who may be alive living in a hell on earth for years without anyone seriously trying to find her or even considering she might still be alive. Did this enter Joran´s mind? Was his interview an attempt at atonement or merely a way to see if he could put someone on the trail to find Natalee and clear him of any involvement in what might turn out to be a murder? Passing Natalee off to thugs that might cause her demise would make him an accomplice. Especially if he remained silent. That may have been the impetus for his participation in the interview. The interview may have only awakened those who do not want to be investigated. They may have told him as much.

The truth is the pace and the obstacles of this case are being downplayed. Relying on the Aruba authorities is a first class stalemate. When a prosecutor refuses to even look at an interview tape of a confession you have to suspect there must be some reason for it. As before, anything that leads toward the truth and the exposure of the players is thwarted by stalling, erroneous conclusions, false testimony, futile searches and evasion. This pattern can have only one explanation. That explanation is that these people have something to hide. Who will call them out on this? Certainly not the media because they need absolute proof such as a rat within who comes forward. The implication could be editorialized and the pattern reviewed and questioned. Do you see this? No and you probably won´t.

The word needs to be spread to Natalee even if it takes the form of a note in a bottle at sea that there are people who believe she is alive and can be saved. Even a false confession by Joran ( if it was false) can be a jumping off point that leaves the possibility of hope for Natalee. This is the banter that needs to spread now that it has been concretely identified and brought to the center stage of awareness. Speak out in what ever way you can for a girl that was a victim of a crime that can only be solved and justice achieved by the voices that ask that the truth be determined and all those involved named. Natalee is the poster child now of the crusade to address human trafficking. Let´s not disappoint her any further.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/82888
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« Reply #338 on: November 27, 2008, 07:39:00 PM »

But why are they so special that our government would not demand answers and keep demanding them until we have the right one?  If Natalee were a lost soldier, we would have an answer!!!!!

Lost soldiers are sent by the government on a mission and the government is theirs and they are the property of the government sotaspeak when they are on a mission ordered by said government.  To the best of my knowledge, I never heard that Natalee was sent on a mission by our government.  Aruba is a sovereign nation and we have to respect that.  We cannot invade a nation for one person who chose to go there and who did not return.  Otherwise, we would be invading every nation on earth.  As much as it hurts, Natalee is not the only person who leaves this country, never to return or be heard from again but she has received more publicity than most because her parents were so diligent to keep her in the forefront and her story as did Greta.  Many have done much to help; the ball is in Aruba's court and we can choose to go there on vacation or go elsewhere and that is what you do, you hit them in the pocketbook.
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« Reply #339 on: November 27, 2008, 08:01:49 PM »

But why are they so special that our government would not demand answers and keep demanding them until we have the right one?  If Natalee were a lost soldier, we would have an answer!!!!!

Lost soldiers are sent by the government on a mission and the government is theirs and they are the property of the government sotaspeak when they are on a mission ordered by said government.  To the best of my knowledge, I never heard that Natalee was sent on a mission by our government.  Aruba is a sovereign nation and we have to respect that.  We cannot invade a nation for one person who chose to go there and who did not return.  Otherwise, we would be invading every nation on earth.  As much as it hurts, Natalee is not the only person who leaves this country, never to return or be heard from again but she has received more publicity than most because her parents were so diligent to keep her in the forefront and her story as did Greta.  Many have done much to help; the ball is in Aruba's court and we can choose to go there on vacation or go elsewhere and that is what you do, you hit them in the pocketbook.

Good post Tyler.
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