Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 - 12/3/08

[yapperz1]

Hiya Monkeys. IMO the pics made from the ROV of the trap & its contents were not sold to anyone. I honestly think if they had been sold something would have surfaced by now. I also do not believe what was found in that trap was Natalee or had anything to do with her case. Not saying it wasn't remains but I don't believe they were Natalee's. I also believe Kyle told all he could without jeopardizing the investigation. None of us were actually there & do not know all the info they discovered while on Aruba or in its waters. JMOO

[Keepthefaith]

Hiya Monkeys. IMO the pics made from the ROV of the trap & its contents were not sold to anyone. I honestly think if they had been sold something would have surfaced by now. I also do not believe what was found in that trap was Natalee or had anything to do with her case. Not saying it wasn't remains but I don't believe they were Natalee's. I also believe Kyle told all he could without jeopardizing the investigation. None of us were actually there & do not know all the info they discovered while on Aruba or in its waters. JMOO

Please read Kermit's post's.If you already have and still have the same opinion i'd be more then happy to hear it..

[Tamikosmom]

Hiya Monkeys. IMO the pics made from the ROV of the trap & its contents were not sold to anyone. I honestly think if they had been sold something would have surfaced by now. I also do not believe what was found in that trap was Natalee or had anything to do with her case. Not saying it wasn't remains but I don't believe they were Natalee's. I also believe Kyle told all he could without jeopardizing the investigation. None of us were actually there & do not know all the info they discovered while on Aruba or in its waters. JMOO

Hi Yap

Think about the words Beth's brother without what Kermit claimed was told to him by Kyle in emails.

The indication ... at the very least ... would be that Kyle was very naive regarding his perspective that the Arubans involved with the search effort of the Persistence had justice for Natalee Holloway as an objective.

Janet
________

private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.
 

[yapperz1]

I had read all of Kermit's & others posts b4 I made my post. I just feel the potential for people/MSM to make money off the Natalee Holloway case would have insured the pics surfacing had they been sold.
I also feel that we are never told about all the info or evidence pertaining to a case. IMO it isn't going to help solve what happened to Natalee if everything is layed out for Aruba to decide what they need to coverup next. As I said this is MOO.

[johan555]

Gielen & CO  the people who made the sh*t docu

Renee Gielen &  Dolph van Stapele & Jeroen Leinders

So a new name and who is this Jeroen ? 

Is het "the" brain behind all the misinfo 

strategic communication consultancy

http://www.stradius.com/home/

[San]

Hiya Monkeys. IMO the pics made from the ROV of the trap & its contents were not sold to anyone. I honestly think if they had been sold something would have surfaced by now. I also do not believe what was found in that trap was Natalee or had anything to do with her case. Not saying it wasn't remains but I don't believe they were Natalee's. I also believe Kyle told all he could without jeopardizing the investigation. None of us were actually there & do not know all the info they discovered while on Aruba or in its waters. JMOO

Hi Yap

Think about the words Beth's brother without what Kermit claimed was told to him by Kyle in emails.

The indication ... at the very least ... would be that Kyle was very naive regarding his perspective that the Arubans involved with the search effort of the Persistence had justice for Natalee Holloway as an objective.

Janet
________

private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.
 

If they went there with the opinion that Aruba was on their side then I have to agree they were duped.

I had always said that if I were one of the people on the Persistence I would make sure that I wouldn't hand everything over to the ALE.

After all these years of following this case how could anyone even be fooled by Aruba in thinking they were on our side and wanted to help.  I don't want to hear nor do I care that they were nice guys.  We all have seen where nice has gotten us over the past 3 1/2 years.  Time to get nasty.

[yapperz1]

San it is time to play the game the way Aruba has played it for 3 1/2 years. IMO

[Frank]

I really don't believe that could have been Natalee's remains. Maybe someone else they didn't want found or have to answer for but why are we quoting Dompig or anyone else as to what happened?

She died at the VDS house and with Paulus and the Police involved, and the time, this just seems to lazy.

I mean if you have 10 days to get rid of a body, it is really gone. I don't believe the ocean story that she was dropped in the ocean. Too rushed.

Who's credible enough to know that? It's all misdirection and it's the stories we haven't been told yet that will reveal where she was taken.

[San]

San it is time to play the game the way Aruba has played it for 3 1/2 years. IMO

I agree.

[wreck]

I really don't believe that could have been Natalee's remains. Maybe someone else they didn't want found or have to answer for but why are we quoting Dompig or anyone else as to what happened?

She died at the VDS house and with Paulus and the Police involved, and the time, this just seems to lazy.

I mean if you have 10 days to get rid of a body, it is really gone. I don't believe the ocean story that she was dropped in the ocean. Too rushed.

Who's credible enough to know that? It's all misdirection and it's the stories we haven't been told yet that will reveal where she was taken.

I think it WAS Natalee and she was put there several days later after being moved around from several places on the island. - JMO

[Pita]

Hiya Monkeys. IMO the pics made from the ROV of the trap & its contents were not sold to anyone. I honestly think if they had been sold something would have surfaced by now. I also do not believe what was found in that trap was Natalee or had anything to do with her case. Not saying it wasn't remains but I don't believe they were Natalee's. I also believe Kyle told all he could without jeopardizing the investigation. None of us were actually there & do not know all the info they discovered while on Aruba or in its waters. JMOO

Yapperz, I agree.

[San]

I really don't believe that could have been Natalee's remains. Maybe someone else they didn't want found or have to answer for but why are we quoting Dompig or anyone else as to what happened?

She died at the VDS house and with Paulus and the Police involved, and the time, this just seems to lazy.

I mean if you have 10 days to get rid of a body, it is really gone. I don't believe the ocean story that she was dropped in the ocean. Too rushed.

Who's credible enough to know that? It's all misdirection and it's the stories we haven't been told yet that will reveal where she was taken.

I agree.  I have always thought Natalee was on land.

Joran makes sure to say she was dumped in the ocean.  San says she is on land.
Joran says she will never be found.  San says she will be found.
Joran says they went to his house but never got out.  San says they got out.
Dompig believes Natalee is in the water.  San says on land.
Dompig says Natalee was moved multiple times.  San says maybe once.

I always say take what they say and reverse it.

[Frank]

why there? If you have the time and means to go there, why not another 50 miles?

Why there? in a trap? Why?

Isn't the trap a little easier to find? A trap that size, why not just dump her in the ocean, the trap to me is a ruse.

This was done by adults with experience and this doesn't seem like the work of professionals which I believe, took Natalee. I know it's hard to think of the Aruba Dirty Police as professionals but they seem very good at losing evidence.

The whole thing doesn't feel right. If you assume for a minute that we've been distracted from the truth, then she wasn't put in a trap, then what?

[San]

why there? If you have the time and means to go there, why not another 50 miles?

Why there? in a trap? Why?

Isn't the trap a little easier to find? A trap that size, why not just dump her in the ocean, the trap to me is a ruse.

This was done by adults with experience and this doesn't seem like the work of professionals which I believe, took Natalee. I know it's hard to think of the Aruba Dirty Police as professionals but they seem very good at losing evidence.

The whole thing doesn't feel right. If you assume for a minute that we've been distracted from the truth, then she wasn't put in a trap, then what?

Let's not forget that fake search at the Sloots.  I never believed for one second that it was an honest search.  Like Paulus didn't know.  Oh and how about the spectacle they put on at the Kalpoe home dragging them out of the house.  PLEASE.

[yapperz1]

Frank,  Just can't see them feeling a trap would be a safe place to put Natalee. I would think with all the divers in that area, they would be afraid someone may literally find the trap with any remains & or evidence.

[Tamikosmom]

Hiya Monkeys. IMO the pics made from the ROV of the trap & its contents were not sold to anyone. I honestly think if they had been sold something would have surfaced by now. I also do not believe what was found in that trap was Natalee or had anything to do with her case. Not saying it wasn't remains but I don't believe they were Natalee's. I also believe Kyle told all he could without jeopardizing the investigation. None of us were actually there & do not know all the info they discovered while on Aruba or in its waters. JMOO

Hi Yap

Think about the words Beth's brother without what Kermit claimed was told to him by Kyle in emails.

The indication ... at the very least ... would be that Kyle was very naive regarding his perspective that the Arubans involved with the search effort of the Persistence had justice for Natalee Holloway as an objective.

Janet
________

private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.
 

If they went there with the opinion that Aruba was on their side then I have to agree they were duped.

I had always said that if I were one of the people on the Persistence I would make sure that I wouldn't hand everything over to the ALE.

After all these years of following this case how could anyone even be fooled by Aruba in thinking they were on our side and wanted to help.  I don't want to hear nor do I care that they were nice guys.  We all have seen where nice has gotten us over the past 3 1/2 years.  Time to get nasty.

San ... considering many have not followed the Natalee Holloway case ... I could give the organizers/crew of the Persistence the benefit of the doubt that they were unaware of the perception of a coverup by the Aruban "powers that be" in the Aruban investigation.

I could give the organizers/crew of the Persistence the benefit of the doubt they sincerely did not realize that those Arubans who they were cooperating with in the search effort had a conflict of interest.

I could give the organizers/crew of the Persistence the benefit of the doubt that in the beginning their motives were sincere in regards to justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closure for her family who had been through a "H---" on Earth since May 30, 2005 by an Aruban coverup.

However ... Tim Miller knew better.  I cannot comprehend how Tim could support this huge undertaking on the word of Gerald Dompig ... the head of the Aruban investigation whose agenda was in direct conflict with justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closure for her family.

I knew from Tim Miller's words ... prior to the search ... with Jamie Colby on July 15, 2007 and ... one of Kyle's first posts to the SM Natalee Holloway forum ... prior to the search ... on January 26, 2008 ... the efforts of the Persistence was for naught but ... I kept praying I was wrong ... there was something I was not comprehending.

I just do not get it.

Janet

_____


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

MILLER: ... Gerold Dompig actually told us when Dave and I was over there; that he felt that Natalee was out in the water, that the night the fishermen's hut was broken into, a knife was stolen, a rope was stolen and a large crab trap was stolen.

Gerold Dompig's words were "Natalee was put in that crab trap, they put rocks in it and they took her out 3 to 5 miles and she's 800 to 1,000 feet deep" and we always thought about the water anyhow.

When Dave and I were over there we actually found the boat we truly feel took Natalee out to sea ...


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

VAN SUSTEREN: Alright you said DNA, this was found in a crab trap below the surface in the water right?

MILLER:  It was in the water and Greta we was looking for a crab trap because we got reports that the night Natalee disappeared one of the fishermen's huts was broken into and a crab trap was stolen and I actually talked to a man there at the fishermen's huts, he verified about the hut being broken into and the crab trap being taken so it was really one of the things we was looking for.  In fact Chief Dompig told me 2-1/2 years ago in October when we was at the landfill that we needed to be out in the water, and he felt as though Natalee was put in a crab trap or some type of container ...


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."

[SS]

Where is everyone?  I've been gone for several days and I've had a chance to think about all that transpired lately.  I somehow am still shaking my head with so many unanswered questions and in less than thirty days Aruba will try to close this case.

Who was in the trap?

What happened to Parts 3,4, and 5 of the Diario articles from last Septmeber?

What about the cemetery where Caps was so certain that Natalee had been put?

What about Monserat pond and the witness at 4:05?  How does this fit into the bigger picture?

Caps had information that Natalee was dismembered?  Where did he get this information?

What about the Matty Apts. and our comparisons showing that the Honda was switched with a different Honda?  If there was a large amount of blood in the car indicating a homicide, it is unlikely that Natalee was sold for $10,000.  This doesn't mean that Paulass and Urine were not involved in the trafficking of other women.

Where is Urine right now?  Is he on the run and out of Thailand?

Was Urine's newest confession another diversion ploy, and if so, what is the diversion for - the pond witness?

Has anyone heard from Caps?  One of his last statements before Greta's interview was the Urine was now blackmailing his father.  Caps, where are you?

*******************
From Magnolia:

First of all.......can anyone believe that the crew members of the Persistence
let that fish trap, with what looked like a scull in it, sit there for a week waiting for the
Aruban divers to show up?  I wouldn't have. And I would have probably taken
a sample of what was there.
If Silvetti sold his footage.......he probably had some proof.
Kyle didn't have any proof and therefore did not make his sale. He just had pictures
of a fish trap with what looked like somebody's remains.

Great thoughts Mags!

I agree with Kermit about the fabric in the cage.  The object is too large to be a hat in comparison to the skull, possible pelvic bone, and the shoe.

[Keepthefaith]

Where is everyone?  I've been gone for several days and I've had a chance to think about all that transpired lately.  I somehow am still shaking my head with so many unanswered questions and in less than thirty days Aruba will try to close this case.

Who was in the trap?

What happened to Parts 3,4, and 5 of the Diario articles from last Septmeber?

What about the cemetery where Caps was so certain that Natalee had been put?

What about Monserat pond and the witness at 4:05?  How does this fit into the bigger picture?

Caps had information that Natalee was dismembered?  Where did he get this information?

What about the Matty Apts. and our comparisons showing that the Honda was switched with a different Honda?  If there was a large amount of blood in the car indicating a homicide, it is unlikely that Natalee was sold for $10,000.  This doesn't mean that Paulass and Urine were not involved in the trafficking of other women.

Where is Urine right now?  Is he on the run and out of Thailand?

Was Urine's newest confession another diversion ploy, and if so, what is the diversion for - the pond witness?

Has anyone heard from Caps?  One of his last statements before Greta's interview was the Urine was now blackmailing his father.  Caps, where are you?

*******************
From Magnolia:

First of all.......can anyone believe that the crew members of the Persistence
let that fish trap, with what looked like a scull in it, sit there for a week waiting for the
Aruban divers to show up?  I wouldn't have. And I would have probably taken
a sample of what was there.
If Silvetti sold his footage.......he probably had some proof.
Kyle didn't have any proof and therefore did not make his sale. He just had pictures
of a fish trap with what looked like somebody's remains.

Great thoughts Mags!

I agree with Kermit about the fabric in the cage.  The object is too large to be a hat in comparison to the skull, possible pelvic bone, and the shoe.

There is a previous post that Urine is in Manila,Philippines???The post is a few pages back.Don't know if it's true or not.

[SS]

why there? If you have the time and means to go there, why not another 50 miles?

Why there? in a trap? Why?

Isn't the trap a little easier to find? A trap that size, why not just dump her in the ocean, the trap to me is a ruse.

This was done by adults with experience and this doesn't seem like the work of professionals which I believe, took Natalee. I know it's hard to think of the Aruba Dirty Police as professionals but they seem very good at losing evidence.

The whole thing doesn't feel right. If you assume for a minute that we've been distracted from the truth, then she wasn't put in a trap, then what?

Let's not forget that fake search at the Sloots.  I never believed for one second that it was an honest search.  Like Paulus didn't know.  Oh and how about the spectacle they put on at the Kalpoe home dragging them out of the house.  PLEASE.

Good thoughts, San.  At this point, I am still leaning toward the possibility that Natalee actually died at the Matty Apts., but was probably brought to the Sloot home where she was possibly cleaned of all DNA and other "chit" by Paulass, Voking, and others.  They didn't search the main house because ALE knew there would be traces of blood in the drains and tile grout.


Could someone repost that photograph from the rocks which looks like there might be a leg and foot wrapped in blue plastic?

[Keepthefaith]

I received this email a short time ago …..here is the email (below) minus the emailer’s name and email address (I removed it to protect him):


Subject: Joran van der Sloot is hiding in Manila

I saw him playing poker at the Hyatt hotel in Manila last night. He goes by the name Murphy and said that he was stuck in the Philippines due to the riots at the Thailand airport. However, I checked Google and it looks like he is now wanted in Thailand and cannot be found. In the casino, I also saw him sit down with an old man. It appeared that the old man was showing Joran pictures, perhaps of an apartment or house in the Philippines for Joran.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

Brought it forward SS.Don't know if you've already read it???