Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #66

[joesamas mama]

Doesn't anybody else think it's more likely that something tragic happened to Casey's boy? Not adoption? Why would her grandmother (Shirley) write to Cindy about how tragic it was, and how she felt as sad about it as she would if it were her own child, if this was an adoption? Yeah, you'd probably be sad not to have that child in your life, but her words seem a bit too dramatic for that, IMO.  Plus.. why would Casey have the sono pic of a child she gave away? Why remind yourself of something like that? It's more likely IMO that this child died.

Assuming there was in fact another child...

I doubt if Casey kept the sonogram of the male child, Cindy did.

And if that's the case, I would think it's more likely she would have kept it if the child had died, and not if it were given up for adoption.

If there was an adoption, I'm sure it was Casey's decision, not Cindy's.  Cindy would have been very upset, but Casey could have cared less, IMO.

I'm sure you're right about that.. she wouldn't have cared less. The point I'm making is this. We supposedly have 2 sonogram pics.. somebody said there was a blue ribbon on one, a pink on the other..  or something to that effect.  This means we're talking about either Lee and Casey, or two of Casey's children.  If one of these children was given away for adoption - and especially if Casey didn't even want the child - there wouldn't be any logical reason to keep this child's sonogram picture out for the world to see.  Not only would it be a reminder to everybody how Casey screwed up and couldn't take care of a kid, but how do you explain that to people who come over and see it?   As well, it's a painful reminder that your daughter (thinking of Cindy here) ripped your grandchild away from you.  We know Cindy was more than willing to take care of Caylee, so why not this other child? Because more than likely, it died prematurely.. miscarriage, still-birth, etc.  Even if Casey didn't think it was all that tragic, I'm sure Cindy would have-  Cindy's mom certainly would have. Perhaps Cindy kept the sono pic out for her own reasons... perhaps Casey felt like she needed to keep it out to make people "happy".  Who knows.

Does anybody know if doctors sign death certificates for a miscarriage? Or still-birth?? (I'd think one would have been if the baby died shortly after birth).  If so, I would think it would be possible to come up with a record of this happening, if in fact it did. 

Maybe Casey miscarried at home and that is why Fire/Rescue was called in February 2004.

[N2WISHN]

I do not believe there was an odor being emitted from the inside of the trunk of Casey Anthony's vehicle until after the "gas can" encounter between George and Casey on August 24th.

++++++

The blanks regarding who, when, why and where need to be filled in but ... sticking with Ockham's Razor ...

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.

+++++++++


June 16:  After she meets her demise ... Caylee is put in a plastic bag/container placed inside the trunk of Casey's vehicle.

June 18th:  Prior to the producing of any body decomposition fluids or odor ... Caylee is taken from inside the trunk and ... buried in the backyard using a borrowed shovel.

June 24th:  Casey confides in her father and ... Caylee is retrieved from the backyard and ... placed inside the trunk where body decomposition fluid leaks and permenates the carpet.

June 24th - 27th:  Prior to Casey's vehicle being abondoned at Amscot .. Caylee's remains are transported to another location.

June 25th:  Casey relates to Amy that there is an odor inside her vehicle.

Janet

_______


Crime Expert Analyzes Casey Anthony Case, Evidence
POSTED: 4:04 pm EDT July 23, 2008
UPDATED: 4:17 pm EDT July 23, 2008

The Anthony's Backyard: Involved a tip that Casey Anthony borrowed a shovel from a neighbor. Two cadaver dogs pointed to the smell of decomposition near Caylee's playhouse.

Casey Anthony's Car: Detectives reported a different dog alerted to the same strong smell in the trunk after the white Pontiac had been abandoned in a parking lot

http://www.wftv.com/news/16968013/detail.html


George Anthony Set To Testify Against Casey In Front Of Grand Jury
POSTED: 6:11 am EDT October 10, 2008
UPDATED: 1:58 pm EDT October 13, 2008

Sources told Eyewitness News the Orange County grand jury will hear about high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car. The panel will hear how lab tests on the hair and the stain in the trunk will show that Caylee's body was in that trunk and that investigators also believe the little girl's body was at some point in the Anthony's backyard near her playhouse.

The focus on when Caylee was murdered is on the afternoon of June 16, sometime between mid-day, when Caylee's grandfather last saw her alive with Casey, and the evening, when Casey went to her boyfriend's apartment without Caylee.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17684992/detail.html


Cell Phone Pings Help Track Casey Anthony's Movements Over 3 Days
Caylee Anthony Last Seen In June
POSTED: 1:06 pm EST November 3, 2008
UPDATED: 3:57 pm EST November 3, 2008

On Wednesday, June 18, the day Casey's parents' neighbor said Anthony borrowed a shovel and backed her car into the garage, cell phone pings show that Anthony was at or near her parents' home from 2:30 p.m. until 3:30 p.m., Pipitone said.

http://www.local6.com/news/17874799/detail.html

But what about all of the trunk evidence indicating early decomp?Early decomp within 2.6 days? 

maybe, just maybe, little Caylee's body laid in the trunk from the 15th or 16th of June until the day Casey borrowed the shovel and backed the car into the garage? Then having backed in she moved the body from the trunk with a shovel and placed it in a container of some type and put it back into the trunk with the intention of disposing of it later?

[TxLady2]

I asked kindly what obstruction of justice charge Cindy had to Krause and he again declined to post the comment.

Either he knows something none of us know or he is lying.  I thought he was all about the truth according to him and he says she has an obstruction of justice charge but refuses to address.

Interesting.  I will wait and see if he is just MSU'in.  <making stuff up>

Could it be about the hairbrush? If it isn't, I'm very curious.

Well we have hints that perhaps she should get a charge but he is very specific:

The problem is that Cindy Anthony has lied to me, for 2 weeks now, and with the obstruction of justice charge now pressed against her, it’s time to clear the airwaves and address what we did discuss.


There is no wiggle room there.  He says now pressed against her.  That tells me either he is making stuff up or he knows something we don't.  I doubt he knows anything we don't know because he seems a bit behind on facts in the case from what I see.

It would have to be more than just the hairbrush... they picked that up 3 or 4 months ago, and discovered that it was a brush that contained both Casey's and Caylee's hair. So, technically... she did not obstruct anything. If they were going to charge her with obstruction for that OR for washing the pants, then they would have done it before now, don't you think? One would have to assume that if they know it was Caylee's body decomposing in the trunk, then they acquired enough samples with her DNA on them to make that comparison.
Personally I think Mr. Krause is full of the title of his blog.... but that's just me.

[Tamikosmom]

I do not believe there was an odor being emitted from the inside of the trunk of Casey Anthony's vehicle until after the "gas can" encounter between George and Casey on August 24th.

++++++

The blanks regarding who, when, why and where need to be filled in but ... sticking with Ockham's Razor ...

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.

+++++++++


June 16:  After she meets her demise ... Caylee is put in a plastic bag/container placed inside the trunk of Casey's vehicle.

June 18th:  Prior to the producing of any body decomposition fluids or odor ... Caylee is taken from inside the trunk and ... buried in the backyard using a borrowed shovel.

June 24th:  Casey confides in her father and ... Caylee is retrieved from the backyard and ... placed inside the trunk where body decomposition fluid leaks and permenates the carpet.

June 24th - 27th:  Prior to Casey's vehicle being abondoned at Amscot .. Caylee's remains are transported to another location.

June 25th:  Casey relates to Amy that there is an odor inside her vehicle.

Janet

_______


Crime Expert Analyzes Casey Anthony Case, Evidence
POSTED: 4:04 pm EDT July 23, 2008
UPDATED: 4:17 pm EDT July 23, 2008

The Anthony's Backyard: Involved a tip that Casey Anthony borrowed a shovel from a neighbor. Two cadaver dogs pointed to the smell of decomposition near Caylee's playhouse.

Casey Anthony's Car: Detectives reported a different dog alerted to the same strong smell in the trunk after the white Pontiac had been abandoned in a parking lot

http://www.wftv.com/news/16968013/detail.html


George Anthony Set To Testify Against Casey In Front Of Grand Jury
POSTED: 6:11 am EDT October 10, 2008
UPDATED: 1:58 pm EDT October 13, 2008

Sources told Eyewitness News the Orange County grand jury will hear about high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car. The panel will hear how lab tests on the hair and the stain in the trunk will show that Caylee's body was in that trunk and that investigators also believe the little girl's body was at some point in the Anthony's backyard near her playhouse.

The focus on when Caylee was murdered is on the afternoon of June 16, sometime between mid-day, when Caylee's grandfather last saw her alive with Casey, and the evening, when Casey went to her boyfriend's apartment without Caylee.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17684992/detail.html


Cell Phone Pings Help Track Casey Anthony's Movements Over 3 Days
Caylee Anthony Last Seen In June
POSTED: 1:06 pm EST November 3, 2008
UPDATED: 3:57 pm EST November 3, 2008

On Wednesday, June 18, the day Casey's parents' neighbor said Anthony borrowed a shovel and backed her car into the garage, cell phone pings show that Anthony was at or near her parents' home from 2:30 p.m. until 3:30 p.m., Pipitone said.

http://www.local6.com/news/17874799/detail.html

But what about all of the trunk evidence indicating early decomp?Early decomp within 2.6 days? 

I do not believe that once decomposition had set in ...  Caylee's Marie's remains were inside the trunk of Casey's vehicle for longer than 3 days.

Janet
_____

As per my theory above:

I do not believe there was an odor being emitted from the inside of the trunk of Casey Anthony's vehicle until after the "gas can" encounter between George and Casey on August 24th.

June 24th - 27th:  Prior to Casey's vehicle being abondoned at Amscot .. Caylee's remains are transported to another location.

[txlisa]

Doesn't anybody else think it's more likely that something tragic happened to Casey's boy? Not adoption? Why would her grandmother (Shirley) write to Cindy about how tragic it was, and how she felt as sad about it as she would if it were her own child, if this was an adoption? Yeah, you'd probably be sad not to have that child in your life, but her words seem a bit too dramatic for that, IMO.  Plus.. why would Casey have the sono pic of a child she gave away? Why remind yourself of something like that? It's more likely IMO that this child died.

Assuming there was in fact another child...

I doubt if Casey kept the sonogram of the male child, Cindy did.

And if that's the case, I would think it's more likely she would have kept it if the child had died, and not if it were given up for adoption.

If there was an adoption, I'm sure it was Casey's decision, not Cindy's.  Cindy would have been very upset, but Casey could have cared less, IMO.

I'm sure you're right about that.. she wouldn't have cared less. The point I'm making is this. We supposedly have 2 sonogram pics.. somebody said there was a blue ribbon on one, a pink on the other..  or something to that effect.  This means we're talking about either Lee and Casey, or two of Casey's children.  If one of these children was given away for adoption - and especially if Casey didn't even want the child - there wouldn't be any logical reason to keep this child's sonogram picture out for the world to see.  Not only would it be a reminder to everybody how Casey screwed up and couldn't take care of a kid, but how do you explain that to people who come over and see it?   As well, it's a painful reminder that your daughter (thinking of Cindy here) ripped your grandchild away from you.  We know Cindy was more than willing to take care of Caylee, so why not this other child? Because more than likely, it died prematurely.. miscarriage, still-birth, etc.  Even if Casey didn't think it was all that tragic, I'm sure Cindy would have-  Cindy's mom certainly would have. Perhaps Cindy kept the sono pic out for her own reasons... perhaps Casey felt like she needed to keep it out to make people "happy".  Who knows.

Does anybody know if doctors sign death certificates for a miscarriage? Or still-birth?? (I'd think one would have been if the baby died shortly after birth).  If so, I would think it would be possible to come up with a record of this happening, if in fact it did. 

Maybe Casey miscarried at home and that is why Fire/Rescue was called in February 2004.

Wasn't Casey supposed to graduate in May of 2004?  And now we know she did graduate later.  I do not think death certificates are issued for miscarriages or stillbirths before 23 weeks.  But I could be wrong.

Lisa

[joesamas mama]

Doesn't anybody else think it's more likely that something tragic happened to Casey's boy? Not adoption? Why would her grandmother (Shirley) write to Cindy about how tragic it was, and how she felt as sad about it as she would if it were her own child, if this was an adoption? Yeah, you'd probably be sad not to have that child in your life, but her words seem a bit too dramatic for that, IMO.  Plus.. why would Casey have the sono pic of a child she gave away? Why remind yourself of something like that? It's more likely IMO that this child died.

Assuming there was in fact another child...

I doubt if Casey kept the sonogram of the male child, Cindy did.

And if that's the case, I would think it's more likely she would have kept it if the child had died, and not if it were given up for adoption.

If there was an adoption, I'm sure it was Casey's decision, not Cindy's.  Cindy would have been very upset, but Casey could have cared less, IMO.

I'm sure you're right about that.. she wouldn't have cared less. The point I'm making is this. We supposedly have 2 sonogram pics.. somebody said there was a blue ribbon on one, a pink on the other..  or something to that effect.  This means we're talking about either Lee and Casey, or two of Casey's children.  If one of these children was given away for adoption - and especially if Casey didn't even want the child - there wouldn't be any logical reason to keep this child's sonogram picture out for the world to see.  Not only would it be a reminder to everybody how Casey screwed up and couldn't take care of a kid, but how do you explain that to people who come over and see it?   As well, it's a painful reminder that your daughter (thinking of Cindy here) ripped your grandchild away from you.  We know Cindy was more than willing to take care of Caylee, so why not this other child? Because more than likely, it died prematurely.. miscarriage, still-birth, etc.  Even if Casey didn't think it was all that tragic, I'm sure Cindy would have-  Cindy's mom certainly would have. Perhaps Cindy kept the sono pic out for her own reasons... perhaps Casey felt like she needed to keep it out to make people "happy".  Who knows.

Does anybody know if doctors sign death certificates for a miscarriage? Or still-birth?? (I'd think one would have been if the baby died shortly after birth).  If so, I would think it would be possible to come up with a record of this happening, if in fact it did. 

Maybe Casey miscarried at home and that is why Fire/Rescue was called in February 2004.

Wasn't Casey supposed to graduate in May of 2004?  And now we know she did graduate later.  I do not think death certificates are issued for miscarriages or stillbirths before 23 weeks.  But I could be wrong.

Lisa

I'm still confused over her transcript showed she withdrawn, but the handwritten note says she didn't graduate due to lack of credits, so she must have went to summer school. Cindy and George both say she never graduated. I'm not sure about the death certificates, sorry.

[mammy]

Doesn't anybody else think it's more likely that something tragic happened to Casey's boy? Not adoption? Why would her grandmother (Shirley) write to Cindy about how tragic it was, and how she felt as sad about it as she would if it were her own child, if this was an adoption? Yeah, you'd probably be sad not to have that child in your life, but her words seem a bit too dramatic for that, IMO.  Plus.. why would Casey have the sono pic of a child she gave away? Why remind yourself of something like that? It's more likely IMO that this child died.

Assuming there was in fact another child...

I doubt if Casey kept the sonogram of the male child, Cindy did.

And if that's the case, I would think it's more likely she would have kept it if the child had died, and not if it were given up for adoption.

If there was an adoption, I'm sure it was Casey's decision, not Cindy's.  Cindy would have been very upset, but Casey could have cared less, IMO.

I'm sure you're right about that.. she wouldn't have cared less. The point I'm making is this. We supposedly have 2 sonogram pics.. somebody said there was a blue ribbon on one, a pink on the other..  or something to that effect.  This means we're talking about either Lee and Casey, or two of Casey's children.  If one of these children was given away for adoption - and especially if Casey didn't even want the child - there wouldn't be any logical reason to keep this child's sonogram picture out for the world to see.  Not only would it be a reminder to everybody how Casey screwed up and couldn't take care of a kid, but how do you explain that to people who come over and see it?   As well, it's a painful reminder that your daughter (thinking of Cindy here) ripped your grandchild away from you.  We know Cindy was more than willing to take care of Caylee, so why not this other child? Because more than likely, it died prematurely.. miscarriage, still-birth, etc.  Even if Casey didn't think it was all that tragic, I'm sure Cindy would have-  Cindy's mom certainly would have. Perhaps Cindy kept the sono pic out for her own reasons... perhaps Casey felt like she needed to keep it out to make people "happy".  Who knows.

Does anybody know if doctors sign death certificates for a miscarriage? Or still-birth?? (I'd think one would have been if the baby died shortly after birth).  If so, I would think it would be possible to come up with a record of this happening, if in fact it did. 

Maybe Casey miscarried at home and that is why Fire/Rescue was called in February 2004.

Wasn't Casey supposed to graduate in May of 2004?  And now we know she did graduate later.  I do not think death certificates are issued for miscarriages or stillbirths before 23 weeks.  But I could be wrong.

Lisa

I didn't know Casey graduated.  I was basing my information regarding stillbirths on my personal experience, which was past the 23 weeks.

[no rose colored glasses]

In the first doc released the other day it states Caylee's death occured at the Hopespring address, I wonder if they have info that we are not privy to, that supports this, otherwise I would have no idea why that was stated. I would certainly think they would not just guess where the death occured.

[txlisa]

Doesn't anybody else think it's more likely that something tragic happened to Casey's boy? Not adoption? Why would her grandmother (Shirley) write to Cindy about how tragic it was, and how she felt as sad about it as she would if it were her own child, if this was an adoption? Yeah, you'd probably be sad not to have that child in your life, but her words seem a bit too dramatic for that, IMO.  Plus.. why would Casey have the sono pic of a child she gave away? Why remind yourself of something like that? It's more likely IMO that this child died.

Assuming there was in fact another child...

I doubt if Casey kept the sonogram of the male child, Cindy did.

And if that's the case, I would think it's more likely she would have kept it if the child had died, and not if it were given up for adoption.

If there was an adoption, I'm sure it was Casey's decision, not Cindy's.  Cindy would have been very upset, but Casey could have cared less, IMO.

I'm sure you're right about that.. she wouldn't have cared less. The point I'm making is this. We supposedly have 2 sonogram pics.. somebody said there was a blue ribbon on one, a pink on the other..  or something to that effect.  This means we're talking about either Lee and Casey, or two of Casey's children.  If one of these children was given away for adoption - and especially if Casey didn't even want the child - there wouldn't be any logical reason to keep this child's sonogram picture out for the world to see.  Not only would it be a reminder to everybody how Casey screwed up and couldn't take care of a kid, but how do you explain that to people who come over and see it?   As well, it's a painful reminder that your daughter (thinking of Cindy here) ripped your grandchild away from you.  We know Cindy was more than willing to take care of Caylee, so why not this other child? Because more than likely, it died prematurely.. miscarriage, still-birth, etc.  Even if Casey didn't think it was all that tragic, I'm sure Cindy would have-  Cindy's mom certainly would have. Perhaps Cindy kept the sono pic out for her own reasons... perhaps Casey felt like she needed to keep it out to make people "happy".  Who knows.

Does anybody know if doctors sign death certificates for a miscarriage? Or still-birth?? (I'd think one would have been if the baby died shortly after birth).  If so, I would think it would be possible to come up with a record of this happening, if in fact it did. 

Maybe Casey miscarried at home and that is why Fire/Rescue was called in February 2004.

Wasn't Casey supposed to graduate in May of 2004?  And now we know she did graduate later.  I do not think death certificates are issued for miscarriages or stillbirths before 23 weeks.  But I could be wrong.

Lisa

I didn't know Casey graduated.  I was basing my information regarding stillbirths on my personal experience, which was past the 23 weeks.

I'm so sorry.

Lisa

[txlisa]

In the first doc released the other day it states Caylee's death occured at the Hopespring address, I wonder if they have info that we are not privy to, that supports this, otherwise I would have no idea why that was stated. I would certainly think they would not just guess where the death occured.

I do remember reading in one of Rick's letters to Cindy, that a neighbor told police that they heard someone in the pool in the afternoon on Jun.16.  I don't know where Rick got that information.

Lisa

[monkeymike]

Murt just announced his engagement!  She is on his video now.

http://murtwitnessone.webs.com/

Oh boy! does her name begin with an L  

Konnichi wa Mags San

Watakushi mo so omotte masu.

 

Janet

Hi everyone. Who's Murt marrying? I tried the link and no one will answer anything about it? Caught the tale end of someone saying they wouldn't watch him again since his first wife passed away in Jan. 2008.

[Tamikosmom]

I do not believe there was an odor being emitted from the inside of the trunk of Casey Anthony's vehicle until after the "gas can" encounter between George and Casey on August 24th.

++++++

The blanks regarding who, when, why and where need to be filled in but ... sticking with Ockham's Razor ...

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.

+++++++++


June 16:  After she meets her demise ... Caylee is put in a plastic bag/container placed inside the trunk of Casey's vehicle.

June 18th:  Prior to the producing of any body decomposition fluids or odor ... Caylee is taken from inside the trunk and ... buried in the backyard using a borrowed shovel.

June 24th:  Casey confides in her father and ... Caylee is retrieved from the backyard and ... placed inside the trunk where body decomposition fluid leaks and permenates the carpet.

June 24th - 27th:  Prior to Casey's vehicle being abondoned at Amscot .. Caylee's remains are transported to another location.

June 25th:  Casey relates to Amy that there is an odor inside her vehicle.

Janet

_______


Crime Expert Analyzes Casey Anthony Case, Evidence
POSTED: 4:04 pm EDT July 23, 2008
UPDATED: 4:17 pm EDT July 23, 2008

The Anthony's Backyard: Involved a tip that Casey Anthony borrowed a shovel from a neighbor. Two cadaver dogs pointed to the smell of decomposition near Caylee's playhouse.

Casey Anthony's Car: Detectives reported a different dog alerted to the same strong smell in the trunk after the white Pontiac had been abandoned in a parking lot

http://www.wftv.com/news/16968013/detail.html


George Anthony Set To Testify Against Casey In Front Of Grand Jury
POSTED: 6:11 am EDT October 10, 2008
UPDATED: 1:58 pm EDT October 13, 2008

Sources told Eyewitness News the Orange County grand jury will hear about high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car. The panel will hear how lab tests on the hair and the stain in the trunk will show that Caylee's body was in that trunk and that investigators also believe the little girl's body was at some point in the Anthony's backyard near her playhouse.

The focus on when Caylee was murdered is on the afternoon of June 16, sometime between mid-day, when Caylee's grandfather last saw her alive with Casey, and the evening, when Casey went to her boyfriend's apartment without Caylee.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17684992/detail.html


Cell Phone Pings Help Track Casey Anthony's Movements Over 3 Days
Caylee Anthony Last Seen In June
POSTED: 1:06 pm EST November 3, 2008
UPDATED: 3:57 pm EST November 3, 2008

On Wednesday, June 18, the day Casey's parents' neighbor said Anthony borrowed a shovel and backed her car into the garage, cell phone pings show that Anthony was at or near her parents' home from 2:30 p.m. until 3:30 p.m., Pipitone said.

http://www.local6.com/news/17874799/detail.html

But what about all of the trunk evidence indicating early decomp?Early decomp within 2.6 days? 

I do not believe that once decomposition had set in ...  Caylee's Marie's remains were inside the trunk of Casey's vehicle for longer than 3 days.

Janet
_____

As per my theory above:

I do not believe there was an odor being emitted from the inside of the trunk of Casey Anthony's vehicle until after the "gas can" encounter between George and Casey on August 24th.

June 24th - 27th:  Prior to Casey's vehicle being abondoned at Amscot .. Caylee's remains are transported to another location.

Read the forensic results from the FBI and Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee regarding Casey Anthony's trunk and other parts of her car.

Page 27

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-documents-102408,0,5346622.htmlpage

[mammy]

In the first doc released the other day it states Caylee's death occured at the Hopespring address, I wonder if they have info that we are not privy to, that supports this, otherwise I would have no idea why that was stated. I would certainly think they would not just guess where the death occured.

They may be basing that on the hit the dogs hit in the backyard along with the time line.
I wish they would give us the answers.     

[TxLady2]

I stated quite some time ago that I read on a blog that Casey had a son that was given up for adoption priot to Caylee.  I could never verify the information.  It sounds like that is coming closer to being true.   

Hello  Mammy.   hope you and your family had a nice Thanksgiving.......Yes, I am also curious to see if there could be some truth to this fact....I wouldnt doubt it at all, This has been the wierdest family I think I can ever recall reading about.....They need alot more help than what Dr. phil could ever offer imo.......

We had a very nice Thanksgiving.  How was yours?

Just when you think you've maybe figured the A's out, something else pops up!  They make me shake my head a lot.

I had a very nice one also!   I do believe that it is very possible that Caylee was not Casey's only child, which would be a reason for her to be scared to tell Cindy about being pregnant AGAIN.....if thats the case.....almost like she didnt learn anything from her first time.........I think  these people brought alot of this on theirselves!!!!!

If you could view Caylee's birth certificate, you might find the answer there. Not sure if it's done in all states, but here, there is a little box somewhere in the middle that reads something like "previous births of this mother" where the dr. can put the number of other times the mother has given birth before this one, if I am not mistaken. Could be just on the hospital-issued b/c, but I think it is on my official b/c as well as on my boys'.
Would be nice to see Casey's medical records too, because any doctor would be able to determine if she had ever been pregnant or given birth before and that is almost always included in exam records.

[mammy]

In the first doc released the other day it states Caylee's death occured at the Hopespring address, I wonder if they have info that we are not privy to, that supports this, otherwise I would have no idea why that was stated. I would certainly think they would not just guess where the death occured.

*CORRECTION*

They may be basing that on when the dogs hit in the backyard along with the time line.
I wish they would give us the answers.     

[mammy]

I stated quite some time ago that I read on a blog that Casey had a son that was given up for adoption priot to Caylee.  I could never verify the information.  It sounds like that is coming closer to being true.   

Hello  Mammy.   hope you and your family had a nice Thanksgiving.......Yes, I am also curious to see if there could be some truth to this fact....I wouldnt doubt it at all, This has been the wierdest family I think I can ever recall reading about.....They need alot more help than what Dr. phil could ever offer imo.......

We had a very nice Thanksgiving.  How was yours?

Just when you think you've maybe figured the A's out, something else pops up!  They make me shake my head a lot.

I had a very nice one also!   I do believe that it is very possible that Caylee was not Casey's only child, which would be a reason for her to be scared to tell Cindy about being pregnant AGAIN.....if thats the case.....almost like she didnt learn anything from her first time.........I think  these people brought alot of this on theirselves!!!!!

If you could view Caylee's birth certificate, you might find the answer there. Not sure if it's done in all states, but here, there is a little box somewhere in the middle that reads something like "previous births of this mother" where the dr. can put the number of other times the mother has given birth before this one, if I am not mistaken. Could be just on the hospital-issued b/c, but I think it is on my official b/c as well as on my boys'.
Would be nice to see Casey's medical records too, because any doctor would be able to determine if she had ever been pregnant or given birth before and that is almost always included in exam records.

There was a birth certificate released (maybe Janet has it), but it was basic with only the dob, etc.

[no rose colored glasses]

In the first doc released the other day it states Caylee's death occured at the Hopespring address, I wonder if they have info that we are not privy to, that supports this, otherwise I would have no idea why that was stated. I would certainly think they would not just guess where the death occured.

I do remember reading in one of Rick's letters to Cindy, that a neighbor told police that they heard someone in the pool in the afternoon on Jun.16.  I don't know where Rick got that information.

Lisa

I wondered where he got that info also. I can't recall Cindy's response, but I think she asked Rick where he got the info from.

[no rose colored glasses]

In the first doc released the other day it states Caylee's death occured at the Hopespring address, I wonder if they have info that we are not privy to, that supports this, otherwise I would have no idea why that was stated. I would certainly think they would not just guess where the death occured.

They may be basing that on the hit the dogs hit in the backyard along with the time line.
I wish they would give us the answers.     

That and according to Rick a neighbor heard someone in the pool on June 16th. The more I try to figure things out, the more confused I'm getting.

[TxLady2]

Doesn't anybody else think it's more likely that something tragic happened to Casey's boy? Not adoption? Why would her grandmother (Shirley) write to Cindy about how tragic it was, and how she felt as sad about it as she would if it were her own child, if this was an adoption? Yeah, you'd probably be sad not to have that child in your life, but her words seem a bit too dramatic for that, IMO.  Plus.. why would Casey have the sono pic of a child she gave away? Why remind yourself of something like that? It's more likely IMO that this child died.

Assuming there was in fact another child...

I doubt if Casey kept the sonogram of the male child, Cindy did.

And if that's the case, I would think it's more likely she would have kept it if the child had died, and not if it were given up for adoption.

If there was an adoption, I'm sure it was Casey's decision, not Cindy's.  Cindy would have been very upset, but Casey could have cared less, IMO.

I'm sure you're right about that.. she wouldn't have cared less. The point I'm making is this. We supposedly have 2 sonogram pics.. somebody said there was a blue ribbon on one, a pink on the other..  or something to that effect.  This means we're talking about either Lee and Casey, or two of Casey's children.  If one of these children was given away for adoption - and especially if Casey didn't even want the child - there wouldn't be any logical reason to keep this child's sonogram picture out for the world to see.  Not only would it be a reminder to everybody how Casey screwed up and couldn't take care of a kid, but how do you explain that to people who come over and see it?   As well, it's a painful reminder that your daughter (thinking of Cindy here) ripped your grandchild away from you.  We know Cindy was more than willing to take care of Caylee, so why not this other child? Because more than likely, it died prematurely.. miscarriage, still-birth, etc.  Even if Casey didn't think it was all that tragic, I'm sure Cindy would have-  Cindy's mom certainly would have. Perhaps Cindy kept the sono pic out for her own reasons... perhaps Casey felt like she needed to keep it out to make people "happy".  Who knows.

Does anybody know if doctors sign death certificates for a miscarriage? Or still-birth?? (I'd think one would have been if the baby died shortly after birth).  If so, I would think it would be possible to come up with a record of this happening, if in fact it did. 

Dr's will only sign a birth certificate for a stillbirth occuring after 23 weeks, I think.  I know some asked if those sonogram pics could be Lee's or Casey's.  I'm not sure when sonograms first came about, but I don't think it was 1982 (Lee's year of birth.)

Lisa

Could be but my youngest was born in 1985 and they were doing sonograms then, and had been for a while, I think.

[TxLady2]

I stated quite some time ago that I read on a blog that Casey had a son that was given up for adoption priot to Caylee.  I could never verify the information.  It sounds like that is coming closer to being true.   

Hello  Mammy.   hope you and your family had a nice Thanksgiving.......Yes, I am also curious to see if there could be some truth to this fact....I wouldnt doubt it at all, This has been the wierdest family I think I can ever recall reading about.....They need alot more help than what Dr. phil could ever offer imo.......

We had a very nice Thanksgiving.  How was yours?

Just when you think you've maybe figured the A's out, something else pops up!  They make me shake my head a lot.

I had a very nice one also!   I do believe that it is very possible that Caylee was not Casey's only child, which would be a reason for her to be scared to tell Cindy about being pregnant AGAIN.....if thats the case.....almost like she didnt learn anything from her first time.........I think  these people brought alot of this on theirselves!!!!!

If you could view Caylee's birth certificate, you might find the answer there. Not sure if it's done in all states, but here, there is a little box somewhere in the middle that reads something like "previous births of this mother" where the dr. can put the number of other times the mother has given birth before this one, if I am not mistaken. Could be just on the hospital-issued b/c, but I think it is on my official b/c as well as on my boys'.
Would be nice to see Casey's medical records too, because any doctor would be able to determine if she had ever been pregnant or given birth before and that is almost always included in exam records.

There was a birth certificate released (maybe Janet has it), but it was basic with only the dob, etc.

Why would Janet have Caylee's birth certificate?
I'm talking about a state-issued b/c...  not just the b/c the hospital gives you. The state of Texas has a very official one, with all this information on it that I mentioned, typed in, not handwritten. I assumed every other state has them too.