Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 - 12/3/08

[Nut44x4]

Wow! You guys found that picture quickly. To me it's a picture that sums up the case more than any other.

Indeed...the image is burned into my brain forever. 

[Blonde]

Will Holloway Suspect and Dad Be Arrested After 'On the Record' Interview?

Tuesday, December 02, 2008


The attorney for Natalee Holloway's family says Joran van der Sloot and his father should be arrested after Joran's most recent interview.

The attorney for Natalee Holloway's family says Joran van der Sloot and his father should be arrested after Joran's most recent interview.






This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," December 1, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Joran van der Sloot told us on tape that he sold Natalee Holloway on a beach in Aruba for about $10,000. Well, Joran now says he was lying to us. Well, was he, or did he get cold feet having told us? One person wants action and wants it now, the Holloway family lawyer, John Q. Kelly.

In a letter to the Aruban prosecutor given to us by the family of Natalee Holloway, Kelly says, in part, "A newly released videotape of Joran van der Sloot making statements against penal interests (admitting to kidnapping, human trafficking, conspiracy and other crimes) to Greta Van Susteren is readily available ... and independently corroborated by the undisputed fact that he was the last person with Natalee when she vanished from the beach by the fisherman's huts. That, coupled with the fact that he initially fabricated demonstrably false accounts as to what happened to Natalee ... and was accused by the Kalpoes of engaging in criminal conduct in Natalee's disappearance ... in a June 29, 2005, surreptitiously recorded audiotape, all provide a more than sufficient legal basis for the immediate issuance of an arrest warrant for Joran van der Sloot." Kelly says there is enough evidence to arrest Paulus van der Sloot and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.
Related
Column Archive
Will Holloway Suspect and Dad Be Arrested After 'On the Record' Interview?
Fallout From Joran van der Sloot's 'On the Record' Interview
Joran van der Sloot Goes 'On the Record' with New Natalee Holloway Story
President-elect Obama's Administration Shaping Up: A Closer Look
Letterman's Not-So-Arousing Joke About Gov. Palin: Is It Sexist?



Now, will the Aruban prosecutor agree? Let's ask your legal panel. Joining us, Jim Hammer, former assistant DA of San Francisco, and criminal defense attorneys Ted Williams and Bernie Grimm.

Jim, you also went down there and confronted Paulus for us with the tapes, or at least made available some of the information. What do you think -- knowing the standard in Aruba, which is less than here in the United States, what do you think about the John Q. Kelly letter that the family gave us?

JIM HAMMER, FORMER ASSISTANT SAN FRANCISCO DA: Well, I think even under their loose standard, you could lock up Joran, but I think there's nothing to hold him with in that. I don't think we can put any faith in anything he says. I think the most damning thing, though, is said by Paulus, his father, the one I confronted down there. At the end of that entire tape, he says, Listen, keep your mouth shut, essentially, Keep it secret, don't cooperate with the authorities. I think that's a clear case of conspiracy to obstruct justice, to keep the truth from the authorities. For a lawyer to do that, Greta, is damning, and he ought to be arrested.

VAN SUSTEREN: Bernie, the most peculiar aspect of this -- I mean, we set out to prove or disprove what Joran told us. We don't know if that -- when he told us -- he told us -- he made us a statement about sale, then eight hours later says that's a lie. We don't know if he got cold feet and suddenly wished he hadn't said it, or if, indeed, it was a lie.

Joran was arrested on June 9, '05. On June 29, '05, the letter that John Q. -- or the tape that John Q. Kelly refers to in this letter is the three are in the back of a police truck and don't know that they're being recorded, and they talk about her as though she were alive.

BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, you know, you mentioned that before we started the show. And to me, the statements that are most damning -- and I think Jim Hammer would agree with me -- are statements that people naturally make when there is no motive to lie and there is...

HAMMER: Exactly.

Watch Greta's interview

GRIMM: ... They don't know they're being recorded and it's just said in a natural sort of element. That to me is compelling. Now, consider the fact that's not going to get him locked up, and this last statement that he made to you, it's -- I thought that it was a tremendous effort there, but I simply don't believe him because he's (INAUDIBLE) I mean, he could say Ted did it tomorrow, so...

VAN SUSTEREN: But I don't -- I don't -- but the thing is, it's not a question of whether you believe him or not believe him because that's not the issue. The issue is whether a prosecutor should go out and either attempt to prove or disprove what he has said. And one of the things that we supplied was a chip that Joran says is a conversation with his father, and which you talk about yourself is a conversation with his father, assuming it to be authentic -- and I have -- you know, I wish the prosecutor would either authenticate it or disprove it -- he didn't know that he was going to be taped. And they actually talk about trafficking and actually talk about it being a bad thing. And that's a perfect example.

TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But Greta, there is a dichotomy between re-arresting somebody and corroborating evidence. I believe that everything that's in your interview needs to be corroborated. I think that the Aruban authorities need to follow up on the leads. But should there be a re-arrest right now? I do not believe that they would be able to hold Joran at this time and I don't believe in a re-arrest.

VAN SUSTEREN: I will tell you that here in the United States, they probably would not have enough. But they have a much lesser standard in Aruba when we were down there. And the one thing that needs to be done is that chip. If that chip that Joran van der Sloot gave us of his father, then that's a whole different story if that is, indeed, an authentic one.

WILLIAMS: Well, not only that, what about the Western Union calls? What about the cell phones? All of those things could be corroborated by the authorities down there if they will investigate it.

VAN SUSTEREN: I'm just saying that what they -- under the law in Aruba, to arrest someone, since the standard is ever so slight -- frankly, I don't agree with the standard being ever so slight. But Jim, if it turns out that that -- that that conversation was an authentic -- was a real one between Joran and his father, at a time when he wouldn't have known it was taped, and it is his father...

HAMMER: Boy...

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Then that's whole -- then there's problems for Paulus.

HAMMER: Then...

VAN SUSTEREN: If, if.

HAMMER: Then this -- if that's true and it's authenticated, Greta, this is the craziest case we've ever talked about. I mean, and the thing that still troubles me is, give me another scenario by which his father would have uttered the words "human trafficking." I mean, it is such a distinctive thing to come out of his father's mouth. But the last thing, Greta, rather than do an arrest right now, they ought to do the spade work, the hard work of corroboration. If those wire transfers could be proven, Greta, together with his story, then we've got a real, real dynamite piece of evidence here.

VAN SUSTEREN: And of course, but the thing is that you've got to have a willingness to either prove or disprove. And if you're not even going to bother to do either, you're never going to find out.

GRIMM: Yes, I know what your point is, which is, you know, let the cards fall where they may. He gets found guilty, not guilty, but at least do the legwork. And I think what Jim's saying -- you know, people think -- and a lot of our people think cases are made by the CSI stuff. It's not. It's out knocking on doors, doing the legwork, serving subpoenas, getting cell phone records, Western Union records, all this stuff...

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: If that chip is the real deal, that changes everything.

GRIMM: Wow.

VAN SUSTEREN: Everything completely. But you got to at least -- if, if it's the real deal. But that's -- Joran is telling us that it is. I don't know. Anyway, panel, stand by.

Up next: Two friends of the Holloway family give you important information about Natalee's disappearance. They spoke to Joran's former headmaster on Aruba. What might this headmaster know?

Then: Our interview with Joran van der Sloot is creating big waves tonight in Aruba. The Aruban minister of justice is paying attention, talking about the interview. He doesn't sound happy. Now, cross your fingers. This might be good news, but maybe not for the prosecutor. And your legal panel will return.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,460108,00.html

[sharon]

Still waiting on the other 2 witnesses Hotshot.. .Will these 2 other witnesses come forward,as well as when if you can tell us?????

Are you doubting me and Caps?  You'll have to wait and see. 

Hotshot,

I don't want to miss anything.  Do I have time to shower, paint the outside of my house or read War and Peace?

 

ALL of the above.  And a few more. 

Still waiting........
.


 

[2NJSons_Mom]

I was looking for the police car transcripts. On page 10 of this forum is the listing for them, started by Klaas. But when I click on it, nothing's there. Here's the link:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=254.0

Can someone tell me if they have the same trouble, please? TIA!

Police Car Transcript thread can be found in Important Case Documents.   The thread you found in Natalee Case Discussion appears to have been a duplicate that was not used.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0

[wreck]

If Joran simply "sold" her off that night, there would be NO need for a 10 day coverup period w/ joran sleeping at the school. There would be NO need to paint rocks, there would be NO need for Joran and the boys to be out Monday night, there would be NO need for stories such as "she fell and hit her head." There would be NO need  to refuse a search of the entire Van Der Sloot home..................................................

[MumInOhio]

Still waiting on the other 2 witnesses Hotshot.. .Will these 2 other witnesses come forward,as well as when if you can tell us?????

Are you doubting me and Caps?  You'll have to wait and see. 

Since you left the door open…I do. I have serious doubts about any poster who doesn’t answer questions about the identity of the photograph he carried around in his pocket for 2 years. 

I have been agonizing over some of the things I have read in the archives these last few days. Instead of coming on and gloating, IMO, both you and Caps need to realize that there are actual people behind these monitors, and most people have feelings.

While some may go along with you that the ends justifies the means, I feel sure others will not.  Obviously I am one of the latter.

Sent an email the other day that said I felt we were in a theater, watching a saga unfold, and we, the regular posters were the supporting cast...So why are we waiting for the Final Act to play out? On with the Show!!!

Oh right...we are waiting on the 8 ball!

[MumInOhio]

Blonde...Thanks for the transcript...Fell asleep!


Ree 

[sharon]

(snipped)

Oh right...we are waiting on the 8 ball!

Well you're waaaaayyy ahead of me -- I'm still waiting for Larry Garrison's 'Deep Throat'.

 

I nominate you for 'Post of the Day month year decade'


AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES!!!
Justice for Natalee Holloway

[Blonde]

Mitchell Ennis and Charlie Debardeleben
Holloway family friends

Arrived on the island on Wednesday morning following Natalee's disappearance.  Went to meet with Beth and Jug and talked with Van der Straten the first day.  Next day looking for Joran to talk to him and try to find out where Natalee is.  Went to the wrong school first, the headmaster there asked them to stop putting up the missing posters there since Joran did not attend that school.  They started to leave and when they got to their car, the headmaster jaywalked across the street and approached them.  He told them that he did not want his name used and would not want anyone to know that he'd told them this, but that Joran attended the International School and he's there now, he's been sleeping there in a sleeping bag.  So they went to the International School and talked to the headmaster of the International School.  He explained to them that Paulus had been there a day or two earlier with Joran and explained what had happened with Natalee.  He said that Joran had taken Natalee to the lighthouse because she wanted to see the sharks, and that at some point she had fallen; he was just volunteering information but all the while saying what a good boy Joran was and that his father was about to become a judge and was an upstanding citizen of Aruba...he was just doing his best to cover for them.  Greta asked if they thought the man was believable or if they were suspicious of him.  Mitch said he was suspicious of him because one of the first things he said was that she could have drowned and with the way the currents are they would carry her out to see and they would never find the body.  He mentioned that the night that she went missing, probably they couldn't tell that she came back to the hotel because the cameras were not working.  How would he know these things unless he was coached into it.  And I was suspicious of what he had to say because it, from the day one this thing appeared to be cover up.  The police's main objective was protect Joran and to heck with finding Natalee.  Greta asks why he says that.  Mitch says that Van der Straten told them "I don't think I could arrest my best friends son, I'm his godfather and I honestly don't think that he's guilty I think he's a witness.  Mitch says he told Van der Straten that it was strange that he was the last person that saw her.  Van der Straten said he was working on another angle on that.  Mitch says the other angle was the two black men. 

Greta asks if there was anyone else that they met that gave them the impression of doing a good job or not in the investigation:

Mitch says they had a meeting with them and had 25 questions, not one of them was answered.  Greta asked who the meeting was with...the police?  Mitch said the strange thing was the police should be investigating Natalee's disappearance, but they were told in the meeting that the Aruban Tourism Department was in charge of the investigation.  It appeared that they weren't trying to investigate anything, it was damage control, they were worried about tourism..Not finding Natalee.  None of their questions were ever answered, if they presented any evidence it disappeared.

Ministry of Transportation and Tourism

The Strategic Communications Task Force is a working group established in Aruba to address the issues surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Task Force includes representatives from AHATA (Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association), ATA (Aruba Tourism Authority), business and government leaders ...

What we do

The Strategic Communications Task Force’s goal is to stay abreast of all developments in the Natalee Holloway disappearance, verify if information given is truthful and bring forward the correct facts when necessary. The Task Force also aims to inform the public and media whenever there is information that can be shared and monitor media coverage both locally and internationally in an effort to prevent and minimize any damage to the economic well being of Aruba. The Task Force believes that it is very important to keep the community at large well informed of the latest developments.

http://www.aruba.com/nholloway/taskforce.htm


Steve Cohen
ARUBA TRUTH
December 7, 2005

A coalition of groups announced Friday the appointment of Steve Cohen to act as spokesperson to North American media, in regards to the Natalee Holloway disappearance case.

AHATA and the ATA appointed Cohen to deal with all media relations concerning the case which still commands media coverage in the United States. Mr. Cohen has been part of the Strategic Communications Task Force since its creation in June. He has a full knowledge of the case and is an associate of the Strategic Message Design Group that has served in an advisory capacity to both ATA and AHATA.

The goal of this action is to coordinate the responses of the private and public sectors to North American media.


Steve Cohen
DR. PHIL SHOW
January 29, 2005

Steve Cohen, special advisor to Aruba, came on the show hoping for a chance to talk to Beth about where the investigation stands today. Dr. Phil turns to Steve. "So, you're a paid consultant?" he asks.

"That's correct," Steve replies.

"And, who pays you?" Dr. Phil probes.

"I'm actually paid by the tourism industry, which is the Aruban Tourism Authority, and also a group called AHACA, which is an association of hotel owners on the island."

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=3041&slide=4&showID=

[Blonde]

[MumInOhio]

(snipped)

Oh right...we are waiting on the 8 ball!

Well you're waaaaayyy ahead of me -- I'm still waiting for Larry Garrison's 'Deep Throat'.

 

I nominate you for 'Post of the Day month year decade'


AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES!!!
Justice for Natalee Holloway

Forgot about Deep Throat!

I nominate Ree's...

 

Off to read the transcript...

[2NJSons_Mom]

Tuesday, Dec. 2:
• The lawyer for Natalee Holloway's family speaks out his plea to have Joran van der Sloot re-arrested 'On the Record'!

10 p.m. ET

http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html

[Lala'sMom]

This is the article that Greta showed and said that she had it translated.  She said it is apparently causing some heat there in Aruba.  She said that the Minister of Justice, states that this case is a "Stain on Aruba". 

Bondia 11/27/2008 A3
http://bondia.com (you have to login to read the complete article at this time)

Does anyone have a translation of this article?  I am looking for something specific and need a really good translation?  Anyone?

[klaasend]

I was looking for the police car transcripts. On page 10 of this forum is the listing for them, started by Klaas. But when I click on it, nothing's there. Here's the link:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=254.0

Can someone tell me if they have the same trouble, please? TIA!

Police Car Transcripts stickied in the Important Case Doc area:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0

[Lala'sMom]

Another question...please.  Do we have the link to the transcripts of Greta where she is speaking with the man about the human trafficking last night?  I can't seem to find those. Thanks.

[2NJSons_Mom]

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," December 1, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Joran van der Sloot told us "On the Record" that he sold Natalee Holloway for $10,000. Now Van der Sloot says he was lying to us and made up the story.

Lie or no lie, it is a fact that human trafficking is an international crisis. Bigger numbers of people are sold for labor and sex and just plain cruelty.

Moments ago we spoke to Ambassador Mark Lagon, Secretary of State Rice's global advisor for fighting human trafficking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Ambassador, thank you very much for agreeing to sit down and talk with us.

AMBASSADOR MARK LAGON, SENIOR ADVISOR TO SECRETARY OF STATE: Great being with you.

VAN SUSTEREN: Ambassador, I'm not going to ask you about the Natalee Holloway case. While we have been seeking to prove or disprove what happened to her, one of the things that has come to our attention is the enormity of the problem with human trafficking. And this is your job.

RelatedColumn Archive
Human Trafficking: A Closer Look at a Growing Worldwide ProblemHolloway Family Friends Investigate Van der Sloot's HeadmasterWill Holloway Suspect and Dad Be Arrested After 'On the Record' Interview?Fallout From Joran van der Sloot's 'On the Record' InterviewJoran van der Sloot Goes 'On the Record' with New Natalee Holloway StoryFull-page Interview Archive

Stories
Report: Natalee Holloway Suspect Involved in Thai Sex Trafficking Possible New Witness in Natalee Holloway Case Video
Watch the video Photo Essays
Natalee Holloway Show Info
Airs Weekdays at 10 p.m. ET
E-mail the Show: ontherecord@foxnews.com Greta Van Susteren's Bio Read the GretaWire Interview Archive Greta's Pod Cast LAGON: It is. I head the office in the State Department to fight this problem of sex trafficking and forced labor, working with other countries.

VAN SUSTEREN: I was reading some of your materials--across borders over 800,000 people a year or more.

LAGON: If you look at trafficking within borders, it's millions, and across borders we think it's at least 800,000 people a year, many of them for sexual exploitation. We think a good 80 percent of them are females who are the victims.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is this a problem that, say, in the last five years is growing or is decreasing?

LAGON: I think it is growing. But we certainly are more aware of this problem. Nations around the world are beginning to put in place laws and only starting to effectively prosecute the bad guys.

VAN SUSTEREN: It's worldwide?

LAGON: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Our attention has been focused more on the South American and Caribbean area. You have given me this map. Tell me in this Aruba, Venezuela, Caribbean area, what has our state department determined?

Watch Greta's interview

LAGON: In the Caribbean, you see a lot of transit of human trafficking victims, a lot of them for sexual exploitation. In the region of Latin America there has been increased focus on children and prostitution, but not enough of people who are adults.

And there's a problem in the region, including where there is legal prostitution, where there are being a magnet for sex trafficking.

Venezuela had for three years in a row the lowest ranking in our annual global report on its record on fighting human trafficking until last year, and then it moved up to the second lowest category of the watchlist.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any record or history of actual trafficking through Aruba?

LAGON: There is. Aruba, being small, is not ranked in our report, but there are cases. Admittedly, much of the pattern seems to be going to Aruba. But it is quite conceivable that trafficking from Aruba is possible.

VAN SUSTEREN: In Aruba, do you find that the policemen are willing to look at the problem? Are they honest, thorough, good, or does our state department have any problem with the law enforcement in Aruba?

LAGON: I am not in a position to give a really good assessment of that. But it is a region in which, in Latin America, corruption and lack of efficacy and law-enforcement is serious.

VAN SUSTEREN: We have some been dealing with the Natalee Holloway case, and you are not part of this investigation, but we have some information that we would like them to look at. But there is an unwillingness to even look at what we have. Do you find that unusual?

LAGON: Everyone should be open to the opportunity to look at evidence, because the possibility of trafficking in this region is serious.

VAN SUSTEREN: What do these women say, and I don't know if you have ever spoken to them or talked to people who have been the victim of trafficking-everyone says why don't you just walk away? I have talked to them, and I know what-but what to do here?

LAGON: The definition of human trafficking by law and under U.N. treaties involved force, fraud, and coercion.

In general prostitution, there is a lot of violence and manipulation by pimps. And in the situation of the human trafficking it is terribly acute.

Oftentimes people are kept in a brothel and cannot leave. They are living and being exploited in the same place. Their traffickers get them into debt. They make them afraid that if they run they will only be treated like a criminal.

VAN SUSTEREN: I take it then that you are not dismissive of the possibility that this could have happened to Natalee Holloway?

LAGON: I'm not. The flow of human trafficking through this region is significant. Rule of law is lacking. Where there are even laws, like in Aruba, they are not well implemented. It is quite possible that this is happening on a significant scale. So you really can't reject out of hand that idea.

VAN SUSTEREN: Ambassador, thank you.

LAGON: Pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,460130,00.html

[vms]

THIS IS REAL: Human Trafficking (don’t believe me? watch!)
by Greta Van Susteren

Just in case you missed our ON THE RECORD interview last night with Ambassador Mark Lagon, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s adviser for human trafficking, here is your chance. Later today, we will post our full interview right here on GretaWire and show you what we weren’t able to broadcast last night.

Ambassador Lagon didn’t comment directly on the ongoing investigation in the Natalee Holloway case but he wasn’t dismissive of the possibility that she could have been sold into human trafficking:

Link to Video


http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/12/02/our-look-at-the-real-worldwide-problem-of-human-trafficking/

[BUCKSHOT]

Maybe we should get Arlene Schippers to explain Aruban law to us...

Arlene Schippers: In Aruba, our law states the following: (a) a suspect can lie their ass off. (b) a witness can lie their ass off, too. (c) a witness can tell the truth if they want to. (d) if the witness is switched back to a suspect, based on their testimony, they can just lie their ass off, again. (e) a suspect's family can obstruct justice, lie, destroy evidence, or pay people off without any consequence. Hopefully, that makes sense...
 

Media: I have to admit, I am confused...

Arlene Schippers: Sorry. Maybe I can get "Tickle-Me" Tito Lacle or Ruben "MySpace" Trapenburg to explain our law better for you.

[Lala'sMom]

<<<<snipped>>>>

VAN SUSTEREN: Ambassador, thank you very much for agreeing to sit down and talk with us.

AMBASSADOR MARK LAGON, SENIOR ADVISOR TO SECRETARY OF STATE: Great being with you.

VAN SUSTEREN: Ambassador, I'm not going to ask you about the Natalee Holloway case. While we have been seeking to prove or disprove what happened to her, one of the things that has come to our attention is the enormity of the problem with human trafficking. And this is your job.

Why is this?  Because...there is an agency above FBI that is involved in this entire case and have been from the start.  Time is running out though, those that are friendly to this case will fade soon with the next administration, unfortunately.

[Lala'sMom]

Sure is quiet in here today...with all this new stuff I would think we would be dissecting and discussing.  Hmmmm.