Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 - 12/3/08

[Lala'sMom]

Shango anyone? 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage
To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune
The Arawaks are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the cowboys
But the loot remains hidden
And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys



Both Joran and Paulus are involved...Joran has now tried to involve Paulus directly in his human trafficking schemes by saying Paulus paid off two policemen.  Shango fits just about anything. 

OK, well, I will just go back to my corner and read some more Shango...

[klaasend]

Hello Klass!Hope you had a wonderful Thanxgiving!Can you do  me a favor as i don't know how to bring the pictures of the cage with the zip-lock bags??From Mum's post Kyle said internet connectivity was down for 2 days on Jan 9th??Can you bring the picture's over,as well as post OE's(kyle) Log entry about the internet being down for 2 days.Make sense Klass?TIA.If the contents of the cage were removed on the 7th,as well as pictures taken is it still possible to dive in seas that bady???

Kermit's post:

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/











January 7 2008 Aruban dive - inside of trap after evidence collection
 






The following are items can be identified from the pictures above

DID you notice:
*blue denim like fabric - confirmed by Hans Mos and Dolph Richardson
*skull/rock/sponge looking item
*blue tarp outside of cage this suggests savenging - confirmed by Hans Mos and Dolph Richardson
* raised sandbar that came to rest on items beneath it


QUESTIONS YOU SHOULD BE ASKING
The fbi report did not mention the blue denim fabric. Did they sample something different then what  ONLY ARUBAN DIVERS collected ON JAN. 7th?
THE ARUBAN divers took it all.

Remember, the Aruban investigators turned blood into chocolate!

The Aruban divers were the ONLY divers on the Jan. 7th dive.
Tim Miller was ushered off the boat.
The ROV unbeknown to the divers was filming.
The blue fabric swayed in the current as did another bag containing something very light weight.
The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.


This is a picture from Natalee standing on the beach and rotated and scaled to the image to matching the body form inside the trap. It matches the end of the skirt identically to what was seen in the cage

[Keepthefaith]

Sorry if this was discussed, but came across it while looking for indication of dates for Tim being of the boat in the thread Blonde started…

Anyone have any info on the dates or time span, please.  TIA

From Kyle’s Log…I believe

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

Sun 06-Jan 1635
The seas abated sufficiently to maintain our progress through the night and into the early morning hours. The Persistence arrived dockside around 0430 hrs this morning.
Snipped

Wed 09-Jan 1816 hrs
All Internet connectivity was lost for two days due to rough seas and equipment failure. The old adage "No news is good news" only applies on land. Offshore, the 'Law of the Sea' rules and no news usually just means "lost contact". The seas were 6-8ft with the occasional 12+ft swell. The past two nights were spent conducting a bathymetry-only survey of the new grid. The new grid more than doubles the original search area. If completed, the total area thoroughly searched will be 80% the size of Aruba. Currently, the seas are calm relative to what we've been experiencing. The four digits posted on the echo-sounder is a reminder of the limits being put to the test.

Where the contents of the removed?Where the pictures of the zip-lock bags not taken on Jan 7th???Mum??

Was eatin some pie so sorry for the terrible grammer.LOL.Were the contents of the cage removed on Jan 7th MuM??The pictures of the content of the cage were taken on Jan 7th correct??

Hello Klass!Hope you had a wonderful Thanxgiving!Can you do  me a favor as i don't know how to bring the pictures of the cage with the zip-lock bags??From Mum's post Kyle said internet connectivity was down for 2 days on Jan 9th??Can you bring the picture's over,as well as post OE's(kyle) Log entry about the internet being down for 2 days.Make sense Klass?TIA.If the contents of the cage were removed on the 7th,as well as pictures taken is it still possible to dive in seas that bady???

Bump...

[Keepthefaith]

Hello Klass!Hope you had a wonderful Thanxgiving!Can you do  me a favor as i don't know how to bring the pictures of the cage with the zip-lock bags??From Mum's post Kyle said internet connectivity was down for 2 days on Jan 9th??Can you bring the picture's over,as well as post OE's(kyle) Log entry about the internet being down for 2 days.Make sense Klass?TIA.If the contents of the cage were removed on the 7th,as well as pictures taken is it still possible to dive in seas that bady???

Kermit's post:

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/











January 7 2008 Aruban dive - inside of trap after evidence collection
 






The following are items can be identified from the pictures above

DID you notice:
*blue denim like fabric - confirmed by Hans Mos and Dolph Richardson
*skull/rock/sponge looking item
*blue tarp outside of cage this suggests savenging - confirmed by Hans Mos and Dolph Richardson
* raised sandbar that came to rest on items beneath it


QUESTIONS YOU SHOULD BE ASKING
The fbi report did not mention the blue denim fabric. Did they sample something different then what  ONLY ARUBAN DIVERS collected ON JAN. 7th?
THE ARUBAN divers took it all.

Remember, the Aruban investigators turned blood into chocolate!

The Aruban divers were the ONLY divers on the Jan. 7th dive.
Tim Miller was ushered off the boat.
The ROV unbeknown to the divers was filming.
The blue fabric swayed in the current as did another bag containing something very light weight.
The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.


This is a picture from Natalee standing on the beach and rotated and scaled to the image to matching the body form inside the trap. It matches the end of the skirt identically to what was seen in the cage

Thanx Klass!Thinking out loud.

"Wed 09-Jan 1816 hrs
All Internet connectivity was lost for two days due to rough seas and equipment failure."

This is not making SENSE to me????This make sense to you klass,as well as anyone else??

[Tylergal]

Frank, just based on what I can get from the article, it is talking about Greta's interest in the Holloway case being exceeded only by her interest in the VP campaign of Sarah Palin, whose home she visited.  Now that is  very, very loose translation and I only speak a little Spanish and a little French and not much Farsi and/or Arab (you didn't want or need to know all that, LOL) but it expands extensively on Greta's interests in the two, or at least that is what I ascertain from it.

Lala's, no need to slink away, I think you are right but another thing, but I think Joran has been a mediator at his home for years.  I think he had to be the grown-up who was not grown-up.  I think both his parents were very immature adults who had lived radical hippie/yippie lifestyles and grew into immature yuppies who never got beyond a maturity level of about 4 years of age.  Joran was put in a position to be an adult and mediate their differences.  He was unable to handle it but he learned all the ways to stroke Anita to keep her happy and calm her down when Paulus who did a lot of bad and probably illegal things made her angry.  It seems Anita's and Paulus' relationship is built on a mistrust of one another's life skills, particularly parenting.  Perhaps they each had dysfunctional childhoods but they have ruined the lives of 3 children, and particularly that of Joran.  If I did not have such disdain for him, I would actually feel sorry for him because he has certainly been abused in some very significant and unseemly ways.  No one cares for him beyond what he can do for them, which was to keep peace in the household and probably they moved him into his own apartment (granny apartment), only to bring him in at such time they needed him to calm the waters of dissent between Paulus and Anita, the middle-aged hippies who felt the world owed them.

[MumInOhio]

Hi Keepthefaith...I am not sure that they needed the internet connection to take their pics? Really clueless on this?

Just thought it was coincidental that their connection was down around the date of the Arubans diving. No outside contact.

[MumInOhio]

Sorry if this was discussed, but came across it while looking for indication of dates for Tim being of the boat in the thread Blonde started…

Anyone have any info on the dates or time span, please.  TIA

From Kyle’s Log…I believe

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

Sun 06-Jan 1635
The seas abated sufficiently to maintain our progress through the night and into the early morning hours. The Persistence arrived dockside around 0430 hrs this morning.
Snipped

Wed 09-Jan 1816 hrs
All Internet connectivity was lost for two days due to rough seas and equipment failure. The old adage "No news is good news" only applies on land. Offshore, the 'Law of the Sea' rules and no news usually just means "lost contact". The seas were 6-8ft with the occasional 12+ft swell. The past two nights were spent conducting a bathymetry-only survey of the new grid. The new grid more than doubles the original search area. If completed, the total area thoroughly searched will be 80% the size of Aruba. Currently, the seas are calm relative to what we've been experiencing. The four digits posted on the echo-sounder is a reminder of the limits being put to the test.

Mum, the question was asked, but I do not believe exact dates were confirmed.  Someone posted a screen shot from the Dateline program of an email Dave had from the contact in Nicaragua dated January 12, 2008 (don't recall who posted).  I just finished watching clips on YouTube of that show and again saw that email but the only thing said during the program was that Dave asked Tim to check out the lead sometime in January. 

There was also no date mentioned in the show after December 30, 2007 where the thumbs down signal was given.  Hanson only stated that the Aruban crew dove following to retrieve from the cage...no specific date mentioned, to my knowledge.

2NJS...Thanks...All I could remember was January.

Was there a timestamp on the one with Tim peering, saying he thought it looked like a skull. TIA

[Frank]

Tylegal,

I feel sorry for Joran only in the sense that he probably is pissed that he is shouldering all the burden of others as well.

He is actually protecting this "house of cards" by himself, when there are so many others guilty in this case. I do think it's entirely possible and plausible that his father is more guilty than he is. I really believe Paulus, premeditated Paulus is the instigator in Natalee's abduction and her death.

It sure sounds like Joran is pissed that the Kalpoe's stand to gain and he wants part of it, feels he deserves something, and in his sick mind he's probably right. To me, if the Kalpoe's were to be rewarded in their suit, that may actually create all sorts of interesting backlashes. The harshest words from Aruba judges came in their rejection of Paulus request for compensation. As if they told him, enough is enough and be grateful your still walking the streets. Even the corrupt have boundaries.

He is covering for his father, it's just logical to me. I cannot imagine why any father would go to this length for a son, who was a minor and committed this crime. Why create crimes when there weren't any to protect a sociopath unless you used this sociopath for your own purposes.

He really hasn't been protected, but the van der sloot home has been fiercely protected and shielded from scrutiny. Why?

Paulus is daury and Paulus is the man Joran refers to as the "buyer." And no way was natalee taken out to sea on the first night. I believe there was a 10 day window while the guards were in jail. I believe Dompig when he says she was moved multiple times. You don't strike agreeements with innocent people to become complicit in the matter of a few hours. If someone is going to make themselves an accessory, they surely will want to be shown the money first.

Paulus is way sicker than his son.

[Keepthefaith]

Hi Keepthefaith...I am not sure that they needed the internet connection to take their pics? Really clueless on this?

Just thought it was coincidental that their connection was down around the date of the Arubans diving. No outside contact.

Been looking for a accurate accounting of the weather both in and around Aruba??Have you been able to locate any accurate info Mum??I find it very interesting to say the least!

[MumInOhio]

Hi Keepthefaith...I am not sure that they needed the internet connection to take their pics? Really clueless on this?

Just thought it was coincidental that their connection was down around the date of the Arubans diving. No outside contact.

Been looking for a accurate accounting of the weather both in and around Aruba??Have you been able to locate any accurate info Mum??I find it very interesting to say the least!

No...I didn't think to check! Some posters have checked on previous weather conditions before, but can't remember just who it was or where the info came from.

Sort of like the radar going out those days in 2005?

[Keepthefaith]

Hi Keepthefaith...I am not sure that they needed the internet connection to take their pics? Really clueless on this?

Just thought it was coincidental that their connection was down around the date of the Arubans diving. No outside contact.

Been looking for a accurate accounting of the weather both in and around Aruba??Have you been able to locate any accurate info Mum??I find it very interesting to say the least!

No...I didn't think to check! Some posters have checked on previous weather conditions before, but can't remember just who it was or where the info came from.

Sort of like the radar going out those days in 2005?

Was looking for a liink through Google and came across a tourist couple who went up in a helicopter on Jan 7th, 2008.They were up around the lighthouse when the Ppilot had to come down because his instruments weren't working properly.Found it interesting they were taking pictures as well.Will continue to look for weather conditions on that day.On land,as well as at sea..

[texasmom]

Sorry if this was discussed, but came across it while looking for indication of dates for Tim being of the boat in the thread Blonde started…

Anyone have any info on the dates or time span, please.  TIA

From Kyle’s Log…I believe

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

Sun 06-Jan 1635
The seas abated sufficiently to maintain our progress through the night and into the early morning hours. The Persistence arrived dockside around 0430 hrs this morning.
Snipped

Wed 09-Jan 1816 hrs
All Internet connectivity was lost for two days due to rough seas and equipment failure. The old adage "No news is good news" only applies on land. Offshore, the 'Law of the Sea' rules and no news usually just means "lost contact". The seas were 6-8ft with the occasional 12+ft swell. The past two nights were spent conducting a bathymetry-only survey of the new grid. The new grid more than doubles the original search area. If completed, the total area thoroughly searched will be 80% the size of Aruba. Currently, the seas are calm relative to what we've been experiencing. The four digits posted on the echo-sounder is a reminder of the limits being put to the test.

Mum, the question was asked, but I do not believe exact dates were confirmed.  Someone posted a screen shot from the Dateline program of an email Dave had from the contact in Nicaragua dated January 12, 2008 (don't recall who posted).  I just finished watching clips on YouTube of that show and again saw that email but the only thing said during the program was that Dave asked Tim to check out the lead sometime in January. 

There was also no date mentioned in the show after December 30, 2007 where the thumbs down signal was given.  Hanson only stated that the Aruban crew dove following to retrieve from the cage...no specific date mentioned, to my knowledge.

2NJS...Thanks...All I could remember was January.

Was there a timestamp on the one with Tim peering, saying he thought it looked like a skull. TIA

The one of Tim and the comment was from the Dateline show, I grabbed this post of Kermit's months ago.  I think the comment was from the pics that the ROV captured on 12/29.

[Tylergal]

I recall reading somewhere as a child and cannot recall where but criminals will give aliases to themselves and others (of their characters) which are familiar and similar so they are easy to recall, i.e, Daury is Daddy  That makes it easy for Joran to recall who this character that he trusts and has been able to trust is but he is really not sure he trusts him but he is the only person in the universe that he can trust; he cannot trust his peers; he cannot trust his acquaintances; he can only trust Daury but that trust is wearing thin.

[MumInOhio]

Sorry if this was discussed, but came across it while looking for indication of dates for Tim being of the boat in the thread Blonde started…

Anyone have any info on the dates or time span, please.  TIA

From Kyle’s Log…I believe

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

Sun 06-Jan 1635
The seas abated sufficiently to maintain our progress through the night and into the early morning hours. The Persistence arrived dockside around 0430 hrs this morning.
Snipped

Wed 09-Jan 1816 hrs
All Internet connectivity was lost for two days due to rough seas and equipment failure. The old adage "No news is good news" only applies on land. Offshore, the 'Law of the Sea' rules and no news usually just means "lost contact". The seas were 6-8ft with the occasional 12+ft swell. The past two nights were spent conducting a bathymetry-only survey of the new grid. The new grid more than doubles the original search area. If completed, the total area thoroughly searched will be 80% the size of Aruba. Currently, the seas are calm relative to what we've been experiencing. The four digits posted on the echo-sounder is a reminder of the limits being put to the test.

Mum, the question was asked, but I do not believe exact dates were confirmed.  Someone posted a screen shot from the Dateline program of an email Dave had from the contact in Nicaragua dated January 12, 2008 (don't recall who posted).  I just finished watching clips on YouTube of that show and again saw that email but the only thing said during the program was that Dave asked Tim to check out the lead sometime in January. 

There was also no date mentioned in the show after December 30, 2007 where the thumbs down signal was given.  Hanson only stated that the Aruban crew dove following to retrieve from the cage...no specific date mentioned, to my knowledge.

2NJS...Thanks...All I could remember was January.

Was there a timestamp on the one with Tim peering, saying he thought it looked like a skull. TIA

The one of Tim and the comment was from the Dateline show, I grabbed this post of Kermit's months ago.  I think the comment was from the pics that the ROV captured on 12/29.

Thanks TM...I was looking for the dates that Dateline was on board. Making a time-line for Blonde's thread. Will put it in with a question mark?

[2NJSons_Mom]

Mum,

Here is the Dateline transcript...pages 4 & 5 have the Persistence and Nicaragua info.  I see texasmom has already given you the shots with the 12/29/07 timestamp.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

Fixed incorrect date.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Mum,

Here is the Dateline transcript...pages 4 & 5 have the Persistence and Nicaragua info.  I see texasmom has already given you the shots with the 12/29/07 timestamp.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

Here is the link to the portion of the Dateline program where Tim says it looks like a skull (12/25/07)  and also the 12/29/07 thumbs down dive.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302471

[Slogger]

In the first photo with bags:
the one with shoe looks like phone slightly in front of it.
1/07/08 at 15:36 . . . 2 bags on left, one in middle, one in right front.  The bag in the middle has sneaker on left side bag. The dark oval looks like where you stick foot into sneaker.

In front of sneaker is rectangle with some black and evenly spaced dark dots--looks like phone.

 Facing toward the camera, there is a small, dark triangle/rectangle . . . part of a larger rectangle.   If the "93.6 f" is at 12 o'clock, the rectangular thing is lying flat on the bottom of the cage (on a diagonal in the bag) in a line pointing from about 7 o’clock toward 1 o’clock.  The rectangular object, looks to have a black part toward us, gray on the upside with black buttons (2 rows) pointing toward 1 o’clock.

Does anyone else see this, or do I need to cut back on the coffee?

[Slogger]

Someone else said the rectangle looked like a brick; and that phones have 3 rows of buttons.

[johan555]

is this a fake yahoo Page ?

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-u8kQff45YrR3e2EFtBzh_wEK

[Anna]

is this a fake yahoo Page ?

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-u8kQff45YrR3e2EFtBzh_wEK

I have no way of knowing if Hydro Oduber actually posted all that but do remember the page from when it was first posted.  If it is fake, it has been there over two years.