Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 - 12/3/08

[Keepthefaith]

First of all.......can anyone believe that the crew members of the Persistence
let that fish trap, with what looked like a scull in it, sit there for a week waiting for the
Aruban divers to show up?  I wouldn't have. And I would have probably taken
a sample of what was there.

If Silvetti sold his footage.......he probably had some proof.

Kyle didn't have any proof and therefore did not make his sale. He just had pictures
of a fish trap with what looked like somebody's remains.

Case Closed!!!

Why were Natalee's family not made aware of this "proof"?  Why was the FBI not made aware of this "proof"?  Why was one member of the Persistence able to sell those images for "big bucks"?  Why was another member of the Persistence attempting to sell those images "without proof"?   

Janet

++++


ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

Janet, you aren't even a bad dream, let alone a nightmare.  We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

One would hope that the FBI has,or will interrogate every American that had anything to do with the search!

[Magnolia]

Janet,
You scare me and I don't like to argue, but we know now
that much of what Kyle posted was not true, so how do
we know which parts to believe.  We had no idea that the
people aboard the Persistence were anything more than
honorable people.  I can see many possibilities now.

[Tamikosmom]

Believe it or not ... I am a believer in the theory that Natalee was placed in the landfill within days of her disappearance and ... then moved shortly after following Junior's reported observation.

 

Janet

____


Aruba Missing Teen
Posted: 8:38 AM Aug 1, 2005
Last Updated: 8:38 AM Aug 1, 2005
Reporter: Associated Press

A volunteer group searching for a missing Alabama teenager dug through a landfill in Aruba for a third day today (Sunday) but found no clues.

The search resumes tomorrow.

An Aruban man said he was at the landfill dropping off trash when he saw men dump and cover the body of a blonde female, two days after Natalee Holloway disappeared.

Police spokesman Edwin Comenencia said police searched the landfill after receiving the tip days after Holloway's disappearance May 30th, but found nothing.

He said the witness recently approached Holloway's family, who asked for another search.

http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/1756907.html

[texasmom]

The Problem of Human Trafficking - The Full Interview
by Greta Van Susteren

As promised, here is what we were not able to show you in our ON THE RECORD interview last night with Ambassador Mark Lagon, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s global adviser on human trafficking:

Link to Video

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/12/02/the-problem-of-human-trafficking-the-full-interview/

I really don't think Natalee lived past Sunday night/ Monday morning...but this Ambassador did such a good and sincere job, in this interview, I will forever be more aware....."disposable people"...

I know how you feel Buckeye, very eye opening interview!  

[Buckeye]

I thought our State Dept already asked for that and I am also pretty sure Senator Richard Shelby did as well. 

To no avail, of course.

I believe the Ambassador addressed this a bit.  He said about statements regarding "autonomy" (haven't we heard that over and over?) and that his department has ways of working around that because there is international interest....they even have dialog with Venezuela.  He has done background on Aruba....they need to pass laws...and the bit of law they have...needs to be enforced....he's not surprised by the possibilities because you can't get the data (so Aruba's claim about not having any history..is useless).

[Keepthefaith]

Believe it or not ... I am a believer in the theory that Natalee was placed in the landfill within days of her disappearance and ... then moved shortly after following Junior's reported observation.

 

Janet

____


Aruba Missing Teen
Posted: 8:38 AM Aug 1, 2005
Last Updated: 8:38 AM Aug 1, 2005
Reporter: Associated Press

A volunteer group searching for a missing Alabama teenager dug through a landfill in Aruba for a third day today (Sunday) but found no clues.

The search resumes tomorrow.

An Aruban man said he was at the landfill dropping off trash when he saw men dump and cover the body of a blonde female, two days after Natalee Holloway disappeared.

Police spokesman Edwin Comenencia said police searched the landfill after receiving the tip days after Holloway's disappearance May 30th, but found nothing.

He said the witness recently approached Holloway's family, who asked for another search.

http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/1756907.html

I understand completely Janet!Do we know where all the interested parties from the Persistence are at these days???

[Ono]

The Problem of Human Trafficking - The Full Interview
by Greta Van Susteren

As promised, here is what we were not able to show you in our ON THE RECORD interview last night with Ambassador Mark Lagon, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s global adviser on human trafficking:

Link to Video


I compleely agree and let's pray that at least one young girl [ looking forward to her Graduation Trip, etc. ] and her parents as well, saw this and changed any plans that they may have had if they were contemplating a trip to Aruba in the Spring of 2009.....and chose instead the Bahamas or someplace else located within British Common Law where a victim would stand a chance at justice.  Enough with the foolishness of Aruba and it's faux laws.  Enough!

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/12/02/the-problem-of-human-trafficking-the-full-interview/

I really don't think Natalee lived past Sunday night/ Monday morning...but this Ambassador did such a good and sincere job, in this interview, I will forever be more aware....."disposable people"...

[Ono]

There are far safer places to vacation than Aruba.... [ and it is too way close to Venezuela ...]   

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,
You scare me and I don't like to argue, but we know now
that much of what Kyle posted was not true, so how do
we know which parts to believe.  We had no idea that the
people aboard the Persistence were anything more than
honorable people.  I can see many possibilities now.

From the getgo ... I was bother about the search effort of the Persistence.  I felt that the crew/organizers were either naive regarding their cooperative relationship with the Arubans ... or the crew/organizers possessed underlying motivations that did not equate to justice for Natalee Holloway.

However ... I was met with hostility from certain Monkeys when I dared questioned aspects of the search effort and the words of Kyle's posts that troubled me greatly.  With a heavy heart ... I left the forum for five months.

I believe that Beth Holloway's brother said it best.

Janet

______


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857


private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

[Buckeye]

By Hazel Heyer | Jan 16, 2008

Nassau, Bahamas (eTN)

Snips of interview with Minister of Tourism Briesen:

....eTN caught up with Aruba’s minister of tourism and transportation, Edison Briesen, who said the island is back in business despite the revival of the Holloway incident, which has become fodder for the media. In an exclusive interview at the Caribbean Hotel Association Marketplace held January 13-15 on Paradise Island, Bahamas, Briesen confirmed the US remains strong as its number one market.....

We have spent a lot of money bringing in experts from day one to the last day of December 2007, including Dutch investigation experts. We heard the mother and the Holloway family will seek publicity again in the US, which we’ll have to counter....

eTN: With an image of being a peaceful island on the Caribbean, why do you think this incident has been lingering and has continued to impact the tourism industry of Aruba?
Briesen: I don’t know about the family problems they have which seem to be the reason behind this case. In the Caribbean, this is the first time an island has been pounded this long by a single event. It’s been over a year and a half now and the publicity has not ended. I don’t know what other reasons there exist. We’ve opened our doors to help the family solve their issue. We’ve been cooperative and have spent a lot of government money on the investigation....

eTN: Has this been a big challenge to tourism?
Briesen: Among all challenges we’ve faced, including airlift, US economy slowdown, gas prices etc, this particularly has taken up our time and resources. Everybody got involved in this case. People from the tourism department have been moved to the justice department to help solve the disappearance. This incident has kept us ‘hostage’ for more than a year. In 2006, we even launched an ad campaign worth $5 M in the US to counter the negative broadcast. On the other side of the coin, more people now know about Aruba. But I would not want Aruba to be known in the same way Iraq is known. One reason why we think it has been a hard blow to us....

eTN: Do you want closure for the family?
Briesen: Of course, we went out of our way to help them. We’ve been very cooperative.....

Three of four visitors to Aruba are Americans. This is a case that boggles us. But we’d like to forget and move on.

http://www.eturbonews.com/865/us-still-drives-business-aruba-after-holloway-case-closed

[Tamikosmom]

Believe it or not ... I am a believer in the theory that Natalee was placed in the landfill within days of her disappearance and ... then moved shortly after following Junior's reported observation.

 

Janet

____


Aruba Missing Teen
Posted: 8:38 AM Aug 1, 2005
Last Updated: 8:38 AM Aug 1, 2005
Reporter: Associated Press

A volunteer group searching for a missing Alabama teenager dug through a landfill in Aruba for a third day today (Sunday) but found no clues.

The search resumes tomorrow.

An Aruban man said he was at the landfill dropping off trash when he saw men dump and cover the body of a blonde female, two days after Natalee Holloway disappeared.

Police spokesman Edwin Comenencia said police searched the landfill after receiving the tip days after Holloway's disappearance May 30th, but found nothing.

He said the witness recently approached Holloway's family, who asked for another search.

http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/1756907.html

I understand completely Janet!

Do we know where all the interested parties from the Persistence are at these days???

No idea Keepthefaith.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Believe it or not ... I am a believer in the theory that Natalee was placed in the landfill within days of her disappearance and ... then moved shortly after following Junior's reported observation.

 

Janet

____


Aruba Missing Teen
Posted: 8:38 AM Aug 1, 2005
Last Updated: 8:38 AM Aug 1, 2005
Reporter: Associated Press

A volunteer group searching for a missing Alabama teenager dug through a landfill in Aruba for a third day today (Sunday) but found no clues.

The search resumes tomorrow.

An Aruban man said he was at the landfill dropping off trash when he saw men dump and cover the body of a blonde female, two days after Natalee Holloway disappeared.

Police spokesman Edwin Comenencia said police searched the landfill after receiving the tip days after Holloway's disappearance May 30th, but found nothing.

He said the witness recently approached Holloway's family, who asked for another search.

http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/1756907.html

I understand completely Janet!

Do we know where all the interested parties from the Persistence are at these days???

No idea Keepthefaith.

Janet

Do we know what Dave,Beth,as well as what Tim thinks of this??I get angry just thinkin about what transpired out there..If the persistence didn't "Find" Natalee when are they going back out to search the remaining objects.is "NEVER" the answer???

[Buckeye]

I received this email a short time ago …..here is the email (below) minus the emailer’s name and email address (I removed it to protect him):


Subject: Joran van der Sloot is hiding in Manila

I saw him playing poker at the Hyatt hotel in Manila last night. He goes by the name Murphy and said that he was stuck in the Philippines due to the riots at the Thailand airport. However, I checked Google and it looks like he is now wanted in Thailand and cannot be found. In the casino, I also saw him sit down with an old man. It appeared that the old man was showing Joran pictures, perhaps of an apartment or house in the Philippines for Joran.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

[wreck]

I received this email a short time ago …..here is the email (below) minus the emailer’s name and email address (I removed it to protect him):


Subject: Joran van der Sloot is hiding in Manila

I saw him playing poker at the Hyatt hotel in Manila last night. He goes by the name Murphy and said that he was stuck in the Philippines due to the riots at the Thailand airport. However, I checked Google and it looks like he is now wanted in Thailand and cannot be found. In the casino, I also saw him sit down with an old man. It appeared that the old man was showing Joran pictures, perhaps of an apartment or house in the Philippines for Joran.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

I think Joran has already signed his own "death warrant." His big mouth will be his demise.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.

Greater New York City Area


-snipped-
Kyle Kingman’s Experience
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager
Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
(Oil & Energy industry)

October 2008 — Present (3 months)

Manager
Kingman Geophysical Solutions
(Oil & Energy industry)

May 2004 — October 2008 (4 years 6 months)
-snipped-


http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

**********
I posted this a couple weeks ago, I think.  (October to present, imo, would be 2 months, but not sure when this was actually written)....seems home base is still here in NJ.

[Tamikosmom]

The following words of Tim Miller gave me uneasy feeling regarding the search effort of Persistence and ... the search effort was not even underway.  Then the repeat of his same words following the discovery of the cage ...

I cannot comprehend basing an undertaking of this magnitude on the words of a man who headed the Aruban investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice ... who is a participant in the coverup.  If Gerold Dompig had told Tamikosmom to go west ... she would have gone east.  Case Closed!

Nevertheless ... it was my hope that my uneasy feeling was was wrong so ... I prayfully and ... I financially support the search effort through TES "in the beginning".

Janet

++++++

FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

MILLER: ... Gerold Dompig actually told us when Dave and I was over there; that he felt that Natalee was out in the water, that the night the fishermen's hut was broken into, a knife was stolen, a rope was stolen and a large crab trap was stolen.

Gerold Dompig's words were "Natalee was put in that crab trap, they put rocks in it and they took her out 3 to 5 miles and she's 800 to 1,000 feet deep" and we always thought about the water anyhow.

When Dave and I were over there we actually found the boat we truly feel took Natalee out to sea ...


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

VAN SUSTEREN: Alright you said DNA, this was found in a crab trap below the surface in the water right?

MILLER:  It was in the water and Greta we was looking for a crab trap because we got reports that the night Natalee disappeared one of the fishermen's huts was broken into and a crab trap was stolen and I actually talked to a man there at the fishermen's huts, he verified about the hut being broken into and the crab trap being taken so it was really one of the things we was looking for.  In fact Chief Dompig told me 2-1/2 years ago in October when we was at the landfill that we needed to be out in the water, and he felt as though Natalee was put in a crab trap or some type of container ...

[texasmom]

I want to know who was in the cage too!  

Yes, it's larger than the one reported stolen from the fisherman's huts but has that witness passed a lie detector test?  I don't think so.  I don't know who the fisherman is and I also find it suspicious that he just happened to come to the fisherman's huts when Dr. Hodges and Tim Miller were there in the early days of the Persistence search.  For all we know that cage may be in someone's back yard, or it was picked up by someone else to trap some crabs in.  

Maybe the fisherman's last name is Naar too!  

Maybe I'm just suspicious of anything and everything that we have been told to be fact out of that stinkhole of lies and deceit.  

My eyes don't lie, and somebody didn't want the person that was placed in that cage to be found.  I want somebody to prove to me that it wasn't Natalee.  Please!

o.k. I think I'll go take a nap now.

[Magnolia]

I don't think that the trap at the fisherman huts had anything
to do with this case.
I think that the big trap had been there for a good period of time
without a body in it.
The Arishi Wreck is nearby.  I think the Gottenbos boys dove
there and knew of the trap that was already in place.
I think that Natalee was taken to the trap, when they needed
a place to hide her body. in the Gottenbos' boat.
Kyle said...if we can believe him...that it was almost exactly
where Tim Miller had suspected.

[Buckeye]

I don't think that the trap at the fisherman huts had anything
to do with this case.
I think that the big trap had been there for a good period of time
without a body in it.
The Arishi Wreck is nearby.  I think the Gottenbos boys dove
there and knew of the trap that was already in place.
I think that Natalee was taken to the trap, when they needed
a place to hide her body. in the Gottenbos' boat.
Kyle said...if we can believe him...that it was almost exactly
where Tim Miller had suspected.

I want to know if Sander (and Koen) spent the night on the boat due to the Soul Beach.  Sander had said he invited Joran on the boat that Sunday...maybe Joran met up with them later that night....when Sander lost his phone with the pics...

[Magnolia]

I don't think that the trap at the fisherman huts had anything
to do with this case.
I think that the big trap had been there for a good period of time
without a body in it.
The Arishi Wreck is nearby.  I think the Gottenbos boys dove
there and knew of the trap that was already in place.
I think that Natalee was taken to the trap, when they needed
a place to hide her body. in the Gottenbos' boat.
Kyle said...if we can believe him...that it was almost exactly
where Tim Miller had suspected.

I want to know if Sander (and Koen) spent the night on the boat due to the Soul Beach.  Sander had said he invited Joran on the boat that Sunday...maybe Joran met up with them later that night....when Sander lost his phone with the pics...

Wasn't the Gottenbos' boat moored at the Marriott marina that night?