Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 - 12/3/08

[2NJSons_Mom]

Glenda Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:08 am @ RU

Obviously, I don't know what Mos told JQK. I do know that JQK did his best to get a copy of that Casino Tape and other tapes from other casinos where the man seen talking to Natalee might be playing at the same tables as Joran.

I was told in 2005 by one of the leads on the case that the Man was 100% not PvdS and they identified him as a guest of the resort and not a chaperone. 

Ok. It must be a fact..
 

 

[Tamikosmom]

TM...do your recall when and where that was...any chance the HI on June 10th? TIA

Sorry mum, I'm not sure.  But I think if you're not right, you're very close.

The first time this image appeared ... five days following Natalee's disappearance ... it was associated with the following article.  The photo no longer appears on the page.

This photo was my mainstay when the trolls who posted on the forum at CourtTV ... the trolls who later broke away and formed RU ... implied that Beth was not acting like a grieving mother.

Janet

_________


Three Probed in Missing Teen Case
Saturday, June 04, 2005

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158598,00.html

Image #77
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/caribbean/sfl-missinginaruba.gallery,0,4839897.photogallery

Thanks VMS

That photo gallery brings back so many memories.

Janet

[Dayhiker]

JQK : Drives a wedge between Aruba and the sloots

JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S PARENTS: You know, the most logical explanation of how Natalee could disappear, absolutely vanish into air within a half hour of being dropped off at the beach with Joran is consistent with what he said. And all the other evidence points towards it, too, that she was led down to the fisherman's hut, she was led to the shore, you know, alive, well, and led onto a small sports utility vehicle, and you know, very willingly got on board and before she knew what was happening and Joran didn't get on board, you know, the boat took off and she was subdued eventually...And the other thing is -- let me just add, Greta, you know, Aruba is a tourist island. Their commerce -- they can survive if the story is -- you know, is one aberrant act by a young man who got caught up and panicked on an accidental death of a young girl there. That they can live with. But you know, for several young men conspiring and plotting and putting someone into human trafficking, adults covering it up, law enforcement covering it up, government officials looking away, that's something Aruba can't survive.

Short of a devastating hurricane, can one imagine any more conclusive tourism industry death blow than this?

I don't know whether JQK, or any of the informed players, really believes this human trafficking story.  But JQK uses this as a basis to slam Aruba -- big time.

And this is a point where the sloots interests, and the interests of Aruba, diverge significantly.  And Kelly is driving a wedge between the two and separating the competing interests and setting them up in opposition.

The sloots likely springboarded into the trafficking story, as a way to distance themsleves from direct implication in a murder, etc. -- but by taking the path they have chosen (trafficking), they have put Aruba in an even more dangerous place.  Who would consider Aruba as a "family-friendly" tourist destination when young girls are kidnapped off beaches and sold to men in boats -- never to return?

Kelly and the Holloway family want Mos to get off his ass and get this investigation moving -- they are doing so by setting up the sloots and Aruba for a fight.  And the best part is that the sloots handed this to everyone on a silver platter, by "volunteering" the trafficking story, and providing strong corroboration via the goon's recent adventures in the Thai sex slave scene.

.

Great post Hammer. Where is Hans Mos? Where is his statement? Did he not lie to the media when he said what Greta had was old news? Hans needs to come out and address the topic of human trafficking in Aruba. Hans needs to address the new news Greta has uncovered and let the world know if he plans on investigating it.

Hans also lied to the media when he said he stayed in touch with the family and their lawyer. According to Beth and JQK he hasn't. Hans is a liar.

It looks more and more like the cover-up comes from Holland. They sent him to Aruba. They have done nothing to correct his inaction in the case. Holland's silence is an endorsement of Hans Mos.

Where is Hans Mos? Is he meeting with his Dutch judge buddies to concoct a story on why Joran's new statements to Greta don't mean anything? Does he still defend the Kalpoes? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Dayhiker]

Glenda Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:08 am @ RU

Obviously, I don't know what Mos told JQK. I do know that JQK did his best to get a copy of that Casino Tape and other tapes from other casinos where the man seen talking to Natalee might be playing at the same tables as Joran.

I was told in 2005 by one of the leads on the case that the Man was 100% not PvdS and they identified him as a guest of the resort and not a chaperone. 

Ok. It must be a fact..
 

She stands by the boy, and his drug abuse, his disposing and murder of an innocent girl, and his sex trafficking. She is the face of Aruba in one ugly package.

[johan555]

Glenda Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:08 am @ RU

Obviously, I don't know what Mos told JQK. I do know that JQK did his best to get a copy of that Casino Tape and other tapes from other casinos where the man seen talking to Natalee might be playing at the same tables as Joran.

I was told in 2005 by one of the leads on the case that the Man was 100% not PvdS and they identified him as a guest of the resort and not a chaperone. 

Ok. It must be a fact..
 

what said joran on FOX about Renfro ?

[Puzzler]

IMO - I would trust an eye witness that has passed multiple polygraphs, including one taken in Miami, over even on word spoken by Joran!!

[2NJSons_Mom]

Glenda Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:08 am @ RU

Obviously, I don't know what Mos told JQK. I do know that JQK did his best to get a copy of that Casino Tape and other tapes from other casinos where the man seen talking to Natalee might be playing at the same tables as Joran.

I was told in 2005 by one of the leads on the case that the Man was 100% not PvdS and they identified him as a guest of the resort and not a chaperone. 

Ok. It must be a fact..
 

what said joran on FOX about Renfro ?

Not sure that he did, Johan....or did he?

[Poochy]

That's the pic. Thanks for posting it.

Mum - Deepak's PVs have always bothered me.  He's tried to explain why he separated from Joran and Satish while inside C&C, and when C&C closes.

For example, he states he took a piss in the C&C bathrooms, then didn't see Joran and Satish, so he went outside to his car. (Do we know exactly who walked with Natalee outside of C&C?) (But he also heard C&C was closing - can you hear that from the back of the building or was he not there?)

In another PV Deepak states before C&C closed he went outside to his car but couldn't get inside because SATISH HAD THE KEYS. So why did Satish have the keys?

If Satish had the keys, why in yet another PV did he state that he sat inside his car w/the door opened listening to music waiting for Satish and Joran to come out? 

My guess is that Deepak disappeared for a bit to do something and then met back up with them later that night, at 2:26-2;34 when Joran gave him a call.

S.Croes said he too was at C&C, had offered MB kids rides back to the H.I., and then he interjected himself as a key witness to the 'beach story' while the other kids were fleeing Aruba. 

At 2:26-2:34 am: Joran calls Deepak from his cell phone (DZNH)  Could Joran have been calling Deepak to make sure everything was lined up - that Natalee was 'ready'?

During the call, Joran talks to Deepak in Papi and Dutch so that Natalee will not understand.  (Didn't he say something like this to Greta the other night?)
 
This part of his phone call gets fuzzy for me --> During the call Joran tells Deepak he is walking home and is in the vicinity of the McDonalds on Palm Beach. Joran is breathing heavily. He says he is walking home barefoot, because he took his shoes off to go in the water with Natalee and could not find them again. He also says he left Natalee "passed out" on the beach (D 6/11, D 6/16)[/i]  The new witness corroborates this story about breathing heavy, walking home barefoot (one shoe missing)...

Then we have where all 3 state that the car was STOPPED:
-- Deepak said they drove around and he STOPPED THE CAR - got out and took a leak...
--Satish says he told his brother to STOP THE CAR so he could toss out his yard cup.
--Joran told Deepak to STOP THE CAR so he could get out with Natalee.
--Deepak/Satish say the fishermen witnesses couldn't have seen them in their car (did they see another car?) because they didnt' get out on the beach - Joran and Natalee did.

Based on these 3 PV statements they stopped the car SOMEWHERE at SOME TIME that night. But who was driving? Who was in the car? What car was it? Was there also a white car/jeep following?

Maybe we can go from the very beginning - (yet again) from being inside C&C, who she left with, all the 'mystery' friends each PV says they spoke with/bought a drink for while inside C&C. Whenever Joran talks on camera more 1/2 truths fall out of his mouth....

 

[Tamikosmom]

Beth knows the truth.  In all probability ... after images of Paulus appeared in the media ... the Mountain Brook students confirmed that Paulus was at the black jack table with them on the evening of May 29, 2005.

It should be taken into consideration that Beth Twitty's words in the following interview with Rita were spoken six months prior to the revelation of the casino video recording that appears to show Paulus conversing with Natalee.

Janet

+++++++++++


Katherine (Madison) Whatley
FBI Statement
July 12, 2005

After swimming at the hotel on Sunday, WHATLEY and other classmates, including HOLLOWAY, ate dinner at a restaurant next to the hotel. After dinner they went to the casino at the hotel. A few classmates were gambling at a card table along with an "older man" and YURON VAN DER SLOOT. (Whatley 302)


Beth Twitty
Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 19, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... I don‘t think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
December 14, 2006

DANA: When you look at this case, a question keeps coming up. I am looking at the picture on my PC. It is the alleged picture of a person in the casino with Natalee that looks a lot like Paul. Has there been any update on this issue?

JOSSY: There have not been any change of opinion. People, including people in the casino say that is Paul.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2006/12/14/the-dana-pretzer-show-december-14th-2006-jossy-mansur/

[texasmom]

Some of this article is actually in English!   

[BTgirl]

I know there are a lot of people who are and have been suspicious of Jossy, but I've always had the impression that he was doing the best he could for Natalee at any given time.

Those of you who know Easywriter know that for a long time he and Jossy corresponded regularly as friends. Easy used to forward to me emails that Jossy had sent to him that Jossy didn't want shared with the general public. Jossy was not making public statements, simply talking with someone he considered a friend. There was nothing in the emails I saw that would lead me to believe that Jossy was being anything but honest and a friend to Natalee's family. As always, MOO.

[texasmom]

11/26/2008 Awe Mainta Pg 11
www.awemainta.com



Pap Trans:

in entevista cu foxnews joran owing to declara cu past owing to sell natalee holloway monday night greta van susteren in the canal of television foxnews owing to happen one interview cu joran van der sloot, realiza posiblemente for of asia, caminda cu past owing to declara cu past owing to sell natalee holloway at one man. according joran, past owing to come across one man in casino at feburary cu owing to bise cu the is intersa in one child muher. he will owing to tell joran cu past will dune coin if can bring one child muher pe. among the previous to encuentro y the desaparicion of natalee will have to had several contacto among they two. he not owing to tell joran pakico the had have to of one child muher blond. according joran van der sloot, he is among 30 cu 40 year, is talk dutch, papiamento y english y his name is elgar, but the do not assure cu this is his name berdadero. in the interview joran owing to count ; on the night of desaparicion of holloway. “mi owing to bay cune for core one rato. we owing to bay beach caminda cu we owing to descend for of car y owing to cuminsa kiss another. after he owing to come, past owing to dunami the coin y owing to bay cu natalee in one boat on lama. natalee not taabtin fright, but owing to ask about if dicon my do not bay. the was burachi”. joran is tell cu owing to bay venezuela cu natalee y past owing to achieve one overall of 10 thousand dollar pe. of the plac ey past owing to part 2 thousand among two amigo, deepak y satish kalpoe, cu will owing to yude in this. joran will owing to busca contacto cu foxnews because the wanted let all cos behind y follow cu his life. the is wait for cu they can achieve he cu owing to cumpra natalee y door even natalee self, because according joran, past will can is at life still. for apoya his storia, van der sloot owing to give fox news grabacionnan digital cu the had cu his father, caminda the father is bisasu child cu contrabando of person is one crimen earnest. after of the interview joran owing to go back take contacto cu foxnews for tell cu past owing to lie, cu past owing to inventa all this because the not owing to sell natalee.

11/26/2008 Awe Mainta Pg 20

www.awemainta.com





Pap Trans:

joran van der sloot is halusiná again.... deklarando with ela sell holloway for 10.000 dòler come across....buèlta new in affair of disappearance at aruba.....

(pa: godfried adem)
amsterdam/oranjestad/new york- the affair of disappearance do natalee holloway three year ago now here again can find one buèlta new. while om at aruba is tell of not can make still nothing with all the deklarashonnan with owing to being give much of part of joran van der sloot self and others (sigur two witness nobo), joran is sigi briya on plano international and is demostrá with the not have fear of nothing. the form how the is act his self have to till even is being consider as one burla of om at aruba and famianan dje desaparesido hóben lady american. monday evening the was once more in news the trip here in declaration of policy dje presentadó greta van susteren that live much a`na finish at usa and have one declaration of policy investigativo at fox tv. einan during one interview joran owing to divulga something new with till still the not owing to make menshon of dje. esta with the will owing to sell natalee for 10 thousand dollar, probably pe’saki go work as prostituta and bondwoman generative at south amerika. ela count with one fellow at aruba will owing to aserké and owing to pidié for look for one woman blond pe. the will have to owing to take away natalee the night fateful of 30 of half ne beach where others will have to owing to abduct this, poné on one boat and hibé venezuela. the is tell of owing to find one suma of 10 thousand dollar for his intervenshon and ela part two thousand dòler with two another friend of dje with will yudé with the operation here. this is something new of joran already with anteriormente ela tell with natalee owing to die in his arm and with one another friend owing to yud’é (un such dauri) owing to throw the body in sea ganchu. if the ultimo declaration here is bèrdat is stay one question big and extremely kuestionabel because is known with at several okashon joran is despistá everybody with vershonnan extremely inverosimil of thing owing to happen. that owing to resultá so because after dje interview here joran owing to calling fox tv for tell with is lie the is lie one travel more. opservadornan is find with joran not can sigi so if and now have to look for one form for as detené or hink’é in one klinika and einan trato and bring at klaridat pe talk the bèrdat for once and for all. es more, every trip with the leave out with his deklarashonnan skizofreniko the is sigi spite name of aruba with debi ne family van der sloot here owing to come lose much tourist. if was joe of juan bimba and calitu chapé ja finish they will owing to detene and interoge severamente and owing to arrive instant for minister of hustsia rudy croes self go place preshon on om p’esaki make something because so here if not can sigi more with joran. joran van der sloot will is abide assure of one sindroma much dangerous. achievement is want have to know more of thing owing to happen with natalee holloway and have to poné talk. greta van susteren owing to interview joran van der sloot for of tailandia where the live till still. is two week happen with peter r. de vries show how joran wanted owing to sell some girl tailandes with some dutch undercover and wanted owing to demostra with the is meti in the business here. outoridatnan of tailandia owing to stay of investiga the grabashonnan here but still not hear nothing of they. once more ministerio publico owing to let know cu not have nothing new y assure nothing concreto in the relatonan here.

[Tamikosmom]

I know there are a lot of people who are and have been suspicious of Jossy, but I've always had the impression that he was doing the best he could for Natalee at any given time.

Those of you who know Easywriter know that for a long time he and Jossy corresponded regularly as friends. Easy used to forward to me emails that Jossy had sent to him that Jossy didn't want shared with the general public. Jossy was not making public statements, simply talking with someone he considered a friend. There was nothing in the emails I saw that would lead me to believe that Jossy was being anything but honest and a friend to Natalee's family. As always, MOO.

I agree BT and ... so does Natalee Holloway's family.

Janet

A REMINDER

BETH TWITTY
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, you know, I‘ll be forever grateful for Jossy Mansur, who is there. And he has been so instrumental. And he‘s just a hero to all of us. And, you know, he‘s my only hope on the island. And we‘ll be forever grateful to him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9354188/


DAVE HOLLOWAY
Dana Pretzer Show
September 8, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Jossy has been very helpful to try to find the truth, the fact he lives in Aruba and publishes a newspaper, they're attacking him because he's looking for-- fighting for-- the truth. That’s what a good journalist does--He's going to go after the people, regardless, and try to find the truth


STEVE HOLLOWAY
Scared Monkey - FP Comments
April 6, 2007
 
Comment #20 ... I think he is a good man looking for the truth. He will not let them push him around. This is his home and is probably sick of the corruption that happens every day on such a large scale on such a small island.

Comment by Steve Holloway | April 6, 2007, 1:02 pm


JUG TWITTY
Scared Monkey - FPComments
December 5, 2006

Comment #6 ... THANK YOU JOSSY I DON’T KNOW HOW YOU DO IT BUT YOU HAVE BEEN THERE FOR US FROM THE BEGENNING AND THE PEOPLE OF ARUBA SHOULD BE PROUD OF YOU.
Comment by JUG TWITTY | December 5, 2006, 10:57 am

[klaasend]

The Dana Pretzer Show on Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen LIVE Tonight at 9PM
Eastern - Tonight Dana Devotes An Entire Program To The Natalee Holloway
Investigation

Tonight, Dana discusses the latest Joran Van der Sloot news with his
distinguished guests:

    * Clint Van Zandt, former FBI agent, discusses the recent Joran Van der
Sloot interviews.
    * Art Wood, former secret service agent and private investigator also
discusses the Van der Sloot interviews.
    * Stacy Dittrich, author and police officer discusses Joran's recent
media appearances.
    * Other guests will also be apparing discussing the case.

LISTEN LIVE TONIGHT AT 9PM EASTERN

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com

[martini]

Joran accepted an advance payment of $1,275 for his services from the Thai girls. Authorities said van der Sloot has not been seen since he was spotted leaving a party Friday night in Bangkok. Lawyer J.P. Plasman said prosecutors could press charges against van der Sloot for accepting the money. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/10/Holloway_suspect_taped_with_sex_workers/UPI-52511226358499/

An after thought~ maybe the chip/ recorded tape with Joran and his father was about the Thai incident and then the tape was altered to add "the girl" seeming it was about Natalee.
What is the timeline? Did Greta receive the recorded conversation before the Thai incident? Thanks!
 

[Tamikosmom]

Joran accepted an advance payment of $1,275 for his services from the Thai girls. Authorities said van der Sloot has not been seen since he was spotted leaving a party Friday night in Bangkok. Lawyer J.P. Plasman said prosecutors could press charges against van der Sloot for accepting the money. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/10/Holloway_suspect_taped_with_sex_workers/UPI-52511226358499/

An after thought~ maybe the chip/ recorded tape with Joran and his father was about the Thai incident and then the tape was altered to add "the girl" seeming it was about Natalee.
What is the timeline? Did Greta receive the recorded conversation before the Thai incident? Thanks!

 

[EURobert]

Just in Hart van Nederland: they have compared old material of PvdSloot with this new recording. Their conclusion: FAKE! It’s a totally different accent (for example no so called soft G - very typicly -which is spoken in regions below the Rhine in the NL’s.).

OM on Aruba won’t comment either.

[texasmom]

The Dana Pretzer Show on Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen LIVE Tonight at 9PM
Eastern - Tonight Dana Devotes An Entire Program To The Natalee Holloway
Investigation

Tonight, Dana discusses the latest Joran Van der Sloot news with his
distinguished guests:

    * Clint Van Zandt, former FBI agent, discusses the recent Joran Van der
Sloot interviews.
    * Art Wood, former secret service agent and private investigator also
discusses the Van der Sloot interviews.
    * Stacy Dittrich, author and police officer discusses Joran's recent
media appearances.
    * Other guests will also be appearing discussing the case.

LISTEN LIVE TONIGHT AT 9PM EASTERN

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com

Thanks Klaas!   Great line up!  

[MumInOhio]

Joran accepted an advance payment of $1,275 for his services from the Thai girls. Authorities said van der Sloot has not been seen since he was spotted leaving a party Friday night in Bangkok. Lawyer J.P. Plasman said prosecutors could press charges against van der Sloot for accepting the money. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/10/Holloway_suspect_taped_with_sex_workers/UPI-52511226358499/

An after thought~ maybe the chip/ recorded tape with Joran and his father was about the Thai incident and then the tape was altered to add "the girl" seeming it was about Natalee.
What is the timeline? Did Greta receive the recorded conversation before the Thai incident? Thanks!
 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: More than three years after Natalee Holloway vanished on the island of Aruba, Joran Van Der Sloot has come forward to tell us that he sold Natalee Holloway for a bag full of cash to a mystery man on the beach. Then he contacted me to say it was all a lie.

John Q. Kelly, the lawyer for Natalee's parents, joins us live. John, just in talking to Jim Hammer, just as an aside, it occurred to me that assuming this conversation with his father was legitimate -- and we heard what John -- what Jim said about it -- this occurred in January of '08 that they're talking about trafficking. We did our interview about six months later in June, and he's talking about human trafficking. So there's a sense that that somehow -- you know, at least it's not a new story in June, if it's a lie.

Anyway, what's your thought on all this?

 

[MumInOhio]

Oops...Should have highlighted June...Still asking for the dates that the DeVries show covered...

Anyone?  TIA