Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08

[Nut44x4]

<a href="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Natalee2.swf" target="_blank">http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Natalee2.swf</a>

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

[2NJSons_Mom]

   Big map...Whiskey Girl....thanks.

[MumInOhio]

Anna...I didn't take it too seriously...saved it because I have been following Carlos severino Tromp...and I liked the Merian connections...fake diplomas.

added start date for new thread subject.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Nut, I just saw your post on the last thread.....I called the lock on page 49...so sorry.   

[MumInOhio]

OK...I have work to do...

Hi Caps…I have questions…LOL

Is the gag order still on Poentje and Patrick from the Telearuba show?

Was that because of the pond statement by Patrick?

Was that why the Thursday show was cancelled?

How long was Patrick on Aruba, do you know...Kyle said "WE met with Patrick"...Pretty sure he didn't mean Tim...working on a time-line.

Is Brenda Bouwman from Holiday Inn Fame and Amigoe related to the Martin Bouwman guy who lives with Luis Ramirez?

Next Move?...from your post?

Thanks In Advance as Always…

[WhiskeyGirl]

I'll bring this over...

DON'T MISS THURSDAY NIGHTS DANA PRETZER SHOW with GUEST JOE TACOPINA    

That's interesting. Just my opinion, but if Tacky is willing to speak with Dana, then Tacky ain't happy at the way things are going. Between him calling Joran sociopathic, and Paulus a simpleton, and him doing Dana, I think the glue holding his hair in place is melting. Worry will do that to you.

Something's clicked in his head, IMO.

Maybe that clicking...

I remember reading Joe T. saying something to the effect that he "defends the evidence"...and "There is no evidence."  Maybe Joran is producing more evidence?  Maybe Joran is getting to close to the truth?

[BUCKSHOT]

FROM KERMIT (LAST FEW POSTS)

on: December 02, 2008, 11:13:54 PM  
Quote from: wreck on December 02, 2008, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: Blue Moon of KY on December 02, 2008, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”


Kermit, did the crew of Persistence NOT retrieve anything from that cage before the aruban divers came in?  If not WHY?


Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."
Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"
Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"
Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"
Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

Wow! Again - did Kyle tell this to you personally??

all part of the investigation.

___________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:12:23 PM  

Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

APRIL 20, 2007, Superior Offshore and Company insiders sold over 10 million shares of common stock to the public, raising gross proceeds in excess of $152 million

LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST SUPERIOR OFFSHORE INTERNATIONAL – LOUIS E. SCHAEFER.  for violation of the federal securities laws.
The lawsuit states that the Defendants in the case, Louis Schaefer being the CEO of the Offshore company provided false and misleading registration statements where he sold or disposed of millions of shares of the Superior Offshore stock for proceeds of 25.87 million.

Louis Schaefer resigned from the company Nov. 15, 2007
Schaefer sold or otherwise disposed of over 1.725 million shares of his Superior Offshore stock for proceeds of $25.87 million in the.


Case 6:08-cv-00400 Lawsuit: Violation of §11 of the 1933 Act
Against Defendants Superior Offshore, Schaefer, Mermis,
Burks, Koch and the Underwriter Defendants
7,270,930.00
* Sold through Schaefer Holdings LLP.
THE MATERIALLY FALSE AND MISLEADING
REGISTRATION STATEMENTS AND PROSPECTUS
APRIL 24 OF ALL OF THE OFFICERS RESIGNED
APRIL 25 THEY ANNOUNCED FILING A CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY

July 4th weekend Kyle went to John Silvetti's home.
Then Kyle was off to Norway on the Ormage Project.
Then the "Dutch Agent" sent him to Egypt.

If you do some research you find a lot on John Silvetti's businessess and merge with the Dutch

_________________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:02:28 PM  
Quote from: Bladerunner on December 02, 2008, 10:59:45 PM
Quote from: wreck on December 02, 2008, 10:53:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

You see -- I thought OE was being forthright and well intentioned during that time (January) -- what happened to him by February???


Greed.


Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

THEN

Kyle tried to "strike a deal" with producers.

The opening song for The Apprentice: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!

____________________________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:00:21 PM  
Quote from: Blue Moon of KY on December 02, 2008, 10:43:31 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:39:52 PM

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”


I am so confused. She was in the ocean, she was in a pond, she was in a cemetery, and now she has been sold into slavery.  How would anyone know what is the truth at this point?




Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”


Caps: emailed Dave her body was in the cemetery
        Dave told Caps, we have searched the cemetery
        Caps said she is in MOKO
        Caps said she is in Montajan
        Caps said she is in the cemetery
        Caps said she is cut up and spread around the island


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."


Kermit says: "A picture is worth a thousand words!"
 

[BUCKSHOT]

POST (FROM CLW)
« Reply #931 on: Today at 12:19:56 AM »

Kermit: why are you stir the monkey cage by lying....I never siad the Moko nor Montanja but the Monserat pond.

If it was the Moko or the Montanja or the Soledad pond, he would have walk straigth home. and we would have not even know where he was since he would have been home and no one would have seen him.

The cemetary is a plausable senario...but after more research that plousable scenario is still under investigation and to make that plausable, we have the search and all the logisctics to make it happend, but that require a lot of more inividual involved.

on the issue of chop up and spread all over, that part of the result of several research.

here is what has happend.

1. I do my own research with more capable individuals here in aruba that are part of the local daily night scene in Aruba.
2. it was the Maty apartment used that night.
3. some part of desposal was in several location in Aruba. The Pond was where he burried the last part of the body.
4. After all that blood, he washed off in the pond.
5. from there he took the service road running towards McDonnald.
6. was saw by an withness.
7. withness went to OM and give his statement.
8. OM give instruction to clean up the Pond but, the Santarosa group did not clean it up, since the ground was still muddy and it was posponed but then the rain came and is now full to the brim. Got new pictures.
9. the pond is now offlimited by a chain across the drive way entrance.

10. spoke to Selvetty and asked a lot of question...
11, on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial.


Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

Other thing, I know the next move of the water Search team......

The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near.

CAPS

[BUCKSHOT]

Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?

[Frank]

Why would Tacopina want to talk with Dana after the fluff interview he did with Steve Cohen?

"he's a sweet kid" "everywhere he goes, people come up to him and hug him"

Or maybe Joe will say he's "sick" but will Dana ask when did he get "sick?"

How about the Chicago Yenta that Tacopina produced who was "flashed" on that very beach?

But the real question is will Dana ask Joe who has paid him? He once said "friends of Paulus"

Or they may just complain about Greta again.

[SS]

Quote from Caps:

Kermit: why are you stir the monkey cage by lying....I never siad the Moko nor Montanja but the Monserat pond.

If it was the Moko or the Montanja or the Soledad pond, he would have walk straigth home. and we would have not even know where he was since he would have been home and no one would have seen him.

The cemetary is a plausable senario...but after more research that plousable scenario is still under investigation and to make that plausable, we have the search and all the logisctics to make it happend, but that require a lot of more inividual involved.

on the issue of chop up and spread all over, that part of the result of several research.

here is what has happend.

1. I do my own research with more capable individuals here in aruba that are part of the local daily night scene in Aruba.
2. it was the Maty apartment used that night.
3. some part of desposal was in several location in Aruba. The Pond was where he burried the last part of the body.
4. After all that blood, he washed off in the pond.
5. from there he took the service road running towards McDonnald.
6. was saw by an withness.
7. withness went to OM and give his statement.
8. OM give instruction to clean up the Pond but, the Santarosa group did not clean it up, since the ground was still muddy and it was posponed but then the rain came and is now full to the brim. Got new pictures.
9. the pond is now offlimited by a chain across the drive way entrance.

10. spoke to Selvetty and asked a lot of question...
11, on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial.


Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

Other thing, I know the next move of the water Search team......

The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near.

CAPS

************

When we were working on Eerian Ernest/Simian we came up with Booshi Wever as the person with the fake diploma hanging in his office.  Wever is the Minister of Health.  He was also invovled in a large drug deal with Venezuela at one point, and he is reported to own whore houses in Aruba.



Caps -  Why do you think the cage is still there?  If Panter didn't tremove it on January 12th, what do you think they were doing there?  Was this cage connected to the Daury Rodriguiez arrests?  Are they still using the cage as a post office?
 
You mentioned that the cemetery is still plausible.  What needs to be done to start the investigation?  Did you finally narrow it down the the Masonic Cemetery?

Do you know what part of the body was in the pond?  Who has the items that were reportedly found in the pond?
 
 
 
 

[Magnolia]

Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?

And Caps initials post that goes with the Monkey and Monkey's Uncle.
"Me..J...W...and c's"
Me= Caps
J= John Silvetti
W= Witness
c= Clyde Burke

I think that is right...please correct if wrong.

[SS]

I have a question that I have been asking about the shoe.  If we can figure out the answer, we might be able to eliminate some misinformation.  Does anyone have a blow up of the shoe in the trap and a copy of the witness statement describing how Urine was walking?

The pond witness saw him walking without one shoe.  Did he specify if Urine was missing a right shoe or a left shoe?  Supposedly there was a bloody shoe in Urine's closet that Paulass could have disposed of several days later.  Can we determine if it's a right shoe or a left shoe in the cage?  This could possibly clear up all of these shoes, especially since there are reports that one of Urine's shoes was also found in Monserat pond.



Caps - if I recall, we spent a lot of time searching for the owner of the cage, but we never came up with anything.  Kyle had also suggested that only one person would own a fish trap that large.  Can you help us with the owner of the cage?

[MumInOhio]

Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?

And Caps initials post that goes with the Monkey and Monkey's Uncle.
"Me..J...W...and c's"
Me= Caps
J= John Silvetti
W= Witness
c= Clyde Burke

I think that is right...please correct if wrong.

C=Clyde Burke...Does "c's"=Cops?  Just wondering?

Which would be Caps' Uncle then?

[Magnolia]

Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?

And Caps initials post that goes with the Monkey and Monkey's Uncle.
"Me..J...W...and c's"
Me= Caps
J= John Silvetti
W= Witness
c= Clyde Burke

I think that is right...please correct if wrong.

C=Clyde Burke...Does "c's"=Cops?  Just wondering?

Which would be Caps' Uncle then?

I thought c=cops to begin, but I think it was determined that
c=Clyde Burke.
We are sure that Caps would be the monkey....maybe the witness
is the monkey.
It will be simple as 1 - 2 - 3 when we figure it out.

[BUCKSHOT]

just watched, again, joran's interview.
specifically where we first attempts to cut the interview short, but remains seated.

seems like the question as to when his attorney knew the supposed truth was an issue for him. sure, he had already outed his father. big deal. his father is already suspected to be involved.

his attorneys knowledge of the facts seemed to be an issue for him.

just food for thought...

[Blonde]

Name: Anita van der Sloot - Hugen
From The Netherlands
Subject & Grades Art, Art History & Design, grades 6-12 M.S.&H.S.
Extra Curricular at ISA Drama, scenery/stage design, mask-making, ISA public displays. Ned. Onderwijs Buitenland NOB Board
Education Academy of Fine Arts in Arnhem (NL)
MO Tekenen A(bachelor) &kandidaats(bachelor of art history)
MO Tekeken B(Masters)
Experience 12 years Lorentz College, Arnhem(NL)
14 years International School of Aruba
3 years Adult Education Vrije Akademie 'De Marienburg'
Special interests/hobbies Waterpaint & mixed media
Drama, Photography, Buddhism
Mask Collector
Favorite Place Europe: Barcelona
US: Santa Fe
South America: Merida (Venezuela)
Favorite Quation: "Life is creation, creation is art"
Personal Mission Statement My personal mission in life is to become a spiritual leader.

That's all I got.

[Poochy]

Anna...I didn't take it too seriously...saved it because I have been following Carlos severino Tromp...and I liked the Merian connections...fake diplomas.

added start date for new thread subject.

Mum - I just put Caps last post on the codetalker thread while you posted here  Well, at least we can discuss codetalkers over there w/out getting yelled at on this thread 

[Poochy]

CAPS posted "...The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near..."

What cleaning needed to be done? And where? The apts, the car, the rocks, the house?

Also, why would a cleaning person need a diploma???   

[WhiskeyGirl]

My comments in blue below -

FROM KERMIT (LAST FEW POSTS)

on: December 02, 2008, 11:13:54 PM  
Quote from: wreck on December 02, 2008, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: Blue Moon of KY on December 02, 2008, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

Could this have been canvas?  Did Kyle ever examine it close up?  Maybe with other pictures not published?

Kermit, did the crew of Persistence NOT retrieve anything from that cage before the aruban divers came in?  If not WHY?

Who on Persistence was trained to dive?  Was the ROV inside the cage/trap?  I noticed in many of these pictures, there are no bars/wire mesh in front of the pictures.  Why is that?  Were those pictures taken by someone/thing other than an ROV?  Maybe a nano-ROV?

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

What was the name of that boat?  Who does it belong to? 

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Did Kyle ever speak of what was retrieved?  Was it loaded into a container beneath the water's surface and removed?

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

IIRC, it was determined in advance that working alone, and without the cooperation of the ALE was not an option.  Did others stand back and wait?  What were they waiting for?  Why stand back?

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Opinion of Kyle.  I don't know "every word" so I'm not sure what I should conclude by this one fragment of a sentence.

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

I believe that Tim Miller wants to find every missing person, he is truly gifted from God in his ability to focus and organize people.  I think he may regret having mentioned the skull.  Could positive identification of Natalee come from an image of a skull alone?  Did it have a name etched on the surface?  Did it come with a drivers license?  $50 American?  Would anyone want to give Natalee's family false hope?  Who would that be?

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

Under what circumstances?  Why?  Did Kyle elaborate?

What if there was good reason to believe that wasn't Natalee?  Bringing the trap up over and over again might stall another search attempt.  There may be remains out there in some of the other targets.

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

And this is suspicious because?   Some may question judgement...  As a business person, I would imagine John Silvetti has to make a living too and Aruba may be a real good bargain right now... They may solve this case eventually...and get it right.  imho

Wow! Again - did Kyle tell this to you personally??

all part of the investigation.

Who's investigation?  ALE?  Someone else?  Julia's?

___________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:12:23 PM  

Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

APRIL 20, 2007, Superior Offshore and Company insiders sold over 10 million shares of common stock to the public, raising gross proceeds in excess of $152 million

LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST SUPERIOR OFFSHORE INTERNATIONAL – LOUIS E. SCHAEFER.  for violation of the federal securities laws.

Where is Schafer is suing anyone?  Who is he suing?  This looks like Superior Offshore and Louis E. Schaefer are being sued...

(snip for space by whiskeygirl)

July 4th weekend Kyle went to John Silvetti's home.
Then Kyle was off to Norway on the Ormage Project.
Then the "Dutch Agent" sent him to Egypt.

I'm not tracking with the group.  Who is the "Dutch Agent"?  Does she have a political affiliation on Aruba? 

If you do some research you find a lot on John Silvetti's businessess and merge with the Dutch

I did some research and found nothing...   

_________________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:02:28 PM  
Quote from: Bladerunner on December 02, 2008, 10:59:45 PM
Quote from: wreck on December 02, 2008, 10:53:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

or canvas...or tarp...or any number of things that are blue...(not the top, they already found that)

You see -- I thought OE was being forthright and well intentioned during that time (January) -- what happened to him by February???

Greed.

Are there wire transfers to support that greed?  Cashola?  Cars?  Lamborghini?  Prostitutes?  Condos?

Someone said "FOLLOW THE MONEY" - I don't see a trail, no trackers either...imho

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

Is it possible that Kyle was not 100% in the know?  Could he be speculating about the missing pieces?  ...imho


THEN

Kyle tried to "strike a deal" with producers.

The opening song for The Apprentice: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!

Maybe licensing fees are a normal part of operations?  It's how we all get along?  Not 100% in the know?  Maybe they didn't need to buy anything because they had no story?  Maybe the networks did not want to spread rumor and false information?

...imho

____________________________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:00:21 PM  
Quote from: Blue Moon of KY on December 02, 2008, 10:43:31 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:39:52 PM

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

Will Dr. Phil be asking for the results?  Were these things sent to the NFI?  Maybe they had a GOOD DNA sample for comparison?  Independent testing anywhere?  ...imho

I am so confused. She was in the ocean, she was in a pond, she was in a cemetery, and now she has been sold into slavery.  How would anyone know what is the truth at this point?

She was last seen with J2K and they lied.  ...imho

Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

Will it haunt you forever if it's not Natalee or part of her in that cage?  Will it haunt you enough to wonder "What if she's in one of those other targets?  If not Natalee, who?  Max DeVries?  ...imho

Maybe Max was a victim of human trafficking from Aruba too?

http://www.maxtothemillions.com/


Caps: emailed Dave her body was in the cemetery
        Dave told Caps, we have searched the cemetery
        Caps said she is in MOKO
        Caps said she is in Montajan
        Caps said she is in the cemetery
        Caps said she is cut up and spread around the island


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

"from the trap" or other places to?  Just like the diversion early in the investigation-to the courthouse, black helicopter, landfill.  ...imho

Kermit says: "A picture is worth a thousand words!"

A picture may generate a thousand words, and few if any may be true.  jmho

Are there any pictures that show the items moving from their original location at the ocean floor to the bags?  Perhaps those pictures contain missing clues/angles that reveal just what all those items are?

...imho