Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 - 12/3/08

[Magnolia]

Here are the recently filed docs in the Dr. Phil vs Kalpoe case.  I'm not going to do screen captures unless you guys really need them.

Pages 59 -67 of the KaySkeeters doc is pretty interresting 

     

[always 1]

But why are they so special that our government would not demand answers and keep demanding them until we have the right one?  If Natalee were a lost soldier, we would have an answer!!!!!

Lost soldiers are sent by the government on a mission and the government is theirs and they are the property of the government sotaspeak when they are on a mission ordered by said government.  To the best of my knowledge, I never heard that Natalee was sent on a mission by our government.  Aruba is a sovereign nation and we have to respect that.  We cannot invade a nation for one person who chose to go there and who did not return.  Otherwise, we would be invading every nation on earth.  As much as it hurts, Natalee is not the only person who leaves this country, never to return or be heard from again but she has received more publicity than most because her parents were so diligent to keep her in the forefront and her story as did Greta.  Many have done much to help; the ball is in Aruba's court and we can choose to go there on vacation or go elsewhere and that is what you do, you hit them in the pocketbook.

That was a good post, and of course I know that, but you know, I just want them to do more!!!

[Puzzler]

"Sweeps" happen four times a year.  I do wonder why Greta sat on this for so long.  Don't think it was for the ratings at all but more to do with her own personal schedule for covering the elections which likely got higher ratings until they were concluded.

She also has all those recordings of Paulus voice so why does she need another one?  Perhaps she means one over the phone?

I don't have strong opinions on any of these recent fights going on as in my opinion, none of it really changes what happened to Natalee.

Be that as it may, the pipeline Oduber was blathering about was for natural gas to be piped directly from Venezuela and had nothing to do with the crude oil refinery.  I always thought it was funny when Arubans claimed to provide most of the oil for the U.S. from that one little refinery, totally missing the hundreds we have just off shore.

Anyway, I do like to see Joran babbling and especially got a kick out of his naming Paulus as being complicit in human trafficking plots.  I also enjoyed hearing Steve Cohen backpedaling or trying to do so.  Guess I still like any and all coverage by anybody except Renee Geilen.

Any way you look at it, the tourism for Aruba is pretty much toast with the economy as it is.  Add to that the negative publicity and once again I promote our own wonderful Gulf Coast beaches.  Alabama's has REAL white sand and is not manmade and fake.

And with all of this plus two or four, depending on who says, new witnesses, I have yet to see even the slightest movement on the part of the Aruban OM to do one thing about any of this.  How we spur them into motion concerns me much more than all the intrigue and sniping at each other.  Not that it isn't entertaining and all that. . . .

Hope everyone is having a very nice Thanksgiving for even in these hard financial times, we have much for which to be truly thankful not the least of which is being born into this wonderful country of ours.

Anna

Could it be that Greta waited to air her show at this point because December is the month that Mos is supposed to make the final decision on whether or not to close the file on Joran.  We know Mos won't take Joran to trial. Greta's show at this point (besides ratings) could be one last big effort to put Joran in the international spotlight before Mos' decision.  Also, it puts a bright light on Aruba...again.

Isn't it interesting that Joran was talking to Greta in June about "selling" Natalee and 5-6 months later he's in hiding in Thailand for the same thing (only not Natalee)?

[wreck]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

[Magnolia]

If this has already been posted, I apologize.
It is Peter R. DeVries on the RLT Boulevard Show last night.



Transcription / Translation of Peter R. de Vries' appearance on RTL Boulevard last night

Translation:

Humberto Tan: "Is father Van der Sloot on the tapes or not?"

Peter R. de Vries: "Why yes, a lot of people think the father of Joran had something to do with the disappearance of Natalee, indeed, that he is the driving, pushing figure behind it all. So the question is: do we hear "his master's voice"?

...


Humberto: "Yesterday we talked about Joran van der Sloot's confession on the American network Fox News. Today there is yet another remarkable story: Joran himself has come forward with a conversation between him and his father, Paul van der Sloot, the subject being... the "sale" of Natalee.

Peter: "Yes, Fox News came with a chip - let's say some sort of tape - allegedly of a telephone conversation between Joran and his father. And from that conversation it would appear that father Van der Sloot knew what was going on, knew all about it, and that he also told his son to keep his mouth shut, not to confess, not ...

Humberto: Yes.

Peter: To stay strong ...

Albert Verlinde: But this is about the human trafficking business, correct?

Peter: No, no, it's about the disappearance of Natalee.

Humberto: You seem skeptical... "Allegedly," you say ...

Peter: The question is whether it's Joran Van der Sloot's father on the tape. Let's listen to the tape:


... Humberto: Peter, you won an Emmy, but this performance is not exactly Oscar worthy, is it? It's simply bad acting, man!

Peter: This is very bad acting ... this is a fake phone call, made by Joran himself, I'm willing to bet.

Humberto: Both roles?

Peter: Both roles - I think he plays the role of his father - I know the voice of his father, and it's nothing like it. Another thing that strikes me as odd is that there is no cross talk going on - and this is supposed to be an "emotional" conversation. There are long pauses in the conversation as well. I sounded to me like it was a scripted "conversation."

Albert: That means that Joran is "sacrificing" his own father ... Which is what it boils down to.

Peter: Look, it was his intention, I told about this yesterday and I think it was his intention that this would "explode," so he could be all "See, I'm all lies, I'm unstable, I'm insane, I'm a professional fantasist. That was the image he wanted to portray, making the confessions in the car to Patrick van der Eem look like just another made up story. And the general public would be like "This boy is not accountable [ontoerekeningsvatbaar]"

Humberto: But you've met his dad, you've spoken with his father.

Peter: Yes, we've got a clip when we hear his father speak. And then you hear the difference quite clearly:

[audio clip]
...


Peter: Yes, but look, I think Fox News knew perfectly well that this was not right. Because they already had this conversation in their possession in April and waited until November to broadcast. Well, if you really think it's real, then of course you would have made it public immediately, because that would be hard evidence for the involvement of Father Van der Sloot, but this is just a very bad...

Humberto: Doesn't this guy just have a personality disorder, Peter?

Peter: Or is he simply cunning ... I mean, he would like you to say that.



Humberto: But if that is what you want to achieve, why do it in such a dumb way?

Peter: That is exactly his intention. He wants you to say: "He is crazy, he is not accountable [ontoerekeningsvatbaar]."

[Anna]

Puzzler,
I think you are correct.  We are going to see all stops pulled out in an effort to bring Joran to prosecution or at least prevent Mos from closing the case against him at the end of December.  I did not in his latest presser Mos was saying within a few months instead of at the end of December.  Some how, some way, it does always get drug out just a little longer with the introduction of new evidence and witnesses.  For that, I am grateful to those who enable this to happen but can't for the life of me see where there is not enough circumstantial evidence to convict him.  His various confessions should carry the weight of his being guilty of WHATEVER caused Natalee to disappear.

But with no jury system and the judges always friends of Paulus, it doesn't seem that they will see it this way no matter what is presented.

I did hear Beth say "Midnight Express" referring to that movie about an awful Turkish prison and agree with her that I would be just fine should he end up in one in Thailand.  They are on the verge of a military coup right now so his life can't be too good as it is.  And he doesn't dare go back to Holland and maybe not even Aruba at this point.

The web of his life draws ever tighter.

[Anna]

Edit July to December.

Too much turkey or something.

[San]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

I agree.

What if Joran found out about the DeVries tape which was taped in January.  Thailand changed the laws recently for Human Trafficking.  In June he does the Greta interview and he hands her supposedly three phone calls he made to Paulus about what he did.  Will Aruba try and extradite him for the trafficking of Natalee.  We know they won't prosecute him.  Was this a way to get him out of the charges in Thailand.

What ever this is whether related or not this backfired big time and makes Aruba look bad.  No matter who or where the strings are being pulled it goes back to Aruba.

Now ask me what I just said 

[Magnolia]

I would like to know if Mos is really about to return to Holland
permanently.  If so, he doesn't care what Joran does, he is about
to drop it in somebody else's lap.
If he is staying, he may be forced to buck up and do something.

[Blue Moon]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

I agree.

What if Joran found out about the DeVries tape which was taped in January.  Thailand changed the laws recently for Human Trafficking.  In June he does the Greta interview and he hands her supposedly three phone calls he made to Paulus about what he did.  Will Aruba try and extradite him for the trafficking of Natalee.  We know they won't prosecute him.  Was this a way to get him out of the charges in Thailand.

What ever this is whether related or not this backfired big time and makes Aruba look bad.  No matter who or where the strings are being pulled it goes back to Aruba.

Now ask me what I just said 

I understood what you just said.  I think Joran and his father believes that right now Joran is safer in Aruba that he would be in Thailand. 

[wreck]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

I agree.

What if Joran found out about the DeVries tape which was taped in January.  Thailand changed the laws recently for Human Trafficking.  In June he does the Greta interview and he hands her supposedly three phone calls he made to Paulus about what he did.  Will Aruba try and extradite him for the trafficking of Natalee.  We know they won't prosecute him.  Was this a way to get him out of the charges in Thailand.

What ever this is whether related or not this backfired big time and makes Aruba look bad.  No matter who or where the strings are being pulled it goes back to Aruba.

Now ask me what I just said 

I understood you! 
I'm confused though -- I thought the Devries taping in JANUARY was the "Patrick" ones. The Thailand "sting" was this past summer.

[San]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

I agree.

What if Joran found out about the DeVries tape which was taped in January.  Thailand changed the laws recently for Human Trafficking.  In June he does the Greta interview and he hands her supposedly three phone calls he made to Paulus about what he did.  Will Aruba try and extradite him for the trafficking of Natalee.  We know they won't prosecute him.  Was this a way to get him out of the charges in Thailand.

What ever this is whether related or not this backfired big time and makes Aruba look bad.  No matter who or where the strings are being pulled it goes back to Aruba.

Now ask me what I just said 

I understood what you just said.  I think Joran and his father believes that right now Joran is safer in Aruba that he would be in Thailand. 

Right. 

[San]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

I agree.

What if Joran found out about the DeVries tape which was taped in January.  Thailand changed the laws recently for Human Trafficking.  In June he does the Greta interview and he hands her supposedly three phone calls he made to Paulus about what he did.  Will Aruba try and extradite him for the trafficking of Natalee.  We know they won't prosecute him.  Was this a way to get him out of the charges in Thailand.

What ever this is whether related or not this backfired big time and makes Aruba look bad.  No matter who or where the strings are being pulled it goes back to Aruba.

Now ask me what I just said 

I understood you! 
I'm confused though -- I thought the Devries taping in JANUARY was the "Patrick" ones. The Thailand "sting" was this past summer.

I'm trying to find the date wreck.  Hopefully someone will know the answer.

Even if I have the date wrong as long as the date was before Greta's interview with him.

[wreck]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

I agree.

What if Joran found out about the DeVries tape which was taped in January.  Thailand changed the laws recently for Human Trafficking.  In June he does the Greta interview and he hands her supposedly three phone calls he made to Paulus about what he did.  Will Aruba try and extradite him for the trafficking of Natalee.  We know they won't prosecute him.  Was this a way to get him out of the charges in Thailand.

What ever this is whether related or not this backfired big time and makes Aruba look bad.  No matter who or where the strings are being pulled it goes back to Aruba.

Now ask me what I just said 

I understood you! 
I'm confused though -- I thought the Devries taping in JANUARY was the "Patrick" ones. The Thailand "sting" was this past summer.

I'm trying to find the date wreck.  Hopefully someone will know the answer.

Even if I have the date wrong as long as the date was before Greta's interview with him.

See, I don't think it was -- I think they were CLOSE in time with each other, though. Close enough for "trafficking" to be "on his mind" for both! No coincidence!

[vms]

<snipped>

A poker-friend of Joran approached De Vries in August.  “Joran asked this Arjan, a security guard, to do business with the Thais women in the Netherlands for him.  That went too far for Arjan.  After several telephone calls and msn-contacts, in which Joran invited him to come see his ‘merchandise’, Arjan decided to fly to Thailand, and our hidden camera went along.”

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_49056.php

[San]

<snipped>

A poker-friend of Joran approached De Vries in August.  “Joran asked this Arjan, a security guard, to do business with the Thais women in the Netherlands for him.  That went too far for Arjan.  After several telephone calls and msn-contacts, in which Joran invited him to come see his ‘merchandise’, Arjan decided to fly to Thailand, and our hidden camera went along.”

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_49056.php

Thank you VMS.

Scratch what I said.  Greta's story was first.

[San]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

I agree.

What if Joran found out about the DeVries tape which was taped in January.  Thailand changed the laws recently for Human Trafficking.  In June he does the Greta interview and he hands her supposedly three phone calls he made to Paulus about what he did.  Will Aruba try and extradite him for the trafficking of Natalee.  We know they won't prosecute him.  Was this a way to get him out of the charges in Thailand.

What ever this is whether related or not this backfired big time and makes Aruba look bad.  No matter who or where the strings are being pulled it goes back to Aruba.

Now ask me what I just said 

I understood you! 
I'm confused though -- I thought the Devries taping in JANUARY was the "Patrick" ones. The Thailand "sting" was this past summer.

I'm trying to find the date wreck.  Hopefully someone will know the answer.

Even if I have the date wrong as long as the date was before Greta's interview with him.

See, I don't think it was -- I think they were CLOSE in time with each other, though. Close enough for "trafficking" to be "on his mind" for both! No coincidence!

Sorry for the confusion Wreck.

[wreck]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

I agree.

What if Joran found out about the DeVries tape which was taped in January.  Thailand changed the laws recently for Human Trafficking.  In June he does the Greta interview and he hands her supposedly three phone calls he made to Paulus about what he did.  Will Aruba try and extradite him for the trafficking of Natalee.  We know they won't prosecute him.  Was this a way to get him out of the charges in Thailand.

What ever this is whether related or not this backfired big time and makes Aruba look bad.  No matter who or where the strings are being pulled it goes back to Aruba.

Now ask me what I just said 

I understood you! 
I'm confused though -- I thought the Devries taping in JANUARY was the "Patrick" ones. The Thailand "sting" was this past summer.

I'm trying to find the date wreck.  Hopefully someone will know the answer.

Even if I have the date wrong as long as the date was before Greta's interview with him.

See, I don't think it was -- I think they were CLOSE in time with each other, though. Close enough for "trafficking" to be "on his mind" for both! No coincidence!

Sorry for the confusion Wreck.

That's okay -- but, I think that the "trafficking" stories are interconnected! IF Joran was actually getting into "trafficking" -- it was on his mind during the Greta interview in June.

[texasmom]

I think Joran is "confessing" to human trafficking because it carries a less punishment than "murder".

I agree.

What if Joran found out about the DeVries tape which was taped in January.  Thailand changed the laws recently for Human Trafficking.  In June he does the Greta interview and he hands her supposedly three phone calls he made to Paulus about what he did.  Will Aruba try and extradite him for the trafficking of Natalee.  We know they won't prosecute him.  Was this a way to get him out of the charges in Thailand.

What ever this is whether related or not this backfired big time and makes Aruba look bad.  No matter who or where the strings are being pulled it goes back to Aruba.

Now ask me what I just said 

I understood you! 
I'm confused though -- I thought the Devries taping in JANUARY was the "Patrick" ones. The Thailand "sting" was this past summer.

I'm trying to find the date wreck.  Hopefully someone will know the answer.

Even if I have the date wrong as long as the date was before Greta's interview with him.

See, I don't think it was -- I think they were CLOSE in time with each other, though. Close enough for "trafficking" to be "on his mind" for both! No coincidence!

Sorry for the confusion Wreck.

That's okay -- but, I think that the "trafficking" stories are interconnected! IF Joran was actually getting into "trafficking" -- it was on his mind during the Greta interview in June.

Didn't they say in the Joran 2 presentation that he mentioned something about it in the conversations with Patrick in the Land Rover?

[San]

If this has already been posted, I apologize.
It is Peter R. DeVries on the RLT Boulevard Show last night.

Transcription / Translation of Peter R. de Vries' appearance on RTL Boulevard last night

Translation:

Humberto Tan: "Is father Van der Sloot on the tapes or not?"

Peter R. de Vries: "Why yes, a lot of people think the father of Joran had something to do with the disappearance of Natalee, indeed, that he is the driving, pushing figure behind it all. So the question is: do we hear "his master's voice"?

...

Humberto: "Yesterday we talked about Joran van der Sloot's confession on the American network Fox News. Today there is yet another remarkable story: Joran himself has come forward with a conversation between him and his father, Paul van der Sloot, the subject being... the "sale" of Natalee.

Peter: "Yes, Fox News came with a chip - let's say some sort of tape - allegedly of a telephone conversation between Joran and his father. And from that conversation it would appear that father Van der Sloot knew what was going on, knew all about it, and that he also told his son to keep his mouth shut, not to confess, not ...

Humberto: Yes.

Peter: To stay strong ...

Albert Verlinde: But this is about the human trafficking business, correct?

Peter: No, no, it's about the disappearance of Natalee.

Humberto: You seem skeptical... "Allegedly," you say ...

Peter: The question is whether it's Joran Van der Sloot's father on the tape. Let's listen to the tape:

... Humberto: Peter, you won an Emmy, but this performance is not exactly Oscar worthy, is it? It's simply bad acting, man!

Peter: This is very bad acting ... this is a fake phone call, made by Joran himself, I'm willing to bet.

Humberto: Both roles?

Peter: Both roles - I think he plays the role of his father - I know the voice of his father, and it's nothing like it. Another thing that strikes me as odd is that there is no cross talk going on - and this is supposed to be an "emotional" conversation. There are long pauses in the conversation as well. I sounded to me like it was a scripted "conversation."

Albert: That means that Joran is "sacrificing" his own father ... Which is what it boils down to.

Peter: Look, it was his intention, I told about this yesterday and I think it was his intention that this would "explode," so he could be all "See, I'm all lies, I'm unstable, I'm insane, I'm a professional fantasist. That was the image he wanted to portray, making the confessions in the car to Patrick van der Eem look like just another made up story. And the general public would be like "This boy is not accountable [ontoerekeningsvatbaar]"

Humberto: But you've met his dad, you've spoken with his father.

Peter: Yes, we've got a clip when we hear his father speak. And then you hear the difference quite clearly:

[audio clip]
...

Peter: Yes, but look, I think Fox News knew perfectly well that this was not right. Because they already had this conversation in their possession in April and waited until November to broadcast. Well, if you really think it's real, then of course you would have made it public immediately, because that would be hard evidence for the involvement of Father Van der Sloot, but this is just a very bad...

Humberto: Doesn't this guy just have a personality disorder, Peter?

Peter: Or is he simply cunning ... I mean, he would like you to say that.

Humberto: But if that is what you want to achieve, why do it in such a dumb way?

Peter: That is exactly his intention. He wants you to say: "He is crazy, he is not accountable [ontoerekeningsvatbaar]."

Thank you Magnolia I didn't see this.

I agree with De Vries that he wants people to think he is crazy.