Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 - 12/3/08

[MumInOhio]

Mum,

Here is the Dateline transcript...pages 4 & 5 have the Persistence and Nicaragua info.  I see texasmom has already given you the shots with the 12/29/07 timestamp.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

Here is the link to the portion of the Dateline program where Tim says it looks like a skull (12/25/07)  and also the 12/29/07 thumbs down dive.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302471

Thanks 2NJS…Looks like 12/30 from the Transcript?? ROV on 12/29…Mos and crew the next day?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.
 
And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.
Snipped

Dave Holloway: I did
.
And the Holloways weren't alone. The next day Aruban authorities, including chief prosecutor Hans Mos, came on board to see for themselves.
 
Tim Miller: We showed them what we had. I think they got real interested, too. We all thought we had something.
 
The Aruban authorities agreed the find looked promising. And finally, divers from the Persistence and the Aruban police set out to get an up-close look.
 
Tim Miller: Everything was going right. That morning there was actually a double rainbow when we got started.
 Snipped

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat)
Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.
 
Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap
.
They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.
 
The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap.
 
The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...
 
(On the boat)
 
No it's thumbs down.
 
Negative, not it.

Crushing disppointment.

[Edward]

How tall was PitBull ?
Who did he work for besides Chooseaname
Who owned Chooseaname.

thank you
:}
 

[San]

How tall was PitBull ?
Who did he work for besides Chooseaname
Who owned Chooseaname.

thank you
:}
 

I know Pitbull was a big guy.



http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2006/04/newest-info-on-murdered-bouncer.html

=============================================

I googled Choose a name and came up with this:

Next is the newly opened and intriguingly monikered Choose a Name Bar, where nightly specials ¾from Wednesday karaoke to Sunday after-beach parties ¾keep things hopping all week. The crowd is blossoming beneath the blaring music as I arrive, but owner Ton Rojer tells me it doesn't really get going until around 11. The cozy upstairs lounge is not quite as loud; I beat it up there so conversation becomes less a contact sport.

http://www.caribbeantravelmag.com/article.jsp?ID=6113

Choose a Name has since burnt down.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Not sure if it’s accurate, and it doesn’t really include marine conditions, but it offers weather history for Aruba.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/station/78982/2008/1/6/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Also found the following in my search for weather….


http://spectacle-boat.com/2008/01/

-snipped-
Aruba – among the cheesiest, low-rent places imaginable.  Utterly culture-free.  Reno with beaches.  A KFC on every corner.  Couldn’t wait to leave.  Casino highly non-accommodating (which didn’t help…).  Contemplating a visit?  Sit down until the feeling passes.

[Magnolia]

Not sure if it’s accurate, and it doesn’t really include marine conditions, but it offers weather history for Aruba.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/station/78982/2008/1/6/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Also found the following in my search for weather….


http://spectacle-boat.com/2008/01/

-snipped-
Aruba – among the cheesiest, low-rent places imaginable.  Utterly culture-free.  Reno with beaches.  A KFC on every corner.  Couldn’t wait to leave.  Casino highly non-accommodating (which didn’t help…).  Contemplating a visit?  Sit down until the feeling passes.

2NJ,
FWIW, I remember checking marine conditions nearly everyday while
the Persistence was in the area and Kyle did report that fairly accurately.
There were a few days when the seas were relatively calm, but generally
it was huge swells (10-20 ft) and rough weather.

[Edward]

How tall was PitBull ?
Who did he work for besides Chooseaname
Who owned Chooseaname.

thank you
:}
 

I know Pitbull was a big guy.



http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2006/04/newest-info-on-murdered-bouncer.html

=============================================

I googled Choose a name and came up with this:

Next is the newly opened and intriguingly monikered Choose a Name Bar, where nightly specials ¾from Wednesday karaoke to Sunday after-beach parties ¾keep things hopping all week. The crowd is blossoming beneath the blaring music as I arrive, but owner Ton Rojer tells me it doesn't really get going until around 11. The cozy upstairs lounge is not quite as loud; I beat it up there so conversation becomes less a contact sport.

http://www.caribbeantravelmag.com/article.jsp?ID=6113

Choose a Name has since burnt down.

Thank You

Aruba court.. Convicted and Sentenced, Ismael Heyliger, Kim Prins Heyliger
6 and 5 years for the murder ..
Also there friend Michael Levenstone was sentenced for 5 years..

They took PitBull apart while he was alive..
He was not kicking though, because they cut off his legs.. and tied his arms to a stick..
It was below sub human behavior .. mo.

Info from a article I saved Bon Dia Aruba December 6 2006

Heck they will be out in just a couple of years.. 
What an island.. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Not sure if it’s accurate, and it doesn’t really include marine conditions, but it offers weather history for Aruba.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/station/78982/2008/1/6/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Also found the following in my search for weather….


http://spectacle-boat.com/2008/01/

-snipped-
Aruba – among the cheesiest, low-rent places imaginable.  Utterly culture-free.  Reno with beaches.  A KFC on every corner.  Couldn’t wait to leave.  Casino highly non-accommodating (which didn’t help…).  Contemplating a visit?  Sit down until the feeling passes.

2NJ,
FWIW, I remember checking marine conditions nearly everyday while
the Persistence was in the area and Kyle did report that fairly accurately.
There were a few days when the seas were relatively calm, but generally
it was huge swells (10-20 ft) and rough weather.

Thank you, Magnolia.  I obviously did not and I believe someone posted earlier today questioning the rough weather and the dive.  It just was something I occupied some time with this afternoon. 

[bastibro]

How tall was PitBull ?
Who did he work for besides Chooseaname
Who owned Chooseaname.

thank you
:}
 

I know Pitbull was a big guy.



http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2006/04/newest-info-on-murdered-bouncer.html

=============================================

I googled Choose a name and came up with this:

Next is the newly opened and intriguingly monikered Choose a Name Bar, where nightly specials ¾from Wednesday karaoke to Sunday after-beach parties ¾keep things hopping all week. The crowd is blossoming beneath the blaring music as I arrive, but owner Ton Rojer tells me it doesn't really get going until around 11. The cozy upstairs lounge is not quite as loud; I beat it up there so conversation becomes less a contact sport.

http://www.caribbeantravelmag.com/article.jsp?ID=6113

Choose a Name has since burnt down.

Thank You

Aruba court.. Convicted and Sentenced, Ismael Heyliger, Kim Prins Heyliger
6 and 5 years for the murder ..
Also there friend Michael Levenstone was sentenced for 5 years..

They took PitBull apart while he was alive..
He was not kicking though, because they cut off his legs.. and tied his arms to a stick..
It was below sub human behavior .. mo.

Info from a article I saved Bon Dia Aruba December 6 2006

Heck they will be out in just a couple of years.. 


What an island.. 

Yes, disgusting!  Aruban law is based on Dutch law, and that is raped long time ago IMO

[Blonde]

Sorry if this was discussed, but came across it while looking for indication of dates for Tim being of the boat in the thread Blonde started…

Anyone have any info on the dates or time span, please.  TIA

From Kyle’s Log…I believe

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

Sun 06-Jan 1635
The seas abated sufficiently to maintain our progress through the night and into the early morning hours. The Persistence arrived dockside around 0430 hrs this morning.
Snipped

Wed 09-Jan 1816 hrs
All Internet connectivity was lost for two days due to rough seas and equipment failure. The old adage "No news is good news" only applies on land. Offshore, the 'Law of the Sea' rules and no news usually just means "lost contact". The seas were 6-8ft with the occasional 12+ft swell. The past two nights were spent conducting a bathymetry-only survey of the new grid. The new grid more than doubles the original search area. If completed, the total area thoroughly searched will be 80% the size of Aruba. Currently, the seas are calm relative to what we've been experiencing. The four digits posted on the echo-sounder is a reminder of the limits being put to the test.

Where the contents of the removed?Where the pictures of the zip-lock bags not taken on Jan 7th???Mum??

January  7th

[Magnolia]

Not sure if it’s accurate, and it doesn’t really include marine conditions, but it offers weather history for Aruba.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/station/78982/2008/1/6/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Also found the following in my search for weather….


http://spectacle-boat.com/2008/01/

-snipped-
Aruba – among the cheesiest, low-rent places imaginable.  Utterly culture-free.  Reno with beaches.  A KFC on every corner.  Couldn’t wait to leave.  Casino highly non-accommodating (which didn’t help…).  Contemplating a visit?  Sit down until the feeling passes.

2NJ,
FWIW, I remember checking marine conditions nearly everyday while
the Persistence was in the area and Kyle did report that fairly accurately.
There were a few days when the seas were relatively calm, but generally
it was huge swells (10-20 ft) and rough weather.

Thank you, Magnolia.  I obviously did not and I believe someone posted earlier today questioning the rough weather and the dive.  It just was something I occupied some time with this afternoon. 

If you look at the pictures of the Aruba Dive Team's boat, the sea doesn't
look that bad.  I always figured that the divers were used to the trade wind
conditions.

[Poochy]

How tall was PitBull ?
Who did he work for besides Chooseaname
Who owned Chooseaname.

thank you
:}
 

Edward,
 

FYI - Choose-A-Name burned down TWICE.

The first time, it burned to the ground and they didn't rebuild it on the same land.

They built it up back on a different property, where it stood in 2005.

Then a few yrs ago it went up in flames again. Not sure if the bar was rebuilt.

I had this info somewhere - will have to search for it. I found it interesting especially because the 3 were said to have stopped off at that bar just after leaving C&C that night.  "Light the fires" (snicker snicker)

(I also find it interesting that the C&C manager said Natalee left at 12:50am that night, while others say it was 1:10, 1:15 and 1:30am.  Anybody know the real time she left C&C?)

 

[Anna]

I don't believe Pitbull was still alive when eviscerated as one just doesn't survive one of those cocaine pellets rupturing.  You die from the drugs really fast.

[bastibro]

How tall was PitBull ?
Who did he work for besides Chooseaname
Who owned Chooseaname.

thank you
:}
 

Edward,
 

FYI - Choose-A-Name burned down TWICE.

The first time, it burned to the ground and they didn't rebuild it on the same land.

They built it up back on a different property, where it stood in 2005.

Then a few yrs ago it went up in flames again. Not sure if the bar was rebuilt.

I had this info somewhere - will have to search for it. I found it interesting especially because the 3 were said to have stopped off at that bar just after leaving C&C that night.  "Light the fires" (snicker snicker)

(I also find it interesting that the C&C manager said Natalee left at 12:50am that night, while others say it was 1:10, 1:15 and 1:30am.  Anybody know the real time she left C&C?)

 

They left with the bunch, must have been around 1:15

[texasmom]

11/28/2008 Solo di Pueblo Page 20

http://solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=2



sta. cruz/ willemstad – in one corant of curaçao, la prensa owing to leave the news of joran van der sloot cu owing to capta we atencion. the notorio joran van der sloot, for ministerio publico of aruba, still one sospechoso in the caso of desaparicion of natalee holloway, owing to happen the canal of television americano, fox news, one berdadero “fast ball”. van der sloot owing to sell the canal one tape on cual supuestamente the is confesa cu the damita not owing to die, but cu past owing to bend’é cu one person cu calling “elgar” for one suma of 10.000 dollar. the supuesto elgar will have to owing to place holloway on one boat y bay cune venezuela. all this joran van der sloot owing to tell in one supuesto conversacion cu his father paul. conversacion cu el’a graba y cu as owing to leave at cla now, el’a sell for one suma considerabel of coin cu the canal mericano fox news. the grabacion here was motibo for greta van susteren, presentador of the declaration of policy “on record” viaha bay tailandia, for yonder interview van der sloot. in declaracion for van susteren, van der sloot owing to confesa cu provided that berdad el’a “bende” natalee holloway for one suma of coin y cu supuestamente the is bibo still at venezuela. sinembargo, barely 24 hour after cu fox owing to act the “revelacion” new here, joran van der sloot owing to calling the canal for tell cu his dekla racion was nothing more cu producto of his fantasy. the history here is achieve one vuelta more dramatico still after cu monday night greta van susteren owing to present the grabacion of the supuesto conversacion among joran y his father paul. everybody cu conoce paul van der sloot cu owing to listen the grabacion owing to tell at once cu do not voz of the father of joran y at once owing to conclui cu is deal here of one producto more of the mind obviamente maligno of joran.e advocate mericano of joran van der sloot, david jacopina, tuesday night was invitado of van susteren in the declaration of policy “on record” y owing to trece good cla fast cu not can confia the grabacion here. jacopina owing to tell cu monday night el’a talk cu paul van der sloot, that owing to hur’é cu never y never el’a take away such conversacion cu his child y cu the grabacion ey is obviamente falsifica. much person is of opinion cu is deal here of another vuelta more of joran for earn coin for of the history without end of desaparicion of natalee holloway. everybody is of acuerdo cu fox news owing to cay in one tremendo snare poni for van der sloot. more still if the canal self is reconoce cu 1 of the two expertonan cu they owing to give for analiza the grabacion owing to tell cu not can autentica this. the credibilidad of the canal is come more still in discusion if take at cuenta cu they're deny rotundamente for let autoridadnan hudicial of merca, in the caso here fbi, haci one analisis forensico of the grabacion. van susteren owing to give of conoce yesterday in the declaration of policy “on record” cu they're prefer for father of joran send one test of his voz for they, for her canal self haci his investigacion. cu the ultimo declaracion here of joran van der sloot the desaparicion of the lady americano is achieve one life new for ciudadanonan americano. according la prensa at self instant the is become the of 5 “forma” con according joran van der sloot the lady will have to owing to lose his life or desaparece.


Joe Tacopina=David Jacopina 

[WhiskeyGirl]

Tylegal,

I feel sorry for Joran only in the sense that he probably is pissed that he is shouldering all the burden of others as well.

He is actually protecting this "house of cards" by himself, when there are so many others guilty in this case. I do think it's entirely possible and plausible that his father is more guilty than he is. I really believe Paulus, premeditated Paulus is the instigator in Natalee's abduction and her death.

It sure sounds like Joran is pissed that the Kalpoe's stand to gain and he wants part of it, feels he deserves something, and in his sick mind he's probably right. To me, if the Kalpoe's were to be rewarded in their suit, that may actually create all sorts of interesting backlashes. The harshest words from Aruba judges came in their rejection of Paulus request for compensation. As if they told him, enough is enough and be grateful your still walking the streets. Even the corrupt have boundaries.

He is covering for his father, it's just logical to me. I cannot imagine why any father would go to this length for a son, who was a minor and committed this crime. Why create crimes when there weren't any to protect a sociopath unless you used this sociopath for your own purposes.

He really hasn't been protected, but the van der sloot home has been fiercely protected and shielded from scrutiny. Why?

Paulus is daury and Paulus is the man Joran refers to as the "buyer." And no way was natalee taken out to sea on the first night. I believe there was a 10 day window while the guards were in jail. I believe Dompig when he says she was moved multiple times. You don't strike agreeements with innocent people to become complicit in the matter of a few hours. If someone is going to make themselves an accessory, they surely will want to be shown the money first.

Paulus is way sicker than his son.

I think there are a lot of possibilities.  Natalee could have been in the VDS home and sick from drugs and alcohol.  She may have been in a coma.  She may have been moved around, evidence planted by some (pond, beach), for any number of reasons.  Reasons that some may have forseen and reasons like plain old "panic" and "fear".

Selling Natalee or just paying someone to take her off island and dump her anywhere may have been part of a plan.  Perhaps at some point, she was lucid and tried to leave.  Someone may have hit her with a bat and killed her. 

Her remains may have been an island 'hot potato'.  People just dumped them and hoped no one would find them.  They may have been moved a number of times.  Each time they moved, they were less intact and more difficult to transport.

Is it possible that her remains were moved into that trap some time in 2007?  It seems odd after all these years that there was that mound of stuff near the skull.  I always thought that just a few pieces of bone would remain after 1-2 years.  Scavengers would have carried off everything else.

Could the remains have deteriorated elsewhere for 1-2 years?  Moved to that trap in 2007, awaiting discovery?

I also believe there is a grain of truth in all these stories.  Could he have named those involved and just changed the story line a bit? 

Is it possible that JVDS only has first hand knowledge of the time line from C&C to early Monday/Tuesday morning?  Perhaps after that point, he is unaware of what happened to Natalee alive/dead/body?  No body/No case/No corpse/No justice/No Friends?

Does he have knowledge of her condition, death, and those who started the chain of events?

When does his knowledge become second hand?  Rumor?  Speculation?

[texasmom]

11/28/2008 Solo di Pueblo Page 2

DH Sings!



Wonder if it's one of these: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EXRPxC-5bE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQQ6SfPZggw

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/televisiontvthemelyrics-50s60s70s/marytylermooreshow.htm

 

[SS]

Tylergal - I am laughing because we have something in common.  Hala, mon farsi ballad n'istam.   

[2NJSons_Mom]

    Texasmom, I doubt it will matter which version FD sings....after all, it's karaoke....

[Helen Back]

11/28/2008 Solo di Pueblo Page 2

DH Sings!



Wonder if it's one of these: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EXRPxC-5bE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQQ6SfPZggw

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/televisiontvthemelyrics-50s60s70s/marytylermooreshow.htm

 

Hi monkeys.

OMG Texasmom!  I can't believe you found that! 

[SS]

We can get an idea if the seas were rough on January 7th by looking at one of the photographs Kermit posted.  It's a picture of the black ALE dive boat pulled up next to the Persistence.  Kermit's caption under the picture was "where were the Americans".  If I recall, the seas didn't look unusually rough.  Remember also, when I discovered the discrepany in Kyle's posts where he said he was onshore but there was an entry in the diary describing the events of the day on the Persistence.  Kyle's response was that he had written the diary while onshore.  So, when he was describing rough seas in his diary, he might actually have been strolling on the beach.