Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #66

[cubbeegirl]

All this drug talk started when a poster said Casey was probably putting (her money) up her nose or shooting it up in her arm or her stomach .. my point was that if she had a habit to the point of "snorting" or "shooting up" she would most likely need help in some form to stop ... most people don't just stop shooting up cold turkey ... some can, yes. 

I think we would have heard from her friends or LE would have leaked "something" to the fact that Casey was that heavily into drugs had that been the case ...

I agree... I think we would have hard something, but I do not think she was shooting up, snorting, maybe, alot of opiate users crush up their pills and snort them to get a rush and a quicker more intense buzz... caught my ex doing it in my very own bathroom.
IF Casey had a drug problem, I do not think she was into it that deep yet to be shooting up...
Sorry for this discussion, but I have lived a nightmare with this stuff and learned WAY too much about it...thing I did not want to have to know...

[invision]

All this drug talk started when a poster said Casey was probably putting (her money) up her nose or shooting it up in her arm or her stomach .. my point was that if she had a habit to the point of "snorting" or "shooting up" she would most likely need help in some form to stop ... most people don't just stop shooting up cold turkey ... some can, yes. 

I think we would have heard from her friends or LE would have leaked "something" to the fact that Casey was that heavily into drugs had that been the case ...

I agree... I think we would have hard something, but I do not think she was shooting up, snorting, maybe, alot of opiate users crush up their pills and snort them to get a rush and a quicker more intense buzz... caught my ex doing it in my very own bathroom.
IF Casey had a drug problem, I do not think she was into it that deep yet to be shooting up...
Sorry for this discussion, but I have lived a nightmare with this stuff and learned WAY too much about it...thing I did not want to have to know...

I can tell you that high school kids crush it and put it in the creases of the pages of their school books and snort it in class ... and it is so accessable to kids that it is insane!

[cubbeegirl]

All this drug talk started when a poster said Casey was probably putting (her money) up her nose or shooting it up in her arm or her stomach .. my point was that if she had a habit to the point of "snorting" or "shooting up" she would most likely need help in some form to stop ... most people don't just stop shooting up cold turkey ... some can, yes. 

I think we would have heard from her friends or LE would have leaked "something" to the fact that Casey was that heavily into drugs had that been the case ...

I agree... I think we would have hard something, but I do not think she was shooting up, snorting, maybe, alot of opiate users crush up their pills and snort them to get a rush and a quicker more intense buzz... caught my ex doing it in my very own bathroom.
IF Casey had a drug problem, I do not think she was into it that deep yet to be shooting up...
Sorry for this discussion, but I have lived a nightmare with this stuff and learned WAY too much about it...thing I did not want to have to know...

I can tell you that high school kids crush it and put it in the creases of the pages of their school books and snort it in class ... and it is so accessable to kids that it is insane!

Yes, my son says it is so readily available it is pathetic. I asked him where they get it..he said their parents medicine cabinets. Thankfully, so far, he has seen so much damage this causes to peoples lives, he thinks they are all losers. Hopefully he will stay with that mind set...
The first day of public school... 7th grade he came home and told me that kids were snorting pills in the bathroom... YIKES!

[invision]

All this drug talk started when a poster said Casey was probably putting (her money) up her nose or shooting it up in her arm or her stomach .. my point was that if she had a habit to the point of "snorting" or "shooting up" she would most likely need help in some form to stop ... most people don't just stop shooting up cold turkey ... some can, yes. 

I think we would have heard from her friends or LE would have leaked "something" to the fact that Casey was that heavily into drugs had that been the case ...

I agree... I think we would have hard something, but I do not think she was shooting up, snorting, maybe, alot of opiate users crush up their pills and snort them to get a rush and a quicker more intense buzz... caught my ex doing it in my very own bathroom.
IF Casey had a drug problem, I do not think she was into it that deep yet to be shooting up...
Sorry for this discussion, but I have lived a nightmare with this stuff and learned WAY too much about it...thing I did not want to have to know...

I can tell you that high school kids crush it and put it in the creases of the pages of their school books and snort it in class ... and it is so accessable to kids that it is insane!

Yes, my son says it is so readily available it is pathetic. I asked him where they get it..he said their parents medicine cabinets. Thankfully, so far, he has seen so much damage this causes to peoples lives, he thinks they are all losers. Hopefully he will stay with that mind set...
The first day of public school... 7th grade he came home and told me that kids were snorting pills in the bathroom... YIKES!

It is the devil .. school administrators have trouble guarding against it as well as even catching a student with it ... there is no smell .. no need for drug sniffing dogs to rat out the potential problem ... Parents have a hard time telling if their child popped a pill that someone gave them .. It's the devil .. plain and simple!

[invision]

Niterzzz Cubbee .. I'ma try again to get some sleep ... wish me luck!

[Fuzzball]

Doesn't anybody else think it's more likely that something tragic happened to Casey's boy? Not adoption? Why would her grandmother (Shirley) write to Cindy about how tragic it was, and how she felt as sad about it as she would if it were her own child, if this was an adoption? Yeah, you'd probably be sad not to have that child in your life, but her words seem a bit too dramatic for that, IMO.  Plus.. why would Casey have the sono pic of a child she gave away? Why remind yourself of something like that? It's more likely IMO that this child died.

Assuming there was in fact another child...

I doubt if Casey kept the sonogram of the male child, Cindy did.

And if that's the case, I would think it's more likely she would have kept it if the child had died, and not if it were given up for adoption.

If there was an adoption, I'm sure it was Casey's decision, not Cindy's.  Cindy would have been very upset, but Casey could have cared less, IMO.

I'm sure you're right about that.. she wouldn't have cared less. The point I'm making is this. We supposedly have 2 sonogram pics.. somebody said there was a blue ribbon on one, a pink on the other..  or something to that effect.  This means we're talking about either Lee and Casey, or two of Casey's children.  If one of these children was given away for adoption - and especially if Casey didn't even want the child - there wouldn't be any logical reason to keep this child's sonogram picture out for the world to see.  Not only would it be a reminder to everybody how Casey screwed up and couldn't take care of a kid, but how do you explain that to people who come over and see it?   As well, it's a painful reminder that your daughter (thinking of Cindy here) ripped your grandchild away from you.  We know Cindy was more than willing to take care of Caylee, so why not this other child? Because more than likely, it died prematurely.. miscarriage, still-birth, etc.  Even if Casey didn't think it was all that tragic, I'm sure Cindy would have-  Cindy's mom certainly would have. Perhaps Cindy kept the sono pic out for her own reasons... perhaps Casey felt like she needed to keep it out to make people "happy".  Who knows.

Does anybody know if doctors sign death certificates for a miscarriage? Or still-birth?? (I'd think one would have been if the baby died shortly after birth).  If so, I would think it would be possible to come up with a record of this happening, if in fact it did. 

Maybe Casey miscarried at home and that is why Fire/Rescue was called in February 2004.

Would Fire/Rescue be called for a suicide attempt.  CA, when asked by the FBI about KC's mental health, seemed deceptive in her answer, as I recall...well, more deceptive than usual that is.  I'll have to rewatch when time permits, but was just wondering about others thoughts in that regard.

That's the only think I could think of that they'd be called for--some kind of overdose or suicide attempt. But I assumed from the things that have been said that it would be Cindy who made the attempt.  I don't think Casey ever feels bad enough about herself that she'd be suicidal.

[eternal0void]

It's sad, but drugs are easy to obtain.  My doctor would order me anything I want.  I have to stop him all the time.  I want my bp and stomach pills, that's all.

Personally I wish doctors would stop over-prescribing the "un-Controlled Substances", like unnecessary antibiotics for obvious viral infections like colds and the flu (which in the long run may cause worse problems than anything perpetrated by the drug war), but I suspect that some doctors' habits of prescribing anything their patients ask for is an act of survival: if they don't give a patient everything he wants, he may leave for another doctor and take his insurance money with him.

[eternal0void]

Christmas colors are red and green ... the tree must not be fake ... milk and cookies are left for Santa by the fireplace along with a carrot for Rudolf ... one gift can be opened Christmas Eve ... Turkey must be served for Dinner and ... everybody has to have at least one brussel sprout.

I am sure all the above commandments regarding Christmas are written somewhere in some obscure book of the Bible soooo ... Tamikosmom is not taking any chances.

Regarding the "non-fake tree", even if you have to get pretty close to the tiny XMas tree in "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown", its still a real tree.

[eternal0void]

I see but how is decomp leaking thru to the trunk if she put Caylee's body in a container to begin with?

Many high-quality ice chests have spigots at the bottom, which are helpful for emptying out the water when the ice in them has melted, and for using the entire ice chest as a drinks dispenser.

Unless she thoroughly washed the corpse with hazmat-style decontamination procedures, shutting the corpse in just such an ice chest would have locked it in with all the oxygen and bacteria needed to speed up decomposition, and a leaky spigot would have allowed a little of the decomp out of the ice chest and onto the floor of the trunk.

Welcome Eternal - you are exactly right. 

Trying to catch up..

I have one of these and took a quick look at it...there would have to be a lot of fluid for it to reach the spigot opening..1/2" +/- ..could there have been that much in the time frame allowed ? (assuming KC or other was trying to hold it level)

Also..could something like that be collapsable? a blue collapsable container was discussed a while back..I was trying to find a collapsable cooler, maybe for camping, but haven't found one with a spigot...good explanation for decomp stain tho..

and Welcome to the Cage !

The amount of fluid doesn't necessarily have to be large, as the container was stored for a period of time inside the trunk of a moving car.  Any fluid inside the container would be shaken back and forth (and possibly up and down), coating the sides of the container and (if it was an ice chest) reaching the spigot.

For a home experiment, take a tablespoon of oil and put it inside a shoebox, then vigorously shake the shoebox from side to side.  I can almost guarantee some of the oil will reach higher on the sides of the box than it would if the box just sat still for a few hours.

There's also another detail with an ice chest with a leaky spigot: most people typically don't lift both sides of an ice chest at once to get it out of a car, they lift one end up, tilting any liquid in the ice chest towards the leaky spigot.

Collapsable coolers don't need a spigot to do the kind of stains mentioned inside the Casey Anthony car.  They are typically made out of fabric, which means lots of little stitch-holes, and most leak through these stitch-holes (the whole point of collapsable coolers is that they are collapsable, not that they are waterproof).  I've got one and I have to watch its use indoors as any melted ice water will leak out and soak the carpet underneath it.  The manufacturers seem to assume you're using some form of self-contained "blue ice" rather than actual ice.

[Fuzzball]

Christmas colors are red and green ... the tree must not be fake ... milk and cookies are left for Santa by the fireplace along with a carrot for Rudolf ... one gift can be opened Christmas Eve ... Turkey must be served for Dinner and ... everybody has to have at least one brussel sprout.

I am sure all the above commandments regarding Christmas are written somewhere in some obscure book of the Bible soooo ... Tamikosmom is not taking any chances.

Yes, these are the REAL rules of Christmas. My Mom would have agreed too.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Another point I'd like to add...the Anthony's initially settled in on the last date they saw Caylee was June 9.  Let's take an informal poll...if someone asked you about an event that happened 30 days ago...would you give them a date (as in the 9th of the Month) or would you tie that event to another known event (Father's Day)?....I personally couldn't give the date - but I could remember that something happened on, for instance, a holiday..a fews days after a holiday, etc.  What do you all think?

I would have connected an event with a holiday and Father's day is a holiday....except in the Anthony household.
That was kinda strange how they all zoomed in on June 9th.....the wrong date.You would think at least Cindy and George would remember the last day/date they saw their own Grand Daughter,especially since the 15th was the last day they saw her alive.

[Fuzzball]

I see but how is decomp leaking thru to the trunk if she put Caylee's body in a container to begin with?

Many high-quality ice chests have spigots at the bottom, which are helpful for emptying out the water when the ice in them has melted, and for using the entire ice chest as a drinks dispenser.

Unless she thoroughly washed the corpse with hazmat-style decontamination procedures, shutting the corpse in just such an ice chest would have locked it in with all the oxygen and bacteria needed to speed up decomposition, and a leaky spigot would have allowed a little of the decomp out of the ice chest and onto the floor of the trunk.

Welcome Eternal - you are exactly right. 

Trying to catch up..

I have one of these and took a quick look at it...there would have to be a lot of fluid for it to reach the spigot opening..1/2" +/- ..could there have been that much in the time frame allowed ? (assuming KC or other was trying to hold it level)

Also..could something like that be collapsable? a blue collapsable container was discussed a while back..I was trying to find a collapsable cooler, maybe for camping, but haven't found one with a spigot...good explanation for decomp stain tho..

and Welcome to the Cage !

The amount of fluid doesn't necessarily have to be large, as the container was stored for a period of time inside the trunk of a moving car.  Any fluid inside the container would be shaken back and forth (and possibly up and down), coating the sides of the container and (if it was an ice chest) reaching the spigot.

For a home experiment, take a tablespoon of oil and put it inside a shoebox, then vigorously shake the shoebox from side to side.  I can almost guarantee some of the oil will reach higher on the sides of the box than it would if the box just sat still for a few hours.

There's also another detail with an ice chest with a leaky spigot: most people typically don't lift both sides of an ice chest at once to get it out of a car, they lift one end up, tilting any liquid in the ice chest towards the leaky spigot.

Collapsable coolers don't need a spigot to do the kind of stains mentioned inside the Casey Anthony car.  They are typically made out of fabric, which means lots of little stitch-holes, and most leak through these stitch-holes (the whole point of collapsable coolers is that they are collapsable, not that they are waterproof).  I've got one and I have to watch its use indoors as any melted ice water will leak out and soak the carpet underneath it.  The manufacturers seem to assume you're using some form of self-contained "blue ice" rather than actual ice.

I'd like to add that according to LP, (who knows about such things,) there would have been quite a bit of fluid. 30 lbs of stew in a bag, was how he described the likely scenario. I think if she were just in a bag that got punctured we'd have a much bigger stain. I've been picturing an ice chest from the start, because of the way Cindy pointed out that theirs was in the garage. It just seemed a weird thing to point out under the circumstances.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I see but how is decomp leaking thru to the trunk if she put Caylee's body in a container to begin with?

Many high-quality ice chests have spigots at the bottom, which are helpful for emptying out the water when the ice in them has melted, and for using the entire ice chest as a drinks dispenser.

Unless she thoroughly washed the corpse with hazmat-style decontamination procedures, shutting the corpse in just such an ice chest would have locked it in with all the oxygen and bacteria needed to speed up decomposition, and a leaky spigot would have allowed a little of the decomp out of the ice chest and onto the floor of the trunk.

That is very possible Eternal and welcome to the cage.

[Today]

Good Morning
Please send coffee

[eternal0void]

I do have experience with young adults w/addictions .. as a former worker for Children and Youth, also worked for Office of Mental Health and Substance Abuse .. While most drugs can be withdrawn from w/only "side effects" ... yucky ones at that ... I can attest to the fact that withdraw from some drugs are indeed fatal if not weened off the drug under medical care ... such as opiates ... oxycodone, etc.  Health care professionals in particular suggests the drug suboxone to ween an individual from this particular drug.  Cold turkey is just not a way to go to get off of an opiate based drug ...

Opiate Detox and Addiction
Opiate addiction is recognized as a central nervous system disorder, caused by continuous opiate intake.1 Extended opiate use leads to the nerve cells in the brain to stop functioning as they normally would and stop producing natural endorphins.

I am pretty sure if Casey had a "habit" to where she was previously snorting a drug up her nose, or shooting it in her arm, we would have heard something about it by now.  But then again, I could be wrong. 

If her opiate use was recent and short, and thus not "extended", withdrawal from occasional opiate use isn't all that terrible, and could be accomplished "cold turkey" in a jail cell with the odd OTC painkiller.

Also, cutting yourself (people who do this being referred to as "cutters") is a way to release natural endorphins from your brain.  If she did this as a way to ease withdrawal from occasional opiate use, we wouldn't have heard anything about a mild opiate habit, and there are many hidden areas of the body where closet cutters cut themselves.

In any case, her lawyer, who seems to be infatuated with Miss Anthony, may simply be delivering her fixes in his frequent "hugging", preventing the need for a detox at all.

[Today]

Internet is a trove of trivia about Casey Anthony case

What are people posting?

Here's a sample of what people are putting online about Anthony:

*A video called The Caylee Casey Anthony Case & Caylee's Song on YouTube has been viewed more than 10,000 times. The seven-minute video includes photos, 911 calls, media interviews and a song.

*A rambling, four-minute commentary -- hot topic: casey anthony -- by a young woman with pink, blue and black hair was viewed more than 11,000 times on YouTube. Her recap includes a brief impersonation of CNN's Nancy Grace.

*A different video puts images of Anthony, her family and defense attorney on top of characters from The Addams Family.

[trimmonthelake]

Good Morning Monkeys. Gotta read back a few pages and get caught up. 

Thanks Brandi,for finding my sparkle!   

[anothermonkey]

Morning everybody.  I'm pulling up a chair with my first cup of coffee.... 

[perriwinkle]

Good morning everyone!  Hopefully you all had a great Thanksgiving.   IT is always nice to be back home after extended time with family!   

[eternal0void]

BTW.... I am told that the withdrawals from opiates is like a VERY bad case of the flu for a couple of days and then the rest is mental...

I KNOW FOR A FACT that withdrawl from opiates is NOT MENTAL ... and that is all I am going to say about that ... I am sure there are plenty of health care professionals, psychiatrists and medical doctors will disagree with you also ... I know some personally!  Have you sat in meetings with them?  I have ... You need a psychiatrists recommendation along with a medicals doctors prescription to obtain withdrawl meds ... at least in the state of PA .. If it was all mental .. why would you need these?

I'd like to point out something mammy said a few pages back:

It's sad, but drugs are easy to obtain.  My doctor would order me anything I want.  I have to stop him all the time.  I want my bp and stomach pills, that's all.

Doctors these days are crazy about spending your insurance money (or the state's medical assistance money) so that they can make bigger profits.

Here's a better translation of your comment: "I am sure there are plenty of health care professionals, psychiatrists and medical doctors {who make tons of money off consultations and pharmaceutical industry kickbacks if they say that withdrawal medications are necessary, rather than just optional} will disagree with you also ... I know some personally!  Have you sat in meetings with them?  I have ... You need a psychiatrists recommendation {for which he gets a big fat check} along with a medicals doctors prescription {for which he gets a big fat check} to obtain withdrawl meds {from a pharmacist and a pharmaceutical corporation which both "scratch the back" of the doctor who wrote the prescription, and his hospital's governing board (if any)}".

The Medical Industry (regardless of the country) shouldn't be a for-profit industry, because you can never tell if what they are telling you that you "need" is a procedure/treatment which you need, or which will mostly make them a bigger paycheck.